I believe there is a TWD pro in my area on the marketplace right now for $4600. Maiden might be a few hundred more. I'm guessing in TX you should have some pretty solid options on the used market and the ability to wheel and deal a bit.

That leaves you another ~$2000-2500 to get something else older and solid - or some time to save a few more bucks to get into the $3000-4000 tier of pins which will open your options up a bit more.

I agree that the mechs and toys on a JJP are light years beyond anything on a stern pro... but that doesn't mean that the games themselves aren't just as fun (or even more fun). The Hobbit is downright stunning out of the box. But TWD can be a pretty good looking game too. Especially if you put in a few mods yourself once you get the pin.

I guess its all about the core goal of getting the game. Is it a piece of functional art and entertainment for your house? Is it entertainment with the goal of getting really good a pinball too?

And the 'long game' syndrome can be hard to understand until you get to that point with a game yourself. When I first started out playing the longer the ball time... the better. LOTR, Hobbit, etc. I always viewed it as better value for my quarters.

But now that I've gotten a little better at pinball I can see the beauty in games that give you all the goods in a solid 10-15 minute play session... but leave you wanting to come right back because the hill isn't so big to climb. Basically anything that Lyman codes these days seems to be a home run in this regard.

You may want to consider a Monster Bash remake. Really nice looking, good for beginners, and even hardcore pinball fans would nod in approval when they saw it.

A bonafide classic!

Agree with you 100%, and its comical how people will down vote someone just sharing an honest opinion. Hobbit is very dull and repetitive. After a while the thrill of multiballs and pop ups goes away. There just aren't many long satisfying shots in this pin. Is it beautiful? Absolutely. Built like a tank? WITHOUT question. But for a pretty skilled pinball player, it just gets boring. I love LOTR and Hobbit movies and wanted to love this in the worst way. I would go play one several times before making a decision. And i agree that Deadpool, IM Prem (in my collection and LOVE IT) would be much better choices. I'd add MB66 to that list too. And yes AFM or MB remakes from CGC would be fantastic choices too.

Pfft. You should be able to look at my post history and figure out that I couldn't give a rip about downvotes and you will ALWAYS know where you stand with me if I interact with you or post on a subject. The way it should be. (Side point, I think the up and downvotes thing in general is bad for pinside. If you want to disagree, tell me WHY, don't click an icon - the art of conversation. Pinside would be better without either, or ration the downvotes available monthly so you really have to think about using your downvote for the month.)

Plus, Hobbit is JJP's worst pin. By a mile. When you're standing on solid ground, it's very easy to stomp confidently.

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Hobbit's the best game they've made, the most intuitive, the best rules, the best use of assets, the best music, the best sound, the best callouts, best modes, the most cinematic.

Meh, Monster Bash starts with a Bash but gets old quite quickly, the rule sheet holds on a stamp and there aren't many shots to play. I would think twice before having MB at home.

Yeah, nah, it's just one of the most popular games of all time, was selling for over $10k due to high demand/short supply, and got remade to great applause...yeah, nah...no one wants that for their home.

LOL. You obviously don’t know the difference between opinion and fact.

Which is, ironically, YOUR opinion. See? I DO know!

Not ironically. Both are opinions.

Edit: Ah, I see your point. My point is your comment about solid ground implied your opinion of hobbit was fact. It is, in fact, opinion ... Well that is an odd sentence lol. Whatever, some hate hobbit, some love it. Carry on.

I do agree that pinsiders should speak their minds, without caring about the downvotes. Differing and candid opinions are why I love reading this damn site.

The Hobbit was a family and NEWB favorite in my house. No matter your skill level, when you hit the start button it will feel like you accomplished something in the game. It also gives the more experienced players numerous challenges, including the best kill shot ever in a pin. Finally the theme integration is one of the best!! The music, call outs and video assets really makes it immersive, especially in a home environment. Finally I think it is one of the best bargains on the secondary market, it can be had for 6500 and maybe less.

If your buying NIB.....go with an Attack from Mars or Monster Bash. Best BANG for your buck! Hobbit is cool but consider what many on here have said. You'll be hard pressed to find a more enjoyable pinball machine than Attack From Mars....it's a true classic that still stands tall over 20 years later.

Agree. Attack from Mars remake LE, especially, is a fantastic experience. Monster Bash remake is just too basic of a pin. I know that seems weird because BOTH of them are not exactly expansive in the code department, but AfM somehow just does it better. It's a tighter package and the LE with the large screen and interactive martian does great on route and I have yet to tire of it.

