Looks cool, but theme feels stale already since the series didn't get (or deserve) the love LOTR got. Could be The Shadow of the future. The one at Allentown was broken when I was there, really looked forward to trying it.

You forgot "When I win the lottery" as a poll option.

I dunno, the artwork looks great, Jack took a lot of pro player tips and advice on this game, redesigned to suit pro players, and has JRR Tolkien material to use...

Looks kickass. Just has ta get em built and out the doors.

I already pre-ordered but never intended to be waiting anywhere near this long. If games aren't being delivered at a decent pace by September then I'll get my deposit back and move to the wait and see category. Thankfully I used a good distributor and credit card for my deposit. Have been in the hobby long enough now not to worry about finding the game at a fair price when I'm ready.

I preordered in Sept 2013 but backed out after Expo. After seeing all of the changes made since then and the code, sound and FX work occurring I wanted to get back in on the game. I just purchased my old preorder spot back from a friend that I sold it.

I'm still bummed that Smaug doesn't interact with the ball directly but a lot of other aspects of the game pulled me back in with the main ones being the software work being done by Keith and Ted and the sound work by David. 34 modes with 34 unique tracks recorded by Two Steps From Hell sounds amazing.

I need more time to play it before making a decision

Very early order here (I was a day one WOZ owner). I pre-ordered in Nov 2012. In April of 2014 I was $5400 in to the game and asked for a refund. I made the decision to wait and see. When they are available used, I may be interested.

In since December 2012. Hope the pin will be in my house this year. Really looking forward to it.

Wait and see. I bought a HUO WoZ for less than preorder price before all the preorders had shipped. Hope to do the same with Hobbit.

Really??? Less than $6500? Wow. I think I recall a stint when folks had long awaited and some sold as soon as they got them at a loss. That never made sense to me.

There were originally two WOZ preorder levels. One at $6500 and the other at $7500. Same thing with The Hobbit but $7500 early and $8k-$9k today.

Probably too late to add to add this option, but you could have included "wait for a used one".
This is the only realistic one for me.

Your suggestion is really "Wait and See."

And it's possible that by waiting and picking it up used, you could actually get the game before some of the preorder folks.

Yup, and CAD dollar at that.

Preordered here

Preorder here as well.

How pissed will you pre order guys be when JJP starts selling standard Hobbits off the line before making your LE that you paid for already?

It depends: will The Hobbit that I eventually get be from the latest generation of the radically different WOZ platform, featuring LED lighting, loaded widebody with four bidirectional troll trapdoors, LCD backglass, animatronic Smaug, Back Alley sculpts, high def clips, high def stereo sound, and banks of individually controlled drops?

Because I'm happily willing to suffer the expense (as a delay) of the Hobbit in addition to the preorder expense (as a reduced price) as a means of sustaining JJP, and thereby allowing the JJP platform to further evolve with its third pin. I enjoy the choice between two different manufacturers with two different design philosophies and recognize that this is part of what i have to deal with to maintain that choice. But i consider the delay expense as trivial for the choice payoff, since I do not believe the prospect of never receiving my TH at all is a realistic concern. I also believe there's a reasonable chance that JJP will no longer require long term preordering for cash flow management after TH partially due to my patience, and that pleases me.

Or will TH be same-old, same-old?

In which case, I would be very upset. I don't need to suffer delays for a Stern-style 1990-2000 pin: i can already buy a Stern for that experience without the delay. Not bad mouthing Stern at all. Just saying I want a CHOICE between two DIFFERENT design foundations, and understand that a new upstart company requires time to get the cash flow worked out on products like pins.

Besides, I understand that the delays involve improving the pin substantially. I find the updates, though limited in number, exciting in content. So to a small degree, i'm enjoying watching the design evolution even while suffering the production delay that necessarily follows.

But, hey, that's just me.

I'm fine waiting as I know its coming, after Predator I have lost the impatience in waiting for new pins. Alien LE preorder, The Hobbit preorder, Stern pins never will I preorder again.

Solid answer, I don't normally read posts that long but I did, well done.

I personally would flip out if someone had my money and didn't bother to rush getting my merchandise to my doorstep, but that's just me.

It will happen! I have a friend that got his Ruby Red before some had their ECWOZLE !

If JJP fails to deliver Hobbit, which I have to guess won't happen, would be the most miserable fail of all times.

Predator/Jpoo combined would be a smaller fail compared to that.

What if they did it for the good of pinball?

