(Topic ID: 145752)

The Hobbit has landed...

By mnpinball

8 years ago


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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider bigd1979.
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#251 8 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Ok, I was lucky enough to get to go over MNPinball's pole barn of heaven on Earth tonight. Here's my two cents on the game and a couple of prefaces. #1, I don't have one on order so I have no skin in the game. #2, I am not a big fan of WOZ. #3, I had seen the game before at MGC, but I had never played a single ball on on until tonight so I am not sure what is new and what isn't.
First the visuals and audios. The game looks really nice. I think I have the same hammered bronze powder coat on my LOTR and it looks great and fits the theme very well. Decals were high rez and the screen movie clips were really well done. You may as well have been watching the movie. HD quality and everything popped on the screen. The music was the best part for me. Absolutely outstanding score. It was intense and immersive and the audio quality was fantastic. It was night and day better than the repetitive WOZ theme over and over. Also the lighting, I liked it much better than WOZ too. Even though it fits the theme, I am not a fan of the all out rainbow visual assault in WOZ. I think just because you can, doesn't always mean you should, and in this case, they didn't. The inserts are more torch colors like orange and yellow which fits the theme. It uses other colors well, but only really when it fits, which is nice. Hobbit doesn't just flash all hot pink cause it can for instance.
I played about 3 games tonight. The game was constantly being played in groups of 4 so there was a nice wait to play everytime. My first game ever on the pin I killed it. I put up 780,000+ which I think was the highest score of the night. I saw a lot, but I had the benefit of a couple of friends watching the screen and telling me what to shoot for since I had no idea. When starting the game, there are 4 selectable skill shots. You switch between them with the ring button. They are the inlanes, rollovers, dwarf drop targets and elf drop targets. The rollovers seemed to be the best to go for cause with the right plunge you could roll over all 4 lock letters which would give you a whopping 20,000 points, plus light your locks. The dwarf drop skill shot is nice too cause the drop targets strafe up and down from right to left and the farther left drop target you hit, the more points it was worth. The ring button also did things during gameplay. You can power it up with switch hits and cash it in everytime it was full. Sometimes it was for 1000 points, or lighting Thorin or attempting a backstab. It was easy to recharge the ring, so you wanted to use it when you got it full since there is no limit on how many times per ball you could use it, you just needed to recharge it everytime with several switch hits. After the initial plunge you hit drops and shots to light man, elf and dwarf modes. The mode was then started by hitting the right ramp. Modes were different and had nice visuals. Some you hit drops, sometimes orbits, sometimes ramps, sometimes pop ups, sometimes scoops, sometimes it was an every switch frenzy and sometimes a combo of a couple different shots. For instance for flies and spiders you have to hit the lower left spider pop up 3x, then hit the right scoop to complete. During modes, the left ramp seemed to award more time in the mode. Along with the screen, the mini screen in the book in the upper right hand area of the playfield served as a mode status. It would tell you how much time was left in the mode, points scores in the mode and what the value of shots are currently. Points are pretty minimal on the modes right now though, so I'm not sure they are always worth playing. When lit mode shots are worth 200 for instance, it seemed like it was good to start them while working on multiball, but not really to focus on them.
There are double inlanes on each side and they all have a hurry up switch the ball can roll over. When you do, it will pop up one of 4 creatures to knock down ala trolls in MM. When you knock down them all, you get a creature multiball where all the pop ups start firing ala troll madness in MM. The nice thing is this is stackable with the main multiball, so you can get some great points there. The left outlane has an up post that serves as a temporary ball lock that you fire the ball out of with the ring button. The ball will often be diverted here on purpose at the start of a mode while you are told what to do. You then fire it out and begin the mode. The right outlane has a single vertical stand up target. When the ball drains, if you hit this switch, you have a chance to win your ball back. It's a visual game where there is a bar and a line moves up and down and you need to hit the ring button to stop the line in a highlighted section of the bar. Do it and you continue playing, fail and your ball is over.
The main focus of the game as it was seemed to be to start lock 3 multiball. You roll over the L-O-C-K rollovers to light lock on the right ramp. With each lock you get a nice movie clip to watch and Smaug's head turns and he talks to you. The balls are virtually locked and after hitting all 3 locks, you start multiball. In multiball, the right ramp is lit for a mode, so the first thing you want to do is start a mode to go along with the MB. You can start and finish multiple modes in MB as long as you can keep it going and you can stack with another MB like the pop up creature MB.
The code in general seemed pretty nice. There was a lot going on and a lot to do. I didn't understand it all, but Jack said about 85% of it was there. You collected the different dwarfs and there was a dedicated visual for that. The map of progress was in the upper right hand corner, the honey comb grid of modes is in the center, the hurry up creature pop up list was in the lower left and the lock progress and other status was in the upper left. The middle upper center showed progress towards lighting the man, elf and dwarf modes. None of the other main multiballs seemed to be there yet. There was 3 inserts there for bigger objective multiballs I never saw light. Some of the call outs were a bit repetitive from Smaug during MB and the scoop shots didn't seem to do much at all.
Overall, I really had fun playing The Hobbit. I love the theme, the game is beautiful to look at and even better to hear. The flippers were plenty strong and it was fun to flip. Not counting any of the 4 creature pop ups, there are 11 shots to shoot for; Elf drops, left orbit, left scoop, dwarf drops, left ramp, center captive ball, right ramp, pop bumper shot, right scoop, right orbit and right drops. Like I said, not all of them seem to do much yet during normal play, but the shots feel good. You can back hand either ramp and you can make the left scoop with the upper right flipper. You are going to want to move the posts up as far as you can or this is going to be a long player. With double inlanes on both sides, a center post, left kick back and a way to save your ball ala TOTO on the right drain, there are a lot of chances to continue playing.
I took short video on my phone showing the main multiball stacked with the creature pop-up MB and a mode and the hell that breaks loose when that is going on. It's uploading to youtube now. I'm sure others have more and better video, but it was something just to get an idea of what it looks like if you haven't seen it before. If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask and I would be happy to help if I can.

