(Topic ID: 154741)

The Hobbit in the wild! First impressions (and head-head vs GOTLE)


By lowepg

3 years ago



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  • 41 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by centerflank
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#1 3 years ago

Played a newly delivered TH today at Boxcars in Raleigh. It was also the first time I've seen/played a GOT LE - so it gave me a great chance to compare/contrast 2 titles I'm been anxious to see!

First TH.
Gorgeous. I know this has been well documented, but it's really a work of art in person.
Sound- disappointing becuase it was so loud in the arcade, I could barely hear it, outside of some of Smaugs comments.

Gameplay: it was definitely fun. I can't say I know exactly what I was doing (I didn't take the 3-credit college course on the ruleset prior to plunging). I was expecting it to be slow. It didn't feel that slow.... I DID have a bit of trouble making the ramp shots unless it was a 100% clean shot. Even then, they felt like they just trickled over the top.... Need some adjustments here I think and then they'd be much better.

Smaug: way better than I was expecting- I was really disappointed with his big reveal months (years?) ago. However, in the context of the game - it was pretty cool and the callouts (and the few LCD animations I looked up to see) looked really well integrated.

OK, moved over to GoT.
Wow, after playing a half dozen games on TH, GoT felt like I was playing in a shoebox! Obviosly I was moving from a widebody to standard, but what made it feel even more small (almost cramped) was the HUGE real estate that upper playfield takes up.

Also, I didn't really feel like TH was overly slow, but I changed my mind when compared to how blazing fast GOT felt. Wow, that games MOVEs.... And that one monster kickback almost made me jump the fist time it fired that ball back at me. Definitely more heart-thumping play with this game!

Art? Blah. Well-covered topic but it's still makes an impression - and it wasn't a good one for me.
One thing I really liked was the very intuitive ruleset. Between the light show and the DMD cues, I found myself picking up the game pretty fast.

Dragon? Blah. Way more disappointing than Smauh to be honest... Though stern never hyped it as the center piece of the game.
Sound? Too loud ambient to hear much of anything

Quick thoughts?
I enjoyed both, but didn't fall in LOVE with either.
TH was more fun than I expected.
GoT was even slightly more fun, but that huge upper playfield was a turnoff....
I'm going to keep playing both to get a better impression.

Side note:
One game I did play and (unexpectedly!!) nearly fell in LOVE with was TWD! I played one when it first came out and was underwhelmed. Playing again today felt like a new game. I actually found myself dropping more token in this title.... Which I hadn't anticipated!

#2 3 years ago

Wow.
Thanks for the write up.

Did you find TWD to be a fast ball drainer?
I totally sucked at playing it the first "many" times

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

Wow.
Thanks for the write up.
Did you find TWD to be a fast ball drainer?
I totally sucked at playing it the first "many" times

Only frustration was occasionally the ball would roll out of the pop bumpers and head SDTM. That seems like a setup issue though (this - and several other games were not leveled very well).

I really enjoyed the over the theme- but was initially disappointed with the release. Either they've really matured the code, or I was too hasty in my early impressions.

Of the three titles I played today, honestly THATs the one I actually started considering adding to my small collection.

#4 3 years ago

Great write up and I hear you about TWD it is my go to game! I play it 10 to 1 over my other games.

#5 3 years ago

Game of thrones definately feels like a short playfield, especially when missed ramp shots hit those targets and rocket back at you. I agree on walking dead too, the code has completely turned that game around.

#6 3 years ago

I personally find the trolls on th to be much more of a game annoyance and point of flow/progression killer than the upper playfield on got.

#7 3 years ago

Lowepg hit on just about everything I've felt about these two machines. But I really love the upper playfield on GOT. You've really got to learn the shots...especially that center target shot...to master the game. Just got to castle multiball last night for the first time, and it was a hell of a lot of fun for the ten seconds before I drained all the balls.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Lowepg hit on just about everything I've felt about these two machines. But I really love the upper playfield on GOT. You've really got to learn the shots...especially that center target shot...to master the game. Just got to castle multiball last night for the first time, and it was a hell of a lot of fun for the ten seconds before I drained all the balls.

