(Topic ID: 248353)

The Firepower II Lounge...members and fans

By ss-pinball

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 562 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 62 days ago by Rampmaster
  • Topic is favorited by 30 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Firepower II replacements: plastics, back glasses, hard tops and playfields are not available. It would be helpful to have an idea how many owners would commit to purchasing the following. It would likely be a "limited edition" approach. see post #157”

  • Plastics 34 votes
    34%
  • Back Glass 21 votes
    21%
  • Hard Top 22 votes
    22%
  • Playfield 22 votes
    22%

(Multiple choice - 99 votes by 54 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

processed-3B2A9A7E-0CC2-454A-8F2B-28B6D7DC2D02 (resized).jpeg
sling protectors with white (resized).JPG
sling protectors with blue (resized).JPG
IMG_2960 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2923 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2962 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2757 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2752 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2755 (resized).jpeg
IMG_2923 (resized).jpeg
FP2PSHT (resized).png
5F787E94-DDDF-4FDF-A028-B4EBC3DDAA9F (resized).png
PXL_20230126_210105165 (resized).jpg
PXL_20230126_210520964.MP (resized).jpg
20230218_163027 (resized).jpg
20230218_155352 (resized).jpg

There are 562 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 12.
#301 3 years ago
Quoted from idealjoker:

That's a cool mod. I also started doing mods to re-balance a game. Jungle Lord in my case. I could not think of a switch mod like yours to solve the main problem I had with the game so I went the software route. I have come to really enjoy modding WMS pinball software, which is what started the conversation with ss-pinball. Overall, I enjoy FP2 on my tablet, but I do not like the ramp shot very much. I have never played an FP2 "in the flesh", so I don't know if I like it enough to want to buy it and spend 100 hours plus to disassemble and analyze the software.
The problem with modding system 7 game software is that there is very little space in the ROM to begin with. (Jungle Lord literally had zero bytes free and I managed to free fewer than 100 bytes for all my mods.) So what's achievable depends very much on what is already in the ROM somehow. For example I managed to implement a ball saver in Jungle Lord with only a few bytes because there is already something like a ball saver that's part of the original game rules. Implementing a multiball jackpot, like you suggest, is likely beyond what there is space for. Problem is you cannot tell for sure before you have essentially analyzed the entire game ROM.

I'd think a first easy step would be to look at the existing ROM images and content to see how much room there may or may not be, right? My guess is that your previous work with system 7 means that you've got a good understanding of the processor and instruction set. Did you write your own disassembler for the processor?

#302 3 years ago
Quoted from BaumeisterB:

Hace un tiempo, utilicé una de las herramientas de búsqueda de fuentes y determiné que era Eurostile Bold Extended # 2.

Wow thanks a lot, I just finished the file editing the letter with phothos, it looks good, but now with this information im going to re edit the file again, thanks

#303 3 years ago

I just emailed Rick @ PPS to see if this playfield title is available to do.

#304 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Acabo de enviar un correo electrónico a Rick @ PPS para ver si este título de campo de juego está disponible.

let's wait if It could be posible

#305 3 years ago

Does anyone here have scans of the firepower II cabinet?

#306 3 years ago

I don't and don't have the opportunity to scan mine.
The graphics used on the cabinet are identical to Laser Cue, there may be scans of that one.
Perhaps Pinball Pimp (or some other enterprising scanner/ stencil enthusiast) might be prevailed upon to scan either FP2 or Laser Cue to provide stencils/scans since there is a "2 for 1" situation that exists with these titles.
The color palette is different of course.

#307 3 years ago
Quoted from BaumeisterB:

I'd think a first easy step would be to look at the existing ROM images and content to see how much room there may or may not be, right?

That's right. Empty blocks are filled with hex FF. I just checked the ROMS from IPDB: there are not two consecutive bytes filled with FF in the entire game ROM. That's the same in Jungle Lord. I am guessing that the programmers implemented the games and then filled the remainder of the ROM with light and sound effects. I can make some space by removing audit updates and optimizing a few bytes of code here or there, but that likely won't give me more than a few dozen bytes at most and there's not much in terms of rule changes that can be done with that.

Quoted from BaumeisterB:

My guess is that your previous work with system 7 means that you've got a good understanding of the processor and instruction set. Did you write your own disassembler for the processor?

