(Topic ID: 145752)

The Hobbit has landed...


By mnpinball

3 years ago



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  • 494 posts
  • 165 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by dannunz
  • Topic is favorited by 21 Pinsiders

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There are 494 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 10.
21
#351 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Is it challenging to match the mouth's movement to the speech?

There is art to it. I provided syllable timings to Ted. Ted is a veteran of doing this for other Pat projects and Ted is the puppeteer for Smaug. He will get back to it when some other things are done. I'm sure that there will be more synchronized Smaug speech and all of it will be better than what is in the build now. That's easy for me to say

#352 3 years ago

Thanks for the info David!

#353 3 years ago

The Hobbit looks to be a million times better than WoZ !

#354 3 years ago

Great write-ups.
Thanks much

#355 3 years ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

That's easy for me to say

That's because you already did a ton of work!

#356 3 years ago

I feel like more sound engineering went into TH than some recent movies Ive seen....

#357 3 years ago

I believe the Hobbit will easily fit into a new and different category of game than any of its predecessors. Granted, it has a playfield and pinballs, but with its two LED screens, extraordinary art, and non-looping music, it simply does not fit into the same concept or category as GOT, MM, or any other game before it. If this will become a "player's game" remains to be seen. However, it represents both an acknowledgement to previous legacy games as well as the best current example of innovation and not simply stagnant complacency. The bottom line is that this game should be viewed from and judged from a different perspective and a different level of expectations. In short, the game has changed.

#358 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

The Hobbit looks to be a million times better than WoZ !

I'm not a Hobbit fan but the theme immediately makes it a million times times better.

#359 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

The Hobbit looks to be a million times better than WoZ !

And Woz is a million times better than everything else, including Ac/dc?

Damn, Hobbit will be the best ever.

#360 3 years ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

There are 127 Smaug callouts

One hundred and twenty seven for Smaug alone! I know the music, fx, and dialog are going to set a new bar - but damn!

#361 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And Woz is a million times better than everything else, including Ac/dc?

I'll give you AC/DC, but everything else? Man its just the theme of WOZ that I can't take but I have to admit the gameplay is damn fun.

#362 3 years ago

WOZ and AC/DC are both outstanding games but for different reasons. The music in AC/DC, the edgy tone, and some of the specific shots are top notch. With a headphone jack and upgraded lighting, AC/ DC
borders on orgasmic. WOZ beckons to a different crowd, perspective, and demographic. My non-pinball nerd, high powered corporate sister owns a WOZ. The game has beautiful lighting, an innovative LED screen, two upper playfields, and outstanding art. I suspect only a few Pinsiders would value a WOZ and AC/DC equally. Personally, I covet both.

#363 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

One hundred and twenty seven for Smaug alone! I know the music, fx, and dialog are going to set a new bar - but damn!

David tell them how many callouts you gave them!

#364 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I'll give you AC/DC, but everything else? Man its just the theme of WOZ that I can't take but I have to admit the gameplay is damn fun.

I'm just F ing with McCune. But it is better than Ac/dc despite the theme and music!

#365 3 years ago

I still don't see Stern pushing any major innovation. Look at WOZ/Hobbit, and how those games have changed our tastes and expectations of mainstream designers and manufacturers. I can name a few just for Hobbit that I would have never dreamed of. A user controlled kickback? Targets in the OUTLANES? I mean come on, that's awesome!!

#366 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

A user controlled kickback?

Defender. 1982. The pinball machine, not the video game.

Devil Riders. 1984 by Zaccaria had the crazy flap kickbacks.

Not that Hobbit isn't bringing innovation, but user controlled kickbacks have been around a while.

#367 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I still don't see Stern pushing any major innovation. Look at WOZ/Hobbit, and how those games have changed our tastes and expectations of mainstream designers and manufacturers. I can name a few just for Hobbit that I would have never dreamed of. A user controlled kickback? Targets in the OUTLANES? I mean come on, that's awesome!!

I hear ya. Stern is making some good, fun and quality games but for the price they should be offering more in terms of innovation (at least put a Color DMD in the games), features / toys (look at their recent releases...) and overall just put more effort and polish into their games. How about offering an LE plaque that doesn't look cheesy and cheap? How about including the $400 aftermarket topper with the LE to help justify the $1500 premium over the model below? Just offer value.