Awesome review thanks

#254 8 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

The new HD stainless solid machined casters.

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Dammmmmm....... very nice

#258 8 years ago
Quoted from DanT:

Long time lurker, first time poster. I want to fill in some gaps after the comments from Les to add my perspective.
TL, DR -- The Hobbit is a very good/great game with the potential to be perhaps the best game of all time as code matures and the hardware proves durable through long term use. There is room for improvement -- the code was about "85% done" according to Jack, but the missing bits are quite important IMO.
Background:
I have been in the hobby since the early 80s as a kid. I have a small collection -- first game I acquired was a BK. That was the first game I ever played as a kid. I don't consider myself specifically a fan boy for either Stern or JJP camps exclusively -- I am a fan of all things pinball. I enjoy both flow and stop-go pinball. I love the Bally/Williams DMD era since that was my primary era growing up, but I also enjoy the modern Sterns/JJPs as well as older EMs, wood rails and solid states. They are all good in my book. The only pinball I DON'T enjoy is when the machine is mechanically broken, horribly leveled, filthy, eating coins or otherwise unmaintained.
Unlike Les, I DO have skin in this game as bias -- the Hobbit will be my first NIB. I was not a day one believer. I ordered just prior to the first unveiling at 2014 Expo in Chicago where the game was poorly received. At the time I was locking in the early price before it jumped. I was confident based on WOZ that JJP would eventually deliver a fine solution. Having said that, the initial form was underwhelming and I applaud both the community and JJP for all improvements to date. I never hesitated to keep my pre-order, but I will admit that I was a little nervous in the spring when the lawsuit threads appeared. I know I will be waiting a long while for my own machine -- probably another year or more after they start shipping, but I am willing to wait and confident that when I get my game any early manufacturing headaches will be sorted out.
I have had several interactions with the Hobbit over time -- Chicago Expo '14, Michigan Expo '15, MGC, Chicago Expo '15 and MNPinball's party this weekend with the freshest version. I knew from the original playfield CAD drawings that this game would have great flow combined with extreme depth thanks to Keith Johnson's deep rules philosophy. I have never understood the gripes about how this game is "slow" or a yawner as a wide body. It plays reasonably fast -- the ramps and loops are smooth and fun to hit. The upper flipper remains a slight curiosity, but with mature code the purpose will become clear. What matters in my experience is how the game is set up -- reasonable pitch and flipper strength gives the game enough speed to be enjoyable in single ball play and very entertaining in multiballs with a lot going on. The hobbit was set up just fine for the party this weekend. As a contrast, a Shadow at the party had a very flat pitch and played slow and floaty -- completely unlike the reputation that game has earned overall in the hobby.
The current Hobbit experience:
Skill shot -- 4 of them, hardest plunge to weakest:
Dwarf drops -- cycles as single target raised from right to left, F is easily hit with a hard plunge for 2k. Points go higher as you move left. R is 4k and other letters are worth more. I suspect D is 10K, but I didn't see it scored.
Elf drops -- All three are up when selected; LED highlight cycles between the three of them. I suspect hitting the brightest of the three with a timed plunge arcing over the L-O-C-K rollovers will yield more points. Every hit I observed scored 9k.
L-O-C-K -- Good scoring option. Up to 20K for getting all four. Scores looked to be in 4-6k range for one-two and 13k for three. If you miss or don't get all the rollovers on the plunge there are a few more seconds where you might collect additional points with a quick flip. Points scored appeared to decay based on time duration following the plunge, so a late rollover scored less from a flipper or rebound than the immediate plunge pass. Progress is saved towards the main multiball.
Return lanes -- I never saw anyone attempt these. I suspect they would be very good points as this is probably the hardest skill shot of all and doesn't assist on multiball progress. While all 4 lanes look to be lit for points, one is randomly highlighted in bright yellow and probably scores higher.
General play: Modes are qualified in one of six ways -- completing ELF, DWARF, MAN banks along with single shots to the Gandalf and Blibo ramps or the Radagast hole on right. Once qualified, modes start on the right ramp when the Mode cutout is lit red. When ball lock cutout is lit (green) it will always override starting a mode. Modes can be started any time when lit -- before or during multiballs. It didn't seem like all modes were programmed yet, but many were playable. When in modes, it seemed like each started with a 30 second countdown and for some, the left ramp lit for 'Time' in magenta and would add some time to the mode. Most modes had far too many shots to complete in a single attempt. It was not entirely clear if progress was saved on multiple attempts, but I expect it was. When modes are qualified, the left ramp 'Book' cutout is also lit red. Shots on that ramp would turn pages on the Book LCD to select a different qualified mode. The ball was always diverted to the left outlane windlance spot at the start of each mode. The player has a chance to see the rules for the mode. Play begins by launching the ball with the ring button, but the timer started immediately even if the player paused.
Examples of modes:
Bilbo -- One Ring. Single shot to the right ramp to score and end mode. Countdown was from 2,000.
Gandalf -- Don't recall mode name, but points were scored by looping the left ramp.
Gandalf -- Don't recall mode name, but it was a frenzy style mode with 50 points awarded for all switch hits.
Radagast -- Don't recall mode name, but it had three shots to the spider bash on lower left and ended with Radagast shot. 11K to complete everything ... the hold shot was the majority of the points. I think it scored as: 1K, 1K, 2K, 7K.
Radagast -- Don't recall name, but desired shots were left orbit and right orbit. Right pop-ups were blocking shot paths and remained standing after hits. To 'clear' them required a left loop followed by a right loop with pop-ups down to score.
Elf? -- Spiders and Flies -- Again, started with bashing the spider three times, then moved to another major shot. I forget what, but it was not the Radagast hole. Seemed to have more than 4 shots in total. I recall completing at least 5.
Various other modes:
The contract morphed into a rule set that started with primary shots on the Thorin newton ball and the left hole. I don't recall further progression.
