(Topic ID: 310586)

The “I hate EVs” thread

By paynemic

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 9,881 posts
  • 270 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 hours ago by Fytr
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“The “I hate EVs” thread”

  • SOOOO much 65 votes
    13%
  • So much 8 votes
    2%
  • A lot 33 votes
    7%
  • A little, but more than you 17 votes
    3%
  • Neutral 95 votes
    20%
  • *I actually like EVs* 269 votes
    55%

(487 votes)

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There are 9,885 posts in this topic. You are on page 135 of 198.
#6701 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Had a friend that bought a F150 the first year they went to aluminum panels. Wasn't long before he was in an accident and regretted his decision. I'm sure it is getting better, but I know there are still limited shops that do aluminum work. I unfortunately had a vehicle totaled recently (not my fault - my truck was rear ended causing frame damage), and while I was at a national collision repair chain with probably 20+ locations here in DFW, I heard the receptionist tell a caller that only one of their locations in Fort Worth did aluminum repairs.

I worked for a Ford dealer for 13 years. Our body shop requires at least 25% of their repair techs be certified in aluminum work. All of the tech schools now focus on aluminum work in their curriculum too. It's commonplace now.

#6702 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Had a friend that bought a F150 the first year they went to aluminum panels. Wasn't long before he was in an accident and regretted his decision. I'm sure it is getting better, but I know there are still limited shops that do aluminum work. I unfortunately had a vehicle totaled recently (not my fault - my truck was rear ended causing frame damage), and while I was at a national collision repair chain with probably 20+ locations here in DFW, I heard the receptionist tell a caller that only one of their locations in Fort Worth did aluminum repairs.

Yup. Total PITA

#6703 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Here we go again with selective statistics. You did look at the source data (i.e. the German ADAC article), right?
If so, you would have seen the following ICE models had the same or fewer breakdowns per 1,000 than the Tesla 3s with 1.1 breakdowns in 2020 when comparing Middle class vehicles (somewhat ironically, they are all German):
- Audi A4 | 1.0
- BMW 3 Series | 0.8
- BMS X3 | 1.1
- Mercedes C-Class | 0.8
- Mercedes GLC | 1.1
Not sure how the data points to Tesla "crushing" ICE vehicles when it was equaled or bettered by over 20% of the other vehicles (the study included 23 total in the "Middle" class).
Conclusion? As a German auto buyer you could purchase 5 of the most popular German made ICE vehicles and have equal or better reliability than buying an American import Tesla 3 EV. Don't get me wrong, I want the entire world to purchase our exports, but the case the article you posted is trying to make just doesn't hold water.

so 80% of the vehicles did WORSE than tesla? I'm not seeing the source material...?

#6704 10 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I worked for a Ford dealer for 13 years. Our body shop requires at least 25% of their repair techs be certified in aluminum work. All of the tech schools now focus on aluminum work in their curriculum too. It's commonplace now.

More common yes, but still way more costly.

#6705 10 months ago

Got our EV in Feb, and since then our budget on gas has saved us already almost 1k. Good stuff. We have a large commute for work so the EV has been a blessing in just a few months.

#6706 10 months ago
Quoted from PanzerKraken:

Got our EV in Feb, and since then our budget on gas has saved us already almost 1k. Good stuff. We have a large commute for work so the EV has been a blessing in just a few months.

well sure...But it may burn down your home less frequently than an ICE vehicle and it may also be less prone to breaking down!!!

#6707 10 months ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

so 80% of the vehicles did WORSE than tesla? I'm not seeing the source material...?

My source material is following the source sited in the article (pretty straightforward with only two mouse clicks required).

Here is the link provided in the original Pinside Post: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-crushes-reliability-study/
If you read that article you will see their source (the one I used) is bolded in blue characters and links to this study: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-crushes-reliability-study/ (FYI, the site is in German, so if you can't read it then simply translate the page).

Regardless of the above, allow me to agree with you that 80% of the vehicles in the same class did worse than Tesla and rewrite the headline, "Audi, BMW, and Mercedes ICE vehicles along with Tesla Model 3 EV Crush the Majority of the Competition."

#6708 10 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I worked for a Ford dealer for 13 years. Our body shop requires at least 25% of their repair techs be certified in aluminum work. All of the tech schools now focus on aluminum work in their curriculum too. It's commonplace now.

Since when is 1 in 4 commonplace when 4 in 4 are trained to do steel/plastic work (my assumption)? I fully understand your dealership's advancement in this area, but I'm sure your owners have to balance certifications/training with demand while at the same time never wanting to turn a customer (i.e. revenue) away. Also, the key is you worked for a Ford dealer, not an independent. I'm sure Ford required in their dealership agreement for a portion of your techs to be certified.

