(Topic ID: 292553)

The Getaway >> ground short row message ON 6 ROW'S / standup targets


By TecumsehPlissken

15 days ago

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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by eyeamred2u
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#1 15 days ago

Working on a Getaway Hi speed 2. This game has/had multiple issues so a little background first. The problem started with Check fuse F114 & F115 message. Fuses were fine but no 12 volts at Q2 so I replaced that and game came back up. I played about 5 or 6 games on it over period of 2 days then when I test played it one last time before declaring it fixed it reset during first ball and gave me slam tilt switch closed message. I have disconnected all 3 tilt switches in order to eliminate them as the problem. Now I have message "ground short row 1 stuck closed" Looking at the switch matrix for that row I see Slam tilt, Left sling, Top yellow, Top green, Top jet, Top loop, opto 1 I am still digging but also looking for advice on this one. One last thing to note this game has been heavily routed and someone has installed a separate independent power supply in the back of the cabinet with an electrical cord tied into the 5 volts.

#2 15 days ago

Also forgot to mention I have never been able to access the diagnostics and adjustment menu. The buttons do nothing but appear to be wired up.

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#3 15 days ago

I have fixed this on an acid damaged board and it was not related to that row. Some of the pins on chips that control the switch matrix and dedicated switches had lost continuity. The main problem was ground or +5. Been 10 years but I found it buzzing out the traces in those circuits

#4 15 days ago

Thank you KJL for the input. I have tried a new ULN2803A chip at U20 but it didn't help. I just now tried disconnecting all of the connectors at bottom of MPU board J205, J206, J208, and J212 and when I turn the game back on it still has the same error message. Can I now confirm that the problem lies on the board itself?

#5 14 days ago

check your voltages. I had the same issues your having and it turned out one of my bridge rectifiers was bad and voltage was low(I think it was the 16v actually).

-Tom

#6 14 days ago

Thanks Tom. Voltage measurements taken from the test points as follows 5v = 4.965, 12vu = 14.56, 18v = 15.37, 20v = 21.27, and 12vr = 4.5
so the 18v is a little bit low and the 12vr is way low if I measured that one correctly. As far as the BR's go I did check them all on Monday when I replaced Q2 but who knows could still have an issue with one?

#7 14 days ago

check the capacitor C2 on the powerdriver, possible been leaking on the board.

#8 13 days ago

You need to disconnect the Power Connectors to the CPU, Sound, Display, Flipper Boards and measure that 12 VDC line again.
If its still at 4.5 VDC then the LM7812 voltage regulator is crook. Is is hot? it should be only warm More likely is one of the above boards loading down the Regulator.
The 18 VDC feeds this regulator.

Also depends on what hack has been done to the PSU. Is it only used for the 5 VDC or is it been used for 12 VDC as well?

#9 10 days ago
Quoted from zaza:

check the capacitor C2 on the powerdriver, possible been leaking on the board.

C2 looks alright, but I will post a picture of it later today when I can.

#10 10 days ago
Quoted from WH20_Buzz:

You need to disconnect the Power Connectors to the CPU, Sound, Display, Flipper Boards and measure that 12 VDC line again.
If its still at 4.5 VDC then the LM7812 voltage regulator is crook. Is is hot? it should be only warm More likely is one of the above boards loading down the Regulator.
The 18 VDC feeds this regulator.
Also depends on what hack has been done to the PSU. Is it only used for the 5 VDC or is it been used for 12 VDC as well?

Isn't LM7812 voltage regulator on the board in position Q2 ? if so I replaced that previously and had the game playing (see original post). perhaps it has failed again caused by something else that I have not discovered as yet?

#11 10 days ago

Ok so after checking for voltage at Q2 (LM7812) the ground short row 1 message disappeared and Check fuse F114 and F115 came back. This morning I replaced Q2 for the second time and game is back up and playing again. Can anyone advise on what could have caused it to fail again so soon? this is a location game and I don't want to put it back on the floor until I am sure its gonna hold up for awhile.