I play MB on location and I do enjoy playing it, it just wouldn't stay more than 3 months in my house, not enough replay value. But I am glad there is a shoe for every foot.

It’s easy, but it’s always fun. It’s still a satisfying challenge to get all the Monsters going to stack with Frank Multiball...plus, any game can be made as difficult as you want it...make it steeper, remove the outlane posts, turn off extra balls, etc.

I totally agree with you. Truth is I’m not a big fan of shooters, I’m more into achieving modes, going through a story of some kind and having a close to impossible wizard mode. That’s why I have a WOZ, a TSPP and also why my next pinball in sight is LOTR.

And to get back on the topic it’s also why I still feel I should like The Hobbit although the empty playfield is not very compelling, but Im willing to give it another shot, at their current resell price they are quite a steal.

If you like LOTR, you should like The Hobbit. It’s not really empty - there are 4 beasts that are often used in a variety of ways...and when you realize how every action & reaction is so cleverly programmed, it’s very much like LOTR - each shot can have multiple uses and outcomes. It’s the same sort of Keith logic. You must play it with current code & with the sound blasting. Old code & quiet audio would make me have a different opinion about the game.

I had a AFMRLE and it was pretty cool at first especially the topper. After a few months the topper was just a topper and I saved the universe multiple times and all the callouts were kind of repetitive. I traded that game and my Hobbit is still in my lineup.

We finally get to agree on something... not sure I like that

Seriously, spend some time playing Pirates.

You can still love TH but there is no way you could honestly believe what you just wrote if you put a little time on it.

JJP finally delivered on their original over-promise of Woz. Everything really comes together.

I've owned IM Pro, TWD, and TH. I liked all three but Hobbit is the only one still around. I like longer playing games well. I really appreciate how JJP integrates the theme into the Hobbit. IMO, it is the best theme integration of all the JJP games and easily top 10 of all time. The playfield is open but there are lots to shoot for...both the qualifiers you need to get to wizard modes AND the individual modes. I also own JJP POTC and will say that I like it a tad more than TH. But Hobbit has it beat in individual modes because they are all so different and integrated into the theme. TH is really a beautiful game.

Also wanted to add that the game gets dogged a bunch. Not sure how people can call it boring though. I guess if you don't understand the ruleset or played on an old code set. Yes there are a couple of easy multi balls, one of which is Smaug. The ramp shot can be hit from either flipper. But have you beaten Smaug? Because that is pretty damn exhilarating! Also with the new code you can turn off Multiball stacking which you really need to do so you don't get Smaug and Beast at the same time as it makes killing Smaug near impossible.

The only thing I want from Hobbit that POTC has is character selection with perks. And the only thing I want from POTC that Hobbit has is more thematic modes (chapters).

Clarifying ... Smaug MB is easy to start but far from being easy to actually beat.

Hobbit doesn't have more modes than POTC.

Pirates has 105, of which 25 are randomly selected at the start of each game, 5 per movie.

The upper flipper is also better implemented in Pirates. It has a very rewarding upper loop shot that is well integrated in the rules. You can increase value with consecutive loops and it will track loop champions. It is required to start one mb and collect jackpots.

It also can feed the back VUK to the upper pf. And it's used to sink a ball in the map hole.

The great part is it's also used to hit plain ole targets so TH fans can still see that it has a purpose.

I think you misread what I was saying. I wish the modes in Pirates were more thematic, like Hobbit. I would rather have 31 thematic modes than 105 modes that are just "hit these shots in any order".

I agree the upper flipper on Hobbit is a bit of waste. I own both games so I understand what the upper flipper does on Pirates.

I have played Pirates. After Hobbit, it just feels like an unfinished game due to lack of assets. Every Hobbit mode has tons of awesome footage & voices. POTC modes just don’t FEEL like anything. I like the cinematic nature of Hobbit. POTC doesn’t have that & it’s a detriment. It might be a better playfield design, but for me the whole package must come together. Hobbit is a complete package. POTC will never have that unless they get AT LEAST character voices in the game. The one dude from the movie doesn’t even feel like a character - he’s a pinball narrator.

Yea that was kind of my point when I followed that up with, Have you ever beaten Smaug? I like the fact that it is easy to start. It gives novices something to shoot for.

