(Topic ID: 328495)

The Future of Stern, for better or worse...

By VisitorQ

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinStalker
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    There are 196 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    #1 1 year ago

    Let's me start by saying... I don't own a pinball company, nor do I run one. Hell I don't even work at one but I am a customer and have never been exactly thrill with Stern although I want to be. Big price hikes, delays, poor communication and a parts department that has their head up their ass. Sorry but his has been my personal experience so yours may differ but at least when I call JJP someone picks up the phone! Listen... This is not a witch hunt, I am not perfect and either is JJP so don't think I am trying to compare the two. However. For me, Stern could use some retooling of the company and now with Gary stepping down as CEO, we come to the my question.

    Do you think Stern will become better as a company with a new CEO and some fresh blood leading the pack?

    What improvements would you like to see?

    #2 1 year ago

    Awesome thread! Thanks for doing this!

    10
    #3 1 year ago

    I would like to hear CEO Seth Davis talk about his feelings about pinball. Specific observations that show he's a connoisseur not 'when I was a boy scout with a sack full of quarters'. Does he even play? Does value it as an art form? Or does he have MBA-vision and it's just a black box with little dollar signs on it?

    The company is going to improve. But depending on his feelings it can improve as an art or as a business. George's leadership keeps me optimistic, but I'm worried there's only so much he can do if other leaders don't genuinely care about the craft

    #4 1 year ago

    I know JJP went downhill after Jack sold the company so yeah kinda wondering about Stern as well

    #5 1 year ago

    It's hard to know. It isn't just Gary that is calling it a day but several others that have been there for some time. Plus George is 67 (I think), so honestly, no one knows or can know.

    #6 1 year ago

    Gota wear shades!

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    It's hard to know. It isn't just Gary that is calling it a day but several others that have been there for some time. Plus George is 67 (I think), so honestly, no one knows or can know.

    Which brings up potentially the most important/impactful change in the future - who will replace George!

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinBalt:

    Which brings up potentially the most important/impactful change in the future - who will replace George!

    Bob Chapek would be perfect

    13
    #9 1 year ago

    Found an article here: https://www.citybiz.co/article/362228/stern-pinball-appoints-seth-davis-as-ceo/

    Quick lil excerpt from it:

    "Immediately prior to joining Stern Pinball, Seth served on the executive team responsible for the highly successful subscription-based streaming services Disney+ and ESPN+. Earlier in his career Seth served in Disney Corporate Financial Planning leading business transformation projects; as Head of Product Management for Connected Experiences within Disney Games and Consumer Products as part of Walt Disney Imagineering; as leader of Disney’s Digital Games Console and PC line of business; and as Director of Disney Games’ Strategy, Market Analytics, and Product Planning."

    You think the price hikes and DLC is a problem now and he is just about to take over...? Bwhahahha, customers and fanboys are about to get a pole through the body, Cannibal Holocaust-style.

    If you stop buying $500 signs, $1500 toppers, and $7000 PRO MODEL games, the company would adjust.

    But that won't happen.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from JakePG:

    Bob Chapek would be perfect

    Bob Chapek is Bob Iger without the PR team. Investors seem to be figuring that out now.

    26
    #11 1 year ago

    Seth Davis has been the CEO of Stern for over a year already.

    Do people even know that?

    All I know is Stern has the best designer in pinball right now, and he’s making games good enough to have me considering paying these high prices.

    If JJP had good games I’d consider them too, I don’t cheerlead brands. But Toy Story is unpleasant and Godzilla is amazing. It’s that simple for me.

    Who the CEO of either company is matters to me not at all.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Bob Chapek is Bob Iger without the PR team. Investors seem to be figuring that out now.

    Exactly. They are one and the same.

    #13 1 year ago

    Stern's biggest problem at the moment is supply chain faltering. Not game design, or technical choices. Supply chain issues, at least, seem like the sort of thing where you don't really need to be a pinball fan to combat them.

