Ann Arbor, MI
Quoted from MrBally:...
I'll still take my antiquated, soon to be obsolete nineteen year old Audi that will pull away from all current Plaids....
Yes but you had to move out of Michigan to get those speeds sir.
(Topic ID: 310586)
I don't know how much the deposit for the pre order was. But I'd be pissed too
March 3 (Reuters) - Rivian Automotive Inc ( RIVN )
rolled back price hikes on electric vehicles booked before March 1 on Thursday, days after facing backlash from customers following a 20% price hike.
Prices for preorders as of March 1 will roll back to the previous price and customers who canceled orders can reinstate them, Chief Executive RJ Scaringe said in a letter.
The Amazon-backed company said on Tuesday it had increased selling prices of its vehicles by about 20% due to inflationary pressures and higher component costs.
Under the previous plan, the base price of the Rivian R1T electric pickup would have risen to about $79,500 from $67,500, while the R1S SUV to $84,500 from $70,000.
Surahammar
Quoted from RyanStl:In the last 6 months I have been seeing a lot of these Polestar 2's. I'm really mixed on the styling, but have decided I like it. Still too pricey for me though.
It looks pretty dumb imo, just like most EVs.
Tall and small.
Yes, very pricey for what it is. Just like all EVs….
And a dumb name.
Quoted from paynemic:Yes. It will slow to a stop. It’s supposed to pull over. But remember to compare to a standard ICE car. You fall asleep at the wheel you drive off the road and die. I’ve literally seen a car do that right in front of me.
Right, either way that's not good. Still, Tesla designed the car to stop in the middle of the freeway which is very dangerous. I can easily see litigation over something like that if nasty accident. One could always argue that there should of been safer alternatives.
Quoted from jawjaw:Right, either way that's not good. Still, Tesla designed the car to stop in the middle of the freeway which is very dangerous. I can easily see litigation over something like that if nasty accident. One could always argue that there should of been safer alternatives.
Yeah I hope that’s not the case. The software says it’s supposed to pull to the side of the road in that situation. But, yeah, generally that’s a bad situation regardless of what you’re driving.
Quoted from paynemic:Yeah I hope that’s not the case. The software says it’s supposed to pull to the side of the road in that situation. But, yeah, generally that’s a bad situation regardless of what you’re driving.
Only a lot of freeways in the US don't have adequate shoulders so the car will literally stop in the lane if it's confused... It's a well documented issue in CA where almost no urban freeway has adequate shoulders on either side of the road.
Jeff
Quoted from jawjaw:Tesla designed the car to stop in the middle of the freeway which is very dangerous. I can easily see litigation over something like that if nasty accident.
People gripe about the US legal system for plenty of good reasons, but product safety lawsuits against the auto industry have played an important role in design improvements -- flaming Pintos and SUV roll-overs leap to mind. And they'll presumably do the same in the EV era (unless Musk cranks up those political donations and buys himself some tort-reform exemption).
Quoted from jawjaw:Right, either way that's not good. Still, Tesla designed the car to stop in the middle of the freeway which is very dangerous. I can easily see litigation over something like that if nasty accident. One could always argue that there should of been safer alternatives.
Having sat on a Product Liability Jury, I can hear an Attorney say something like "so, you intentionally designed/developed/approved a system with a defect that can stop a vehicle in a traffic lane on highways"?
Quoted from yaksplat:I personally can't drive a car without a manual transmission in it. Therefore, there's no EV for me. And no, fake manuals don't count.
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah thats a big one for sure.
FB_IMG_1646414369622 (resized).jpgQuoted from fosaisu:People gripe about the US legal system for plenty of good reasons, but product safety lawsuits against the auto industry have played an important role in design improvements -- flaming Pintos and SUV roll-overs leap to mind. And they'll presumably do the same in the EV era (unless Musk cranks up those political donations and buys himself some tort-reform exemption).
I wrote FLAMMABLE on the back of my Pinto. Just to be safe. Note this is not my car.