Yes, I will definitely play more of each (especially since I've found a local spot with them ALL).

Maybenext time I'll walk up to the GOT FIRST, (before playing TH) - and then the playfield won't feel so cramped!

#9 3 years ago

I played hobbit a few weeks ago and honestly couldn't wait for my game to be over, and it was on 2 ball. I have woz and to me it's not even close as woz at least has some fun shots. The ramps on hobbit kept flopping around so that immediately made it feel cheap to me. I really wanted to like it to convince myself to get one.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I personally find the trolls on th to be much more of a game annoyance and point of flow/progression killer than the upper playfield on got.

Nahh that's the fun of it. Quickly having to change your focus and shot angles to deal with whatever creature appears. And killing them off IS what helps your progression through the game. Unlike MM where the trolls appear with much fanfare and your anticipation...TH keeps you on your toes with almost rpg-like random attacks. Not a bad concept for a game.

#11 3 years ago

Is the hobbit a slow as woz ?

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I personally find the trolls on th to be much more of a game annoyance and point of flow/progression killer than the upper playfield on got.

The beasts pop ups are great and incorporated well. What makes em so good is how the ball reacts to hitting them. They're fun and feel great!

I thought the orbit shots with spinners were very 'feel good' shots. The Ramps also felt great, especially the right but I think that's cause it was coded better.

What I didn't like about hobbit was the u-turn but mainly because it had no sound or lighting effects associated with it which gave it a bland feel. Also, the right VUK hole was a little too tough to hit (lot of bounce outs), might just need some drop dead ball foam? The upper right flipper seemed meaningless but I had some fun left orbit + upper flipper shots to drops and VUK that I really the code can put in some cool jackpot or fun shots. The code overall felt like it needed a lot of work, and that's what concerns me the most; sure it's keefer, but if they're supposed to start coding Pats new game at the end of spring, then that doesn't leave much room for hobbit improvements like WOZ got. Just hope JJP don't pull a stern and abandon code to make room for a new game.

#13 3 years ago

Oh one other thing, hitting the VUK behind the dwarves felt real good to hit especially from the upper flipper. Maybe they can code a mode or jackpot where when the left orbit switches make from a lower right flipper shot, it drops those 2 drop targets and you have to hit it with the upper flipper. Otherwise, those 2 drops stay up all the time even when you hit em. I have a feeling there's a lot to come code wise with those individual drop mechs.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

The beasts pop ups are great and incorporated well. What makes em so good is how the ball reacts to hitting them. They're fun and feel great!.

I enjoyed the pop-ups, the trolls and the rollovers help "fill out" that big playfield. It also helped make the game "faster" when they were active. However, sometimes more is not better. It seems like they wanted to one-up MM with double the trolls. I think 2 would have actually been perfect.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

The code overall felt like it needed a lot of work, and that's what concerns me the most;.

Yeah, not get why the code isn't at like 2.0 status with the massive delay over the last 15 months. Since those were presumably related to Smaug, the pf artwork, etc- one would think the software development would have continued...

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Yeah, not get why the code isn't at like 2.0 status with the massive delay over the last 15 months. Since those were presumably related to Smaug, the pf artwork, etc- one would think the software development would have continued...

I have to agree here...I don't understand why the code isn't further along at this point considering the massive delay.

#16 3 years ago

Did anyone love LoTR when they first played it?
I'm newish to pinball so played it for the first time a year and a half ago and hated it. Just like I hated TWD when I played it first. Now I can't stop playing TWD... its so addictive, and LOTR is easily my favourite game and now in my collection.
Some games take longer to like. Some because of code, some because they just take a while to get into.
GOT is a game that is instantly likeable, but I think most games Steve Ritchie games are by design!

Too hard to compare the 2 now really.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Nahh that's the fun of it. Quickly having to change your focus and shot angles to deal with whatever creature appears. And killing them off IS what helps your progression through the game. Unlike MM where the trolls appear with much fanfare and your anticipation...TH keeps you on your toes with almost rpg-like random attacks. Not a bad concept for a game.