    #14 1 year ago

    Stern makes some amazing machines, they have a great product but it's when dealing with the company personally that I have had the most issues. I needed a side decal with one of my machines and it was a nightmare trying to obtain one. Countless emails dealing with multiple people who would tell me one thing and then another. Not only was it a waste of my time but it was also a waste of Stern's time as a company. In the end, I had a friend who reached out to someone they knew who worked there and was able to get what I need, if not I would still be dealing with their parts department.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from oldbaby:

    Stern's biggest problem at the moment is supply chain faltering. Not game design, or technical choices. Supply chain issues, at least, seem like the sort of thing where you don't really need to be a pinball fan to combat them.

    Although this is an issue to an extent, I feel it's just a crutch that Stern has learned to fall back on. Problems surpass this for me...

    #16 1 year ago

    Another case of…it’s not about what you know it’s about WHO you know.

    #17 1 year ago

    Some new changes on top. New building. ( I'd love to see inside someday )

    I'd say they will keep on what they are doing. Bigger and better.

    Stern has come a long way from when they were the only kid on the block. A direction that continues into the future.

    LTG : )

    10
    #18 1 year ago

    I miss the good old days

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    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from EJS:

    I miss the good old days
    [quoted image]

    Yes we all miss the good old days of such fine machines as CSI, NASCAR, and Indiana Jones.

    26
    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yes we all miss the good old days of such fine machines as CSI, NASCAR, and Indiana Jones.

    no, we miss the good old days of spiderman, lotr, ripleys, tspp.

    #21 1 year ago

    I fear we're moving into a "Computer chips, potato chips, it doesn't matter, it's a business" era. I hope George and the creative team are able to keep the passion for the games burning bright for the company, because I suspect the passion elsewhere will be for game business models, not games. Without a strong creative core in the studio (which George and team definitely have), it will become a very different company.

    If I were JJP or Spooky, there is a huge opportunity here to lead with passion for the games (and crazy quality and polish). They will never win against economies of scale and manufacturing prowess, but they will win by being premium products and brands that all of us would line up to pay a premium for.

    #22 1 year ago

    Gary will continue as Chairman of Board and, as such, will still be calling the shots, at least from the background:

    Company Founder, Gary Stern, will step down as CEO but continue as Chairman of the Board. Dave Peterson will continue to serve as Vice Chairman of the Board. Gary and Dave will remain the controlling shareholders of the company and serve in executive roles on a project basis. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221220005218/en/Stern-Pinball-Announces-Leadership-Expansion

    So if the CEO is taking the company in a direction that Gary isn't on board with it will likely vetoed anyway, assuming Gary has the votes of the majority of the other board members. Relinquishing the CEO job simply frees up Gary day-to-day. However, if anyone thinks he still is not taking a hand in things I would beg to differ...

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yes we all miss the good old days of such fine machines as CSI, NASCAR, and Indiana Jones.

    Hey that was a LOTR manual

    #24 1 year ago

    A change of leadership is always a good thing, look at Twitter.

    #25 1 year ago

    Gary is in his mid to late 70's and probably will phase out in the next year or 2.

    New CEO has been there for a year and we already seen a large price hike and crazy prices on toppers etc but while people support them that just keeps feeding the ever increase of prices. I agree I would like to hear from the new CEO and understand his passion for pinball or is it for just making money as based on his career as he has climbed a heap of ladders.

    It is great they are investing in a new factory including a 10 year lease but we are paying for that in the game prices. Hopefully they can ramp up production in the near future as being a CEO for a year now and production slowing down is not a great thing. But in saying that, good on Stern for still manufacturing at mass in the US still while many companies take it overseas or close down.

    I do find it interesting that a number of long term stayers are leaving - I know they are getting older but that can suggest they also do not like what is coming around the corner and don't want to be associated with that. On a recent gomez interview they talked of Spike 3, new cabinet etc in the near future which is great but is very concerning that they don't support older games once they stop in production - ramps, computer and node boards etc. Would of loved to hear they have a computer board that can also look after spike 1 and 2.

    It is what it is but expect further price hikes and like what Craig Bobby says - we will have to wait and see.

