(Topic ID: 106501)

The Hobbit "Book Toy"


By TaTa

5 years ago



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  • 194 posts
  • 82 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by labnip
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 194 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 5 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

No game is perfect...

Have you seen TBL? DP, nailed it!!!

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from fuko:

If you think about it, the book makes no sense. It serves no purpose, blocks the view into some nice looking pops, and most certainly adds some cost to the build.
Those of us who were along for the ride during WOZ know that Jack likes to throw curve balls. He is a consummate showman, and like all good showmen likes to save something for the last. I don't think we have seen the final version of this game yet.

Anything is possible!! However, if this is the case .. I would chalk this up to even yet another very poor business decision. People are considering pulling their orders and jumping to TBL or Wrath of Olympus or several other options. Why would you wait nearly 2 years ... until expo .. arguably the biggest pinball week of the year, to hold back on something awesome like an lcd there and instead intentionally disappoint people with the book? Why would you not WOW folks in every way you possibly can? What would be the point of holding back for just 2 more months?

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

I actually like the book though! A nice little nod to Tolkien. I just think the book should be smaller and placed in a much less prominent place.

I think CraZ4pin has been a bit over the top with his distain for JJP lately, but I actually like the idea he presents here. The book itself is not bad, but would be better served if scaled down and located in a better location (maybe mounted over the top of the shooter lane so as the pinball is launched it is symbolic of beginning your journey).

Scott

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think the switches below the book say "switch mode". If so, I'll wager the book will be replaced with an LCD screen that displays the mode you're on in the form of a page. Hit the switches to flip the pages right and left.

The problem with an LCD screen is that the location of the book is in prime "air ball" territory. They would need to have a sneeze guard or some type of protective shield to protect the screen. I don't even think "Gorilla glass" would hold up all that well to a steel ball. Plus, a digital screen lacks the timeless charm of a regular book. My guess is that an LCD screen was considered but the idea was tossed out when discussing the pros/cons and the costs involved.

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from toyboy6:

I think CraZ4pin has been a bit over the top with his distain for JJP lately, but I actually like the idea he presents here. The book itself is not bad, but would be better served if scaled down and located in a better location (maybe mounted over the top of the shooter lane so as the pinball is launched it is symbolic of beginning your journey).
Scott

Thank you. I think.

Actually, what you describe is exactly what I was thinking. Something on the size of the Toto figure in Ruby Red WOZ, and right over the shooter lane. That would be a nice little touch.

#56 5 years ago

I'm thinking that the book has to be a placeholder at this point. That's my hope at least.

Below is picture of some of the games playfield plastics that Jack released months ago. We can see the bag end plastic towards the left side of the picture. The plastic in the picture appears to look slightly different then the one in the game at expo.

plastic.JPG

Also, the latest CAD drawing of the playfield says "Bag End" in that area. If JJP was intending to use this area as a spot for a book wouldn't they have just referenced it as "Book" and not "Band End"?

bag end area.JPG

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

TH first pinball to actually get modded by removing stuff....that book has to go.

I hear you can fix it by bringing the temp up to 451° Fahrenheit

#58 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Anything is possible!! However, if this is the case .. I would chalk this up to even yet another very poor business decision. People are considering pulling their orders and jumping to TBL or Wrath of Olympus or several other options. Why would you wait nearly 2 years ... until expo .. arguably the biggest pinball week of the year, to hold back on something awesome like an lcd there and instead intentionally disappoint people with the book? Why would you not WOW folks in every way you possibly can? What would be the point of holding back for just 2 more months?

Perhaps the rationale is put the book in - if people like it (or are ok with it) we are done. If they aren't happy we tweak a bit more. People will be buying THLE over the next year. If they show an improved model in a few months they will get more sales from people that my have decided not to.

#59 5 years ago

Can they at least start from the first page like normal people.

#60 5 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Perhaps the rationale is put the book in - if people like it (or are ok with it) we are done. If they aren't happy we tweak a bit more. People will be buying THLE for the next year. If they show an improved model in a few months they will get more sales from people that my have decided not to.

Possibly. Or it's possible the toy that goes there (lcd or otherwise) still has issues that have not been worked out thoroughly (it just wasn't ready in time for expo). That could be the same reason they put a standard lockdown bar on this game instead of with the button (perhaps that mech still has issues being worked out.)

#61 5 years ago
Quoted from Shado1w:

Can they at least start from the first page like normal people.

