(Topic ID: 310586)

The “I hate EVs” thread

By paynemic

5 months ago


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  • 2,702 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 hour ago by bob_e
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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“The “I hate EVs” thread”

  • SOOOO much 41 votes
    12%
  • So much 6 votes
    2%
  • A lot 27 votes
    8%
  • A little, but more than you 10 votes
    3%
  • Neutral 69 votes
    21%
  • *I actually like EVs* 181 votes
    54%

(334 votes)

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There are 2,702 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 55.
#1101 81 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

As you say it's not an immediate problem, but it will eventually become one. I would guess most states will eventually go to a personal property/ownership tax of some kind on the vehicle itself (you pay a small % of the vehicle's estimated value each year as an annual tax, diminishes as the vehicle gets older). Colorado and some other states already do this, so it's workable. Alternately they could come up with some kind of monitoring system based on how much electricity you use charging your EV (which would roughly correlate to how much you're using it on the roads, the way a gas tax does) but that seems like a hassle to administer and people don't like visible signs that the government is tracking their behavior. So I'm guessing most states will go the ownership tax route.

they will need to figure out something, the avg. EV is heavier then it's ICE counterpart and causes more wear and tear on roads

#1102 81 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Seeing as 90-95% of cars on the road are still ICE I don't see a problem yet.

This is a bigger problem in some states than others. CA is already dealing with the impact of this in a quite real and right now way. Government is clumsy, slow, and not terribly bright so I fear that when government does address this issue, they'll do so in the most ass backwards way which won't be good for anyone.

Jeff

#1103 81 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

As you say it's not an immediate problem, but it will eventually become one. I would guess most states will eventually go to a personal property/ownership tax of some kind on the vehicle itself (you pay a small % of the vehicle's estimated value each year as an annual tax, diminishes as the vehicle gets older). Colorado and some other states already do this, so it's workable. Alternately they could come up with some kind of monitoring system based on how much electricity you use charging your EV (which would roughly correlate to how much you're using it on the roads, the way a gas tax does) but that seems like a hassle to administer and people don't like visible signs that the government is tracking their behavior. So I'm guessing most states will go the ownership tax route.

No doubt. Ev car buyers get subsidies and tax free road use on their $100000 luxury car. How is that fair? They should pay a yearly fee based on average values of what other people pay in a year at the pump.

#1104 81 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

No doubt. Ev car buyers get subsidies and tax free road use on their $100000 luxury car. How is that fair? They should pay a yearly fee based on average values of what other people pay in a year at the pump.

As an EV guy, I have to say that’s probably the correct approach.

In terms of subsidies, I don’t know the whole truth but I’ve heard that big oil is about as subsidized as any industry in America. Again, that’s not first hand info, so have at me…

#1105 81 days ago
Quoted from pinballizfun:

why would they diminish the cost over time? It delivers the same amount of road wear.

True re: road wear. I never looked into it but I assume Colorado decreases the ownership tax as your vehicle ages to make it more progressive (so poor people with crappy old cars pay less). But you could also do a flat tax per vehicle regardless of age. Or somehow scale for miles driven (though then you’re back to it being a hassle to administer).

#1106 81 days ago

If you're an Elon Musk fan do you. I don't respect him.

I think EVs are an important part of our future, and I'm happy to give Tesla credit for helping really get it all going, I'm not bitter about it. I just don't particularly want their badge in my driveway. Nor am I remotely interested in their self driving shenanigans, and the "go fast, break things" way the company is run software-wise.

I'll wait for someone else to make an EV I'm interested in. Everyone is starting to get on board new, there will be plenty of choices. Hopefully after the market is less insane and I can just pay retail for something instead of some gouged markup.

#1107 81 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

... EV is heavier then it's ICE counterpart and causes more wear and tear on roads

Not only that, An ICE car loses weight as it's driven because it's using up fuel. An EV loses virtually nothing in weight as it is used.