    #26 1 year ago

    This thread seems way too negative. At one point people bash Stern for what they have done, and on the same posting they indicate it's going to go downhill. All companies can improve. And companies are 3 dimensional, most arguments on this thread are a 1 dimensional datapoint argument. Possibly some portions of a company need some more improvement where other parts of a company are thriving.

    The new Sterns are great machines from a design/playability perspective, I think only a few will argue this fact on here today. In fact, late model Sterns are competing with Mid 90's WPC games that I thought I would not see a design come close in my lifetime. 10 years ago I was waiting for all the pinball companies to go out of business. Stern not only re-invented itself, but, they are the market leader. I measure this by games sold.

    No different that any company, markets change, people change. Companies need to adapt to the market and re-invent themselves every so often to stay a market leader. I agree that a company is only as good as it's people. But, I also know the financial stakeholders at Stern will NOT want to see their hard work go down the tubes. Not sure why people think things will immediately improve/degrade here. This only happens when you plug in new/outside completely different people with a different vision of a company. From what I see this is not the case at Stern.
    We will see I guess. If they keep designing great games like Godzilla and others I know for sure things will only get better.

    30
    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    I agree I would like to hear from the new CEO and understand his passion for pinball or is it for just making money as based on his career as he has climbed a heap of ladders.
    .

    You think Gary has a "passion for pinball?" Have you ever seen him play?

    Gary probably thinks most pinsiders are absolute lunatics. For his ENTIRE LIFE - 8 decades - pinball has simply been something that puts a roof over his head and feeds his family. It's like your dad who works for Greyhound - "He has a passion for busing people from Toledo to Detroit!!!," or you uncle who worked 40 years in mid-level management for Sears. Did he have a passion for crunching numbers, dealing with furniture vendors, or figuring out how many people to lay off after Christmas?

    Seems like everybody in pinball wants to project their feelings about the hobby onto everything else about pinball including the management of these companies. It's not a hobby for a Gary Stern nor is it a "passion," it's exactly what your job is to you; You may love it, you may hate it, you may tolerate it, but at it's essence, it's just what is paying your rent, bills, and sending your kids to college.

    I wish more of you folks could understand this. The pinball industry isn't about passion, it's about staying in business and being profitable, just like it was for Harry Williams and Sam Stern in the 1930s. You know who had a "passion for pinball?" Kulek, Mueller, Heighway...I think I'll take the "Disney Guy" or Gary over the passionate pinball dreamer.

    #28 1 year ago

    Prices? I can understand. We’re just in that kind of economic environment.

    Customer service? It’s BS. No parts to help existing customers with dead games, but they can build new ones. And no one to help you at Stern when games are down. One shouldn’t have to rely on the community for tech support and parts…

    For the modern era games, I was building my stern collection and was up to 9. I’m down to 6 and I’ve got 2 more lined up to be sold. I now have almost as many spooky titles and American. I have one on order and I’m very likely to buy galactic tank force. Customer service has been top notch at both - both talking to someone and getting parts. That goes a long way in my book and is why I’ve been transitioning my collection.

    Unfortunately, I can’t part with my Deadpool or Jurassic park. I may have to keep munsters too because even if it goes down and I can get it back up…franchis Art is a joy to look at. And well, I made the mistake once of letting a ghostbusters go…and I won’t make that mistake again!

    #29 1 year ago

    JJP blew it entirely with TS4: badly fumbling the license, stripping it down AND increasing price. Spooky and American Pinball seem best poised to pick up any market share that Stern loses, their prices have remained more palatable. When JJP charges you 12k/15k for an 8k machine, they damn well better pick up the phone and give you a neck massage while they're at it.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from VisitorQ:

    Stern makes some amazing machines, they have a great product but it's when dealing with the company personally that I have had the most issues. I needed a side decal with one of my machines and it was a nightmare trying to obtain one. Countless emails dealing with multiple people who would tell me one thing and then another. Not only was it a waste of my time but it was also a waste of Stern's time as a company. In the end, I had a friend who reached out to someone they knew who worked there and was able to get what I need, if not I would still be dealing with their parts department.