If you think of each mode as a chapter in the book, then it makes sense to start in the middle because the two targets to switch modes will move you forward and backwards through the book.

#62 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

The problem with an LCD screen is that the location of the book is in prime "air ball" territory. They would need to have a sneeze guard or some type of protective shield to protect the screen. I don't even think "Gorilla glass" would hold up all that well to a steel ball. Plus, a digital screen lacks the timeless charm of a regular book. My guess is that an LCD screen was considered but the idea was tossed out when discussing the pros/cons and the costs involved.

It probably wouldn't be too difficult to put the LCD inside the book with a plastic protector over it.

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I didn't think much at first becasue your picture has no scale. I just saw Skypilot's picture though, and this thing looks freaking horrendus...it's massive.

303826-i.jpg 55 KB

I wish those up kicker tubes were wireforms. They block the view, too.

#64 5 years ago

How about replacing the book with an over-sized ring with a controlled LED in it to make it glow? Integrates with the theme, would look much better than the book and would allow the player to see into the pops.

imgres.jpg
#65 5 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

I wish those up kicker tubes were wireforms. They block the view, too.

Agree. In the whitewood that was the case.

wireform vuk.jpg

#66 5 years ago

Ugh - so much better using wireforms! WHY was this changed?!

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from S37VEN:

How about replacing the book with an over-sized ring with a controlled LED in it to make it glow? Integrates with the theme, would look much better than the book and would allow the player to see into the pops.

That does sound cool, but size might be too much of an issue. One bracelet to rule them all, just does not have the right ring to it.

#68 5 years ago

Sting.jpg

How about this instead?

#69 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I hear you can fix it by bringing the temp up to 451° Fahrenheit

It was a pleasure to burn...

When TaTa and I were at the JJP open house in August we were told by someone on the JJP team during a tour of the warehouse that there would be an LCD screen (approximately 5") that would display "something" on the left, Bag End part of the playfield. Furthermore, he explained that the same technology that powered the crystal ball in WOZ would be employed in THLE (though the screen would be larger and display a wider array of images). It's the one part of the game that has me a bit disappointed at this stage. I'm hoping for more...

On an unrelated note, has there been any indication what is between the speaker panels on the top of the backbox? I haven't a clue.

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

It was a pleasure to burn...
When TaTa and I were at the JJP open house in August we were told by someone on the JJP team during a tour of the warehouse that there would be an LCD screen (approximately 5") that would display "something" on the left, Bag End part of the playfield. Furthermore, he explained that the same technology that powered the crystal ball in WOZ would be employed in THLE (though the screen would be larger and display a wider array of images). It's the one part of the game that has me a bit disappointed at this stage. I'm hoping for more...

Me too. I don't like the book toy that's in there. A 5" LCD in the book (or Bag End) would seal the deal for me.

Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

On an unrelated note, has there been any indication what is between the speaker panels on the top of the backbox? I haven't a clue.

I thought Jack said at the seminar that it was nothing, just a placeholder for the future.

--Luke

#71 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

It was a pleasure to burn...
When TaTa and I were at the JJP open house in August we were told by someone on the JJP team during a tour of the warehouse that there would be an LCD screen (approximately 5") that would display "something" on the left, Bag End part of the playfield. Furthermore, he explained that the same technology that powered the crystal ball in WOZ would be employed in THLE (though the screen would be larger and display a wider array of images). It's the one part of the game that has me a bit disappointed at this stage. I'm hoping for more...
On an unrelated note, has there been any indication what is between the speaker panels on the top of the backbox? I haven't a clue.

Captain you have a friend by the name of TaTa why does this not surprise me.As for things missing that you were told would be there this is a themed game multi models now cutting corners. Originally JJP game were going to be original theme and TH was a single LE model.

#72 5 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Captain you have a friend by the name of TaTa why does this not surprise me.As for things missing that you were told would be there this is a themed game multi models now cutting corners. Originally JJP game were going to be original theme and TH was a single LE model.

