I put $20 in a DI at free gold watch last week and was disappointed.
My wife was also disappointed.
I went there specifically to play it.
Its not a bad game, it just seemed cluttered to me. So Ill pass on it.

However I played Aerosmith pro at santa cruz boardwalk also last week and had a blast! Its a great game.

You don't use it a lot but when you do it is a pressure shot so if you can't use it well you kick yourself and then start using it. The game gets some bad press (but then look at what people used to say about woz) I play it more than anything else I have though.

I hear you, but again, you're thinking of traditional upper-flipper-to-ramp pinball flow. Remember this is not that kind of game, and this is not what the upper flipper is for. Traditional pinball will call for such a flipper to usually have one or two specific dedicated purposes, in which the ball will line up perfectly and it will excel.

The upper flipper works very differently here. This positioning does not make it a master of any one shot, nor is it supposed to (Maybe think more "Jack of all trades, master of none"). Remember too, your objectives are going to be changing on you, and you are going to have to be getting creative on how you are going to accomplish some things, possibly with a time crunch involved and/or beasts to take out or navigate around. I have used the upper right flipper for a myriad of objectives, from tagging the left loop, dropping the left hole, hitting any one of the upper left drop targets, or dwarfs, the left ramp (yes, the left ramp is tricky but possible), taking out the orc or goblin beasts, hitting the center captive ball, or even the right hole at the right time for extra ball or starting an arkenstone mode (yes, even this is possible). You are going to be thinking on your feet using this flipper. Not timing it perfectly each time it comes around the loop.

So, I get where you're coming from and I understand being confused about it at first. The key to understanding The Hobbit is really understanding that the game changes on you. We come from a background of understanding pinball components as having a single function. But what JJP has done here, building upon what they started to hint at with WoZ, is separate the physical layer (switches, ramps, pop up beast mechs, holes, drop targets) from the logical game layer (The Adventure!). This really changes the way you look at and play the game - because its not just targets and ramps(etc) anymore, its spiders and beasts and searching for things, battling orcs, bolg, wargs, saving kili, gandalf, battling Smaug, adventuring to erebor! - and I think this is precisely what the people who "don't get it" yet are missing.

All these people saying it's empty...now here's one who says it's cluttered.

Yep. Nothing to do in this game!

Ok that does it. I'm in!

Does anybody have any comments on the different versions of the game? I'm so confused with the various versions. I will be getting a used one for sure, so black arrow is out (plus I wouldn't be going for that anyway I don't think)

Different art packages smaug is the nicest imo, but the differences are the art and powdercoating on the cabinet. Smaug is the one with him the dragon on the side and gold vein armour also smaugs head in the game is painted gold a bit which looks better, there is also a special attract mode. The le has the standard art with a bronzy vein armour, and the standard is stainless

The se and le come with invisiglass and shaker

I don't see used standards for sale as often. What would be a reasonable price on a used standard?

And Smaug is the SE, right?

Good question - why are there few standards out there?

smaug is the le!

Get a Smaug owner to buy a set of decals for you and they're all Smaug.

http://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/Parts/The-Hobbit-Parts/Decal-Cabinet-Set-Hobbit-Smaug-Edition_2.html

I'm confused. According to the post above, the LE has the bronze vein armor, and the Smaug has gold vein. Or is there a second LE? Man, the JJP folks should probably reconsider having SO many versions!

Smaug is the SE: gold hammered armor, Smaug themed cabinet art, gold plated Smaug head, special extra Smaug attract mode.
The LE: bronze hammered armor, nutsack chin themed cabinet art, red Smaug head.
Black Arrow version: black plain armor, arrow themed cabinet art, red Smaug, black balls.
Standard Edition: SS armor, nutsack chin themed cabinet art, red Smaug head, no sling axes or barrel bumper toppers (?), no invisiglass, maybe no shaker...don't remember the exact details on this one.

Oh, whoops lol - sorry!