With a JJP game you are getting value not only in terms of features but also in terms of code, audio and animation work as seen by Keith's, Ted's, David's and JP's work. I wouldn't be surprised when all is said and done with TH's code that more work went into its rules, animations and audio then Sterns past 3 titles combined.

Update: Looks like yet another update for WOZ is on the way based on a recent post here. Just another example of JJP offering value (regular code updates) and continuing to improve their games.

#368 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I wouldn't be surprised when all is said and done

That Stern will be making games much longer that JJP. People can not afford 9K games with no other alternative for a cheaper game.

The fact is, if you want JJP to be around you had better start paying 12 to 15K for their games! Or, JJP starts making cheaper games and gets them out the door faster. One of the two will have to happen.

#369 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I still don't see Stern pushing any major innovation.

Sterns "innovation" is in the field of "speed to market" and sub-$9K-pinball

Compare the 2 "XXXXXXX has landed" threads here in pinside: TH vs GoTLE
One has everyone going ga-ga (rightly so) over ONE prototype machine that shipped.
The other has an avalanche of people actually receiving machines they recently paid for.

We need Stern's kinds of "innovation" in the hobby. Or else, WTF would be talking about in the 2-4 year gap between JJP announcing games and actually delivering them.

14
#370 3 years ago

Sterns innovation was their ability to stay alive in the pinball downturn and remain profitable.

-11
#371 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Update: Looks like yet another update for WOZ is on the way based on a recent post here.

Somebody should start a new hashtag campaign ... #WheresthecodeJJP?

Remember folks, don't buy them until the code is finished!

#372 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Somebody should start a new hashtag campaign ... #WheresthecodeJJP?
Remember folks, don't buy them until the code is finished!

The code has been finished on woz for a year or so?

12
#373 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Somebody should start a new hashtag campaign ... #WheresthecodeJJP?
Remember folks, don't buy them until the code is finished!

The code support for WOZ has been incredible. When the game started to ship Keith and Ted put updates out monthly, sometimes twice a month for over 6 months. The latest code updates are just improving upon what was already a very impressive and deep ruleset. These latest updates are also adding new features.

#WheresthecodeJJP? No, JJP offers the best code support in pinball and you won't be waiting 6+ months or years waiting for an update.

#374 3 years ago

What I want to know is, what is the main goal in the hobbit. Are you trying to get the arkenstone? Kill the dragon? Arkenstone and the dragon?

#375 3 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

The code has been finished on woz for a year or so?

Yes, but the awesome thing is JJP and Keith keep banging away at it to make it even better. Definitely something that didn't have to happen!

#376 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

No, JJP offers the best code support in pinball and you won't be waiting 6+ months or years waiting for an update.

But you may be waiting 3 years for your game.

#377 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

But you may be waiting 3 years for your game.

How is TBL coming along?

#378 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

But you may be waiting 3 years for your game.

When dropping $7500+ on a pinball machine of all things I don't mind waiting 3 years for a game that will be loaded and offers incredible code support Haste makes waste.

#379 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Somebody should start a new hashtag campaign ... #WheresthecodeJJP?

Perhaps. But a more fitting hashtag campaign would be #WheresthepinJJP? This month marks the two year anniversary of when I initially placed my order for TH. Pin looks awesome, but even I am getting anxious.

#380 3 years ago

The hobbit confirmed when JJP makes a pin with a lay out i love and a theme that i dream off, i have to sell everything i have. Cause than i need to have one.

You only live once. And man.... Look at those pins JJP makes.... Fantastic!

#381 3 years ago

Rather than put money down on a game that didn't exist I did it the other way. I went to see it at a Christmas party last year and got impressed. Then at Pintastic I saw it was coming together. Now with the videos and write ups I can make a decision about it being a game I want to own one.

I like my way better.

#382 3 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

The code has been finished on woz for a year or so?

Well, I thought the code was done on my Woz, like 3 times. I was satisfied with the code, then another update comes and makes it better, then another and another. It's awesome, and for me the game just gets better and better. I think this next update will be the last, but who knows? I wouldn't bank on it, but I will enjoy it !

#383 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

#WheresthecodeJJP? No, JJP offers the best code support in pinball and you won't be waiting 6+ months or years waiting for an update.

That's great except at this point your waiting 4 years for your JJP game! Lets be honest if JJP was putting games out at even 1/4 the pace Stern was putting them out JJP would also be struggling with unfinished code.

#384 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

That's great except at this point your waiting 4 years for your JJP game! Lets be honest if JJP was putting games out at even 1/4 the pace Stern was putting them out JJP would also be struggling with unfinished code.