TH was never announced as a single LE model. The LE was just announced first. And there is still just one LE. The other models are unlimited. As for cutting corners, even if you think it's true for TH, it still has double the pinball features of, say, STLE. 11 controlled drop targets (a *gameplay* feature that actually interacts with the ball, not a cheap bright LED or plastic toy model) is pretty significant. (By comparison, ST has, oh yeah, 1 drop target to shoot at, over and over again). Full rgb lighting, 26" hi-def display, 7-driver 2.1-channel sound system, etc. So who is cutting corners here? sheesh

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

TH was never announced as a single LE model. The LE was just announced first. And there is still just one LE. The other models are unlimited. As for cutting corners, even if you think it's true for TH, it still has double the pinball features of, say, STLE. 11 controlled drop targets (a *gameplay* feature that actually interacts with the ball, not a cheap bright LED or plastic toy model) is pretty significant. (By comparison, ST has, oh yeah, 1 drop target to shoot at, over and over again). Full rgb lighting, 26" hi-def display, 7-driver 2.1-channel sound system, etc. So who is cutting corners here? sheesh

I would not be fool enough to pay LE prices for ST Mustang or TWD but that does not make TH worth the price.

#74 5 years ago

I'm thinking the ideas about the book toy area as a 5" display representing a book is something we may very well see in the game. That seems to go well with the inserts below the Bag End area as well as the wood look on the playfield plastic near it that may represent Bilbo's desk.

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

TH was never announced as a single LE model. The LE was just announced first. And there is still just one LE.

No and NO!! Lie. There was absolutely a discussion on the JJP Google forum regarding why folks should pre-order Hobbit LE in case there would be another "special" edition down the line. Jack absolutely did state something to the effect that he wouldn't do it again, the 75th WOZ edition was a unique case, and there would be only the one limited edition for Hobbit. I would so go find that discussion on the Google forum if I was still on there (and if Jack hasn't now deleted it.)

And the Smaug Edition is absolutely a limited edition. How can you possibly consider it anything else? You have only until December 31 to order one ... that's IT ... after that they will not make another one. How can you not consider that "limited"?

Excuses excuses excuses ...

#76 5 years ago

Forget TH, go with TBL instead.

#77 5 years ago

JJP made a huge mistake by going with the same designer for the first two games... Will say no more in an effort to be nice.

#78 5 years ago

So why wouldn't jack just say, there will be something else in the place of the book, but maybe it wasn't ready in time, or even say smaug will have more mountains around him ect. Probably because if there were plans to put more stuff on there he would have?

#79 5 years ago

Sadly this might be the best thing on the table.

#80 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

JJP made a huge mistake by going with the same designer for the first two games... Will say no more in an effort to be nice.

+1

#81 5 years ago

Frankly, I'm a bit underwhelmed at some of the photos. It seems rather empty, especially when compared to WOZ. The playfield elements don't tie in neatly with the theme either. I sure hope this isn't the final look. I was hoping to see something that topped both LOTR and WOZ.

#82 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

JJP made a huge mistake by going with the same designer for the first two games... Will say no more in an effort to be nice.

......all though i havent heard anyone complain that keiths the same programmer on the second game

#83 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

......all though i havent heard anyone complain that keiths the same programmer on the second game

There should be a better title than "programmer". There should be a standard title like "Lead Rule Architect" or something. Because there are other programmers beyond Keith (I think) and it's really more his architecting of the rules that we appreciate than the actual programming.

Just another random thought.

#84 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

It was a pleasure to burn...
When TaTa and I were at the JJP open house in August we were told by someone on the JJP team during a tour of the warehouse that there would be an LCD screen (approximately 5") that would display "something" on the left, Bag End part of the playfield. Furthermore, he explained that the same technology that powered the crystal ball in WOZ would be employed in THLE (though the screen would be larger and display a wider array of images). It's the one part of the game that has me a bit disappointed at this stage. I'm hoping for more...
On an unrelated note, has there been any indication what is between the speaker panels on the top of the backbox? I haven't a clue.

I'm convinced the expo version of TH is not the final Playfield build. Based on the following points...

1) Jack specifically stated during the presentation that the area between the speakers was a placeholder, and vaguely mentioned it could be a camera at some point, while basically avoiding the question. So there are definitely areas that are not finalized yet (such as the out-of-place book).

2) jack also stated that the central ramp diverter acts as Smaugs tail, but it sure doesn't look like a tail in this build. Further proof that all has not been revealed yet.

3). To me, the areas in the back left & right corners of the playfield are completely barren. It just doesn't look like it's finished. They could add more mountains by smaug, waterfalls by the poppers, more gold, more smaug body parts, anything really. I'd be super surprised if they didn't maximize that space. And who wants to see the bare metal parts of the ramp diverters by smaug? I bet all of those back ramps get covered up.