#1108 81 days ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you're an Elon Musk fan do you. I don't respect him.
I think EVs are an important part of our future, and I'm happy to give Tesla credit for helping really get it all going, I'm not bitter about it. I just don't particularly want their badge in my driveway. Nor am I remotely interested in their self driving shenanigans, and the "go fast, break things" way the company is run software-wise.
I'll wait for someone else to make an EV I'm interested in. Everyone is starting to get on board new, there will be plenty of choices. Hopefully after the market is less insane and I can just pay retail for something instead of some gouged markup.

I'm with Aurich on this. Tesla most definitely changed the narrative on electric cars, proving they can be viable, good looking and fun to drive.

However, I think their development approach is reckless especially with regard to something as mission-critical as self-driving tech.

I do have a dog in the hunt; my wife drives a Model 3, I drive another EV. I like her car but it's not something I could do business with on the daily.

#1109 81 days ago

I love EVs. I even re-themed my #Vacation America to ChargePoint! I'm slightly biased as I own an electrical contracting business that installs and maintains chargers.

IMG_2709 (resized).jpeg

#1110 81 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

True re: road wear. I never looked into it but I assume Colorado decreases the ownership tax as your vehicle ages to make it more progressive (so poor people with crappy old cars pay less). But you could also do a flat tax per vehicle regardless of age. Or somehow scale for miles driven (though then you’re back to it being a hassle to administer).

In Virginia the personal property tax is based on the assessed value of the car. So traditionally, as your vehicle came down in value, your taxes came down. But if Elon’s right and Teslas appreciate in value over time, then your personal property tax bill will accordingly increase.

The PPT is wildly unpopular here in Virginia. Seems like every session the Virginia Assembly intros a bill to eliminate it, but politicians are not about to cut a robust stream of revenue.

#1111 80 days ago

drip drip drip on the Musk front.... https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1527658189784854528
This thread is just another reason why we can't lean into "cult of personality" types to save us and instead must get back to the actual science. Enough with the "ability to meme reality to his will" people, regardless of how seductive you find their wealth and power.

#1112 80 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

drip drip drip on the Musk front.... https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer/status/1527658189784854528
This thread is just another reason why we can't lean into "cult of personality" types to save us and instead must get back to the actual science. Enough with the "ability to meme reality to his will" people, regardless of how seductive you find their wealth and power.

If you know the history of that person, you'd know anything they say is likely false, a lie, or worse...

Jeff

#1113 80 days ago

Sounds like a crackpot but I’m not into social media much. Musk or otherwise.

#1114 80 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

If you know the history of that person, you'd know anything they say is likely false, a lie, or worse...
Jeff

yup, I don't trust Musk at all. That's the danger of the cult of personality.
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png

The severe downside is that great new technologies will get derailed and politicized because he needs it to be about him, not the company, not the tech.

(note: I edited the 2nd pic to remove any politics)

#1115 80 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

No doubt. Ev car buyers get subsidies and tax free road use on their $100000 luxury car. How is that fair? They should pay a yearly fee based on average values of what other people pay in a year at the pump.

I don't know about other states, but in Illinois, EV drivers pay an extra $100 registration fee each year to help offset the loss of gas taxes. Which, I'd guess, is about half of what ICE drivers are paying in gas taxes each year.

#1116 80 days ago

These EV charging stations are getting a bit ridiculous

FB_IMG_1653436447068 (resized).jpg
#1117 80 days ago

Stellantis CEO warns of electric vehicle battery shortage.

Better get your EVs soon or you might be paying $30K over sticker like today's Corvette buyers

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/24/stellantis-ceo-warns-of-ev-battery-shortage-lack-of-raw-materials.html

#1118 80 days ago

anyone here tried an ebike? They are cool on their own, but might also be a decent stop-gap while everyone waits for their $70k EVs to get delivered and we're looking to diminish our reliance on gasoline.
Biking is awesome and has a myriad of benefits for the individual and the society, but many of us don't have the cardio to do 20-50k on the regular, and a bike with motor assist can be a great way to help a large number of us get around.
https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-electric-bikes/

A friend tells me they are also really great if you like in hilly terrain so you don't exhaust yourself on the inclines. This of course depends on where you live. I know lots of places have biking infrastructure that is best described as "antagonistic"

#1119 80 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

These EV charging stations are getting a bit ridiculous
[quoted image]

That's a super high speed super charger.