Exactly, history repeats itself.

You know what my favorite pin purchases have been? TRON, ac/dc and Metallica......... Oh wow, those are all Sterns, weird.

LOL! I guess it's all good then. (Blowing brains out with handgun emoticon)

Not even close. The hobby/market would be stung to a much larger degree as a whole compared to those two losers going down like they did.

That's what I said Bro! Agreed!

Lol at the state of pinball when "after I PLAY one" isn't even considered to be a poll answer!

I'm still interested in TH but will not even consider buying one until:

1. I play one.... That actually works. When WoZ came out, I drove all over creation looking for one to play. I found two, both were turned off due to them either having 1/2 or ALL the lights malfunctioning (old led board issues).

2. Enough reach the market to trust that there's no repeat of the old JJP QC issues (light boards, GI lighting, PF, etc) OR some new one introduced with all the advances in this model

3. There's one actually available to SHIP once I pay for it.

4. (Optional) someone comes out with a mod/replacement for Smaug

Seems like common sense for most purchases, but will sadly likely be received as RADICAL in the world of boutique pinball...

.

Agree with Rob. Saw signs (ignored them) on PREDATOR, get what I deserve. Saw signs early on Jpop, felt horrible watching my concerns come true.

Jack has a hard time with losing. I like that. He's smart and driven. Ok too. Watching a too big to fail company fold and give up before game #2? Not seeing it.

Stern is managing to evolve their entire platform, while they ship games! Crazy concept.

Why laugh at the state of pinball if not playing isn't an option? Shouldn't that be a good thing meaning we can buy a pin, play 500 games on it and resell it typically without issue. And 500 games @$1 per play = $500; so even if you take a loss all is not loss. So unless you're statement was meant to be a positive one, I'd say the hobby is in a great state to play sight unseen.

Edit: that said. I personally will never preorder again but that has to do more with code than anything.

Stern is still shipping with dmd displays. Really, little comparison there. I love both Stern and JJP. Own both. Want all including boutiques to thrive.

I would buy TH after playing first if I love it.

Understood. But Stern is an established company at this point. Not an upstart like JJP, which will have more cash flow issues initially, even if highly successful.

Even then, as far as pins currently produced, Stern hasn't produced anything nearly as innovative as Woz in awhile in my opinion. Again, not bad mouthing Stern: though they haven't done too much innovative recently, they've produced plenty of fun pins (my ACDC is a forever-keeper!) on time and on-budget (though software is a bit of an issue...).

But I find Stern's pins relatively formulaic compared to JJP's only pin thus far. I want the pin hobby mixed up more than that.

I think things are looking up for future Stern pins when it comes to innovation, with a new assembly facility and platform. But even those steps I attribute to the presence of JJP pressuring Stern to up their game.

"To big to fail" - lol- please.

Companies bigger and better managed than JJP fail every day...

What's the quote about people who fail to learn from history?

Anyways, I certainly hope JJP doesn't fail, but there's no "moral hazard" involved if it does. JJPs finances "appear" to be tenuous at best (based on the credit info and the fact that they can't survive with out unsecured preorder "loans").

It's a tricky business. A company like JJP can't afford for even ONE title to flop or the whole place will collapse. That's a lot of pressure and risk! Personally, I think they made enough changed to TH for it to not flop. And, btw I was totally wrong about their choice for WoZ as a theme- it was actually pretty smart. But jacks in a tough spot- he has to be right every time- at least for the next handful of titles.

Do you honestly think spending the time and money to develop Spike, they won't introduce something new for a display?

I agree as well. As long as the pins are fun to play (and by play, I mean actually play pinball, not stare at a screen or be wowed by a cabinet). Stern seems to be doing something right, as they continue to sell a ton of pins.

Thankfully JJP has done something that JPOP and SkitB never did...actually ship a game. They also corrected a serious issue with the games light boards and cranked out code updates sometimes twice a month for over 6 months straight. I have no worries with being a preorder customer with JJP. If they didn't make the changes with The Hobbit after Expo I would have been worried.

I suppose this is a good thread to state my current position on The Hobbit.

I got in late on the preorder in November 2013. I was relatively new to pinball at that time. I had no problem paying in full & waiting, because I wanted to support a new company like JJP. I was really impressed with WOZ, and felt they were going to build something really special with the Hobbit. I thought the layout looked exciting, the theme was right up my alley, and I knew Keith's programming would take it to another level.

