I also have the brick bottom. In addition, mine seems to have a strange cheap perfume like scent coming from there, noticable whenever the coin door is open or the playfield is raised. Don't really look forward to pulling the playfield up.

I'm wondering if this is just with mine or if anyone else's has this scent that may be from that particular material?

Ok, someone has sprayed deodorizer in my cab at some point, will try to get rid if it...

I found around 5.2 just right on my Firepower. Tried around 6 to 6.5 which is what seems to be the recommended setting.

Found the shot to the top lock impossible at 6.5 & also at around 6 when cradling the ball & I also felt that it was generally too fast around the flipper area to control the ball properly.

My flippers are fully rebuit with 38 to 40 volts present & are very powerful.

At 5.2 can make the distance to the lock no problem when cradling the ball, but still is a difficult shot. (How it should be)

One adjustment I made that made the most difference to the shot was changing the angle of the flippers, moving them in a downward direction with the bottom of the bat pretty much lining up to the factory hole guides (without rubbers on). Before i made this this flipper adjustment I could not make the lock from a cradled ball even at 5.2.

To the eye, the flipper angles almost don't look right, a bit too much downward angle, but I think this is correct with the hole guides, more importantly makes the shot set there.

I found when I checked the angles on my Bally games, which I had only ever set up the angles by what felt right & not by measuring angles before, i found they were all around 5 degrees.

I wonder about using a lithium back-up battery in a williams system 6 (or other) safety wise.

I had a situation where my gorgar AA batteries were going bad only after a few months of replacement & had started too leak, turns out the blocking diode had failed & so the batteries received a charge causing them to fail & leak.

If you have a lithium battery as a back-up & the blocking diode fails allowing the battery to recieve a constant charge, from what I have read these batteries have a high possibility of exploding if charged.

So in essence reliance is solely on the blocking diode as the only safety measure?

I imagine these batteries are used in many other devices as a back-up power from new & I guess their is a safety measure in place so the battery does not get charged, maybe just a blocking diode?

One gameplay difference between the proto & stand-up target version according to the flyer is only one bank of three drop targets needs to be made to light the shield as opposed to both banks of the stand-up targets needed to light the shield feature on the regular production version.

Unless it is a factory setting that can be changed for only one bank needed to light the shield?

JPD has a new CPR FP playfield for sale, not marked as sold yet.

http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/80519-FIREPOWER-playfield

I think any differences are because they are from a different batch and maybe some colour changes over time on your original. It is definitely an original & not a repro/re-run as stated because it is the same thickness & weight as the original & not on thinner glass as the re-runs were. The Williams official backglass re-run (as has been mentioned & can be seen) has the solid yellow colour behind the lettering & also the wings on the jets are a much lighter blue on the repro compared to the original.

I was looking at buying that NOS backglass, but I was concerned about the fact the seller hadn't shipped a glass before & also the final cost (after factoring the cost of a third party freight forwarder) to get it to Australia would have been about $700.00!

Actually, as far as re-runs on Firepower backglass go, there was yet another earlier official Williams Firepower backglass re-run done sometime in the 80s. (I have one) That one is almost identical to the original except was on screened on thinner glass & one difference with the graphics, the "Firepower" lettering & some borders are pink instead of red!

Here is an example of one of these that sold on ebay recently, the pink seen is not the red faded, that's how they were made. The ink on these re-runs glasses was sealed, that's why that one looks so nice without any flaking like most of the originals.

ebay.com link: Pinball machine Williams fire power backglass Bally Williams Gottlieb Stern

Thanks for the review on the Firepower protector, cupped inserts are a big problem with my Firepower with the 1-20 cupped inserts in particular affecting the ball trajectory significantly causing a drain. I was hoping the protector would help this as an alternative to removing all the inserts & filling/sanding them ect.

Mata Hari is another game with a similar frustrating problem with the bonus inserts.

Keen to hear a review on how it plays. I plan to do one soon, I have a spare Firepower playfield I bought for a retrofit & now have all the parts I need now to do it.

