(Topic ID: 70775)

The Firepower Club

By wiredoug

5 years ago

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  • 3,127 posts
  • 275 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by someotherguy
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#1506 2 years ago

Hello Firepower folks! This is Bruce from Outside Edge.... and we are working on a project for PPS to produce shiny new back glasses. Through our research and provided specimens from the field we have (for about the millionth time) uncovered apparent variations that exist in the originals. This leaves us troubled, as there will only be a run produced to match one or the other. Look at my picture..... I have actually seen more of the "dark red" versions so far than the more "bright red" ... leading me to believe the darker is probably the one that there are more of (and possibly expected by the would be buyer)..... HOWEVER... I have traded emails with Greg Freres... and he believes that the BRIGHTER glass is what was intended. I also have to agree that the bright red is a better looking glass.

That being said... please respond with some opinions as to which we should match. I am either going to disappoint the "dark red" camp... or the "bright red camp" ... but I have o choose one.

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#1508 2 years ago
Quoted from McSquid:

Bright red looks better.
No love for Firepower 2?

It's not about love.. it's about orders In order to produce... I need to have an order to do so. I would love to produce that also though! Maybe someday soon.

#1529 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Note: you have the opportunity to fix some of the
---- blotched halftoning that is present in the backglass.
---- Some of the blotchings is on purpose. Others on the
---- other hand are due to over saturated silk screen ink/
---- mesh layup.
Note: The backglass is silk screened with diluted opaque inks
---- that is how they get the luminosity to let light through.
---- But, due to the dilution, it also made the halftones get blotchy
---- with each silk screening pass.
Please do this game's artwork some justice.

Thanks! This is not our first rodeo (or fifth for that matter). We have reproduced (under license) over 100 titles of back glasses. We produce many other pinball products I am sure you have seen as well. Most have never heard of us because we only deal with companies (B2B). We are a very experienced screen shop (also, litho, digital and more). The issues related to poor printing will be addressed. You need only worry that we choose the version of colors that most prefer.

... and yes, Firepower is among some of the worst quality printing I have seen from the originals.... period. wow.

#1541 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

I thought I saw in the other thread that they would be mirrored but when I went there is doesn't say. Are these new glasses mirrored?

Yes, they will be mirrored.

#1545 2 years ago
Quoted from Madal:

Are you makeing the glass thick as the original or thinner like the repo?
Looking at my glass i go for the dark red.
Would you be shipping too Australia?

We ALWAYS match OEM glass thickness (as Firepower will be). If you find one that is thinner.. rest assured that we did not produce. We do not sell these direct either. They must be ordered from PPS or one of their many resellers. I am sure someone ships the the land down under.

#1559 2 years ago

Also ... We are currently working on a Firepower Hardtop! If you are not up to speed with what I am reffering to, check out the multiple Hardtop threads.

The Hardtop is all new, and not like anything else ever offered.

I just wanted to let you all know!

3 months later
#1791 1 year ago

Well, the supplier in question is me. From the looks of the photos you posted... it looks like we had an employee that clearly was not paying attention and shipped you a faulty part. We call them “make ready” parts... never intended to ship, obviously. Sorry about the mistake! We (as we always do) wil get you out a good glass.

One remark I will make regarding the red though.... we spent an absorbant amount of time and effort reseaching the “correct red” for this title. What we found is that this glass was ran at least 2 times ... and maybe 3 times with different vendors during the original run. Greg Freres directly agreed that this happened from time to time and the color accuracy BETWEEN vendors was not always front burner. Basically I found after looking at many games and closely examining.. I belleive there are at least 2 reds that are different yet can be considered original.

Again, sorry Rick and to you for the woopsy. Simply email us if you experience an issue like this.. and we will correct problems.

Thanks for your patience!

2 weeks later
#1811 1 year ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

Received the replacement backglass today, a lot faster this time, impressive (it's the holidays).
Again, thanks to Rick, Bruce, David and everyone involved.
Amazing customer service, super fast communication and solution.
And i gotta say, it's night and day compare to the first one i received.
buy with confidence people!

So glad you got it, and are happy! Sorry again for that... I am pretty sure a set up glass got actually packaged. Silly mistake after a lot of hard work to create a quality repro.. The employee reponsible was spoken to.

