So are lead acid batteries - yet we have come up with ways to manage the cons while benefiting from the good.
Same with gasoline production... raw oil.. etc etc etc

All of these industrialized products have bad things behind their raw materials, manufacturing, distribution, and disposal.

The question is - can we manage them?

It's still better to work at economies of scale than it is to put massive CO polluters in every driveway. Electric generation and distribution scale far greater and cleaner than gasoline does.

Battery management problems are here to stay - even if no one ever bought another EV ever. So you can't act like shunning EVs is going to save anything.. that boogyman is already here and is in every person's pocket.

I pointed out about recycling batteries in a previous post:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-i-hate-evs-thread/page/13#post-6823540

No operational costs. It’s paid for.

By comparison my last ICE car ran 16c/mile plus the (quite expensive) service visits for oil changes, belts, plugs, etc.

EDIT: And that was before the gas was $4+! Stats here https://www.fuelly.com/driver/derekstuts

Hey we have that all settled as we call the answer Nevada! Yes people just visit it but nobody really wants to live there.

Better yet let's just blame it on the Soviets and dump ours with theirs! Yes they dump it at sea! They must have those 3 eyed Simpson fish there.

The Russian navy has traditionally dealt with virtually all of its radioactive wastes by disposal to sea. Many areas of the Barents, Kola and the Sea of Japan are heavily contaminated.

If you read his comments, you come to the conclusion he makes a lot of them.

You just need to drop more acid before reading his posts. They’re 100% coherent.

Only if you exist in idiotic binary worlds where something is 'all good' or 'all bad'. Where you dismiss the idea of something being 'better' even if it's not perfect in itself.

We already know what air pollution does... and that EVs don't have a fraction of it because even when including the power generation you have scale and so many inefficiencies removed compared to the ICE ecosystem

Can we just drive them because we like them better, though?

He's got a Porsche man. Even the inexpensive Porsche's (all above my pay grade) are expensive. Porsche could probably sell the Taycan cheaper, but why would they when most of their offerings are well above $100K? You should look at it compared to a Panarama.

I'm just curious...do you have a cellphone? Tablet? Laptop?

I’m getting more of a stone tablet vibe.

I do, and don't apologize for it. Worth pointing out that all of us have some level of privilege, being a part of this hobby where boxes of lights that only play one game cost 10K+.

Do you get what 'scale' means?

Sorry that was a rhetorical question. There's probably no need to answer. lol

No. Did you not comprehend the passage you quoted?

It wouldn't appear so. lol

Lol nevermind, least I have stones not like some denial [removed] in here.

Yes. There are literally billions of cellphones and other mobile devices running on these "horrible" lithium batteries. Way more than EVs, at this point in time.

So spare me the faux outrage.

You missed my point that not everyone in EVs is doing it to save the world. Some of us just like them better and enjoy the improved performance, reliability and lower cost to run.

Now make every cellphone a car. Then add that on top.

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There are far more cellphones (and tablets, and laptops) in the world than cars of any kind.

7.26B mobile phones in the world.
1.4B cars (of all types) in the world.
Under 1% of cars are EVs.

So you'd be better served directing your lithium outrage elsewhere.

How much bigger is a car battery than a cell phone battery?. Try use your brain to think instead of using it to store propaganda and garbage without thinking about it..

No wonder the world is in such a state, when stuff like you posted there is the banal standard of 'thinking' that so many obviously employ.

The future is not going to be for everyone. They sure got that bit right.

You shouldn't. I was just pointing out the dumb cost per dollar calculation that I qouted of a car that's going to be over $100K whether ICE or EV.

And you are now saying an EV uses less lithium than a cell phone or laptop? Are you freaking serious? Maybe some of the free weed samples while charging for free?

tezla's first sports car contained laptop batteries how many you may ask?

Tesla refers to the Roadster's battery pack as the Energy Storage System or ESS. The 450 kg (992 lb) ESS contains 6,831 lithium ion cells arranged into 11 "sheets" connected in series; each sheet contains 9 "bricks" connected in series; each "brick" contains 69 cells connected in parallel (11S 9S 69P).

tesla sport (resized).jpg

edit

I bought a truck for $35,000 drove it for 212,900 miles sold it for $5,000 therefore $30,000/212,900 so it cost me about $.14 per mile.
repairs 2 12Volt batteries, 2 downstream O2 sensors, 2 sets of front brakes (pads and rotors) 1 set rears brakes (drums, shoes, spring kit). Note I did the work myself. About 30 oil changes, 2 transmission fluid/filter service. about $1,400. less than a penny per mile (.00657)

I think depreciation should be considered an operational cost, same for leasing you are paying for the use of the car.

I had totally forgotten about that conversion van I owned for a while. Those captain chairs were sweet and comfy.

Anyway, I bought it used for $5500.00, drove it a total of 140,000 miles, then cash for clunkered it for $5500.00 when I bought Mom her new Aveo in 2008.