For the Jungle Lord home ROM I used information from Jess Askey's web archive at http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/text/williams_lvl7_programming.html. More recently I have written my own disassembler and compiler for System 7 - 11 code. One of the main benefits is that the compiler can optimize source code to make some free space available.

#308 3 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

No tengo ni tengo la oportunidad de escanear el mío.
Los gráficos utilizados en el gabinete son idénticos a los de Laser Cue, puede haber escaneos de ese.
Quizás Pinball Pimp (o algún otro entusiasta emprendedor de escáneres / plantillas) podría ser convencido para escanear FP2 o Laser Cue para proporcionar plantillas / escaneos ya que existe una situación de "2 por 1" que existe con estos títulos.
La paleta de colores es diferente, por supuesto.

I do not have my machine with me right now, but in case of not finding scans I will do mine, I will be updating what happens around here

#309 3 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

No tengo ni tengo la oportunidad de escanear el mío.
Los gráficos utilizados en el gabinete son idénticos a los de Laser Cue, puede haber escaneos de ese.
Quizás Pinball Pimp (o algún otro entusiasta emprendedor de escáneres / plantillas) podría ser convencido para escanear FP2 o Laser Cue para proporcionar plantillas / escaneos ya que existe una situación de "2 por 1" que existe con estos títulos.
La paleta de colores es diferente, por supuesto.

with someone having a high quality scan, only changing the colors is not a big deal, although if it will be difficult to scan, any ideas on how to scan?

#310 3 years ago
Quoted from idealjoker:

I just checked the ROMS from IPDB: there are not two consecutive bytes filled with FF in the entire game ROM.

@idealjoker, just curious but why don't you jumper the MPU board to include mapping $D000-$D7FF at one of the ROM sockets with a larger EPROM gaining you another $800 bytes?

#311 3 years ago

sent a pm to rick to see if this playfield is available to be made

#312 3 years ago

@quench, I have not done this with Jungle Lord because I wanted to make a Home ROM that is easy for others to install, and because I found other ways to free sufficient space for what I wanted to do with the game. But you are correct, of course, expanding the system-7 ROM space is easy enough. What's really stopping me from getting my teeth into the FPII code is that I do not have access to a copy of this game and I do not like working with emulators.

#313 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

envió un pm a Rick para ver si este campo de juego está disponible para ser creado

Will it be? just wait for an answer

#314 3 years ago

would it be possible for someone to create some graphics for the firepower II gabite?

#315 3 years ago

Well, I have seen that the design as you say ss-pinball is the same as the laser cue, and I saw that for the original firepower someone created an alternative design (more faithful to the F-14 jets AND space theme)

#316 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

Well, I have seen that the design as you say ss-pinball is the same as the laser cue, and I saw that for the original firepower someone created an alternative design (more faithful to the F-14 jets AND space theme)

the new Firepower decals (for the original) are spectacular.

Pinball Pimp in Florida may have a suggestion about how to scan a cabinet...there may even be some suggestions on the forum as they discuss more popular machines.

I would think that it might be smarter to pursue the standard scans...I've made some inquiries about bumper caps on the Laser Cue club page. Seems like if we focus on the common, shard design elements, we may have more luck getting pieces made so we can restore and upgrade our machines.
Remember, cost IS going to be a factor no matter what. theoretically there are more people interested in the stencils for either of these machines rather than custom decals for just our title. Same things with pop bumper caps and any other common parts.

#317 3 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

las nuevas calcas de Firepower (para el original) son espectaculares.
Pinball Pimp en Florida puede tener una sugerencia sobre cómo escanear un gabinete ... incluso puede haber algunas sugerencias en el foro, ya que hablan sobre máquinas más populares.
Creo que sería más inteligente seguir los escaneos estándar ... Hice algunas preguntas sobre las tapas de los parachoques en la página del club Laser Cue. Parece que si nos centramos en los elementos comunes de diseño de fragmentos, es posible que tengamos más suerte al hacer piezas para poder restaurar y actualizar nuestras máquinas.
Recuerde, el costo va a ser un factor sin importar qué. en teoría, hay más personas interesadas en las plantillas para cualquiera de estas máquinas en lugar de en las calcomanías personalizadas solo para nuestro título. Lo mismo ocurre con las tapas de los parachoques y cualquier otra pieza común.

