I'd choose rfm because I have

I vote RFM.

They are both really good, but different...

-- Getaway is super fast, exciting and simple
----- no modes, other than Super Charger
----- 2 progressive multiballs that are essentially the same
----- 3 flippers - upper flipper adds to the speed/excitement
----- pretty good video mode

-- RFM is not as fast, but has way more to it
----- 12 modes (since Mystery mode can be any 1 of 4 different modes)
----- 4 multiballs (Hypno Beam, Weapon, Martian, Bonus Wave)
----- Attack Mars wizard mode

So if you prefer simple, fun and fast: Getaway

If you want more depth, and have more fun with the variety: Revenge from Mars

the call outs and animations on RFM put it over the top of Getaway for me. Both are fun to shoot but I think RFM would be more fun to own.

I'd pass on both but RFM over HS2

I've owned both, sold both, miss HS2.

RFM has great callouts and video, but the shots are limited; two ramps, one orbit, the target in the centre. Yes, lots of modes but they're all the same shots.

HS2 isn't very deep and has no modes, but it's so fast and fun I always find myself wanting to play another game.

Despite being a HSII fan, I would go RFM

both get old quick. rfm is the better game, and guests will enjoy it much more.

I have owned both. Getaway is the better game, classic Steve Ritchie game. Add the sensational PinSound board to Getaway and it is even better. Plus Getaway is a 'real' pinball machine and not a hybrid video/pin game.

Had them both, like them both...recently sold Getaway but still have RFM. I can play Getaway on my Switch if I miss it.

RFM is really fun and unique - there’s nothing else like it, the implementation of “animated toys” still impresses me today. You feel like you’re hitting and interacting with them all since they’re always projected over targets and shots.

Don’t believe people who say things like this. There’s no “video game” in RFM. All video assets are projected elements onto 100% real pinball. There’s no video mode, like many “real” pinball games have. This is 20 year old propaganda from operators who feared P2K was going to be another Baby Pac-Man, Granny & the Gators, or Caveman - those were hybrids that flopped.

I only find this true with non-pinball people. Die-hard pinball collectors really don't consider RFM/SWEP1 (Pinball 2000) a typical pinball machine. When I had both games in my collection, my party guest who were not pinball collectors really did love it.

I never called RFM a "video game". I called it a hybrid.

My thoughts exactly.

Oh totally agree; But real pinball players don't really care aboot playing HS2 for the 9 millionth time anyway

I prefer real pinball, so I go with Getaway.

Pinball 2000 did flop. Williams went out of business. If it was so great and Williams felt that it would have saved them, they would have tried making more titles. Pinball 2000 was 20 years ago. If a hybrid game like a Pin2000 was so great why did Stern not continue the idea?

Bcause making slot machines got them 100X more.

I would think that any pinball player would not like to play ANY pinball machine for the '9 millionth time'. Any title gets old. That is why most collectors have more than one game. Some games are good in a larger collection of games. Games like RFM, SWEP1, Safecracker, etc are good games to have in a large collection of games.

Quoted from Tommy-dog: If a hybrid game like a Pin2000 was so great why did Stern not continue the idea?

Stern makes slot machines? I learn something new everyday. I need to get to Vegas more often.

You're overall idea is correct but I'll add that SWE1 is never a good machine to own in any amount of machines and NO pinball players enjoy playing it at all.
P2K sold just fine...but god swe1 was a piece of hot garbage.

Oh sorry I thought you meant Williams. Stern had nothign to do with it or the ideas or tech so that argument doesn;t really make sense.

RFM is like shooting the ball at a cartoon, where you never seem to miss.

As we;ve gone through before, RFM is hilarious, but it came out at a time where most places still had a AFM and it was a much better machine.
We played it for awHile but it's just the same layout and shit with an inferior feel to it. We already knewm Williams was going out of business by SWE1 release and shit, we were kind of happy by then sadly

Williams RFM: George Gomez

Stern Pinball: George Gomez, VP of game development for 8 years.

If Gomez felt a Pinball 2000 game was so great, he would push Stern in that direction.

And like has been said before we said "novel, but when will they be releasing the next real pinball machine".

You don't know the real story. Williams was going to shut down pinball, and gave the designers one last shot to make something cool....the 2 P2K games actually outsold all of the WPC95 games, but the suits were going to shut down Pinball anyway because Slots were making so much money. It was a success by pinball standards, but WMS didn't care.

That being said, I'm not advocating that anyone make something like P2K today. I'm just saying RFM is a very good game, judged on its own merits. It's "real" pinball, through and through. SWep1...that's an example of how to use the tech wrong. Stern didn't do it because they are Stern. Cheap + good license = money. South Park outsold and out earned P2K games purely due to theme.

George made P2K cuz he was determined to do something innovative to save the division.

That concept was irrelevant & too expensive for Stern and their business. George is a smart guy, he knows how to see the trends in the market and do what needs to be done.

It's not a hybrid, because it doesn't incorporate video gaming at all. You said it wasn't "real" pinball.

It's a real pinball with a "hidden" monitor used for holographic projections onto the playfield.

Had both in my collection at the same time and sold both. Dont miss either. Only reason I'd buy RFM again is to place it next to AFM, and at $3K+, no thanks.

Both got boring pretty quickly.

Who cares what you call pin2000? We all know what it is. It was an interesting concept for the time but that concept was short lived. I don't see it being that fun to own but that's just me. It just doesn't come together well like a traditional pinball where you can see exactly what you are doing. I owned a Getaway for a while and really enjoy playing it. It's not that deep and pretty easy to beat so not a long term keeper.