Between repairs and oil changes I think I had around $2500.00 at the most in upkeep during the time I had it.

Not going to lie, that 350 motor was awesome! but it only got 10mpg, and it did not run well on regular gas.

The Yukon I have now is very awesome! Best I can tell I get around 20mpg, it runs fine on cheap gas, and it has plenty of room for coolers and fishing rods and luggage when I go on vacation, and plenty of power to pull the boat also.

I was going to vacation more this year, I thought high gas prices would thin traffic, but after going to south Florida fishing a few weeks ago and traffic was worse than ever, hell no, I am not planning any more vacations anytime soon.

I hate the high gas prices, but if at least the prices could have thinned traffic, I would have been happy.

I guess traffic will always be bad no matter what happens now, with more and more people getting EV's.

There is a airport for small planes about 5 miles away. Maybe I need to learn to fly one of those, and buy one for future vacations. I think I could take the seats out and have room for coolers and fishing rods and luggage.

Interesting, the car kept reigniting
https://www.kcra.com/article/watch-sacramento-firefighters-fight-first-tesla-fire-kept-reigniting/40266219#

$27k now gets you in the door with a Bolt EV after the recent price decrease. $42k is for a Lightining Pro that has a 230 mile range and a bare number of options. For around $32k you can now buy a loaded Bolt EUV with powered leather seats that are heated / cooled, heated rear seats, a Bose sound system, dual panoramic sunroof, heated leather steering wheel, adaptative cruise control, and wireless Apple / Android auto with wireless charging.

If you want similar features in the F150 Lightning you are going to have to pay $67k+ for the Lariat trim. The F150 Lighting is no doubt cooler IMO but it's also much more expensive at the base price and especially once you start adding options.

The Gift that keeps on giving...The shorted battery pack keeps generating heat and gasses. Thermal runaway heat will ignite the gas until there is nothing left to burn. A mini Chernobyl, but not as deadly.

4500 gallons of water needed to put out the fire...in a state the has/had water use restrictions, not good

I wonder if it is made for EVs ?

blinker (resized).jpg

I saw on the Porsche website: Toucan Turbo S from $187,400 OK fine, nice car, great 0-60 times with launch control.

But how does one turbocharge an EV when it has no exhaust system? Does it come with side pipes?

This is a subject of great consternation in the Porsche community...it obviously has no turbocharger so most of us hate that nomenclature.
They decided to just apply it to their fastest model.

BTW mine is the slowest base model.

Toco-toucan (resized).jpg

Extinguishing EV fires is most definitely a problem that hasn't been fully solved. I've read about a few of these.

Fortunately it doesn't happen with every crash or even most crashes.

It's just that most of that extra stuff I don't really care about. I have heated seats and a sunroof now. I really don't use them. I would use the faster charge rate and that makes the slightly lower range easier to deal with. I would use the truck bed and towing ability. The Lightning also qualifies for the $7,500 tax credit, so not as big of a price diff as you think for the features I care about.

The 50kW charge rate is the main thing holding me back from buying one for my daughter. Living in my home, I can deal with the charge rate, other than out of town trips. Living in an apartment, not knowing how convenient charging is going to be for her, it's a gamble.

The $7,500 tax credit for Lighting orders is sadly long gone (unless you preordered early, wish I did!) as it's capped at the first 200,000 EV vehicles sold by a manufacturer. Ford has been selling the Mach E Mustang like crazy and already has over 200,000 Lighting orders. Only a portion of original Lighting orders will qualify for the tax rebate. From what I read Ford will hit the 200,000 EV tax credit cap this year and already has 3 years worth of Lighting orders.

Yeah I definitely wouldn't rely on public fast charging alone for an EV. The ability to charge at home seems like a must.

I had a brief conversation with a new Mach-E owner a few days ago. Guy was pretty cool, he said he traded in a giant diesel truck for it!

He told me the front trunk has drains so it can be used as cooler, which is kinda fun.

I believe there is talk of raising those caps and even the amount of the credit, but no guarantees. If the Bolt works for you, and you need something now, then by all means do it. If the 300 mile range $30K Equinox EV with the Ultium tech was available now, I'd be a buyer for sure. It's a real SUV and addresses all my concerns. Can I wait a year? Yeah...

So can we all agree that the demand for EVs is a very real thing, and the public wants them? And therefore, we need to invest in the infrastructure to prepare for it now? Whether you like them or not, they are clearly where America is going.

The USA is going to have to eat a bit of crow and play catch-up to the massive infrastructure investments China has been making, but it's never too late. Here's to hoping y'all invest in some public train solutions simultaneously instead of just banking on bigtech to save you.

love to betatest my deadly transportation systems on the open road where only a few other randos will die because of it. Thankfully, we shut off the autopilot a second before impact to evade all liability. S M A R T

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more here, and many other places https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40260652/teslas-autopilot-nhtsa-investigation-recall-possible/