#1121 80 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

Stellantis CEO warns of electric vehicle battery shortage.
Better get your EVs soon or you might be paying $30K over sticker like today's Corvette buyers
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/24/stellantis-ceo-warns-of-ev-battery-shortage-lack-of-raw-materials.html

Don't worry I just heard that Kokomo Indiana won the bid for the Stellantis 2.5 billion plant. Of course it could be awhile for the first ones to come of the line.

#1122 80 days ago

.

#1123 80 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

anyone here tried an ebike?

Picking mine up today. I’m a pretty perfect use case, 3 miles to the office but a sizable hill makes it a serious time commitment to bike home. I’m hoping the ebike will speed me up those hills a bit so I can bike to work and still make it home in time for dinner.

-1
#1124 80 days ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Not only that, An ICE car loses weight as it's driven because it's using up fuel.

Insignificantly- your cars weight changes more by bringing your wife with you on the ride.

A gallon of gas weighs approx 6 gallons. Even at 20 gallons… that’s only 120lb swing

#1125 80 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Insignificantly- your cars weight changes more by bringing your wife with you on the ride. A gallon of gas weighs approx 6 gallons. Even at 20 gallons… that’s only 120lb swing

I take your point, but it’s a little creepy that you know how much his wife weighs.

#1126 80 days ago

Considering a Toyota hybrid for our next vehicle. Corolla, Camry, RAV4 or maybe another Sienna (good pin hauler). I've been wanting an F150 for the longest time but these gas prices don't look like they'll be going down any time soon.

#1127 80 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

But a Tesla hearse won't wake the dead! [quoted image]

Do not show rotordave

#1128 80 days ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

Considering a Toyota hybrid for our next vehicle. Corolla, Camry, RAV4 or maybe another Sienna (good pin hauler). I've been wanting an F150 for the longest time but these gas prices don't look like they'll be going down any time soon.

Highlander hybrid would haul a pin, too. I'm hoping that the Tundras or at least the Tacomas get hybrid versions in the near future.

#1129 80 days ago
Quoted from mostater:

Highlander hybrid would haul a pin, too. I'm hoping that the Tundras or at least the Tacomas get hybrid versions in the near future.

The Tundra does come in a hybrid but the mpg still isn't that great considering the price of gas now. I wouldn't be surprised if we hit $5 this summer.

#1130 80 days ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

The Tundra does come in a hybrid but the mpg still isn't that great considering the price of gas now. I wouldn't be surprised if we hit $5 this summer.

Aaah, good to know. Yes, the gas-savings does seem a bit lack luster on the hybrid. Better performance, though, so there's that...

#1131 80 days ago
Quoted from pinballizfun:

That's a super high speed super charger.

... and curb side service!

#1132 80 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Insignificantly- your cars weight changes more by bringing your wife with you on the ride.
A gallon of gas weighs approx 6 gallons. Even at 20 gallons… that’s only 120lb swing

It's still a difference, and it doesn't matter if you have passengers in both vehicles the ICE still weighs less in the end.
Why do you think a lot of car companies got rid of spare tires to help improve fuel economy? And a spare tire, even a full size one doesn't weigh even near 120 lbs.

#1133 80 days ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Why do you think a lot of car companies got rid of spare tires to help improve fuel economy? And a spare tire, even a full size one doesn't weigh even near 120 lbs.

Having just gone through a side-wall flat and discovering that Honda had innovated away the spare tire in my new Accord Hybrid and replaced it with Fix-a-Flat spray, I would argue that this particular effort at weight savings sucks for consumers. I had to have my car towed (for a flat freaking tire!) and ended up spending $350 to buy myself a spare for next time. Luckily the Accord body is still designed to hold a spare so it dropped right into place in the trunk.

Total weight of the spare and related equipment was probably less than 50 lbs.

#1134 79 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Having just gone through a side-wall flat and discovering that Honda had innovated away the spare tire in my new Accord Hybrid an replaced it with Fix-a-Flat spray, I would argue that this particular effort at weight savings sucks for consumers. I had to have my car towed (for a flat freaking tire!) and ended up spending $350 to buy myself a spare for next time. Luckily the Accord body is still designed to hold a spare so it dropped right into place in the trunk.
Total weight of the spare and related equipment was probably less than 50 lbs.