1 week later
#1853 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballfan68:

Hello all, just excitedly opened my pps package with a new Kiss and FP backglass, found a few issues, when unlit they look amazing but when under light is when you see some unsatisfactory blemishes. I think a little more quality control should have been put in as part of the process. The colours are not exact and I can kind of live with that, but if we are replacing original bg with repros to enhance our pins esthetics, I would have thought with today's technology, the artwork would turn out much better and there wouldn't be streaks during the silk screening process, my original doesn't. Seems like the ink is just a bit more faint or diluted as compared to the original. We have waited many years for these to come out and I'm not as happy as I thought I would be. I'm hoping this is only the first of a few to have these issues and hope they look into making them better and hope pps will look into this with the supplier.

Bruce here. This may get lengthy, so bear with me and please read this all to try to understand.
First, let it be known (as stated by others) that if you received a product that has flaws we will do what ever it takes to get you taken care of.
Now, lets go to printing school for a momment:
The late 70s into the early 80s 4 color process glasses are hands down the HARDEST glasses to recreate... period.
In order to understand why these are tough.. ine must has to have a thourough understanding of differences between spot color titles (example Blackout) and 4 color process titles like (Kiss, eightball delexe etc).
To recreate film positives from already printed “process” art where the original positives no longer survive is virtually impossible if the goal is an “exact” duplicate is desired, yet we have developed a way to accomplish that nobody we are aware of has accomplished. I am also a collector and know exactly what I am looking at when presented with a glass as to wether its a repro or not.. and frankly what ink was used due to my decades of commercial printing background.

To make references to the originals and say that these don’t exactly match would be true, I suppose in process instances. However, I am confident in stating these glasses are REALLY REALLY close to the known originals we had a specimines to copy. I am saying it that way because it’s a known fact that the origianl glasses on many many titles were also NOT all the same. We somestimes even gather 2-3 glasses to look at color variations in originals not even considering fade.. which obviously is another factor we always consider.

Kiss is a “process” glass. We will take care of you if you received a glass with issues.That title was a **tch to print.. and not to throw any other suppliers under the bus.... I know of another conpany who has tried recreating process pinball projects in the past with WIDLY off colors... and I know why. I will not site examples, as I respect that company and know how hard it is to accomplish.

In the end, most collectors just “assume” these are just not a big deal to recreate... give it a whirl.. I dare you. Speciic to process titles. We have 200 employees and millions and millions dollars worth of state of the art equipment on the floor with collectivly hundreds of years of experience behind us. Kiss took 6+ weeks to iron out from virtually nothing but old glass examples.

Now, I can admit me may have an employee that packed (2 total so far)
Glasses that should not have shipped! I apologize for that.

I personally regret the fact that folks choose to use this forum to “race to the top of the hill” and shout out each and every issue with even attempting to first contact Rick (and I ) to see if we had a mistake occur.

No threat intended here.. but just be informed that there is no line of suppliers dying to produce pain in the ass to recreate projects like this that actually have the knowledge and equipment to donthe work the way it needs done. I mean that... there are a few of us, thats it.

Now, I cannot tell exactly from the photos,
But I can see obvious ink film opacitiy issues on your glass. However, I ccanot tell (as they are quite close up) if you are blasting this from behind with unreasonablly bright and certainly NOT realistic light levels found from LEDs in areas that are actually intended to be lit. In other words,
When installed IN the machine... does this issue show at all??

Firepower specifilc comment:
This title had easily, the WORST quality original print job I have ever seen that left the pinball factories with several ORIGINAL variations of color and art.
It was a real crap glass as far as quality and consistancy (originals). That being said, we did see some that were printed decent. Our problem (well documented on this site)
was that we had to chose which one to repro in the way of color. We did choose and our colors MATCH.

At any rate, sorry you had an issue.
I have your email that you sent Rick.. and I will reach out this week to get more information to get you satisfied.

Folks... for real.. just contact us with an issue and give PInside a rest until we get to a point you feel like we can’t satisfy you.
Then blast away, of course.

This is not as easy as some of you assume.


Outside Edge

#1854 1 year ago

.. and sorry for typos, as I type on my teeny tiny phone... I am traveling

1 year later
#3055 39 days ago

Hi Firepower members! I wanted to let you know we are getting back up to speed with Hardtop production slowly. We have 2 in stock ready to ship if anyone has an interest. Since we will not be going live on our site for a bit yet... just PM me with your email address, ship to address and name. Cost is still 298.00


3 weeks later
#3079 18 days ago
Quoted from airplanequartet:

How do you accommodate the star rollovers with the hard top?

That is all covered via youtube at this point. It actually is quite simple. Any star rollover is final sized post install for a perfect fit. We ship any star rollover hole undersized to be finished by the installer.

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