Quoted from Eskaybee:

The beasts pop ups are great and incorporated well. What makes em so good is how the ball reacts to hitting them. They're fun and feel great!
I thought the orbit shots with spinners were very 'feel good' shots. The Ramps also felt great, especially the right but I think that's cause it was coded better.
What I didn't like about hobbit was the u-turn but mainly because it had no sound or lighting effects associated with it which gave it a bland feel. Also, the right VUK hole was a little too tough to hit (lot of bounce outs), might just need some drop dead ball foam? The upper right flipper seemed meaningless but I had some fun left orbit + upper flipper shots to drops and VUK that I really the code can put in some cool jackpot or fun shots. The code overall felt like it needed a lot of work, and that's what concerns me the most; sure it's keefer, but if they're supposed to start coding Pats new game at the end of spring, then that doesn't leave much room for hobbit improvements like WOZ got. Just hope JJP don't pull a stern and abandon code to make room for a new game.

They are just used so much its like they had a one trick game and just overplay it so much. To be fair it may be reduced as coding is developed but right now I felt like it was the majority of the game. I did only spend about an hour on the game as well, however during that hour I could not find a reason for the upper flipper nor would those trolls leave me alone. All in all I like the game and am happy for it to arrive and join the collection.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I have a feeling there's a lot to come code wise with those individual drop mechs.

Agreed. What's the point of having such a unique much touted feature if you don't do cool creative things with it?

This is Keith Johnson and Ted Estes we're talking about here. I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt!

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from FalconPunch:

Did anyone love LoTR when they first played it?

Yes... it kept drawing me in trying to get those various MBs... that I had to have it. Went home and found one to buy that week.

#20 3 years ago

Haha. Yeah 3 x awesome MBs.
Hobbit still doesn't have their programmed in

#21 3 years ago

Why in the heck is the code in TH so far behind? With all this time in delays that is the one thing that should be pretty polished. What a shame. I'll have to play one to make a better judgement but the posts made so far are disappointing.

#22 3 years ago

For those that haven't seen this...check the 3:41:00 mark for beginning of Keith Johnson gameplay and commentary.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

The beasts pop ups are great and incorporated well. What makes em so good is how the ball reacts to hitting them. They're fun and feel great!
I thought the orbit shots with spinners were very 'feel good' shots. The Ramps also felt great, especially the right but I think that's cause it was coded better.
What I didn't like about hobbit was the u-turn but mainly because it had no sound or lighting effects associated with it which gave it a bland feel. Also, the right VUK hole was a little too tough to hit (lot of bounce outs), might just need some drop dead ball foam? The upper right flipper seemed meaningless but I had some fun left orbit + upper flipper shots to drops and VUK that I really the code can put in some cool jackpot or fun shots. The code overall felt like it needed a lot of work, and that's what concerns me the most; sure it's keefer, but if they're supposed to start coding Pats new game at the end of spring, then that doesn't leave much room for hobbit improvements like WOZ got. Just hope JJP don't pull a stern and abandon code to make room for a new game.

After watching the Launch event IFPA held i'm starting to wonder just how long it will take for the constant bashing of those to get old. I sure hope they find a balance in the code where they aren't popping up as much as they did in the video.

#24 3 years ago

I enjoy that 'I can't figure out the rules, therefore there aren't any' seems to be so prevalent. There are two multiballs, with clear rules for starting them and collecting jackpots, in the game already. There are a whole bunch of modes, which have fairly intricate rules for lighting them. There's a cool player-controlled kick from the outlane across the playfield that can end hilariously badly...

It's not like it's a box that doesn't do anything as it stands. Yes, it's incomplete, but not anything like as much as people seem to think.