BTW, the point is not that you can't get aluminum panels repaired, but that currently there aren't as many places to get it done, it will probably take longer, and it will certainly be more expensive to repair (especially if done by a dealership that typically has much higher overhead than an independent shop).

#6709 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

allow me to agree with you that 80% of the vehicles in the same class did worse than Tesla

Progress. Small...but progress.

#6710 10 months ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

well sure...But it may burn down your home less frequently than an ICE vehicle

You by far have the strangest case of pyrophobia Ive ever seen.

I'd post a link to support my claim but I havent been able to pay off the scientists yet to state your pinside name in the results.

#6711 10 months ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

You by far have the strangest case of pyrophobia Ive ever seen.
I'd post a link to support my claim but I havent been able to find data that agrees with my fragile worldview.

It is indeed a strange case of pyrophobia since I've been the one saying that the likelihood of ANY car fire in ANY type of vehicle is incredibly small.

#6712 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Since when is 1 in 4 commonplace when 4 in 4 are trained to do steel/plastic work (my assumption)? I fully understand your dealership's advancement in this area, but I'm sure your owners have to balance certifications/training with demand while at the same time never wanting to turn a customer (i.e. revenue) away. Also, the key is you worked for a Ford dealer, not an independent. I'm sure Ford required in their dealership agreement for a portion of your techs to be certified.
BTW, the point is not that you can't get aluminum panels repaired, but that currently there aren't as many places to get it done, it will probably take longer, and it will certainly be more expensive to repair (especially if done by a dealership that typically has much higher overhead than an independent shop).

They're all trained on it, and all can complete the repairs. Only 25% need to be "certified" in order for the dealer franchise agreement to be valid.

Cost is not really that different. Much more "glue-in" going on these days, rather than "weld-in," even with steel. Most of the Al repairs are insurance claims, so the customer is just paying deductible. (and of course higher premiums later).

#6713 10 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

But is a trend often attributed with 'new companies' instead of companies that have a long history of learning how to engineer their products. Everyone makes choices in their designs, and when it comes to ownership, an important element to understand. And why I won't buy BMW

Honda had a large rear panel on the 1st gen Ridgeline

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#6714 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I owned a BMW 535i for about 5 years and traded it in around 2018 or so (purchased it used with about 35K on it and drove over 100K when I had it). What I will say is that it was one of my favorite vehicles I ever owned.

Sure, they are amazing cars to experience. But when it comes to their choices in engineering and reliability in the last decade+... I'm a hard pass. Complexity, lack of servicability, and plastic usage are through the roof.

#6715 10 months ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Here we go again with selective statistics. You did look at the source data (i.e. the German ADAC article), right?
If so, you would have seen the following ICE models had the same or fewer breakdowns per 1,000 than the Tesla 3s with 1.1 breakdowns in 2020 when comparing Middle class vehicles (somewhat ironically, they are all German):
- Audi A4 | 1.0
- BMW 3 Series | 0.8
- BMS X3 | 1.1
- Mercedes C-Class | 0.8
- Mercedes GLC | 1.1
Not sure how the data points to Tesla "crushing" ICE vehicles when it was equaled or bettered by over 20% of the other vehicles (the study included 23 total in the "Middle" class).
Conclusion? As a German auto buyer you could purchase 5 of the most popular German made ICE vehicles and have equal or better reliability than buying an American import Tesla 3 EV. Don't get me wrong, I want the entire world to purchase our exports, but the case the article you posted is trying to make just doesn't hold water.

A buddy in Germany just ordered a new A6 to replace his five year old one. Twelve month lead time for vehicles with the twin turbo six zylinder. Fortunately, I only had to wait a few months for mine. What a machine.....

20230519_180357 (resized).jpg20230519_180357 (resized).jpg20230528_135842 (resized).jpg20230528_135842 (resized).jpg
#6716 10 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

A buddy in Germany just ordered a new A6 to replace his five year old one. Twelve month lead time for vehicles with the twin turbo six zylinder. Fortunately, I only had to wait a few months for mine. What a machine.....[quoted image][quoted image]

Well at least the MAF is gonna be easy to replace. It does look nice!

#6718 9 months ago

Honestly that looks terrifying! Gotta love the arms race of speed…

#6719 9 months ago
Quoted from paynemic:

Gotta love the arms race of speed…

Police usually have high performance patrol cars for high-speed chases. I wonder if they have plans to keep up with the 0-60 in 2sec with top speed of 200mph S Plaid.