Quoted from MrBally:[quoted image]
It’s the best anti theft device on the market now
Quoted from MrBally:[quoted image]
I purposely bought my commuter Corolla with a stick and I know a lot of people can't drive manual anymore, but I figured people at the dealership could. Like you'd think that would be a pre-requisite, but the last time I brought it in for service the guy had to go grab another employee to pull it into the bay for him because he couldn't drive stick. I found it pretty comical. He then went on to talk about how rare it is to find one with a stick. I know bud, I'm the one who bought it, its not like every dealership was overflowing with them lol. I don't even hate automatics that much (in fact sometimes I prefer them) but I just HATE CVT's which is what it seems like a majority of new cars come equipped with. CVT's suck to drive, tend to be noisy, and they WILL fail and nobody fixes them.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Hydrogen is dead
https://apple.news/ARX2zk4X7Q7OthhvLHNsApA
Even if this concept comes to market, which it won't, there literally isn't any place to refuel it... I believe the article said there are 46 hydrogen stations in the US. And people whine about BEV range...??? There's also still that pesky issue with delivery and the reality that most hydrogen comes from natural gas...
It's not that I don't applaud different technologies and I'm sure there is a use for hydrogen powered transportation in certain segments, it just won't be in every day automobiles. I suppose if you could come up with a way to generate hydrogen without fossil fuels being the source that would be something but you still have the delivery and storage issues to contend with.
To me mass produced hydrogen cars are like nuclear fusion, the potential is there, but the reality isn't.
Jeff
Quoted from jeffro01:Even if this concept comes to market, which it won't, there literally isn't any place to refuel it... I believe the article said there are 46 hydrogen stations in the US. And people whine about BEV range...??? There's also still that pesky issue with delivery and the reality that most hydrogen comes from natural gas...
It's not that I don't applaud different technologies and I'm sure there is a use for hydrogen powered transportation in certain segments, it just won't be in every day automobiles. I suppose if you could come up with a way to generate hydrogen without fossil fuels being the source that would be something but you still have the delivery and storage issues to contend with.
To me mass produced hydrogen cars are like nuclear fusion, the potential is there, but the reality isn't.
Jeff
Did you even read the article? It’s much further along then your thinking. You can’t possibly think EV is as far as the automobile will advance.
Quoted from Jaybird815:Did you even read the article? It’s much further along then your thinking. You can’t possibly think EV is as far as the automobile will advance.
Never said any of that and yes I read the article. It also said things like "details are scarce" and "later this decade" but okay...
Jeff
Quoted from jeffro01:Never said any of that and yes I read the article. It also said things like "details are scarce" and "later this decade" but okay...
Jeff
I’m not saying it’s going to be tomorrow, but you’re the one that said it’s dead, dead, dead. Which is dead wrong. The largest auto manufacturer in the world just announced a massive hydrogen powered V8 project. Successful companies do not invest hundreds of millions into “dead” tech.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I’m not saying it’s going to be tomorrow, but you’re the one that said it’s dead, dead, dead. Which is dead wrong. The largest auto manufacturer in the world just announced a massive hydrogen powered V8 project. Successful companies do not invest hundreds of millions into “dead” tech.
I do believe this is dead dead dead but I'm willing to entertain conversation to the contrary. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.
The road of technology is littered with companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars, billions even, on "dead" tech. So not sure what point you're trying to make there.
Hydrogen fuel cells are highly developed pieces of technology now. They have been for the better part of the last decade. The questions remain though, where are we getting the hydrogen from and how are you going to get it into the tanks of the vehicles that need it?
Jeff
My EV sure feels nice driving past gas stations with 2022 gas prices while having 20 months left on my free nights electricity plan!
Quoted from jeffro01:Even if this concept comes to market, which it won't, there literally isn't any place to refuel it... I believe the article said there are 46 hydrogen stations in the US. And people whine about BEV range...??? T
See! This is what I've said about the Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles! If I got one today, the nearest refueling station for me is a 15.9 mile drive! Drive 32 (or more) miles to refuel and use up a nifty percentage of your range by the time you get home! EV's make a lot more sense in that area.
Edit: Closest location is 8 miles away, but a15.9 mile drive.
Quoted from mattosborn:C'mon now... hydrogen transportation has been around for quite a while!
[quoted image]
The fire started on the outer skin. That's mostly what you're seeing burning in the fire (hydrogen burns clear). The Hindenburg stayed in the air nearly half a minute after the flames erupted. Why? Because the hydrogen cells in the rear hadn't caught fire yet and were still lifting the back end up.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/hindenburg-the-new-evidence/
There is 2 passenger cars already on the market, California is planning on 60 more fueling stations by 25. East coast is in development for a bunch as well. There’s currently 40,000 hydrogen powered passenger vehicles worldwide, most of those in Japan. The whole driving a bomb is nonsense.