    Did you buy the game direct from Stern? You are meant to go through your distro for warranty and/or parts. What was wrong with the decal?

    Frustrating, we have been waiting for some parts for over a year. That is not normally a sign of a bad company, more a sign of a bad line manager.Stern need to get onto this.

    #31 1 year ago

    I’d love to see an immediate bolstering of the parts / support department. I’m waiting on a lot of parts and no response from stern at all. It’s become embarrassingly bad over the past 12 months trying to get parts both on warranty and for purchase.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

    no, we miss the good old days of spiderman, lotr, ripleys, tspp.

    If you started a poll right now and said "You can have a NIB Spider-Man, LOTR, Ripley's, or TSPP, or you can have Keith Elwin's next game regardless of theme" I'm confident Keith would win handily, even without knowing the license.

    If you think Stern was making better games then that's certainly your personal prerogative, I just don't think many people would agree. The only thing I miss are the prices.

    Nothing but love for Gary, but as his influence has waned you know what we've gotten? Interesting pop bumpers instead of boring nests, and more upper flippers. Both things he's fought against. I'm all for him enjoying retiring, he's earned it.

    Quoted from ray-dude:

    If I were JJP or Spooky, there is a huge opportunity here to lead with passion for the games (and crazy quality and polish).

    Have you played or even seen Toy Story? You think that's passion? It looks like it should be dispensing tickets at Dave and Busters with the rainbow puke attract mode. If you enjoy the game that's totally okay, nobody needs my permission to like it, but I would hope nobody thinks that obnoxious lighting and more LCD screens over mechanical enjoyment is the future of pinball.

    You think Spooky is the company of "crazy quality"? People struggle to operate their games because they're just not reliable enough for commercial location, and they change board sets like I change jeans.

    I wish Spooky the best, I'm just being honest, their 'quality' is threads full of people unhappy with their new in box TNAs being riddled with problems. They need to fix their issues before anyone can seriously say they're going to be a leader in quality. Scooby-Doo looks fantastic visually, let's see how the NIB and operating experience is before we get ahead of ourselves.

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    Frustrating, we have been waiting for some parts for over a year. That is not normally a sign of a bad company, more a sign of a bad line manager.Stern need to get onto this.

    Long as people keep blindly buying, they ain't getting onto jack-shit except increasing prices and seeing what stupid ass gimmicks they can make that people with more dollars than sense will buy.

    "A RuSh ShIRt aNd VINyL FOr $500????? TAAAIIKKKK MAH MUNEE!!!!!!" oh and a keychain - my bad forgetting that

    #34 1 year ago

    I see Stern eventually transitioning to a 3rd party for all replacement parts distribution and support. They aren't equipped to do this themselves at the moment nor do they seem to be wanting to expand on their own in this area. I can see some kind of tech support fee or service contract plan coming down the road as well. They could use the insider connected portal to diagnose your machine remotely (for a fee) and initiate a replacement part swap for free if you pay the yearly contract, or for a stupid high markup that would make you wish you had the contract. Node boards and playfield light boards are pretty easy swaps for those with basic skills.

    This is exactly how many commercial machinery companies like machine tools and commercial 3D printer manufacturers work.

    #35 1 year ago

    I couldn't care less whoS in charge, the price hikes have soured me completely from NIB. and not getting or making extra parts available for recurring customers is the final nail in the coffin for me.

    They won't be getting my business anymore for a long time. The ROI on a pro is garbage now.

    I'm hoping this next round of price hikes will wake some folks up. The rich will eventually run outta space like any other person and sales will slow.

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    ....The rich will eventually run outta space like any other person and sales will slow.

    I don't know man their houses are a lot bigger than ours!

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballaddicted:

    Did you buy the game direct from Stern? You are meant to go through your distro for warranty and/or parts. What was wrong with the decal?
    Frustrating, we have been waiting for some parts for over a year. That is not normally a sign of a bad company, more a sign of a bad line manager.Stern need to get onto this.