#12 10 days ago

Update: I put game in switch test to check something else and noticed that both of the yellow stand up targets give messages of ground short row when triggered in test. The top right side Yellow says ground short row 1 , white brown (wire) and the Yellow target lower on the playfield in center says ground short row 2 white red.

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#13 9 days ago

For what its worth i had similar issues on
a getaway a few weeks back. Sling switch was shorting on a lamp socket lug for the gi.

#14 9 days ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Update: I put game in switch test to check something else and noticed that both of the yellow stand up targets give messages of ground short row when triggered in test. The top right side Yellow says ground short row 1 , white brown (wire) and the Yellow target lower on the playfield in center says ground short row 2 white red.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Check for broken wires and shorts as stated by pinballplusMN, then start working upstream to the boards, all the way back to the MPU and U20 chip.

#15 9 days ago

Still digging on this one & I have discovered a few more things. Its not just the 2 yellow stand up targets that give a ground row short message. All 3 of the yellow targets do that & in addition I noticed that All 3 of the Right side bank white stand ups #44,#45,and #46 do it as well. They individually reference a different row on each one. So yellow top right target registers ground short row #1, center yellow target row #2, and bottom left yellow row #3 and with Right side bank switch#44 same message except it is for row #4 , #45 = row #5 and #46 = row#6. Also noticed in switch test that if you hold the outhole switch closed and then close any one of the other 3 trough switches Left, Center, or Right the switch test shows "Opto made loop" which is the last opto on the super charger loop ramp. In addition to all of that I noticed that the outhole switch does NOT have a diode attached and I think it is supposed to have one. All of the other trough switch's have them. Could a missing diode cause All of this?? I have traced wires and connections all over and over again I have been unable to find any shorts or broken wires/ connections touching etc... (yet) Lastly I am posting a couple pictures one is of the Outhole switch , the other is of the DMD in switch test showing one lone switch closed on the left side of the screen that I have been unable to identify yet. Can anyone tell me what that switch is so that I can check it? Thanks much

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#16 9 days ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Still digging on this one & I have discovered a few more things. Its not just the 2 yellow stand up targets that give a ground row short message. All 3 of the yellow targets do that & in addition I noticed that All 3 of the Right side bank white stand ups #44,#45,and #46 do it as well. They individually reference a different row on each one. So yellow top right target registers ground short row #1, center yellow target row #2, and bottom left yellow row #3 and with Right side bank switch#44 same message except it is for row #4 , #45 = row #5 and #46 = row#6. Also noticed in switch test that if you hold the outhole switch closed and then close any one of the other 3 trough switches Left, Center, or Right the switch test shows "Opto made loop" which is the last opto on the super charger loop ramp. In addition to all of that I noticed that the outhole switch does NOT have a diode attached and I think it is supposed to have one. All of the other trough switch's have them. Could a missing diode cause All of this?? I have traced wires and connections all over and over again I have been unable to find any shorts or broken wires/ connections touching etc... (yet) Lastly I am posting a couple pictures one is of the Outhole switch , the other is of the DMD in switch test showing one lone switch closed on the left side of the screen that I have been unable to identify yet. Can anyone tell me what that switch is so that I can check it? Thanks much
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

FYI, Same status on my Getaway for the switch you are referring to
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#17 9 days ago
Quoted from Archon9000:

FYI, Same status on my Getaway for the switch you are referring to
[quoted image]

Thanks for that! I can at least rule out chasing that down now.

#18 9 days ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Thanks for that! I can at least rule out chasing that down now.

If you need any pics as a reference, just let me know

#19 9 days ago

Any chance I could get a good picture of the outhole switch on your game?

#20 9 days ago

I just looked at Addams family , Creech, and Dr. who all similar system games with the same trough setup and they all have the diode.

#21 9 days ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Any chance I could get a good picture of the outhole switch on your game?

Hope this helps

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#22 9 days ago

Thank you for the pictures Archon9000. Looks to me like someone replaced the diode on this game with a piece of purple wire

#23 8 days ago

Removed the purple wire and added the diode to the outhole switch and that stopped it from reading "opto made loop" in switch test with the outhole and trough switches closed but I still have all of the ground row short error messages when testing all of those stand up targets.