Another mode scored on drop hits. The targets were staggered with ExL / DxAxF / MxN up and worth points while the remainder were down and not.
Most shot based modes followed a scoring progression where additional successive shots scored more points. All modes had clear indicators in flickering yellow/orange highlights to indicate valuable shots. Modes were repeatable -- even ones where it seemed the player had successfully completed them once, so take note when selecting which one to play.
Monster hurry-ups:
Each rollover when lit would trigger a corresponding pop-up. At game start all are fully qualfied. Successfully hitting the hurry up would light that monster's wedge in yellow to indicate completion. After each attempt, two additional rollovers of the return lane were necessary to reattempt the hurry up. The inner lanes with ramp feeds matched the high pop-ups blocking the ramps. The outer lanes matched the lower pop-ups. Usually these were harder to start and collect. When all 4 hurry-ups are completed, a two ball multiball started and the monster pop-ups would raise in varying combinations -- all four, singly, and in patterns of pairs. During the multiball they would be highlighted with red wedges. One problem with the current rules is that the difficulty of this multiball never increased. Complete 4 hurry-ups again and you'd immediately get the 2 ball multi going again. The ball save at the start of the hurry up multiball was generous -- maybe 8 seconds or so. It was not entirely clear to me how much time was remaining on the ball save. I suspect the Arkenstone insert was flashing but it was hard to see and I was more focused on bashing the monsters instead when the multiball started.
Main multiball:
Complete L-O-C-K rollovers to start. First time all three locks are qualified so the player can shoot right ramp three times in a row and get the MB going. Completing the third lock triggered a Jackpot call out before the multiball started. I assume this is a hint to casual players that something very good is about to happen. The main multiball also had a ball save, but it seemed shorter to me ... maybe 4-5 seconds. During the main multiball, major shots are lit with a fiery red/yellow shimmer effect. One gripe with the current code is that it didn't seem to have rules for progression and ultimately completion. I could hit lots of shots and keep the MB going, but I was never able to clearly advance further in the game. The shots would extinguish when hit and eventually other shots would instead be lit. The exact behavior was unclear to me while juggling 3-4 balls in play.
Second round of main MB requires qualifiying L-O-C-K again three times in total. The player can complete LOCK multiple times in a row and collect on the right ramp successively. MB rules and light show were the same on further attempts. Third round again required qualifying L-O-C-K but it appeared that each lock had to be collected before earning the next one.
Stacking of modes, monster hurry-up multiball and main multiball were all possible and could be done in any order.
No one at the party seemed to 'complete' any multiball regardless of skill at hitting the important shots. I suspect more code is needed for complex game objectives.
Ring button: Again, the code for this feature doesn't appear to be complete. At present it takes a small number of switch hits -- maybe 8-10 -- to light the ring. Once lit it enables three possible awards: points (starting at 1,000 and slowly advancing by 100 for many more switch hits), light Thorin or attempt backstab. I never tried or saw anyone else attempt or complete a backstab, but my guess is that it would raise one of the top two pop-ups and score on a ramp hit diverted in a U return to strike the appropriate pop up monster in the back. My strategy after a few games was to simply hit the ring as soon as possible once it became lit and accept points or whatever award was available. There didn't seem to be an increase in difficulty requiring a larger number of hits to requalify the ring, and it could be reused many times per ball. I consider this a small weakness in the current, immature rules.
A final significant use of the ring was the mini-ball save game. When the ring was lit and the ball drained on the right outlane. A minor nudge could rebound and hit the Beorn backwards stand-up. This enables a ring video mode on the left edge of the screen. The object was to press the button at a moment when the red line indicator was in a highlighted blue zone. Succeed and the player's ball is saved and replunged automatically. Miss and the ball is over. I was not entirely clear on the timing for the mini-game -- did the game have to start and be completed successfully entirely before the ball reached a trough switch or not. I am not sure. We did have quite a few successful restarts during the party.
One disappointment with the ring button is that the current rule set doesn't appear to enable the orbit magnets for the subway or the pop bumper river gate. I expect more player interaction to be available eventually with more mature code.
As others have mentioned, the HD graphics are crisp and well done. Every mode seemed to have unique music and video effects. The stingers to emphasize good shots were well implemented. My immediate impression after playing a couple games was that I need to invest in a couple cameras and stands Papa PinballTV style so that I can see exactly what is going on in the game. It's easy to watch the orchestration of video, sound and shots when others are playing, but much harder to absorb when you are standing at the flippers and keeping the ball(s) alive. I bet the audio tracks would be even better with headphones or in a quiet room with no other distractions. There was a lot going on at the party, so it was slightly challenging to zero in on a pure Hobbit-only experience.
Miscellaneous thoughts:
The playfield was propped up at one point and Jack talked about the hardware under the hood. There is a LOT going on down there. I know that the game is physically packed with everything physically possible and it would be very hard to squeeze in something else. Overall I think this is a big plus, but I am also slightly concerned about long term playfield durability and possible warping due to the excessive hardware.
MNPinball mentioned first hand experience during the weekend when he had to service the Smaug assembly. It was easy to extract by removing just three screws. The placement of all physical gear seems well thought out.
The GI lighting and four additional spotlights (two per side) make for a very well-lit playfield.
The game had some mechanical issues during extended play. The left VUK became increasingly unreliable and sometimes required 4-5 attempts to clear a ball. The O rollover was a fussy switch and was generally harder to collect than the other rollover spots. The upper right pop-up sometimes failed to raise -- sometimes it would auto-score hits and other times it could not be collected at all. Flippers remained generally strong throughout the party.