    Multiple people have been posting about problems getting parts. I don't think it matters who you go to if the primary supplier of everything isn't getting parts to distributors to distribute.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Multiple people have been posting about problems getting parts. I don't think it matters who you go to if the primary supplier of everything isn't getting parts to distributors to distribute.

    Lots of cases on this forum of people waiting on parts that never came and they did full on reruns of those particular games.... There isn't an excuse that can be made on not getting parts when they're pumping out new games from the factory. I'm sure The usual suspects will say it's their business and they want to sell pinballs, blah blah blah- but the point is they are leaving their recurring customers in the dust by not fulfilling their fiduciary duty of supplying them back end parts when they are clearly readily available. I believe this attitude from Stern pinball company will catch up to them plenty of people have been burned and will not forget it.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Have you played or even seen Toy Story? You think that's passion?

    Quoted from Aurich:

    You think Spooky is the company of "crazy quality"?

    I agree 1000%!

    I would never consider buying a Spooky game, and as a huge Lawlor and Toy Story fan, my disappointment in TS4 after the jewel that was GnR is beyond words.

    That being said, there is a window for them to get their focus together and claim the space Stern doesn’t have and doesn’t need to take. If they try to go head to head on manufacturing, distribution, volume, or IP leverage, they will lose.

    If they are able to pivot and claim the high ground for passion and quality? There is a real niche there, esp at these prices. Let Stern take the operator market with their Pros, go for the premium home market with things that blow the Stern premiums and LEs away

    Stern is going to continue to chase volume, and drive margin with high priced premium offers that aren’t high value. Someone needs to step up and compete with premium offers that are high value, or Stern will keep pushing margin over value, and hopefully JJP or Spooky (or long shot CGC) is up to it.

    #40 1 year ago
    Quoted from ray-dude:

    after the jewel that was GnR is beyond words.

    In this analogy guns and roses is a cubic zirconia

    #41 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    the passionate pinball dreamer

    I believe there are very few, but there are a couple of real passionate dreamers in the industry. But you need a good business man, and preferably a good manufacturing business owner to start with, before you even THINK about anything pinball. But that’s the big rub these days, where do you find a good manufacturing business owner in the USA? They have gone the way of US manufacturing- away. So is Gary Passionate about pinball?, nah. But he is passionate about good old Made in the USA capitalism, and with a wall-full of cheap Walmart microwaves, he’ll show you how to do it too!!

    22
    #42 1 year ago

    All this talk about lack of passion is really of base to me. Nobody works in pinball because it's an easy way to make a living. They're all passionate about it. I dunno what Stern pays, but I promise you if you're a programmer you could have been making double that at some internet company desperate for bodies who can code.

    People who think Stern is full of people just clocking a paycheck are imo out of touch with the human beings they're talking about. Same is true for all the other companies.

    I might think Toy Story is an unappealing game, but I don't doubt Pat Lawlor's commitment to pinball. He has a style that isn't my favorite and they picked a poor license. So it goes. People still worked hard on it, and I know some do love it. Different strokes.

    You know who gets dunked on here in personal ways more than he should? Lonnie. Have you ever talked with Lonnie? I have. Zero doubt in my mind about his passion for pinball. Who kept the lights on for game code during the worst times at Stern? Lonnie did.

    You don't like his game code, cool, everyone has their own taste. I think Keefer is a genius, and I also don't enjoy playing his games. Not my style. I don't doubt either of their commitment.

    I didn't enjoy playing Rush. I love my Metallica. Borg did them both. He's a pinball OG, nothing but respect. I can not like his latest game without saying he's a hack, or soulless, or lacks passion.

    I'm never shy about having an opinion, and I never begrudge anyone for not agreeing with me or having their own. Say a game sucks if you don't like it. But there's no reason to drag the people who made it through the mud, or say they don't care about their jobs.

    #43 1 year ago

    Future of Stern? Better as usual.
    Hell nobody’s perfect, but they just got through cranking out more great titles in a month than most do in a year. Most games will be fun, reliable, and ultimately have complete code. Had timely resolution with issues but sounds like that could improve over the next year.
    Honestly, I’d consider the future of a few other pinball manufacturers before Stern.