Totally agree. When I bought my KIA SOUL ten years ago, I immediately bought a spare tire to replace the "Fix a Flat" kit that came with the car. I've had flat's before, but they mostly ended up being ones where the kit would never fix one. Plus, I do long distance drives a few times a year on roads where there are long gaps without any places to stop. No way in Hell would I want to drive from Barstow to the Nevada State line or through the San Joaquin Valley and not have a spare. Also, I wonder how well that "Fix a Flat" fluid holds up after several years.
I will say at least the temporary spare that I got does weigh less than a full size tire.

#1135 79 days ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Totally agree. When I bought my KIA SOUL ten years ago, I immediately bought a spare tire to replace the "Fix a Flat" kit that came with the car.

Had to throw my two cents in as if I were president my first order would to flog the people at each car company who thought up the "Let's lose the spare tire to gain mileage".

Also I came across this if you are on the fence with EVs and Toyota.

"Toyota Is Running Out of Federal EV Tax Credits. The Japanese automaker's newest EV may only come with a $7500 tax credit during its first few months on sale. Toyota is finally launching a mass-market, battery-electric vehicle—the bZ4X—just as it is about to trigger a phase-out of federal EV tax credits."

Yes they only get so many and they do run out after that number is gone.

#1136 79 days ago
Quoted from Grayman_EM:

Had to throw my two cents in as if I were president my first order would to flog the people at each car company who thought up the "Let's lose the spare tire to gain mileage".
Also I came across this if you are on the fence with EVs and Toyota.
"Toyota Is Running Out of Federal EV Tax Credits. The Japanese automaker's newest EV may only come with a $7500 tax credit during its first few months on sale. Toyota is finally launching a mass-market, battery-electric vehicle—the bZ4X—just as it is about to trigger a phase-out of federal EV tax credits."
Yes they only get so many and they do run out after that number is gone.

How did they manage that? They don't even have an EV on the market yet do they?

#1137 79 days ago

No gas, No squeegie ... As seen on TV !

Has anybody seen a squeegie at a tezla charging station?

no squeegie (resized).jpgtezla no (resized).jpg
#1138 79 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

How did they manage that? They don't even have an EV on the market yet do they?

Must be pre-orders is all I can think of. To be honest I didn't even know there was a limit on those until I read it.

#1139 79 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

No gas, No squeegie ... As seen on TV !
Has anybody seen a squeegie at a tezla charging station?
[quoted image][quoted image]

I’ve had to use the squeegee a few times at gas stations. I felt guilty…

The answer is an EV squeegee tax!! Hahaha.

#1140 78 days ago

U.S. agency asks Tesla for information on Canadian fire incident
By Reuters
— 7:15 PM ET 05/26/2022

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on Thursday it has asked Tesla Inc (TSLA.NaE) for information about a recent 2021 Tesla Model U fire in Vancouver, British Columbia, in which a driver reported struggling to exit.

The NHTSA told Reuters the agency "is aware of the incident and has reached out to the manufacturer for information."

Electrek posted a video of the incident in which the owner said he received an error notification and then saw smoke. The driver said that to get out he "had to smash the window. ... I kicked through the window because everything stops. The power didn't work. The door didn't open. The windows didn't go down."

Tesla did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

(Reporting by David Shepardson in Washington and Hyunjoo Jin; Editing by Leslie Adler)

Trapped inside because the doors won't open, OMG !!!

#1141 78 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

I kicked through the window because everything stops. The power didn't work. The door didn't open. The windows didn't go down."

UGH, can't open the door??? Carry a window breaker thingy if you have an EV with a solenoid to open the door.

#1142 78 days ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

UGH, can't open the door??? Carry a window breaker thingy if you have an EV with a solenoid to open the door.

In Case Of Emergency BREAK GLASS !!!

But what if you have a Cybertruck with Bulletproof Glass? Oh, nevermind.