No, not propaganda, this is an opinion from current pinheads, myself included.
Every time I see it the first thing that pops in my head is " oh, theres pinballs ugly bastard brother"...
It will never be a real pinball in many peoples opinion...

You cant even see the god damn ball

Pinball 2000 platform, released in January of 1999. It took the pinball industry by storm, the biggest innovation in pinball since it went to digital scoring in the late 70’s. Instead of shooting at the usual targets, video targets were now ‘displayed’ on the playfield. This led to some very cool effects, as instead of just hitting the lit arrow and getting a flash and sound effect, the target would now explode or do some other cool animation. New players in particular were really impressed with the new gameplay, while more traditional players weren’t as enthused by the new changes, feeling it wasn’t ‘real’ pinball. Operators really liked it though because the games brought in more money that the previous games Williams had released, plus had a lot of things that made operating easier like swappable playfields and in depth diagnostics.

The general consensus on RFM (acronym for Revenge from Mars) is that it was a great initial game for the Pinball 2000 platform but as good of a game as some of Williams earlier efforts (at least in the eyes of pinball fans). New players really liked the video integration though.

It's been almost 20 years, and Stern still hasn't moved the technology of pinball forward a single inch.

I thoroughly love RFM and pinball 2000 for what they attempted to do. They did a ton of things right. I get the "its not a real pinball" belief but I don't put it through the same filter as "real" pinball machines. I dig it for what it is. It's one of my keepers because its unique and it is very entertaining!

Getaway is fun but I would pick RFM over it in a heartbeat ... but that’s just me.

When the two P2K games were made we didn't even have ColorDMD yet. The color images projected onto the coated surface of the glass were very nice, especially compared to orange and black DMDs. The color difference isn't so great now with ColorDMD available for most DMD games and with all newer games coming with color LCD screens.

That said, I really like my RFM and consider it to be real pinball. I also own SW:E1 (just to have both P2K games) even though it isn't even half as good as RFM.

Had both. Sold both. Miss RFM more. Both are fun games and I’d enjoy owning them again. Can’t go wrong with either from a fun factor standpoint.

I don't understand why anyone would consider pinball 2000 to not be "real" pinball. If you took any pinball machine and modded it so that the display appeared as a hologram over the playfield (And let's assume you also modded it so that the animations lined up with playfield shots), that wouldn't change the way it plays at all. The only difference is that neat effect and that designers wouldn't need to use lights to tell the player where to shoot.

Back on topic, I'd pick The Getaway. It's simpler by I just find it to be a better package overall

I already explained that.

It's like shooting at a cartoon and you rarely miss.

They had to make the shots too open and easy to make it work since you couldn't see them.

I suppose to any noobie, that's real pinball.

I own both games.
RFM humor can get old after a while, but is still a great game.
Both games are better in a large collection.
Variety is the spice of life.

Just want to mention something else that gets said a lot...that RFM is "too dark" and you can't see the ball. On a properly working RFM, the GI in the back part of the playfield always turns on when the ball goes back there...so when it's back there and goes into the lanes and pops, you can see it perfectly! ...it goes dark again when the ball rolls out, so the hologram effect looks nicer....and - of course, you can clearly see those interactive animated elements, the ramps, targets, and anything else you need to see.

Not exactly the transitive property there

You forgot the part that Stern isn't exactly into using the kind of budget on their games Williams did back in the 90s either.

In this particular case, less is certainly better.

Even though I’m not a very accomplished pinball player, I played RFM once and was amazed at how good I was. Thanks for bringing me down to earth!

Glad it wasn't just my imagination. Sometimes I get that feeling around here.

Two reasons:

A - Intellectual property. Anything remotely like Pin2000 would be infringing on William/Bally's IP, most importantly this patent:

https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=06158737&IDKey=508ECA97A272&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.htm%2526r%3D3%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPTXT%2526p%3D1%2526S1%3D%28%28gottlieb%252BAND%252Bspirit%29%252BAND%252Bpinball%29%2526OS%3Dgottlieb%252BAND%252Bspirit%252BAND%252Bpinball%2526RS%3D%28%28gottlieb%252BAND%252Bspirit%29%252BAND%252Bpinball%29

Anything they did remotely like it would be a heap of potential risk.

B - They had no reason to, with no competition. My Stern Star Trek (what, 15 years later than Pin2k?) came with a MONOCHROME display. They didn't start doing color displays until they finally had competition (Jersey Jack).

Interestingly, I think US patents expire after 20 years. That means 2020 someone could do this again without patent encumberance. Perhaps an opportunity for one of the pinball manufacturers now? With LCD displays now instead of CRT, you could do two displays - a front facing "normal" LCD display like we see in modern pins, plus a down-facing LCD like Pin2k. The existing computing horsepower in modern pins is surely enough to do what they did with a 20 year old low end PC, without breaking a sweat.

I remember explaining to someone how to play it. Don't think I've ever said "hit the middle" so many times in my life. At least some of the modes are interesting... namely the ones where you don't shoot the middle a whole bunch.

Pretty much all of them have a "something other than the middle" component. You can't get to the finale if you don't collect the lights on the playfield saucer by completing the modes, vs. just hitting the middle and passing through them.

Example, the bar scene. You can keep bashing the bar in the middle to pass the level...but you complete it by destroying all the drunk martians first, then destroying the bar.

I don't understand how the poll is even close. Getaway all day everyday by a million miles.

RFM.