They say 'you can't outrun the radio' but at that speed??

Reminds me of Richard Rawlings cannonball run story during the pandemic. They were so fast in the Audi A8 (with an extra gas tank in the trunk and disguised as a Ford Taurus unmarked car) that they would be at the next exit and leaving the state when the roadblock was being setup behind them.

EDIT - actual info:
In April 2020, an anonymous crew traveled from the Red Ball Garage on the east side of Manhattan to the Portofino Hotel in Redondo Beach, California—a total of 2,825.3 miles (4,546.9 km)—in 26 hours 38 minutes. The team averaged 106 miles per hour (171 km/h). The record was completed in a 2019 Audi A8L with additional fuel tanks in the rear storage.

In May 2020, Arne Toman, Doug Tabbutt, and spotter Dunadel Daryoush set the new cannonball record of 25 hours and 39 minutes in a modified 2016 Audi S6 disguised to look like a Ford Taurus police interceptor. Police-evasion modifications included brake light kill-switches, radar detectors, laser diffusers, CB-radio, and a roof-mounted thermal camera. Performance modifications included a trunk-mounted 67-gallon auxiliary fuel cell sourced from the car used in Toman and Tabbutt's 2019 cannonball run, modified turbochargers, an upgraded heat-exchanger, and custom ECU tuning that allowed for engine-mapping to be changed on-demand to suit either 91 or 93-octane fuel; allowing the car to generate an estimated 600 horsepower. The run achieved an overall average speed of 110 miles per hour (177 km/h) for the entire run, with average speeds upwards of 125 miles per hour (201 km/h) across some states, and which at no time exceeded 175 miles per hour (282 km/h).

#6720 9 months ago

uh oh...more terrible news for those scared of car fires AND electric cars...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/ford-lincoln-fire-recall/index.html

#6721 9 months ago

Starting to look for a new EV to replace our Honda Odyssey and supplement our 10-year-old Leaf. Need something that can carry at least one pinball machine and be "reasonably" priced.

Considering the 2024 Chevy Blazer. Any thoughts/insights?
Blazer EV (resized).jpgBlazer EV (resized).jpg

#6722 9 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Considering the 2024 Chevy Blazer. Any recommendations/thoughts?

That looks pretty slick! You can slide a pin in if the back door opening is 32 inches tall. (31 and 7/8ths works)

#6723 9 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Starting to look for a new EV to replace our Honda Odyssey and supplement our 10-year-old Leaf. Need something that can carry at least one pinball machine and be "reasonably" priced.
Considering the 2024 Chevy Blazer. Any recommendations/thoughts?[quoted image]

$60,000 for that one - maybe more

#6724 9 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

$60,000 for that one - maybe more

Probably go with an RS version as opposed to SS pictured and save a little. Still not cheap, but looks to qualify for federal $7,500 tax credit.

#6725 9 months ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

uh oh...more terrible news for those scared of car fires AND electric cars...
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/06/business/ford-lincoln-fire-recall/index.html

This recall has to do with the engine leaking oil/gasoline and possibly starting a fire.

#6726 9 months ago
Quoted from Apex:

This recall has to do with the engine leaking oil/gasoline and possibly starting a fire.

Bingo.

#6727 9 months ago

Got a more economical engine in my new car: v-6 with twin turbos. The turbos save gas!

I like to keep my cars for a long time, and I am concerned that EVs will have battery drain and eventual failure, forcing me to replace it

#6728 9 months ago

If anyone has a Ford Ecoboost or Mazda with the same engine; this is what it takes to replace a head gasket:

#6729 9 months ago
Quoted from Brainiac:

Got a more economical engine in my new car: v-6 with twin turbos. The turbos save gas!
I like to keep my cars for a long time, and I am concerned that EVs will have battery drain and eventual failure, forcing me to replace it

Hope its not an ecoboost. They suck. Well...blow

#6730 9 months ago
Quoted from coolwhs:

If anyone has a Ford Ecoboost or Mazda with the same engine; this is what it takes to replace a head gasket:

That's why you find a way to get them done under warranty.

#6731 9 months ago
Quoted from Brainiac:

I am concerned that EVs will have battery drain and eventual failure, forcing me to replace it

The good news is there’s plenty of data available already on EV battery lifecycle, degradation, and failure. Failure is rare but, like gas cars, a few lemons show up. Degradation is steepest for the first 15k miles (5 to 10%) then flattens for a very long time. Typically you’ll still have 85% of the original battery range at 200,000 miles.