This seems to be true, apparently Stern can design, build and ship before code is ready - JJP seems to have the opposite problem. On the plus side - hobbit is lookin' real nice Clark...reeeaal nice.

#385 3 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

This seems to be true, apparently Stern can design, build and ship before code is ready - JJP seems to have the opposite problem. On the plus side - hobbit is lookin' real nice Clark...reeeaal nice.

I dropped out of my Hobbit order almost 1 year ago mostly for financial reasons, but I must say I'm bummed my spot is gone because the game is looking really good!!

#386 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I still don't see Stern pushing any major innovation. Look at WOZ/Hobbit, and how those games have changed our tastes and expectations of mainstream designers and manufacturers. I can name a few just for Hobbit that I would have never dreamed of. A user controlled kickback? Targets in the OUTLANES? I mean come on, that's awesome!!

They really are not innovative. A little different, but not innovative. Innovative means something that is revolutionary that completely changes the game. A new display does not do that. P2K was innovative. It was unlike anything that was done before. P3 is innovative. JJP just has a new display. Not much different than when DE introduced checkpoint with a DMD.

11
#387 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I dropped out of my Hobbit order almost 1 year ago mostly for financial reasons, but I must say I'm bummed my spot is gone because the game is looking really good!!

Wishing you financial success in the next year so that your able to get this pin.
Cheers

10
#388 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

They really are not innovative. A little different, but not innovative. Innovative means something that is revolutionary that completely changes the game. A new display does not do that. P2K was innovative. It was unlike anything that was done before. P3 is innovative. JJP just has a new display. Not much different than when DE introduced Checkpoint with a DMD.

How about a standardized platform with the ability to roll forward with technology indefinitely insuring core parts availability for the foreseeable future?

Yeah. None of that is innovative. Have luck finding a working prism card in a few years.

#389 3 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Yes, but the awesome thing is JJP and Keith keep banging away at it to make it even better. Definitely something that didn't have to happen!

With the window to work in ( years ) its not really that amazing.
You could actually grow some trees to use in the cabinet of the game you ordered considering the wait.

10
#390 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

How about a standardized platform with the ability to roll forward with technology indefinitely insuring core parts availability for the foreseeable future?
Yeah. None of that is innovative. Have luck finding a working prism card in a few years.

Isn't WOZ the first game with RGB LEDs too (GI and Inserts!)? The display is innovative, not sure why some think it isn't. The direct print cabinet was innovative. Everything about the game is pretty darn innovative.

At the time it sucked waiting for my game to arrive, but looking back it is pretty, pretty, pretty impressive what JJP has accomplished. They built and delivered a game from the ground up with a ton of custom components, and yes innovation, in about 3 years. That is impressive when you see what all goes into a game.

#391 3 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

With the window to work in ( years ) its not really that amazing.
You could actually grow some trees to use in the cabinet of the game you ordered considering the wait.

If Stern can crank out 4 titles a year while continuing to strip down their games and keep prices high then why does it take them 2 years (some games longer, if ever) to complete code for a game?

None of us, other then Keith and Ted, know just how much code work has gone into WOZ. Considering the games large feature set, HD animations, sound work, multiple devices to code for and LCD intergration I'm sure it's more then any other pin to date. I wouldn't be surprised if more work as gone into WOZ's code then Stern's past 3 titles combined. The fact that Stern takes as long as they do to release code updates for games that offer 1/2 the amount that WOZ does isn't welcoming. Stern's programmers do an amazing job but it seems like they are not given enough time to work on code by management...hence one of the downsides of putting 4 titles out a year.

I'll take quality over quantity any day and quality (code, value) is something Stern cannot consistently hit on with each of their titles.

From Keith Johnson's Pinball Magaize interview. All of Keith's comments below make JJP's commitment to WOZ's code even more impressive considering the complexity over other platforms.

"PM: Is it very different to program a display effect now than when you were programming dot matrix displays?
KJ: It’s more complex. With dot matrix animations all you do is say, “Here’s a block of graphics I want to show, whether it’s for full screen or part of the screen, and then put in some text down there.” With what we do, we have a lot more to think about. There’s a lot that needs to get onto the screen and it takes a lot of time to send data to the graphics card before it gets displayed."