Fortunately, the size of the pop bumpers can be said to be universal, so it is only a question of recreating the design perfectly or scanning them.
The cabinet I am currently creating my own stencils, with the original design, I am not very expert in this so I can not create a new design for the cabinet, I contacted the created of the new design of the original firepower, to see if there is any chance i make one for the firepower 2

#318 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

Afortunadamente, se puede decir que el tamaño de los parachoques pop es universal, por lo que solo es cuestión de recrear el diseño a la perfección o escanearlos.
El gabinete actualmente estoy creando mis propias plantillas, con el diseño original, no soy muy experto en esto por lo que no puedo crear un nuevo diseño para el gabinete, me comuniqué con el creado del nuevo diseño de la potencia de fuego original, para ver si hay alguna posibilidad de que haga uno para la potencia de fuego 2

Personally, I would like that pieces more faithful to the art and theme of the game could be created, since Williams apparently put more his typical W logo on these machines than any drawing or design of the machine.
Many people here have made their modifications to give the theme more style, so the pop bumper or gabite could be a new design or the original, although as you say, with limited units, because not everyone will want or be able to access these, I think

#319 3 years ago

Just talked with Rick PPS & the title is available. See if we can move forward with new playfields this winter.

#320 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Just talked with Rick PPS & the title is available. See if we can move forward with new playfields this winter.

Nice! Mine is trashed.

#321 3 years ago

Waiting on the art to go to the printer. Rick PPS has suggested to get the colors adjusted to plastics. So for em playfields the printer will do a test print, adjust the colors if needed towards what was done for plastics (new). So if this one moves forward with good art, I will look for good plastics & a donor for cnc.

#322 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Esperando que el arte vaya a la imprenta. Rick PPS ha sugerido ajustar los colores a los plásticos. Entonces, para los campos de juego, la impresora hará una impresión de prueba, ajustará los colores si es necesario a lo que se hizo para los plásticos (nuevo). Entonces, si este avanza con buen arte, buscaré buenos plásticos y un donante para cnc.

Like I said, the art is already set, can't wait for the test print to come out

#323 3 years ago

Could someone give me the exact measurements of the cabinet and the whole machine itself? cabinet, box, etc

#324 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Just talked with Rick PPS & the title is available. See if we can move forward with new playfields this winter.

Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Waiting on the art to go to the printer. Rick PPS has suggested to get the colors adjusted to plastics. So for em playfields the printer will do a test print, adjust the colors if needed towards what was done for plastics (new). So if this one moves forward with good art, I will look for good plastics & a donor for cnc.

This is excellent news.

#325 3 years ago
Quoted from nglayton:

Ésta es una excelente noticia.

More than excellent

#326 3 years ago

Still waiting on the art for a test print. Here are the latest Seawitch playfields after finish clear coats. My contractor uses a quick hardner & then 2 coats of auto Omni (not water based).

IMG_0117 (resized).JPGIMG_0117 (resized).JPGIMG_0118 (resized).JPGIMG_0118 (resized).JPG
#327 3 years ago
Quoted from idealjoker:

That's right. Empty blocks are filled with hex FF. I just checked the ROMS from IPDB: there are not two consecutive bytes filled with FF in the entire game ROM. That's the same in Jungle Lord. I am guessing that the programmers implemented the games and then filled the remainder of the ROM with light and sound effects. I can make some space by removing audit updates and optimizing a few bytes of code here or there, but that likely won't give me more than a few dozen bytes at most and there's not much in terms of rule changes that can be done with that.

For the Jungle Lord home ROM I used information from Jess Askey's web archive at http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/text/williams_lvl7_programming.html. More recently I have written my own disassembler and compiler for System 7 - 11 code. One of the main benefits is that the compiler can optimize source code to make some free space available.

Interesting stuff, thanks! Would you be willing to share the disassembler and compiler? Is this for *nix platforms or Windows?

#328 3 years ago
Quoted from BaumeisterB:

Would you be willing to share

To make this useful I will first have to write documentation. Williams System 7 to 11 games are programmed in a mixture of M6800 assembly and a byte code interpreted by a virtual machine. For my tools (7eleven) I invented a human-readable language for the disassembled code mixture. There is no documentation for my version of this language.