I don’t hate EVs, I almost bought a Mustang Mach E. They wanted 15k over MSRP. I ended up ordering a Bronco that I’ll have to wait a year+ to get.
Quoted from girloveswaffles:See! This is what I've said about the Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles! If I got one today, the nearest refueling station for me is fifteen miles away! Drive 30 (or more) miles to refuel and use up a nifty percentage of your range by the time you get home! EV's make a lot more sense in that area.
The Toyota Mirai comes with a card for 3 years of free fuel.
Quoted from Jaybird815:The Toyota Mirai comes with a card for 3 years of free fuel.
3 years worth of fuel that you have to drive a considerable distance to get isn't convenient.
Quoted from Jaybird815:There is 2 passenger cars already on the market, California is planning on 60 more fueling stations by 25. East coast is in development for a bunch as well. There’s currently 40,000 hydrogen powered passenger vehicles worldwide, most of those in Japan. The whole driving a bomb is nonsense.
Seriously. I live in Metropolitan Los Angeles County. I'm half way between L.A and Santa Ana in Orange County. I'd be refueling two or three times a week and wasting time just getting to a refueling location. God forbid I would want to drive to Vegas in a Mirai (also one of the ugliest cars on the road along with it's look alike Prius ). Hard pass on hydrogen.
I think I jinxed myself starting this thread… after four flawless Teslas, my two week old model Y is in the shop! Hahah. Just wouldn’t roll out of the driveway one morning. It had a very polite error message that said to call service. Still being diagnosed.
The good news is that I got a model X for a loaner. I’ve forgotten how cool the model X is. Updates about my breakdown will be forthcoming…
Quoted from paynemic:I think I jinxed myself starting this thread… after four flawless Teslas, my two week old model Y is in the shop! Hahah. Just wouldn’t roll out of the driveway one morning. It had a very polite error message that said to call service. Still being diagnosed.
The good news is that I got a model X for a loaner. I’ve forgotten how cool the model X is. Updates about my breakdown will be forthcoming…
Well at least they gave you a loaner. How long has it been in the shop? (serious question).
Geez look at the fuel prices!. How did that happen!?
Gotta have an "EV" then ... ?
Or, all they'd have to do is undo the backwards PC "green new deal" nonsense, and start producing the barrels again...
Voila! ... no need for EVs anymore!? 
Of course there will always be a portion of folk whom won't get it until the blaring blatant obvious is thrown on their windscreen or whatever. Point will come whatever way, they'll have no choice but to work it all out.
I wouldn't own a "commercial" EV. That s#it BURNS. To the ground, and things surrounding. Fast! :3
Nobody ever gonna get me into any of that cr@p! . Might be useful for a deathwish, or to cook a barbie?. ha ha
Quoted from girloveswaffles:3 years worth of fuel that you have to drive a considerable distance to get isn't convenient.
Seriously. I live in Metropolitan Los Angeles County. I'm half way between L.A and Santa Ana in Orange County. I'd be refueling two or three times a week and wasting time just getting to a refueling location. God forbid I would want to drive to Vegas in a Mirai (also one of the ugliest cars on the road along with it's look alike Prius ). Hard pass on hydrogen.
I agree, they are still in their infancy. And they are damn ugly. I also think almost all EVs, save a couple, are as well.
The one innovation that Tesla brought that I hope is here to stay, is direct sales. I’d rather get a colonoscopy then deal with the current car buying experience.
Quoted from paynemic:I think I jinxed myself starting this thread… after four flawless Teslas, my two week old model Y is in the shop! Hahah. Just wouldn’t roll out of the driveway one morning. It had a very polite error message that said to call service. Still being diagnosed.
The good news is that I got a model X for a loaner. I’ve forgotten how cool the model X is. Updates about my breakdown will be forthcoming…
That sucks, sorry to hear. It’s still an issue with Tesla’s.
https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/amp/
Quoted from girloveswaffles:Well at least they gave you a loaner. How long has it been in the shop? (serious question).
Just over the weekend. They haven’t even diagnosed yet.
Quoted from Jaybird815:I agree, they are still in their infancy. And they are damn ugly. I also think almost all EVs, save a couple, are as well.