Thanks for the review & vid. previously all I had really heard was it played slower with drops, glad it's not the case. lots of positives compared to stand-ups. The fast ball rebound from the rubber when the target is dropped is great too. I hadn't thought of that. I have the siegecraft boards for mine too, glad to hear they are efficient.

I have the lighter coloured glass, which actually look more pink, maybe faded over time. However, mine is an official Williams repro backglass that was done around 1988 I understand, it's easy to tell, as the glass is thinner than the original.

Bruce, if both those examples you have shown have glass the same thickness, then their must have been the two colour variations from new. If the lighter coloured version backglass has thinner glass, then that also is one of the Williams 80's repros & not an original.

Nearly every Firepower backglass I have seen is the darker red version, including a NOS glass sold here a few months ago.

I much prefer the dark red, I think the lighter red will look too light backlit. I certainly don't like how mine looks. I think it is important to make comparisons when backlit. I tend to agree the lighter red looks better laid out on a table next to the dark red, but backlit the red looks nicer (to me anyway).

Here is how mine looks...

IMG_7415 (resized).JPG
IMG_7402 (resized).JPG
IMG_7416 (resized).JPG
IMG_7417 (resized).JPG

They may still have some, but they look quite different to an original, with the main difference being a solid yellow behind the Firepower lettering. Their has been a need ever since to get a spot on repro.

This is how the Mayfair version looks...

firepower glass new (resized).jpg

Looking at the Firepower flyer, the backglass looks like the orange version...

I have just done a retrofit, love it with drop targets. I agree with all your points. The only extras I would add is:

In particular, just catching the edge of drop 6 with the ball continuing through to the lock when it's lit, especially when it is the last lock to release multiball. I could never do this shot with stand ups.

As you complete the last lock (any lock) for multiball, both banks reset before the countdown, just sounds & looks nice/right.

I have noticed that sometimes only when in multiball one target, usually the same one, but not always, does not register. The contacts are solid & work 100% when not in multiball.

Have you noticed this? I did see another youtube vid with a Firepower with drops, & noticed one of the targets also didn't register when in multiball.

I have used a tiny amount of teflon grease on the contacts, I am wondering if it is better to run them dry? not sure if that has anything to do with it.

That's really great to hear.

Received my repro Firepower backglass the other day, Looks fantastic, top quality work, waited a long time for a correct repro, love it, thanks to outsidedge & Rick.

That answers my question, looks great with the leds in terms of even lighting & spread & the coloured leds enhance the backglass nicely. I found using the #47 globes I already had in my game with the repro backglass the filament in the globes shone through, creating sort of hot spots just with the filaments as can be seen as dots in the pic if you look on the jet wings & Firepower letters.

So easily adjusted with leds to get the lighting perfect.

As I stated in an earlier post, mine looks excellent overall.

IMG_7046 (resized).JPG

Overall I am very happy with my new repro backglass, I think the colours are generally really great both unlit & lit & certainly as good as you will get compared to others I have seen. One thing I noticed however on mine was using standard #47 bulbs all the filaments of the bulbs could be seen through the glass, as spots which I found it a bit distracting to otherwise a perfect backglass & I just wanted to try to get the lighting looking spot on for me.

I tried warm white leds which stood out more, in the end I tried white bulb caps/condoms on all the #47 bulbs, this worked great, it diffused the filament spotting, I think it looks spot on now.

I did a comparison with just switching the bulbs behind the "E & R" letters only.

First pic is general lighting with the caps on.