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Seth Davis has been the CEO of Stern for over a year already.
    Do people even know that?

    Not sure if if you mean figuratively or literally. He was president- not ceo.

    But gary wasn’t 100% in control since the investors moved in.

    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Not sure if if you mean figuratively or literally. He was president- not ceo.
    But gary wasn’t 100% in control since the investors moved in.

    You're right, he's was president, not CEO, mixed up my memory there.

    Not new to the company is the point I was trying to make, but good to use the right terminology.

    #46 1 year ago

    The fact that the guy in charge of Stern is a life-long gamer is a massive plus in my opinion. I'm a life-long gamer and I know my audience, and give them exactly what they want - the most immersive, most exciting pinball experiences ever produced. None of this chasing points BS, that the old-timers like.

    Stern has now become 'future proof'. And who knows, I may actually buy one of their machines in the future... if they can produce the pinball experiences I'm looking for.

    #47 1 year ago

    Aurich I think you’ve nailed it with your posts.

    My primary concern would be how they are treating their talent. Elwin’s and Yetis don’t come along often.

    #48 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    You know who gets dunked on here in personal ways more than he should? Lonnie. Have you ever talked with Lonnie? I have. Zero doubt in my mind about his passion for pinball. Who kept the lights on for game code during the worst times at Stern? Lonnie did.
    You don't like his game code, cool, everyone has their own taste.

    How often I see pinmonk here and in pinball stream chats bashing Lonnie is disgraceful. If someome wants to pay $140 to put a $3 usb pc fan in their pinball machine, by all means, but that kinda behavior warrants me advising people shop elsewhere.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from SLRage:

    I know JJP went downhill after Jack sold the company so yeah kinda wondering about Stern as well

    Had Jack not sold JJP would be out of business. Jack selling the company was the best thing that ever happened to JJP and it's a reason they are still here today. They are still making great products today, are they perfect no but the games being made today are just as fun IMO (if not more) then before Jack sold.

    -5
    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    All this talk about lack of passion is really of base to me. Nobody works in pinball because it's an easy way to make a living. They're all passionate about it. I dunno what Stern pays, but I promise you if you're a programmer you could have been making double that at some internet company desperate for bodies who can code.
    People who think Stern is full of people just clocking a paycheck are imo out of touch with the human beings they're talking about. Same is true for all the other companies.
    I might think Toy Story is an unappealing game, but I don't doubt Pat Lawlor's commitment to pinball. He has a style that isn't my favorite and they picked a poor license. So it goes. People still worked hard on it, and I know some do love it. Different strokes.
    You know who gets dunked on here in personal ways more than he should? Lonnie. Have you ever talked with Lonnie? I have. Zero doubt in my mind about his passion for pinball. Who kept the lights on for game code during the worst times at Stern? Lonnie did.
    You don't like his game code, cool, everyone has their own taste. I think Keefer is a genius, and I also don't enjoy playing his games. Not my style. I don't doubt either of their commitment.
    I didn't enjoy playing Rush. I love my Metallica. Borg did them both. He's a pinball OG, nothing but respect. I can not like his latest game without saying he's a hack, or soulless, or lacks passion.
    I'm never shy about having an opinion, and I never begrudge anyone for not agreeing with me or having their own. Say a game sucks if you don't like it. But there's no reason to drag the people who made it through the mud, or say they don't care about their jobs.

    May want to listen to your own advice when it comes to dragging Toy Story through the mud regularly. Yes Toy Story was made with passion, like it or not the entire team put a ton of work into it. I know you don't like it but a lot of people do. Hell I just had a family pinball party with 15+ people and guess what the most played game was...Toy Story, followed by GNR. What I thought was interesting is two cousins of mine, who both own pins, couldn't praise Toy Story enough. Maybe that's what happens when you just start enjoying a game and not thinking about being offended over something such as a "mini" LCD screen.

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