However, there are tools and documentation available for system 7 games. For Jungle Lord (new tricks) I used Jess Askey's PinBuilder (http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/). Jess' tools include a disassembler with example configurations for several system 7 games. Not all of the documentation is completely clear. I am happy to provide clarification and additional explanations.

#329 3 years ago

Playfield art has been printed. See what it looks like towards new playfields. I do have the green light from Rick PPS if things look good.

#330 3 years ago

Prints look good just needs a little more work.

#331 3 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Prints look good just needs a little more work.

Of course, as I said, the file will be further refined

#332 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

Of course, as I said, the file will be further refined

Are you both referring to the same file?

#333 3 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

¿Ambos se refieren al mismo archivo?

Of course!

#334 3 years ago

Home now we are having a big snow storm today. The same file got printed out twice, since one special was done in Spanish especial. Looks very nice but needs a little tweaking. If everything looks good I will reach out to Rick from PPS to move forward. He has me down for this playfield project this spring if we get everything right this winter.

#335 3 years ago

The file continues to be edited.
Looking at the advertisement flyers of the machine, I noticed two things:

1-This I do not know if it is due to the lighting but it seems that the bumpers lack the W, I could rule out that it was lighting because being normal bulbs these should not completely eliminate the mark, although it may only be the photo

2-I have seen that there are very few machines that lack the plastic 31-521-15, I do not think it is because the owners remove it, because in the official announcement it is shown without it, this leads me to think that the versions vary and that There are machines that come like this from the factory, is the same with the objective of Relase Locked Ball because it is round while some of us know that it is more square in some machines

What do you think?
Fire2annou (resized).pngFire2annou (resized).png

#336 3 years ago

I realize this is a tall order but anyway...

Parts - Wanted
Wanted! - “As stated”
2021-03-12
Richmond, VA
Wanted
Archived after: 60 days
Viewed: 97 times
Status: Sold (amount undisclosed)
Contributed to Pinside

#337 3 years ago
Quoted from Clytor:

I realize this is a tall order but anyway...

I have a Hyperball head. They look similar.

Parts - Wanted

Firepower 2 back box light/display panel insert

New!

Wanted! “As stated”

4 hours ago

Richmond, VA

Wanted

Clytor

#338 3 years ago

I have scans of the cabinet, of the stencils, you paint it and paste the stencils and it would be the same or similar

#339 3 years ago
Hyperball head is very very close. Close enough that you can use it.

#340 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

Looking at the advertisement flyers of the machine, I noticed two things:
1-This I do not know if it is due to the lighting but it seems that the bumpers lack the W, I could rule out that it was lighting because being normal bulbs these should not completely eliminate the mark, although it may only be the photo

2-I have seen that there are very few machines that lack the plastic 31-521-15, I do not think it is because the owners remove it, because in the official announcement it is shown without it, this leads me to think that the versions vary and that There are machines that come like this from the factory, is the same with the objective of Relase Locked Ball because it is round while some of us know that it is more square in some machines
What do you think?

I think the picture for the flyer was taken early during production, so they could get started advertising and selling units.

They just so happen to grab a playfield that wasn't complete with all the plastics.
Then later they decided it needed some more logos and swapped out the bumper caps and finished the plastics install.

According to "The Pinball Resource" - the "Release Lock Ball" target is supposed to be square.
Mine needed replaced a while back and we had to have quite a discussion about it. Supposedly the part number listed has always shown a square target. Never round.

#341 3 years ago
Quoted from nglayton:

Creo que la imagen del volante se tomó al principio de la producción, para que pudieran comenzar a anunciar y vender unidades.
Da la casualidad de que agarran un campo de juego que no estaba completo con todos los plásticos.
Luego, más tarde, decidieron que necesitaba más logotipos y cambiaron las tapas de los parachoques y terminaron la instalación de plásticos.
De acuerdo con "The Pinball Resource", se supone que el objetivo de "Release Lock Ball" es cuadrado.
El mío necesitaba ser reemplazado hace un tiempo y tuvimos que tener una buena discusión al respecto. Supuestamente, el número de pieza enumerado siempre ha mostrado un objetivo cuadrado. Nunca redondee.