Second pic is with leds (bright spots that can be seen in the middle of the letters are not reflections & the letters went a bit pink too)

Third pic is with #47 bulbs with caps on, (caps are on the other bulbs as well) looks perfect

Fourth pic is with straight #47 bulbs (bright spots that can be seen in the middle of the letters are not reflections)

Fifth pic is an overall shot with the caps on the #47 globes, looks excellent (their are some reflections)

IMG_7211 (resized).JPG
IMG_7210 (resized).JPG
IMG_7191 (resized).JPG
IMG_7193 (resized).JPG

IMG_7217 (resized).JPG

Yes that looks worse from that pic, it is more noticeable in person than the pic, the majority of the other backboard bulb filaments can be seen to a degree as well which makes it distracting, or maybe I am just too fussy! I tend to look for perfection where possible, which I have found with this backglass lighting.

The thin white mask is exactly what I wasn’t happy with. Whether using leds & incandescent globes their was the distracting pinpointing as a result.

To address the pinpointing from the globes (I have used incandescent globes) you need to install condoms on all the globes. Looks fine then. Only thing is it dims the brightness of the backglass overall a bit.

I agree, that would be great. I have opted for the next best thing - two Firepower playfields, One with stand ups & one with drop targets. It only take a few minutes to swap them over. I have to say both play very differently, I much prefer the drops.

I did the conversion as per the link above (from Mark's pinball pages). The code for the drop target bank reset coils exists in the programming for all the production games. Also the drop target reset coil wiring is present in the backbox up to the playfield connector (but wiring & terminals are not present in the playfield connector & loom).

You can see on the Firepower flyer the game has drop targets, but was changed in production to stand ups due to unreliability of the drops I believe.

After playing the game with drops for sometime I find the flow of the ball feels right, to me, hitting the stand ups the ball is too random in trajectory & too fast on the rebound, quite often no control of the ball. Hitting the drops you can control the ball or predict where it will go. This feels like it should be the way the game plays.

Gameplay with the drops still plays plenty fast enough. Does not feel slow, especially when you get a rebound from the rubber on a dropped target.

If unsure, I think the best idea would be to do the conversion without the cut outs for the 10 point switches, that way you can gauge how you like it, if you don't you can reverse it. If you prefer you can do the cut outs later as it's permanent.

All you need is any system 3-6 drop target assemblies (not system 7 or later) you can buy the correct Firepower prototype decals for them easily from a few vendors.

I actually cut down a 5 bank target bank to a 3 bank, result is the same, gives a bit more scope on finding some used banks (either a 3, 4 or 5 bank will work).

Another thing to consider is using setting up a double horseshoe wiper for the targets. One regular horseshoe wiper with the two contacts, doubled up with another contactless horseshoe wiper behind it, increasing the tension (x2), you can simply file off the contacts or carefully drill the back side of the contacts on an existing wiper for the back one. a single horseshoe will go out of adjustment easily, this is the big problem with them.

In a year or so since I did the conversion & used double wipers I haven't needed to adjust my horseshoe connectors once & that's with plenty of games played. The targets also drop fine with the extra tension, no need to change the springs, I think the originals just didn't have the right tension for reliability.

I also tried the new wipers that are available & I found using a single one they also soon went out of adjustment, tension wise, so I prefer doubled up original wipers.

You can see the pics of the doubled up wipers here & some more info...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-drop-target-wiring-help-needed

I had never noticed that! yes, the blue edge overhangs with the drops. It doesn't look right, I'm going to have to find a used pair of plastics & cut them down & create the clear border at the front edge.
P1030387 (resized).JPG

Looks like their was one difference with the prototype art on the left target plastic - their is the word "try"on it where production plastics are blank there

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=856&picno=66360

+1

My scores really are not that different from playing before with the stand ups, I find it's still hard, I can't master it, I just find it's basically more fun & flows better with drops, but subjective of course.

I hadn't noticed that either - interesting.

Looks like Kevin at CPR is going to make some of the prototype drop target playfield plastics that will be added to new repro sets when done.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-floodgates-open-plastics-amp-glasses-releases/page/7#post-4521235

post # 303.

That's great!