Even with the concerns of the playfield appearance, I haven't wavered one bit about my preorder. The code, lighting, targets, sounds and total package has incredible potential. Especially when the 3rd movie assets are added. They're not done with this design by a long shot IMO.

#85 5 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I'm convinced the expo version of TH is not the final Playfield build. Based on the following points...
1) Jack specifically stated during the presentation that the area between the speakers was a placeholder, and vaguely mentioned it could be a camera at some point, while basically avoiding the question. So there are definitely areas that are not finalized yet (such as the out-of-place book).
2) jack also stated that the central ramp diverter acts as Smaugs tail, but it sure doesn't look like a tail in this build. Further proof that all has not been revealed yet.
3). To me, the areas in the back left & right corners of the playfield are completely barren. It just doesn't look like it's finished. They could add more mountains by smaug, waterfalls by the poppers, more gold, more smaug body parts, anything really. I'd be super surprised if they didn't maximize that space. And who wants to see the bare metal parts of the ramp diverters by smaug? I bet all of those back ramps get covered up.
Even with the concerns of the playfield appearance, I haven't wavered one bit about my preorder. The code, lighting, targets, sounds and total package has incredible potential. Especially when the 3rd movie assets are added. They're not done with this design by a long shot IMO.

Could be completely true, all good points. However, I would only caution against getting your hopes up. I just don't see how it would be wise to hold back so much on your "big reveal" that people have been anticipating for nearly 2 years. And with all the hype of "just wait until Expo!" ... why would you not show almost everything? I think there are a few small things yet to show up which will be somewhat cool. Just don't expect the other 50% of the playfield to show up, you know?

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Could be completely true, all good points. However, I would only caution against getting your hopes up. I just don't see how it would be wise to hold back so much on your "big reveal" that people have been anticipating for nearly 2 years. And with all the hype of "just wait until Expo!" ... why would you not show almost everything? I think there are a few small things yet to show up which will be somewhat cool. Just don't expect the other 50% of the playfield to show up, you know?

I don't think they were holding back. I just think they're not finished yet & some things just weren't ready for expo. Who knows. They still have 2 months til production starts, so some things will definitely change. I like to be optimistic, it's just the way I am. If nothing changes in this build, I'm still happy to buy. Mad respect for Keith Johnson code.

#87 5 years ago

Is nobody at the expo that just could ask if this book is what we will get in the game?

#88 5 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I'm convinced the expo version of TH is not the final Playfield build. Based on the following points...
1) Jack specifically stated during the presentation that the area between the speakers was a placeholder, and vaguely mentioned it could be a camera at some point, while basically avoiding the question. So there are definitely areas that are not finalized yet (such as the out-of-place book).
2) jack also stated that the central ramp diverter acts as Smaugs tail, but it sure doesn't look like a tail in this build. Further proof that all has not been revealed yet.
3). To me, the areas in the back left & right corners of the playfield are completely barren. It just doesn't look like it's finished. They could add more mountains by smaug, waterfalls by the poppers, more gold, more smaug body parts, anything really. I'd be super surprised if they didn't maximize that space. And who wants to see the bare metal parts of the ramp diverters by smaug? I bet all of those back ramps get covered up.
Even with the concerns of the playfield appearance, I haven't wavered one bit about my preorder. The code, lighting, targets, sounds and total package has incredible potential. Especially when the 3rd movie assets are added. They're not done with this design by a long shot IMO.

The game was announced Nov of 2012 if they are not ready to show the game Oct 2014 what makes you think the game will be shipped on time.

#89 5 years ago
Quoted from fuko:

If you think about it, the book makes no sense. It serves no purpose, blocks the view into some nice looking pops, and most certainly adds some cost to the build.
Those of us who were along for the ride during WOZ know that Jack likes to throw curve balls. He is a consummate showman, and like all good showmen likes to save something for the last. I don't think we have seen the final version of this game yet.

I tend to agree with you. Even the back glass had a sticker over something that he was not willing to discuss. I think there are more surprises.

#90 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

JJP made a huge mistake by going with the same designer for the first two games... Will say no more in an effort to be nice.

That designer is GONE.....

#91 5 years ago

It's obvious the game shown at the Expo was not a completed version rather one with just enough going on to satisfy the minions without infringing on any licensing agreements. From what JJP has been saying all along only so much can be shown and no pin to be shipped before the third movie hits the theaters. The Expo pin was missing a few things like the fire button on the lock down bar, whatever goes into the empty space between the speakers and the five inch LCD. People upset about the 'book' really? Anyone think that's not just a temporary place holder? It will probably end up on the pin but where? Maybe over the shooter lane like Toto on WOZ?