Yea best to look at the smaug like the dialed in collectors edition, it was the same idea, order before this date and you can have one, pretty sure there are fewer of these than LEs, although I dont know how many were made - mine is around #700

I think there are so few standards since if you look here eg:
http://www.pinballsandgames.com/the-hobbit-pinballs.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIttWp2uOL1QIVDkR-Ch2-wAMZEAAYASAAEgIaF_D_BwE
Its only 500 less thanle or black arrow and you get powder coat, shaker and invisiglass so hard not to just get one of those.

Thank you so much, that is very helpful

It's all cosmetic, unlike dialed in. The LE looks great as does the smaug. Both have powder coating, invisaglass and shaker. I've had both, now have le.

In a row of games you won't notice any cab art anyway and virtually all the gameplay and features are the same.

I think you don't see standards because for the$1,000
You lose investiglass , shaker and trim.
The glass is practically a must with the display screen.

Now there are deals to be had I'm happy with the LE

Ok that answers my other question. Standard is missing the same stuff that the standard WOZ was missing.

For me it was a dilemma because while I really liked the Smaug artwork, I was torn because in Tolkien's work, Smaug was not gold.

I got the Le. I just prefer the art with all the characters on it and the regular smaug head. The smaug edition looks great though, but I simply like all characters on it. No wrong choice, and both easy to find.

I agree with this. At first I was all about Smaug, but truthfully the LE is more fitting for the theme and I like the character variation. My vote is for LE.

My biggest thing on TH was when the flipper power was down, it would totally change the game. I have a friend who got a TH, and he had the flippers turned down so much you couldn't backhand the Ramps. I told him to up the power because the ramps are how you choose your adventure, and they aren't supposed to be hard, they are supposed to be relatively easy. Heck, when I played TH at a show, power was way down and it was terrible. That's my biggest recommendation is bumping the power up to where you can hit the ramps repeatedly, as there are plenty of other tight shows where accuracy is needed, but the ramps aren't one of them.

I remember trying to backhand on the first TH I came across and the ball floated up, gently kissed one of the stand-ups, then came back down. The stand-up didn't even drop. It was maddening.

Agreed. You need to be able to backhand the ramps as they are such a key part of the game.

Are the drop targets supposed to stay down after you hit them as mine reset to up position.

I just read some of the rules and to collect the 13 dwarfs you need to hit the yellow targets (9) behind drops, but how can I hit those when the drops keep resetting to up position or am I missing something?

They reset when you hit the last drop in the bank.

I'm going to criticize Hobbit for a very specific reason. The scoring.

Hobbit has overly balanced scoring. And that makes it a bit of a grind to me. I enjoy looking for strategies that can pop a score. That huge shot you have to line up, and when you collect it, bang. I never found that in TH. When that isn't there, I turn to objectives. But again, with TH I didn't feel the sense of accomplishment as I would grind through modes. It really came down to the longer you play, the better your score.

The game is gorgeous. And the sound package is top notch. I can see why some people like it, but it just didn't work for me. If it works for you, awesome. Enjoy.

The super spinner cash in can be worth big points (~50k), some modes can be worked for big points (the left ramp Gandalf mode comes to mind), and of course Arkenstone modes. Bring the 2x playfield into an Arkenstone mode or just before reaching super spinner and you will get big points.

How do you cancel beast multi ball?

Listen for Gandalf to shout "super jackpot!" Then hit the ring button. It gives you a prompt onscreen.

For me the grind is boring as all get out! I played it a handful of times and like WOZ you've got to know what you're doing to open anything up. I will admit that I don't know what I'm doing so there is that reason why I might not be having any fun. It's not a game you can just walk up to like a stern or bw and kind of know what to do. You have to look at the screen to know what to shoot at which is something we don't really do as pinball players. I played a 40min game without knowing what to do and wanted to drain 10min in... there's no risk and reward shots like many other games.

On saying all the above it is immersive, looks great, sounds phenomenal, I just wish it was a little less of a grind. But I'll play it again and see how we go. And in saying that I can't see me changing my perspective from the snooze fest

Smaug multiball has to be running too.

I can understand this. You really need to learn the game to enjoy it, otherwise it's just a lot of multiballs and beasts. The journey of progressing through the movies is the joy of the game, and until you understand how to do that, it won't be as enjoyable. There really is a lot to do in Hobbit.