Holy review .... heck of a first post . Thanks for the detailed overview

1 week later
#478 8 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Far more toys? Where? Maybe RZ has more stationary plastic toys then TH but certainly not actual toys that interact with the ball or player. Sorry but RZ doesn't really have any interesting toys / features in my opinion to justify it's $6k price tag. RZ also just looks cheap next to TH. That's not to say RZ looks bad (it certianly doesn't) but TH is on a different level.
Hobbit
1. 11 drop targets
2. Interactive Smaug dragon toy with ball lock, light up eyes / mouth , motorized mouth synced to audio
3. 3 way subway
4. LCD book toy
5. 4 troll pop ups
6. Kickback
7. Action button
8. 2 magnets
9. Center ramp divertor
RZ
1. Mini playfield with an odd shot
2. 1 drop target
3. ? That's it

The hobbit and lots of other pins have alot more than rz but you did forget a few I believe on rz.
The upper playfield with bash toy that swings.
Drop target
A robot that moves and follows the ball but I guess really dont contact the ball.
Apparently theres a up post in the back somewhere that acts as a diverter.
A living dead girl model that does some lighting effects but really dont touch the ball.

Thats really about it other than 3 wild pops , 4 slings and vuk . It also has 3 stationary toys/decor just for looks tho. It has some cool things but your right as it is vary baren compared to most pins of the 90s and after. Im sure it will play fast and brutal but could get boring very quickly due to not much going on , or it cld be fun and fast like many older pins but with a cool deep ruleset. Only time will tell but its definitely not on jersey jacks pinball level imo.

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