The one innovation that Tesla brought that I hope is here to stay, is direct sales. I’d rather get a colonoscopy then deal with the current car buying experience.
Definitely agree. Sold one to a dealer lately. That was terrible enough. Two hours of bs
I thought I heard that the port of Los Angeles was going all electric years ago. I see now they have taken delivery of 5 hydrogen Kenworth/Toyota Semis and have 5 more on the way and are working with Shell for hydrogen. Got to cut down that LA smog somehow.
Quoted from razorsedge:Nobody ever gonna get me into any of that cr@p
lithium ion batteries are just wonderful ...in a Tesla your sitting on them ....makes you just want to hang the same technology on the wall of your house ( Tesla power wall ) and risk your house burning down.
Quoted from jeffro01:Only a lot of freeways in the US don't have adequate shoulders so the car will literally stop in the lane if it's confused... It's a well documented issue in CA where almost no urban freeway has adequate shoulders on either side of the road.
Jeff
Care to site that comment about inadequate shoulders? I drive L.A. and Orange county freeways almost daily. I can tell you that the shoulders are more than adequate in the most part, except for parts of the 110 freeway from Los Angeles to Pasadena. But that was built over 75 years ago.
But I-5 has wide shoulders through my area and has been or is being widened from Anaheim to Downtown L.A. and has been getting wider shoulders. Sounds like whoever is made that claim is full of B.S.
Quoted from girloveswaffles:Care to site that comment about inadequate shoulders? I drive L.A. and Orange county freeways almost daily. I can tell you that the shoulders are more than adequate in the most part, except for parts of the 110 freeway from Los Angeles to Pasadena. But that was built over 75 years ago.
But I-5 has wide shoulders through my area and has been or is being widened from Anaheim to Downtown L.A. and has been getting wider shoulders. Sounds like whoever is made that claim is full of B.S.
Google earth I-70 in Independence, Missouri, . Zoom in and you can see I-70 has proper shoulders.
added picture of I-70
I-70 (resized).jpgQuoted from Jaybird815:I’d rather get a colonoscopy then deal with the current car buying experience.
I just email every dealer within 200 miles and ask for their best price on the car i want. With the ones that respond I'll negotiate. On my last car purchase, i negotiated and set up my trade in entirely via text. Pictures of my trade in and all. I drove 2 hours, was at the dealership for an hour and drove my new car home. I can't think of an easier process other than having the car dropped off at my house.
Quoted from yaksplat:I just email every dealer within 200 miles and ask for their best price on the car i want. With the ones that respond I'll negotiate.
That’s how I bought my last two cars as well, price and all details were settled before I left I my house. I can’t imagine doing otherwise - you can research, compare prices, and respond to emails on your own timeframe.
Quoted from yaksplat:I just email every dealer within 200 miles and ask for their best price on the car i want. With the ones that respond I'll negotiate. On my last car purchase, i negotiated and set up my trade in entirely via text. Pictures of my trade in and all. I drove 2 hours, was at the dealership for an hour and drove my new car home. I can't think of an easier process other than having the car dropped off at my house.
Ordering new was a breeze as well, built the truck on the Ford app and sent it to the local dealer, was in and out in 20 minutes. I’m not trading anything in, selling privately. Only way I’ll buy a vehicle going forward. Kind of makes new car dealerships useless, IMO.
Quoted from girloveswaffles:Care to site that comment about inadequate shoulders? I drive L.A. and Orange county freeways almost daily. I can tell you that the shoulders are more than adequate in the most part, except for parts of the 110 freeway from Los Angeles to Pasadena. But that was built over 75 years ago.
But I-5 has wide shoulders through my area and has been or is being widened from Anaheim to Downtown L.A. and has been getting wider shoulders. Sounds like whoever is made that claim is full of B.S.
Come up north to the Bay Area... It's a well known thing in the Tesla forums going back to when the autopilot was still running on the legacy MobileEye hardware. Either way, not going to argue with you on this.