Yeah and that's exactly how I felt the game played multiball and beast shots. Get out of a multiball then back into one with a tonne of beast shots zzzzzzzzz. I'll give it another crack though

It can be hard to "let go" of what you "know" about pinball and try to learn this as a different kind of game, but I hope you'll be able to give it a shot. This then becomes a game where your shots and targets are always changing. often even moving, and you have to keep up with it moment to moment. a fine challenge indeed, as it is always different.

I don't think this is strictly true, I've only cancelled this once and I'm sure the mode was running on its own. The best progrssions I've made in the rune MBs has always been when they are running on their own.

What is the best way to learn the game?

Not sure if you're understanding my comment. The journey of getting through the movies are the 3 wizard modes. You have to first learn what is required to get to into the fire. After that, then yeah, it's rinse and repeat, but the objective is to progress through the 3 wizard modes and get to the eventual end mode which is coming still. If you don't understand that, then you're just flailing multiballs around. Plus, you kill smaug if you know what you're doing during this journey.

I know Hobbit gets bashed a lot for various reasons, and that's a shame. It's just a different type of game than most. If all the games played like SW or Metallica, you would find those layouts getting stale eventually. Metallica is one of my favorite games, but even I wouldn't want to add a second game with similar layout. Change is good.

This is a good point - but I wonder why Metallica (and AC/DC, for that matter) get hailed as these AMAZING games (and they are, don't get me wrong) despite the unusual layout, but TH doesn't. On the one hand, they do seem more "packed" with features. TH seems comparable, but I think because it's a widebody it looks that much more sparse. I dunno. I have a DW; I don't mind the rules changing

Just play it and enjoy it. It's a bit daunting at first but not to difficult to figure out.

-Play modes, orange shots are the goals...book

Points? Fun?

There's the whole "feeder mode" concept which, honestly I don't even remotely understand...but I suppose if the game was in a tournament, that's something that could be important for points.

I have to imagine Keith is planning a final wizard mode that somehow requires all modes to have been played. That being said, I can't imagine ever actually finishing them all...sooo, I just play them cuz they're fun.

I would also recommend changing the LOCK settings too, to a little harder. That way it's harder to lock 3 balls and trigger the Smaug Multiball.

You can also change the spinner levels. Making it harder means that you'll need to spin using the orbit more often in order to travel towards Erebor, which is required to start Into the Fire.

Yes, and also, you can score a Mystery Award called "Spot Dwarf" which collects a dwarf automatically. You need all the dwarves to start Feast Frenzy. You need this mode to be able to trigger Into the Fire.

Yes! Think about this one. It makes your subsequent mode a 2+ ball multiball. It's a frigging sweet feature!

Rarehero, the upper metal ramp has a diverter that prevents the ball from going left or right (it drops right in the middle of the ramp, which makes the ball do a quick return), when is this used exactly? I have seen it drop only once with 1.95 code.

It's used in a few modes, off the top of my head Moon Runes is one. Also used during Barrel Escape.

Depends on the mode. Sometimes they stay down, sometimes they pop back up (or stay up). Depends what the software/mode you're playing is doing.

Yes, I had to crank my right flipper power by 2 units in order to be able to backhand at about 6.8 degrees.

Completing a mode lights up the Arkenstone insert, yes.

Not sure, but Into the Fire can grant a crapton of points as you hit the shots.

Another cool feature: If you locked 2 balls for Smaug Multiball, while you're playing to lock the 3rd (and start the multiball), the music changes, and Smaug will keep staring at the playfield, looking at your ball (well, he looks at the activated switches).

That's it! It was during that. Man, what a beauty when the machine is lit in "all cool white" while this mode is happening. I wow'ed on this one.

(is Moon Runes a regular mode?)

That's how WOZ is - if I recall correctly, you have to *finish* all the modes IN ORDER to get "Somewhere over the rainbow". It is impossible! (for me )

Wait. It never occurred to me people who "don't get" The Hobbit didn't understand that Bilbo is "Going on an adventure!" (as he screams that in the game).

Yes, the game and the shots change as the adventure progresses.

We really had to explain that???????

(never occurred to me! Jeez!)