Looking at the word "'try" that is on the prototype left target plastic here, it's strange as it is not on other prototype plastics their are pics of, or on the plastic depicted on the flyer which is blank, different font to the rest as well, but it definitely looks like it's factory screened & not done by someone adding the custom font somehow? They must have just tried a few with the word & dropped the idea? But it does look right to me.
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=856&picno=66361&zoom=1

I also found with the Planetary repro the ink was thin causing obvious spotting. I placed the white condom/caps on the #47 globes, the end result looked pretty much spot on to how it should to me, only slightly dimmer overall due to the caps. The colours seemed to be correct on my glass. Very happy with it, I prefer this version.

double post

Here is how the Planetary backglass looks with #47 incandescants (without condoms on the globes). Looks close to the original IMO, if you don't like the spotting like you can see in this pic install the condoms on the globes to address this.

One other thing I noticed with the Mayfair glass is the jets are a very pale blue when backlit - the Planetary blue looks correct as per original.
IMG_7046 (resized).JPG

Kevin at CPR has just enhanced the Firepower plastic set to now include the prototype version plastics. The proto plastic version is smaller than the stand-up counterparts which is correct for drop setups & also has the word "try" included which is not on production plastics.

If you have a retro-fit you will know how using the bigger standard stand-up target plastics just doesn't look right with the overhang, so these should look great.

https://classicplayfields.com/shop/pinball-plastics/firepower/

They look spot on just like the protos that can be seen here:

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=856&picno=66361

Thanks Kevin!

I remember that style of Eveready batteries form the 80s, so, 30 plus years would be correct. Pretty rare to find a game these days that has been stored for that long, most have been unearthed by now.

The container Gorgar from Germany I bought in 2009 had apparently been in storage since 1985, batteries were out, but with the amount of settled dust, no playfield wear with original shiny factory playfield laquer, original flipper coils & how tight it played seemed consistant with only just a few years of play.

If you want to replace the Backglass at some point, the repros from planetary pinball are excellent.

The CPR repro playfield plastics which now include the Proto version drop target plastics look great! Now looks right with drops.

Above pic is the original prototype plastics (image from ipdb) which are smaller without the blue overhang (that was added for the regular standup targets)

Below pic is mine with the CPR proto plastics.

firepower (resized).png

IMG_0265 (resized).JPG

Hopefully they will have restock the same repros made by outside edge. They are excellent & look very close to an original glass. The only difference I really noticed was spotting, both with #47 globes & with leds. Maybe their was some difference with ink thickness compared to the originals resulting in this.

A bit of spotting wouldn't be an issue for most people, but I am pretty fussy, so I found putting white condoms on all the #47 backglass bulbs fixed the spotting & looked perfect.

it's usually the brick pattern panel.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/2#post-1574679

The power cord is coming out through the left side vent hole which is not correct as it should go through the backbox neck with cord having a loose loop knot to catch in case it's pulled - that most likely routed through there as it's easier when someone replaced the cord.

You can add custom roms to add new rules & also convert to 7 digit displays.

http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/pro_soft.html

Also, if you swap to drop targets (which I would recommend) the latest CPR Firepower playfield plastics sets include the regular stand up target plastics as well as some smaller version prototype plastics for drop targets use.

That seems to be what most people think about the drops - it plays slower therefore not as good, I must be in the minority here, I find that with drops it's fast enough, in fact the speed & flow feels just right as you can predict & control the ball better than with stand ups, furthermore, when you hit the rubber where a target has dropped, it rebounds very fast. With the standups I found the ball rebounded fast which is great but the ball trajectory was unpredictable.

I won't be going back to standups, but of course views on this topic are subjective.

Mine is tight, if I loosen the guide screw, move the guide to the left, hold & tighten, the ball gets stuck, move it to the right & tighten about .8 - 1mm gap, the ball can pass - I think is intentional by design to either have the tight "funnel" effect when draining, or to guide the ball better for when the ball is launched when kicked back.