#6732 9 months ago
Quoted from coolwhs:

If anyone has a Ford Ecoboost or Mazda with the same engine; this is what it takes to replace a head gasket:

Love the Car Wizard

#6733 9 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Considering the 2024 Chevy Blazer. Any thoughts/insights?

Get an Equinox EV. Much cheaper...

#6734 9 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Get an Equinox EV. Much cheaper...

Are they even available yet?

#6735 9 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Are they even available yet?

Fall 2023.

#6736 9 months ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Just like VHS won in the 80's, looks like Tesla may win the charger standard now. Ford is adopting the Tesla connector in 2025+ EV's.
https://electricautonomy.ca/2023/05/26/tesla-ford-supercharger-public-charging/
Tesla and Ford may be retail competitors, but now they are charging partners — with a new Supercharger deal and Ford’s move to adopt Tesla’s charging port in all new EVs starting in 2025
Tesla is opening its Supercharger network to Ford EV drivers in Canada and the U.S. in spring 2024; while Ford will phase out Combined Charging System ports on its vehicles in favour of Tesla’s North American Charging Standard (NACS) port, starting in 2025.
These announcements — unveiled jointly in a Twitter Live discussion yesterday by Telsa CEO Elon Musk and Ford CEO Jim Farley — are a strong signal from the two American automakers that charging access is a critical component of selling EVs.
Initially, Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning and E-Transit owners will have access to Tesla’s over 12,000-strong Supercharger network. Future Ford drivers with the NACS ports on their vehicles will follow.
“Tesla has led the industry in creating a large, reliable and efficient charging system and we are pleased to be able to join forces in a way that benefits customers and overall EV adoption,” said Marin Gjaja, chief customer officer for the Ford Model e in a press release.
“The Tesla Supercharger network has excellent reliability and the NACS plug is smaller and lighter. Overall, this provides a superior experience for customers.”
The announcement is also the first indication from Tesla that it will open up its Supercharger network to non-Tesla vehicles in Canada. Already non-Tesla drivers in the U.S. are able to access some Tesla Superchargers using an adapter at the station.
“We don’t want the Tesla Supercharger network to be a walled garden,” said Musk.
“It is our intent to do everything possible to support Ford and have Ford be on an equal footing at Tesla Superchargers.”
BlueOval charging network
Currently, Ford EV drivers have access to the automaker’s BlueOval charging network.
The BlueOval charging network is “the largest public charging network in North America offered by automotive manufacturers,” claims Ford.
It’s a pay-as-you-go network spanning North America. BlueOval has over 84,000 chargers and partners including ChargePoint, FLO, Shell ReCharge, SemaCharge Network and Electric Circuit.
Adding Tesla’s Supercharger network boosts that number to nearly 100,000 chargers (22,000 fast chargers). And Ford dealerships are also putting a combined 1,800 public fast-chargers online by 2024.
“Mustang Mach-E, F-150 Lightning and E-Transit customers will be able to access the Superchargers via an adapter and software integration along with activation and payment via FordPass or Ford Pro Intelligence,” reads Ford’s explanation of how the integration will work.
Ford is calling all of its EVs made in or after 2025 its “next generation” EVs. Tesla, in its recent Investor Day presentation pegs Supercharger reliability at 99.95 per cent.
“This is great news for our customers who will have unprecedented access to the largest network of fast-chargers in the U.S. and Canada with 12,000+ Tesla Superchargers plus 10,000+ fast-chargers already in the BlueOval Charge Network,” said Farley.

And now GM has joined Ford in adopting the Tesla charging standard. That pretty much seals it - it will be the NACS from here out.

I might actually be able to consider purchasing a Ford or GM EV now. Road trips using the Tesla network are a little more possible.

#6737 9 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Get an Equinox EV. Much cheaper...

I liked my 2011 Equinox, but the last gen appeared to have a smaller back door. (I look for 31 and 7/8 inches tall back door to fit a pin.)

I bet they are moving toward more compact size to make the EV more efficient.

#6738 9 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Get an Equinox EV. Much cheaper...

I plan to check it out as well.

Quoted from Neal_W:

I liked my 2011 Equinox, but the last gen appeared to have a smaller back door. (I look for 31 and 7/8 inches tall back door to fit a pin.)
I bet they are moving toward more compact size to make the EV more efficient.

Yeah - rear opening height will be important on whatever car I buy.

#6739 9 months ago

Volvo is now taking reservations on the EX30. No dealer BS to deal with either. I don't think a pin is gonna fit in that one though.

https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ex30-electric/features/

#6740 9 months ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Get an Equinox EV. Much cheaper...