IMO...the finished product is much closer than many may think and I believe they will be able to start shipping finished product on time. Time will tell if I'm talking out my a** but I doubt it highly.

#92 5 years ago
Quoted from Bostonbuzz:

It's obvious the game shown at the Expo was not a completed version rather one with just enough going on to satisfy the minions without infringing on any licensing agreements. From what JJP has been saying all along only so much can be shown and no pin to be shipped before the third movie hits the theaters. The Expo pin was missing a few things like the fire button on the lock down bar, whatever goes into the empty space between the speakers and the five inch LCD. People upset about the 'book' really? Anyone think that's not just a temporary place holder? It will probably end up on the pin but where? Maybe over the shooter lane like Toto on WOZ?
IMO...the finished product is much closer than many may think and I believe they will be able to start shipping finished product on time. Time will tell if I'm talking out my a** but I doubt it highly.

Again ... could be completely true. But why not just make a simple statement to that effect? Why on Earth would you just let so many of your customers feel a bit sick and upset right now? That just seems terrible. If there are elements tied to the 3rd movie that can't be revealed yet ... please don't make a silly statement later that you weren't allowed to say "there are other toys coming" or "there are certain things that are just placeholders right now" because the licensor wouldn't allow you to say something sooner.

#93 5 years ago

I agree and I would love to hear a definitive statement regarding the other 'toys' or missing elements but it is what it is. JJP may think it should be obvious that there's more to come as they have implied and feels no need to say anything else.

#94 5 years ago
Quoted from Bostonbuzz:

It's obvious the game shown at the Expo was not a completed version rather one with just enough going on to satisfy the minions without infringing on any licensing agreements. From what JJP has been saying all along only so much can be shown and no pin to be shipped before the third movie hits the theaters. The Expo pin was missing a few things like the fire button on the lock down bar, whatever goes into the empty space between the speakers and the five inch LCD. People upset about the 'book' really? Anyone think that's not just a temporary place holder? It will probably end up on the pin but where? Maybe over the shooter lane like Toto on WOZ

This from Joe (Pinballstar) - "One of the larger JJP distributors" when asked about the book being a placeholder:
I dont think so. I honestly don't know, but I would think not. Although jack did surprise with the LED in WOZ crystal ball after it was already being sold etc... He is always good with wanting to do more, but I wouldn't count on it

Post edited by tb2767: punctuation

#95 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

......all though i havent heard anyone complain that keiths the same programmer on the second game

I feel sorry for Keith having to make up for below par playfield layouts on two straight games. Keith is a great talent who deserves a more innovative playfield to work his magic on. Hobbit should have been Nordman like they advertised from the early days of JJP. Not sure why his relationship with JJP went south so fast, but imagine how cool this game would have been...

Quoted from robotronjohn:

That designer is GONE.....

Yes, and he as been gone many months now. Not surprising the game looks so unpolished.

#96 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Mark this on your calendar: I agreed with CraZ4Pin on something.

And mark down this date as a few post by panzer did not mention toys and did not make me puke a little bit in my mouth.

Seriously why is the book half open yet supposed to be page 1, nobody noticed this yet?

#97 5 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

If nothing changes in this build, I'm still happy to buy.

If nothing changes I would be out - but I don't think that is the case. There will be more, but will it be enough?

#98 5 years ago
Quoted from starbase:

And mark down this date as a few post by panzer did not mention toys and did not make me puke a little bit in my mouth.
Seriously why is the book half open yet supposed to be page 1, nobody noticed this yet?

It's a placeholder. I'd bet any amount. No way Jack's letting the machine into production with a book (that has two pieces of paper glued to it, btw...did anybody notice that?) screwed to a thin piece of stained plywood.

No way, no how, as the Wizard of Oz would say.

#99 5 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I don't think they were holding back. I just think they're not finished yet & some things just weren't ready for expo.

I feel the same way. I thought the book was a very nice piece of art work, but thought there was going to be something there that would be VERY interactive, whether it be a TV, or even a book that flipped 'pages' to show progress . . . or SOMETHING other than just sitting there taking up space. In a few months, we shall see . . .

#100 5 years ago

Book toy and metal block guides are terrible.

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