2 weeks later
#25 3 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Played a newly delivered TH today at Boxcars in Raleigh. It was also the first time I've seen/played a GOT LE - so it gave me a great chance to compare/contrast 2 titles I'm been anxious to see!
First TH.
Gorgeous. I know this has been well documented, but it's really a work of art in person.
Sound- disappointing becuase it was so loud in the arcade, I could barely hear it, outside of some of Smaugs comments.
Gameplay: it was definitely fun. I can't say I know exactly what I was doing (I didn't take the 3-credit college course on the ruleset prior to plunging). I was expecting it to be slow. It didn't feel that slow.... I DID have a bit of trouble making the ramp shots unless it was a 100% clean shot. Even then, they felt like they just trickled over the top.... Need some adjustments here I think and then they'd be much better.
Smaug: way better than I was expecting- I was really disappointed with his big reveal months (years?) ago. However, in the context of the game - it was pretty cool and the callouts (and the few LCD animations I looked up to see) looked really well integrated.
OK, moved over to GoT.
Wow, after playing a half dozen games on TH, GoT felt like I was playing in a shoebox! Obviosly I was moving from a widebody to standard, but what made it feel even more small (almost cramped) was the HUGE real estate that upper playfield takes up.
Also, I didn't really feel like TH was overly slow, but I changed my mind when compared to how blazing fast GOT felt. Wow, that games MOVEs.... And that one monster kickback almost made me jump the fist time it fired that ball back at me. Definitely more heart-thumping play with this game!
Art? Blah. Well-covered topic but it's still makes an impression - and it wasn't a good one for me.
One thing I really liked was the very intuitive ruleset. Between the light show and the DMD cues, I found myself picking up the game pretty fast.
Dragon? Blah. Way more disappointing than Smauh to be honest... Though stern never hyped it as the center piece of the game.
Sound? Too loud ambient to hear much of anything
Quick thoughts?
I enjoyed both, but didn't fall in LOVE with either.
TH was more fun than I expected.
GoT was even slightly more fun, but that huge upper playfield was a turnoff....
I'm going to keep playing both to get a better impression.
Side note:
One game I did play and (unexpectedly!!) nearly fell in LOVE with was TWD! I played one when it first came out and was underwhelmed. Playing again today felt like a new game. I actually found myself dropping more token in this title.... Which I hadn't anticipated!

I went through hell with Zax amusements in Australia after preordering a GoT Le. So many issues and just as many with the second replacement LE. Finally after 3 months I got a refund.
I am now at the crossroads of buying a NiB Hobbit Le which I haven't played.
I have however played solidly the LE of GoT which I sold my Star Trek Pro(heavily modded) Before the Got was returned i took off the glass and completed the game which I recorded. Hear this and IMO this game cannot be beaten but what you'll see is worth trying forever. The game overall I found myself bored and very repetative in just a few months where as with the STP I was still loving it after 18months and also virtually unbeatable, I have many regrets selling STP for GoT Le and thats without the issues of GoT which many have experienced and IMO the quality issues will arise with Ghostbuster as Stern have serious quality control issue and parts if outside the US seem to never arrive.
The GoT theme tune which plays almost constantly is just a downer theme and needs an off switch. Some of the other music during battles are terrific and exciting. Sounds amazing through good quality noise reducing headphones and especially the ram hit(when it worked) I think the upper playfield is really good and much skill is needed for Castle multliball which is difficult to achieve and a massive low scoring disappointment when you finally there.
Today I'm deciding and further researching The Hobbit as well as seeking additional guarantees that I won't go through what I went through with Stern and Zax in way of warranty issues and parts. GoT Le left me $2000 out of pocket in lost business and if your an operator buying NiB any Stern of any model you're really rolling the dice with your business and I now think it's madness to preorder or buy any Stern NiB until the forums are discussing any issues.
If you read the forums here on Pinside about GoT prem and Le when released you'll notice many issues that would turn you off and then best wait for a second hand table with all issues sorted if you were still keen. NiB Stern you've been warned.
I may be wise to wait a few months to hear of similar issue with The Hobbit before my next purchase. Good luck

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from GeminiTwist:

I went through hell with Zax amusements in Australia after preordering a GoT Le. So many issues and just as many with the second replacement LE. Finally after 3 months I got a refund.
I am now at the crossroads of buying a NiB Hobbit Le which I haven't played.
I have however played solidly the LE of GoT which I sold my Star Trek Pro(heavily modded) Before the Got was returned i took off the glass and completed the game which I recorded. Hear this and IMO this game cannot be beaten but what you'll see is worth trying forever. The game overall I found myself bored and very repetative in just a few months where as with the STP I was still loving it after 18months and also virtually unbeatable, I have many regrets selling STP for GoT Le and thats without the issues of GoT which many have experienced and IMO the quality issues will arise with Ghostbuster as Stern have serious quality control issue and parts if outside the US seem to never arrive.
The GoT theme tune which plays almost constantly is just a downer theme and needs an off switch. Some of the other music during battles are terrific and exciting. Sounds amazing through good quality noise reducing headphones and especially the ram hit(when it worked) I think the upper playfield is really good and much skill is needed for Castle multliball which is difficult to achieve and a massive low scoring disappointment when you finally there.
Today I'm deciding and further researching The Hobbit as well as seeking additional guarantees that I won't go through what I went through with Stern and Zax in way of warranty issues and parts. GoT Le left me $2000 out of pocket in lost business and if your an operator buying NiB any Stern of any model you're really rolling the dice with your business and I now think it's madness to preorder or buy any Stern NiB until the forums are discussing any issues.
If you read the forums here on Pinside about GoT prem and Le when released you'll notice many issues that would turn you off and then best wait for a second hand table with all issues sorted if you were still keen. NiB Stern you've been warned.
I may be wise to wait a few months to hear of similar issue with The Hobbit before my next purchase. Good luck

I just received my NIB GOT premium yesterday and I completely disagree with the majority of your post. Mine played pretty nice right out of the box. Thank you Stern! Clear coat is amazing on it.

Game cannot be beaten even with the glass off for you? You are really not a good pinball cheater.

edit-Oh, you beat the game with the glass off but not possible with it on, Huh? You should start a thread asking for the code to be easier for you perhaps?

#27 3 years ago

Hobbit will probably have some issues and it will take time for parts to come. JJP will sort it though. I am getting one from Wayne. I had a few issues with my WOZ at first but it has been rock solid other than a rubber or two for a couple years now.

I'm a bit annoyed at Stern's efforts at maximising profits by minimising costs. I have had a bunch of little things break on my ME and ACDC lately. Dollar wise it is nothing but as an example the switch in the ME snake is broken so it is not really playable. I need to get a new part from the US so there is ~2 weeks with the game down for shipping unless I pay 10x the price of the $5 switch to get it in a week.

Spike worries me with all of those boards which all have to come over from the US. Shipping sucks! Warranty wise I would far rather deal with JJP then the NZ stern distributor but it still takes time.

-3
#28 3 years ago
Quoted from clg:

I have had a bunch of little things break on my ME and ACDC lately.

So you expect nothing to ever break on your machines? I hope you don't drive a car.......

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

I just received my NIB GOT premium yesterday and I completely disagree with the majority of your post. Mine played pretty nice right out of the box. Thank you Stern! Clear coat is amazing on it.

So if yours is in good shape his must be too?

If they replaced a game and gave him a refund something must have been wrong.

I can empathise with him. Stern wants you to deal with the distributor and at least in New Zealand that is not good. My ME had a bad DMD and my distributor's solution was one that was working but warped. I still have my 'bad' one as it was less bad than the replacement. It is a HUGE plus for me that I can deal direct with JJP instead of our distributor (we only have one).

-7
#30 3 years ago
Quoted from clg:

So if yours is in good shape his must be too?
If they replaced a game and gave him a refund something must have been wrong.
I can empathise with him. Stern wants you to deal with the distributor and at least in New Zealand that is not good. My ME had a bad DMD and my distributor's solution was one that was working but warped. I still have my 'bad' one as it was less bad than the replacement. It is a HUGE plus for me that I can deal direct with JJP instead of our distributor (we only have one).

Stop buying our American products and stick with all your NZ/Australian companies that make pins if its such a hassle for you

Edit---It sounds like its your distributor Funking you over not having your back and not Stern.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

So you expect nothing to ever break on your machines? I hope you don't drive a car.......

No I expect them to break but they are breaking with a higher frequency than I would expect for a 'new' game and unlike Williams parts I have to order them from the USA and shipping is slow. Shit breaks I get it but between coil stops and switches just falling apart I'm not impressed.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from clg:

No I expect them to break but they are breaking with a higher frequency than I would expect for a 'new' game and unlike Williams parts I have to order them from the USA and shipping is slow. Shit breaks I get it but between coil stops and switches just falling apart I'm not impressed.