Yes, although as in the original it has always been circular, I thought that versions could vary the same, I have seen that there are some machines that have a chrome door while others are black, it is something about the Australian version, right?

#342 3 years ago
Quoted from Clytor:

I realize this is a tall order but anyway...
Parts - Wanted
Firepower 2 back box light/display panel insert

Ebay...........it's been listed for a long time. Pretty crappy and expensive.

ebay.com link: Williams Firepower II Pinball Machine Game Backglass 2

#343 3 years ago
Quoted from nglayton:

Ebay...........it's been listed for a long time. Pretty crappy and expensive.
ebay.com link » Williams Firepower Ii Pinball Machine Game Backglass 2

I could use one of those for the short term too. What I'm mainly looking for the wooden panel that the back box lights and displays sit on.

1 week later
#344 3 years ago

I am making headway getting this machine dialed in. The only shot that’s wonky now is a hard shot from the left flipper heads up to right orbit. For some reason the way it hits that long metal gate, it causes it to move downward slightly which then causes the ball to basically stop as it hits it, and not make it back up top..
Any ideas. Was thinking maybe it’s just too loose?

#345 3 years ago
Quoted from Clytor:

I could use one of those for the short term too. What I'm mainly looking for the wooden panel that the back box lights and displays sit on.

Have you guys checked for parted out Rollergames and Laser Cue machines? There are likely a few others...there's also a heads and cabinets thread for people looking for parts...it might we worthwhile to check that one out.

#346 3 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

I am making headway getting this machine dialed in. The only shot that’s wonky now is a hard shot from the left flipper heads up to right orbit. For some reason the way it hits that long metal gate, it causes it to move downward slightly which then causes the ball to basically stop as it hits it, and not make it back up top..
Any ideas. Was thinking maybe it’s just too loose?

I think geometry is the main issue there. That's a tight shot. If that long gate was another 3/4 - 1 inch in length it would run better.
However, on mine, that gate is fairly tight, it will actually trap a slow roller coming around the orbit from the other direction. I can usually bump it loose, but it's a fine line.

I never try to make that shot from the left flipper to the upper lanes, I'm always trying to get the ball captured or shot the gap to release the previously captured ball.

#347 3 years ago

That is a very odd angle and I honestly don’t think Mark intended for the player to make that shot. It really does not do anything.

#348 3 years ago
Quoted from nglayton:

I think geometry is the main issue there. That's a tight shot. If that long gate was another 3/4 - 1 inch in length it would run better.
However, on mine, that gate is fairly tight, it will actually trap a slow roller coming around the orbit from the other direction. I can usually bump it loose, but it's a fine line.
I never try to make that shot from the left flipper to the upper lanes, I'm always trying to get the ball captured or shot the gap to release the previously captured ball.

I believe You are right if it was a bit longer gate I don’t think the ball would cause the it to move enough to bump it down. I will fiddle a little with it but won’t expect much

#349 3 years ago

I’ve played fp2 allot lately trying to make sure the game plays as it should after pulling the pf. I’ve also had a strong affinity for system 7’s , and even though from just looking at what the fp2 game has on it, I would have thought it came out before bk, pharaoh , jungle lord and solar fire. But I do feel fp2 is a great player. I’ve yet to get a great score, and my only complaint would be the ramp shot being kind of clunky for me For the amount of precision the ramp shot takes , I wish it was worth more even when the mystery isn’t lit. Definitely an under appreciated title IMO

#350 3 years ago

If you want to join the club, I noticed this on the "Project Pins" thread...
please note this estate sale was listed by a pinsider who sets up a search.
Neither of us have any info about the machine.
If you are interested, I'd contact the estate sale company to inquire.
My guess is that it has been sitting in that basement for quite a while.
Might be a gem; might not.

https://www.estatesales.net/NY/Orchard-Park/14127/2776548

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 52.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 22.50
Magazines/books
Pinball Magazine
Magazines/books
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
Pinball Machine
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
Led
$ 20.00
Playfield - Protection
arcade-cabinets.com
Protection
$ 69.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
From: $ 9.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
Boards
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
Tools
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 11.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
There are 562 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 12.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-ii-loungemembers-and-fans-/page/7?hl=waxon and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.