"The thing that took up the most time by far was working on the display effects. It’s just a lot of work. No discredit to JP, because he does great work, but it’s just a fact that it takes a while to implement effects, get them to interact with the ball the right way and make sure that they don’t interrupt everything else that is running ."

"Basically everything that we’ve done in this game has probably been an order of magnitude higher than anything else that has ever been done before. We go from lamps that can have three different shades to LED, that can have 16,000,000 different shades. We go from having a 128 x 32 dotmatrix display with 12 shades of orange to a 1360 x 768 monitor with again 16,000,000 different colors. It has been a lot to take on. But I think it’s worth it. The product is good. People like the product and I think we’re going to be in pretty good shape."

#392 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'll take quality over quantity any day and quality (code, value) is something Stern cannot consistently hit on with each of their titles.

Not sure how much value is in a 8~9 grand pinball machine that takes years to get to market but if JJP can make it a successful business model more power to them. Don't get too bent not everyone gushes over it. It should be a fun game to play once in the wild and hopefully they can make them faster and have a better time to market.

As to Stern they have their own business model , products and is a proven survivor thru years in the industry, good and bad.
Stern is more of a business and JJP a boutique based on products offered and deliver time.

(Its all good)

#393 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

How about a standardized platform with the ability to roll forward with technology indefinitely insuring core parts availability for the foreseeable future?
Yeah. None of that is innovative. Have luck finding a working prism card in a few years.

Prism card??? Who cares about a prism card??? Anyone can run the entire Pinball 2000 platform off any PC......Did you miss that leak? I certainly have ready to go at anytime. Take a look at every emulator out there, don't underestimate the power of the technology to come, JJP system will be a dinosaur in a few years......If anyone should know that, it's you.

13
#394 3 years ago

Why does Mc Cune hate JJP so much? Gets a bit old after a while.

#395 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

If Stern can crank out 4 titles a year while continuing to strip down their games and keep prices high then why does it take them 2 years (some games longer, if ever) to complete code for a game?

Because it reduces cost and they can get away with it. It seems their half finished games are selling well.

Stern isn't here to revolutionize the pinball industry, they're leaving that to JJP and others. They can lean back and watch what JJP does e.g. with the LCD. If they think it adds value and reduces cost mid term (LCDs are notably cheaper than DMDs, but more work intense to bring to life) they will take that path.
When they finally do switch to LCD they will most likely still be cranking out at least 3 games per year while JJP will still struggle to make 3 machines in a decade. After an additional three years Stern will have put out at least 10 LCD games while JJP will have only 3 LCD games out...guess who will probably be selling more games...

And even though I like JJP a lot, they still have to prove that they can make a game I like. The LCD does not impress me on WoZ as I don't connect to the gameplay at all. TH seems to fit my taste much better, so I'm really curious to see if it will "do it" for me.

#396 3 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

That Stern will be making games much longer that JJP. People can not afford 9K games with no other alternative for a cheaper game.
The fact is, if you want JJP to be around you had better start paying 12 to 15K for their games! Or, JJP starts making cheaper games and gets them out the door faster. One of the two will have to happen.

This. Accept people can afford 9K pins, not everyone. And there will be pins for the masses and pins for the high end collector. JJP is making high-end collector pins but not charging what he should. I think all of these guys just arbitrarily price their pins.

#397 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Prism card??? Who cares about a prism card??? Anyone can run the entire Pinball 2000 platform off any PC......Did you miss that leak? I certainly have ready to go at anytime. Take a look at every emulator out there, don't underestimate the power of the technology to come, JJP system will be a dinosaur in a few years......If anyone should know that, it's you.

You missed the point about the platform being indefinitely upgradable. So no it won't be a dinosaur. Now that being said I didn't miss the leak. I just don't give it credence until it's back available again from legit sources.

#398 3 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

Why does Mc Cune hate JJP so much? Gets a bit old after a while.

Give me a break. Why do you care what I post? If you don't like it ignore me. It is really that easy. I have never said I hate JJP ever!

Remember J.I.M ( Just Ignore Me)

#399 3 years ago

What is it with every Hobbit thread turning into a JJP bitchfest? Can't we just be excited about this pin finally shipping? I'm eagerly awaiting the first post by someone actually getting one!

#400 3 years ago
Quoted from bjorg:

What is it with every Hobbit thread turning into a JJP bitchfest? Can't we just be excited about this pin finally shipping? I'm eagerly awaiting the first post by someone actually getting one!

May have something to do with the usual JJP haters landing in every post to spread their good cheer....

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