And apparently you’ll be able to use the Tesla supercharger network!! The dominoes are falling fast now…

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/06/08/gm-tesla-partner-on-ev-charging-network.html

#6741 9 months ago

I’m gonna get the proverbial hammer for this but, why not consider hybrids ?

It seems that the tech is relatively well established at this point. No full adoption of a new infrastructure is required. For those that don’t mind compromise, there are plug in hybrids.

I’ve been a Ford driver for decades and am very happy in my 2015 F150 King Ranch. I’m seriously considering something like a Toyota Highlander Hybrid for my next car (hopefully 4/5 years away).

#6742 9 months ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I’m gonna get the proverbial hammer for this but, why not consider hybrids ? ...

Meh. Want to be completely free of an ICE.

#6743 9 months ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I’m gonna get the proverbial hammer for this but, why not consider hybrids ?

One answer is that a hybrid is still saddled with all the pitfalls of an ICE vehicle. You still have the engine and transmission maintenance and repairs, such as oil and filter changes, timing belt, air filter, fuel filter, plugs and wires, etc.

#6744 9 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Meh. Want to be completely free of an ICE.

Fine for you, but many of us do not want an EV.

Quoted from Neal_W:

One answer is that a hybrid is still saddled with all the pitfalls of an ICE vehicle. You still have the engine and transmission maintenance and repairs, such as oil and filter changes, timing belt, air filter, fuel filter, plugs and wires, etc.

They're also saddled with the problems of EV's as well, so there's that.

#6745 9 months ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Fine for you, but many of us do not want an EV.

Fine for you as well - to each their own. Just responding as to why I'm personally not considering a hybrid.

#6746 9 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Fine for you as well - to each their own. Just responding as to why I'm personally not considering a hybrid.

Fine for you. I wouldn't want an EV anyways. To yourself YOUR own.

#6747 9 months ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

Fine for you. I wouldn't want an EV anyways. To yourself YOUR own.

Won’t have to worry too much about adopting EV’s in 20 years anyway. New goal is not to electrify, but to remove 75% of private vehicle ownership. The wonderful WEF wants us all living in human versions of factory farming chicken coups.

#6748 9 months ago
Quoted from Nevus:

I’m gonna get the proverbial hammer for this but, why not consider hybrids?

The problem with hybrids is that their battery range is always crap. Most are like 35 miles estimated (28 miles or so actual). Traditional auto manufacturers do the minimum required to get the incentives, not what customers want. If there was a hybrid with 75 miles range I’d consider it.

The longest range hybrid is the $85,000 Karma GS-6 at 61 miles. Then there’s the $110,000 Land Rover Range Rover at 48 miles. Then the RAV4 at 42 miles and the Ford Escape at like 35. The rest of them are all very short range.

So if you have over a 20 mile commute you have two choices for a hybrid and both are more expensive than buying both a 330 mile EV and a decent gas car!

But like others said it’s probably better to just go one or the other. I don’t want to take an EV range loss by hauling around all the extra weight of the gas components when I’d only use them a few times a year on a long trip. Better to just go all EV then get a gas rental for that long trip if you’re nervous about an EV. For me, I love road tripping my EV. It forces me to stop every 3 to 4 hours for a 20 minute break. I arrive more relaxed and feel better.

#6749 9 months ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

They're also saddled with the problems of EV's as well, so there's that.

Exactly incorrect. With a hybrid there is no range anxiety, search for a working charger, planning charge stops on a road trip, long charge times, warming up the battery, or worry the battery will be empty in an emergency, etc.

Quoted from tripplett:

The problem with hybrids is that their battery range is always crap.

You keep saying "hybrid" while referring to Plug-in hybrid or PHEV which is not the same. Also, WHO CARES if your battery range is lacking on some drives? You travel the first 40miles on cheaper/cleaner electric and the ICE engine gets you rest of the way when necessary.

#6750 9 months ago
Quoted from Neal_W:

Exactly incorrect. With a hybrid there is no range anxiety, search for a working charger, planning charge stops on a road trip, long charge times, warming up the battery, or worry the battery will be empty in an emergency, etc.

You keep saying "hybrid" while referring to Plug-in hybrid or PHEV which is not the same. Also, WHO CARES if your battery range is lacking on some drives? You travel the first 40miles on cheaper/cleaner electric and the ICE engine gets you rest of the way when necessary.

I think they’re mostly referring to the mechanical disadvantages of each. If the ev system goes down, you’re dead. If the gas system goes down, you’re dead. It basically quadruples the potential for problems compared to an ev (and adds 50% potential problems for a traditional gas car).

That said, I love my rav4 hybrid. Routine 35 mpg average and can haul a pin.

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