Their were 2 official repro backglasses make, one in 1996 & another possibly earlier or in the 90s as well? I have one version which the glass is thinner & the "Firepower" lettering at the top is pink not red - not from fade as I read they were printed with pink instead. Otherwise very close to an original. The other has fade on top as clearly orange rather than red (as mentioned)

It appears that Alan Meyer's is the version with the orange fade. I wonder who did the other "pink" version

The pink lettering really bothered me every time I played the game, & knowing it was printed on thin glass added to this as well.

Really happy with the repro glass from PPS. I think the colours are excellent & hard to ultimately compare to an original anyway due to some colour variations in the original glasses produced. The only aspect I could fault was some minor bulb hot spots with using either #47 or LEDs.

Easily overcome with fitting white silicone caps on the #47 globes - the result looks perfect IMO.

3 different chips can be used - all hard to find.

http://www.arcadechips.com/product_info.php?products_id=51

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HC1-55564-5-Harris-Continuously-Variable-Slope-Delta-Modulator-CERDIP-14/202367366535?hash=item2f1e08f587:g:NB4AAOSw91hbRruF

You can find complete target banks on ebay every now & then & they go pretty cheap really - quite often with red targets, Gorgar banks are ideal. Red targets can be bought from Marco. You can also cut down a 5 or 4 bank target as well is you can't find 3 banks. I cut down a 5 bank & you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

It's going to be just as much fun without the 50 point switches if you are not confident to do it & also it can be converted back to stand ups without the cut-outs if you ever wanted to.

I love it with the drops!

The horseshoe contacts/wipers work fine and won't need adjusting for a long time if set up properly. What is important is you have two horseshoe wipers per target - the wiper in the back position is "contactless" & is their just to double the tension - the tension of a single wiper is not enough & usually causes a problem with making good contact after a while.

The target in the pic on the right has the two contact set up which is how they came from the factory.

The other thing is to have the target's wiper(s) tension adjusted right at the point where it still just drops nicely but doesn't visually look to be catching/dragging the target's fall too much. I usually over adjust the tension to start with then reduce the tension until the drop is just right.

I did my conversion a few years ago & I have never had to adjust any of the drop target wipers even once. Personally, I much prefer the way the game plays overall with the drops.

CPR repro sets have the smaller drop target prototype style plastics added in to their complete sets. Sometimes you can just buy a pair of these drop target plastics on their own on Ebay if someone buys a repro set and uses the standard plastics & does not need the extra proto plastics.

Oh yeah, I forgot, on mine, I did replace the boards with the Siegecraft boards which added to making them very reliable overall - I also added a a tiny smear of Teflon lube to the boards too.

As Slochar mentioned a direct hit to a drop rebounds slower than a stand up, however a hit to the rubber where a drop is down bounces back super fast. Overall I find it balances out quite nicely & feels just right.

Yeah, once you know about the added on blue areas at the front it does look tacked on. Also the overhang you get with original plastics & drop targets doesn't look right.

Better to leave that wire you removed in & unplug both 2J2 & 2J3 column & row switch plugs instead from the driver board (that go to the playfield switches) if it starts a game in attract mode then it's a board problem for sure.

Then run self test to the switch test mode & see if their is a stuck switch (with all balls out) if the credit switch number "03" comes up it confirms it's a problem with the driver board & not the playfield switch side. If no stuck switch number shows, issue/short will be on the playfield wiring/switch side.

Yes, that's correct. To rule out switches/wiring 100% I like to separate the two & switch test first up.

It's quite often a column/row 7408 or a 7802 chip that fails in some way. I have had one of the capacitors short in either a column or switch row. Good to test the resistor values & test the associated capacitors as well for a short.

Their is some discussion here about Williams driver board variants.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/strange-type-of-williams-driver-board-5763-09464-00

Yes, a protector will make a massive difference! I have one & make the game so much better to play - the ball glides over the cupped inserts. Particularly as the cupped centre bonus inserts on Firepower in particular tend to track the ball sometimes along the inserts to drain down the centre.

Agree, I much prefer the play with drops too.
The ball speed & trajectory from the drops feels just right to me.