Over nearly the last 2 years I've bought, owned, & sold several pins, refined my tastes, gone to shows, and read countless threads everyday on Pinside educating myself about the hobby. I am far more educated now than I was when I placed my Hobbit pre-order. Then I weathered through the ups & downs of the whole Hobbit production process. Finally in January of this year, when the Hobbit failed to start production, I took off my rose colored glasses & took a step back. I understood the delays from the Expo changes, but I began to question why a guy like me with a limited budget was dropping 8K+ on a pin that I hadn't even played yet. Then the 6 months of further delays with zero communication from JJP really began to rub me the wrong way more than anything else.

I finally came to the rational decision that production won't begin on the Hobbit until maybe August this year. I realized that I was at the back of the preorder line. Based on JJPs production speed & track record, it's likely to assume there will be more unexpected issues & part delays after production finally starts. They'll also produce more standards along with the 1500 LE preorders to infuse some new cash during production, like they did on WOZ. I don't blame them. But I finally determined that I probably wouldn't get my Hobbit until Spring of 2016, at the earliest. I am I right? Maybe I'm wrong....but the thought of waiting almost another year became a hard pill to swallow.

I had finally reached my breaking point. I asked for a refund just before the NW Pinball Festival. I admire those of you who have more patience & resolve than I do, who are willing to continue waiting for this machine. I have no doubt that Keith's programming on The Hobbit will be incredible. I just feel like the Hobbit hype is really getting effected from these delays. Yes the Hobbit will be a better game because of it, but they'll also be facing more competition for those limited dollars when other options like Game of Thrones (possibly) & Alien LE go into production later this year. A lot has changed in the industry since the hobbit was first announced.

Let's be clear.....I don't care who is building these pins, I am not a fanboy. Stern, JJP, Highway....I'd buy from any of them, as long as they're building the games that I want to see. I still support JJP & wish them nothing but success. I have no doubt that I'll own one of their machines someday down the road, but it won't be from a pre-order. Those days are are over for me. For those of you still waiting on delivery, keep hanging in there.

great post HoakyPoaky.

I can lend a little insight as a distributor... Not just for Jersey Jack Pinball (WOZ) but also for Spooky Pinball (AMH) and Planetary Pinball (MMR) what has occurred with all these games. We obviously get orders in bulk when a game is announced... Then there's a trickle that dies down as the pre-order months roll on. We get upticks again at shows when the game is seen and played... Then when the game is starting to ship all hell breaks loose. With WOZ it happened. With AMH it wasn't shipping but when the game started selling bonkers at the Texas show and then Pinside got word of it. And with MMR it happened - when shipping started it went nuts. We sat on a number LE's for quite a while then they were essentially gone in a week after the games started shipping. So, not to push sales, but my advice is when you are ready if you are a fence sitter - and I frankly don't blame anyone for doing so at this point - BEFORE the game is going to start shipping - maybe a month prior - ORDER - get in line. With AMH for example people who ordered just before the Texas show will get their games months and months before those stuck in the mix of the flurry. Maybe not a good example as Spooky's capacity doesn't lend itself to high production numbers. But it'll be the same with the Hobbit... The games will sell in big numbers when it starts to ship and the confidence is there it's now happening, but those that wait til then may wait untold months vs those who are ordering now or will soon. My two cents on the mind of the buyer as I see it from where I sit and what I know ends up occurring with regard to shipping time.

Shameless plug - we have Hobbit standards, LEs, and Smaug Golds (bought a number of them before they went off sale) to sell - email for best pricing ! We are still selling from our very large allotment we purchased before the game was announced - so you will be more earlier than later even at this late date in the game. : )

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
[email protected]
570-357-0042

When will that be? Which month should we jump in line?

Exactly, someone taking this advice would have JUMPED in line *just in time* back in November of 2014....

No offense, but taking advice on when to buy from someone stil trying to sell their initial consignment needs to be taken with a boulder of salt.

In the absence of other information, I would GUESS production starts late August to coincide with JJP's recently-announced open house, which would mean later this month as a good time to jump in.

But your point is taken: who knows when production shall really start?

I know people who were told this exact same thing from their distributor when they bought WOZLE, only to stand by and watch others jump in late in the game and pick up standard edition WOZes well before they got their LE's.

It doesn't really bother me. I'm still trying to beat WOZ, and college football season starts soon. My Saturdays are going to be spoken for then.

I should add, I'm just glad the dialogue has changed from if to when for TH.