#24 8 days ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Removed the purple wire and added the diode to the outhole switch and that stopped it from reading "opto made loop" in switch test with the outhole and trough switches closed but I still have all of the ground row short error messages when testing all of those stand up targets.

The short error message seems like you blew out U20 on the MPU. Voltage went backwards without the diode protections and fried U20.

#25 8 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

The short error message seems like you blew out U20 on the MPU. Voltage went backwards without the diode protections and fried U20.

Well I tried that but nope. I just replaced U20 with a new ULN2803A chip this morning and the problem persists.

#26 7 days ago

After reading some older threads on the subject of multiple rows having ground row shorts at the same time I see opto's mentioned. How can these get grounded without being able to see it touching something? This game has at least 5 opto's in it.

#27 7 days ago

After reading some older threads on the subject of multiple rows having ground row shorts at the same time I see opto's mentioned. How can these get grounded without being able to see it touching something? This game has at least 5 opto's

The only other chips on the MPU would be U18 and U19, and that would be a long shot.

You can unplug the optos and see if the error goes away.

#28 7 days ago

Please tell me a few things.. You said you never managed to get into adjustment menu and then later you show a picture of the switch test ? So you got the switches to work to get to the menu I suppose?

You give your voltages but did you check them again once you had replaced Q2 a second time ? Because your 12v was very low and abnormal , and the circuitry that checks the rows / columns (for your switches) relies on that 12v. If that 12v is not at 12v and stable , you can't expect the circuitry to work properly.

I also see that computer power supply.. What is it connected to ? Was it there for some LED strip add on ? Or is it connected to the power board somehow ?

Before looking any further , I would get that PC power supply out of the equation. Verify all the AC voltages from the transformer , and fix the power board the way it's supposed to be.

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#29 7 days ago

Thank you Roamin that schematic explanation is quite helpful & appreciated. I will try & answer your questions in order Yes I can get into the menu & diagnostics now. I wasn't able to when at first it just had the check F114 & F115 message. After replacing Q2 the first time I just played a few games and it went down again with a slam tilt stuck closed message & I was locked out of the menu again at that point. Replacing Q2 for the second time I went straight into the menu to check some things before playing it much & found all these ground short row messages. I just now went back & checked the voltages again. Measurements as follows: TP1 12VU = 14.68, TP2 5v = 4.96, TP3 12VR = 11.79, TP6 50V = 73.2, TP7 20V = 21.65, TP8 18V = 16.02 The computer power supply appears to be only hooked up to the 5 volts via the brown electrical cord to pins#4 and #5 at J210 on the MPU.
I measure 4.96 there at the connection.

#30 6 days ago
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#31 6 days ago

Rip out all those hacks and put the machine back to original and see where you're at. It's going to be hard for anyone to help otherwise.

#32 6 days ago

Where to go & how to proceed from here? For starters IF I can get a New power driver board or have this one repaired properly then is it just trying to remove the hack power supply and its wire connections and putting it back the way it was Factory the best I can? I tried taking voltage readings from the 15 pin connector that comes off of the transformer but they kept fluctuating on the fluke meter and nothing was consistent.OVERWHELMED at the MOMENT on this one but not giving up.

#33 6 days ago

Take out the extra power supply and un-do all the wiring hacks. All of the wiring is well documented. Leave the boards alone for now.

#34 6 days ago
Quoted from amxfc3s:

Rip out all those hacks and put the machine back to original and see where you're at. It's going to be hard for anyone to help otherwise.

That's a start & I agree. Will be traveling down that road the next time I am in front of this jewel starting on Monday morning

#35 6 days ago

OMFG ... this poor machine. Hopefully you can give it the TLC it deserves.

#36 6 days ago

Wow, that is too many hacks. I second and third the sentiment to bring the game back to original condition so the shotgunning approach can be minimized.

Send the boards out for repair.

Repair any connectors.

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