My TRON pro has over 3K plays and zero switch/coil breaks.

Stock more parts if it takes so long to get your orders.

-2
#33 3 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Stop buying our American products and stick with all your NZ/Australian companies that make pins if its such a hassle for you

I will just buy what I am confident in. Right now that is not stern even though they have some great looking games. But hey what do I know us idiots down here don't know what we are doing. You guys are showing the rest of the world how to do things with your elections.

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from clg:

You guys are showing the rest of the world how to do things with your elections.

That is a topic not allowed on Pinside

Quoted from clg:

But hey what do I know us idiots down here don't know what we are doing.

Im going to agree with that..

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from GeminiTwist:

I went through hell with Zax amusements in Australia after preordering a GoT Le. So many issues and just as many with the second replacement LE. Finally after 3 months I got a refund.
I am now at the crossroads of buying a NiB Hobbit Le which I haven't played.
I have however played solidly the LE of GoT which I sold my Star Trek Pro(heavily modded) Before the Got was returned i took off the glass and completed the game which I recorded. Hear this and IMO this game cannot be beaten but what you'll see is worth trying forever. The game overall I found myself bored and very repetative in just a few months where as with the STP I was still loving it after 18months and also virtually unbeatable, I have many regrets selling STP for GoT Le and thats without the issues of GoT which many have experienced and IMO the quality issues will arise with Ghostbuster as Stern have serious quality control issue and parts if outside the US seem to never arrive.
The GoT theme tune which plays almost constantly is just a downer theme and needs an off switch. Some of the other music during battles are terrific and exciting. Sounds amazing through good quality noise reducing headphones and especially the ram hit(when it worked) I think the upper playfield is really good and much skill is needed for Castle multliball which is difficult to achieve and a massive low scoring disappointment when you finally there.
Today I'm deciding and further researching The Hobbit as well as seeking additional guarantees that I won't go through what I went through with Stern and Zax in way of warranty issues and parts. GoT Le left me $2000 out of pocket in lost business and if your an operator buying NiB any Stern of any model you're really rolling the dice with your business and I now think it's madness to preorder or buy any Stern NiB until the forums are discussing any issues.
If you read the forums here on Pinside about GoT prem and Le when released you'll notice many issues that would turn you off and then best wait for a second hand table with all issues sorted if you were still keen. NiB Stern you've been warned.
I may be wise to wait a few months to hear of similar issue with The Hobbit before my next purchase. Good luck

What were the issues & LE #'s

#36 3 years ago

I lift the bonnet more on my B/W than my Sterns. STLE zero issues, IMVE zero issues, TRON same. Mine are HUO so I get that an op will have different issues. Luke's GoT going gangbusters. While Stern has some quality control issues. Don't they all. I'm impressed with them on the whole. As Flank said things will break. It's pinball after all. Sorry you had dramas GT. I wouldn't deal with Zax. Get direct from AMD.

#37 3 years ago

Hey dg, pay no attention to centerflank. He is a Stern nut swinger and doesn't represent anyone's opinion but his own which is off base most of the time. It's people like him that talk tough on the internet that gives Pinside a bad name.

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from TxJay:

Hey dg, pay no attention to centerflank. He is a Stern nut swinger and doesn't represent anyone's opinion but his own which is off base most of the time. It's people like him that talk tough on the internet that gives Pinside a bad name.

You must be new around here

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from GeminiTwist:

I may be wise to wait a few months to hear of similar issue with The Hobbit before my next purchase. Good luck

One things for sure:
JJP has proven they are absolutely no better than Stern at delivering a finished game on day1. They have QC issues (just like Stern) and incomplete code (just like Stern).

And, as long as buyers ignore those things and continue to fall over each other to pay for them (and inexplicably DEFEND the practice!) don't expect anything to change....

Stern will keep on pushing out incomplete games and so will JJP.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from TxJay:

Hey dg, pay no attention to centerflank

I wish everyone could own a Tron, then all would be understood.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

I wish everyone could own a Tron, then all would be understood.

Nothing like a TRON party!

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