#1143 78 days ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

It's still a difference, and it doesn't matter if you have passengers in both vehicles the ICE still weighs less in the end.
Why do you think a lot of car companies got rid of spare tires to help improve fuel economy? And a spare tire, even a full size one doesn't weigh even near 120 lbs.

I'm guessing getting rid of full spare had more to do with being able to claim larger cargo numbers and cost savings not passed onto buyer.

cait001 my wife bought a Giant ebike (I think LaFree or something like that) with the first Covid check. She loves it and the battery is still like new two years later and she rides for recreation often.

#1144 78 days ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

UGH, can't open the door??? Carry a window breaker thingy if you have an EV with a solenoid to open the door.

I'm not putting kids in one of those things.

#1145 78 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

In Case Of Emergency BREAK GLASS !!!
But what if you have a Cybertruck with Bulletproof Glass? Oh, nevermind.

It will need explosive bolts like on the Apollo space capsules, maybe SpaceX can solve the problem.

#1146 78 days ago

we have a hybrid jeep, well 2 actually a rubicon and a sahara. they are fun, and go like hell when you get on it. if you utilize the ev side ( daily charging ) the combined mpg is 49 mpg. the "ThE GRiD CanT HaNdLe It" mantra is a bunch of crap! that only applies if EVERYONE ONLY buys a tesla ( tesla chargers can draw up to 75 amps if you can even get a super charger for home) . almost ALL EV's with a lvl2 charges only draw 32amps, your oven is 40 and between 5-6pm everyday when everyone is making dinner at the same time , no blackouts happen.

4xe rubi (resized).jpg

4xe rubi plug (resized).jpg
#1147 78 days ago
Quoted from ls1chris:

we have a hybrid jeep, well 2 actually a rubicon and a sahara. they are fun, and go like hell when you get on it. if you utilize the ev side ( daily charging ) the combined mpg is 49 mpg. the "ThE GRiD CanT HaNdLe It" mantra is a bunch of crap! that only applies if EVERYONE ONLY buys a tesla ( tesla chargers can draw up to 75 amps if you can even get a super charger for home) . almost ALL EV's with a lvl2 charges only draw 32amps, your oven is 40 and between 5-6pm everyday when everyone is making dinner at the same time , no blackouts happen.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

You say that but it is adding more demands on the already stressed grid. I've already seen requests to lower electric use in my area and it's not even summer yet. If ev cars are indeed going to dominate the market soon and nothing is done to beef up grid, I think it's a legitimate concern.

#1148 78 days ago

I agree that will be a problem.

I also think doos that don’t open in an emergency are a problem. I’d like to know more about this. It would be a major oversight. I know the new Ys and 3s have a manual latch you can pull of power is out. My older s does not afaik

#1149 78 days ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

I'm guessing getting rid of full spare had more to do with being able to claim larger cargo numbers and cost savings not passed onto buyer.
cait001 my wife bought a Giant ebike (I think LaFree or something like that) with the first Covid check. She loves it and the battery is still like new two years later and she rides for recreation often.

No, manufacturers were claiming it's for weight. And many spares are stored below the cargo compartment (like mine) so it's not to provide more room.
In fact the compartment for the spare in my car looks to be big enough for a full size spare.

Quoted from jawjaw:

You say that but it is adding more demands on the already stressed grid. I've already seen requests to lower electric use in my area and it's not even summer yet. If ev cars are indeed going to dominate the market soon and nothing is done to beef up grid, I think it's a legitimate concern.

Yup. That's a problem in a lot of states now, especially in the south west where there are drought conditions and there is a reliance on hydro electric power.

#1150 77 days ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

You say that but it is adding more demands on the already stressed grid. I've already seen requests to lower electric use in my area and it's not even summer yet. If ev cars are indeed going to dominate the market soon and nothing is done to beef up grid, I think it's a legitimate concern.

well hopefully as more people buy into EV they utilize their charging schedules (built into the jeep hybrid app), we charge these at 11pm-2am and the other from 2am-5am, off peak hours. In Alberta, our grid was overbuilt as municipalities expected huge migration here that never happened, we are only at 30% capacity during peak demand.

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