The hobbit is a great pin and pretty easily maintained. My only gripe with it is that you can’t really play it with folks that aren’t regular players if you actually own it. I love the game and it’s fun, but games can last 30 min. If you’ve got other folks that are casual players, their good games are only 5 min long or so. I’ve gotten to the point where I won’t play a multiplayer game with someone because they get bored waiting for their turn. I tend to see hobbit as a better second game...so folks have something to do while waiting. I hope that makes sense and helps!

Interesting perspective. I respect what you're saying, but my impression was different - more of a lay- person playing pinball, not someone in the industry.

I never saw any Hobbit movie (nor Pirates), so my experience was about playing. I owned Lotr without seeing the movies either. I actually learned the story after playing.

My impression regarding the movie clips for both games was the same. Random scenes associated with shots. They are both well integrated on the LCD. I felt a comparable cinematic nature with both. Ironically, I thought TH shots felt very samey but I was an early code owner. I hated the layout too so I just have no interest going back.

The pirate narrator sounds really good. I think he really elevates the game. And the LCD scenes are more compelling to me, making me want to watch the films. Zombie sharks? Wtf? Visually the pirates scenes are more visually interesting than trolls at a banquet.

I will admit I'm not a die hard fan of either franchise. But fantasy dragon stuff is less interesting to me.

Overall I was surprised how impressed I was with POTC. I didn't expect to like it.

I know we both like TSPP, so I thought there'd be carryover on POTC.

Get a monster bash remake, much better first pin.

I've owned TH for 3ish months now. Beaten Smaug 12 times.

Yes, this makes perfect sense as the games have almost zero to do each other besides theme, have completely different layouts, play completely different...

I’d say stern pro. Hobbit is a slower game and has long ball times.

I like the mbR idea too. That would be a great first pin.

Keith Johnson rules, similar logic & tone. Stop trolling me, Levi.

They are both easy games that play too long. Beyond that they really have nothing to do with each other. That's not a troll.

I have no idea why someone would recommend Hobbit to someone because they like LOTR. That's trolling a buyer I guess?

I love Keith’s rulesets, so I have nothing bad to say about POTC in that regard. It’s the presentation that kills it for me. Imagine TSPP with no character voices, no clips of the characters doing things as they relate to modes, and “just some guy” as a narrator. It wouldn’t be the same. Like you, I played LOTR without seeing the movies first - but LOTR had so many great character voices that were choreographed to play at the right shots and moments, it made the game thrilling. It’s basically what pins have been doing since the 80’s: PERSONALITY. Every game has tons of characters & personality....so POTC feels like a massive step back. It’s something odd, and less satisfying to play due to it.

I was playing my STTNG the other day, and the game has ZERO from the actual show, but is packed with all the characters’ custom voice callouts and that’s part of what makes it awesome. Knowing they couldn’t use any movie footage, I wish JJP would have hired a ton of sound-alike voices to play the characters, to give the game personality. This is exactly what Stern did with their POTC. Tons of Jack Sparrow voices & other pirates keep it lively and fun. JJPOTC feels extremely sterile compared to almost any other pinball in general.

Yes you do. Don’t be disingenuous. It’s the same cinematic universe & same rules designer.

When Stern LOTR came out, all the “experts” called it ugly, clunky, and cheap. Once people spent some time with it, they realized how special it was, especially in a home environment where you can really dig into it and appreciate it. If you’ve only played Hobbit on location with early code and low sound, you cannot understand the experience the game has to offer.

This is the best advice imo. There are a ton of great games at around $3500-4000. You can even find great Stern pro games for low $4000's sometimes. Buying one expensive game to start is fine if that's the game you really want. It just gets really expensive building a 3-5 game collection at that pace. However, it's pointless buying a game that you don't particular like just because it's cheaper. Any one game gets old if that's all you play.

Hobbit was in my collection for the shortest time of any pin. WOZ the longest. Each to his own opinion, but I did not like the gameplay of Hobbit. It is very cool to look at, but not to play.

Hobbit was my second game, Iron Man VE was my first. Hobbit would be an excellent first game IMO. It's so deep and you can learn so much with it. It post passes well, it loop passes well, it bounce passes well, and it's great for learning control in multiball. It's a great pin to learn all your fundamentals on and grow as a player. My almost 5 year old son loves it when Smaug starts talking smack to him. Setup as with any machine is key. Wax it up, get it set to 7.4* and have a blast. My center post is probably coming out soon. Keefer's code is nothing short of amazing and I feel it has the best theme integration so far. Best of luck with whatever you choose.