Jeff
Quoted from bob_e:https://earth.google.com/web/search/39%c2%b04%e2%80%b247%e2%80%b3N+94%c2%b024%e2%80%b224%e2%80%b3W/@39.04560055,-94.42814375,310.47152291a,1695.61383451d,35y,0h,45.00570623t,0r/data=CigiJgokCZbq9oHFuDxAEaiNBH0wxjvAGZDf1BOQYjpAIZObaRHvTlXA
Google earth I-70 in Independence, Missouri, . Zoom in and you can see I-70 has proper shoulders.
added picture of I-70[quoted image]
You're not wrong but Tesla has a nasty habit of engineering based on what's right out their front door... Which up until recently was Palo Alto and Fremont CA...
Jeff
Quoted from razorsedge:Geez look at the fuel prices!. How did that happen!?
Gotta have an "EV" then ... ?
Or, all they'd have to do is undo the backwards PC "green new deal" nonsense, and start producing the barrels again...
Voila! ... no need for EVs anymore!?
Of course there will always be a portion of folk whom won't get it until the blaring blatant obvious is thrown on their windscreen or whatever. Point will come whatever way, they'll have no choice but to work it all out.
I wouldn't own a "commercial" EV. That s#it BURNS. To the ground, and things surrounding. Fast! :3Nobody ever gonna get me into any of that cr@p! . Might be useful for a deathwish, or to cook a barbie?. ha ha
What a completely ignorant and quite frankly, STUPID, thing to post. Do you really believe gas cars don't catch fire? Please...
It's amazing to me the kind of FUD that still exists out there...
Jeff
Quoted from Jaybird815:That sucks, sorry to hear. It’s still an issue with Tesla’s.
https://www.hotcars.com/what-every-buyer-should-know-about-tesla-reliability/#:~:text=According%20to%20J.D.%20Power%2C%20Tesla,Dependability%20Survey%20released%20last%20year.
https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/amp/
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/teslas-reliability-ratings-are-pretty-concerning-but-does-anyone-actually-care/?amp
Truth be told Tesla's are some of the most unreliable cars out there and the data shows that if you really want to look. I tell people who buy Tesla's, it's sort of like gambling in a casino... You spend a lot of money and you might get lucky and get a good one, or you might be unlucky and get a bad one. Tesla's QC is atrocious, and always has been. The joke used to be NEVER buy a EOQ Tesla if you want one that's properly assembled as they tend to push the line really hard, quality be damned, at EOQ to push as many deliveries as possible.
But like your other post pointed out, their direct sales model is outstanding. Makes my skin crawl now just going to a traditional stealership... Like what I'm pretty sure happened with my F150 Lightening, dealer calls me to go over my reservation and talk about timelines and things seem to be going well until I get asked if I have any other new vehicle needs and when I said no my timeline suspiciously slipped to "who knows, sometime probably in 2023"... Now do I know the dealer did anything negative to me? Nope, but stealerships have long since lost the benefit of the doubt...
Jeff
Quoted from yaksplat:I just email every dealer within 200 miles and ask for their best price on the car i want. With the ones that respond I'll negotiate. On my last car purchase, i negotiated and set up my trade in entirely via text. Pictures of my trade in and all. I drove 2 hours, was at the dealership for an hour and drove my new car home. I can't think of an easier process other than having the car dropped off at my house.
I can... Not having to play the "give me your best price" BS for starters. 
Jeff
Quoted from jeffro01:I can... Not having to play the "give me your best price" BS for starters.
Jeff
buy on line and pay sticker?? Throw your money away....
My wife is a shopper not a consumer, big difference in how much she spends.
I went in with the GM Employee discount, brother-in-law, got fixed price. Then deduct credit card points. = $5K off sticker out the door.
A buddy bought a 2019 Corvette in Sept. 19, about $10K off sticker, since the 2020 Corvettes were in top demand.
Would you pay $13,700 for a NIB Rush LE ? msrp $11,099 (local on on craigslist)
Quoted from bob_e:buy on line and pay sticker?? Throw your money away....
My wife is a shopper not a consumer, big difference in how much she spends.
I went in with the GM Employee discount, brother-in-law, got fixed price. Then deduct credit card points. = $5K off sticker out the door.
A buddy bought a 2019 Corvette in Sept. 19, about $10K off sticker, since the 2020 Corvettes were in top demand.
Would you pay $13,700 for a NIB Rush LE ? msrp $11,099 (local on on craigslist)
If prices were standard across all stealerships, like they should have always been and should be today, there wouldn't be any of this "throw your money away" BS. Straight forward pricing isn't some wild fantasy...
Jeff
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