It's a super common problem for the immediate timeline of Firepower and a few other games around it; one of the blades is flipped upside-down so the small point is facing the other blade, instead of the nice large contact side. They'll work OK for quite a while but once it gets funky then nearly no amount of cleaning will make it behave. And he's right; it's...excruciating...to fix ALL of them. But once you start, there's no point in stopping.

Pic attached from pinsider mwsmith who had posted it in another thread regarding this issue.

Richard

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There was an ongoing discussion on this as well in the classic stern club thread and it was pointed out that the drawings in the parts catalogs actually shows the Williams switches incorrect as well.... personally, I feel like a contact face should face a contact face, regardless of what the drawings showed. Maybe the drawings being wrong for a couple years is why they put so many of them together incorrectly.

Like so:
PXL_20201003_013838659 (resized).jpg

And it is infuriating. I end up taking it apart and putting on a new diode because it's just cleaner that way.

I also have been molexing my switches to make them easier to get at. Overkill maybe but I am not good at soldering under a playfield, especially when there are sometimes 4 or 5 wires along with a diode.

In case anyone has a project:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-plastics-partial-set#post-5886074

How'd you do the start button like that? I think mine has just an arcade style switch. I'd love to install a flashing start button like that.

Also, does anyone know where I can find the "Fire" and "Power" plastics that cover the metal by the flippers? I just need those two, but I see entire plastic sets that have them. I just need those two for a reasonable price. Let me know.

FYI - those plastics were not installed originally. They are found as extras in the CPR plastics set.

Yeah I saw that some tables didn't have them so I was assuming it was an aftermarket thing. I'm not sure if this table I'm getting has them, but they aren't installed on it that's for sure. I see a guy on ebay that has 6 pieces from that set, but he's asking like $95 shipped...which is crazy for the small amount of plastics included. If anyone has those two and possibly the larger keychain I would be interested in buying it from them.

It's wired to the game over light in the backbox. Once you start a game it will go out. The other option is to put in a clear button like I did and install a socket inside. I think you can buy flashing single colour LEDs. Mine is a colour changing LED so it cycles on it's own.

You can see it here - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/42#post-4375311

Interesting. That sounds like the way to go. Is there a kit to do that? One that would include the wiring and button? I'm sure I could wire it up, but I don't know exactly what to buy.

I've also been thinking it would be interesting to install a shaker motor that goes off when you lock all 3 balls. The tables lights go crazy and a vibrating would be pretty cool during that time.

That’s how I rigged mine up also:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumpster-firepower/page/7#post-5673349

The illuminated start button is the way to go!

Yeah, that's how I did it. I just put in a start button w/ a light, then tied the light to the Game Over light in the back box.

Mission 213 accomplished!

So swille, I have seen your videos several times and it seemed like a great idea to give voice to your firepower 2, what would have happened if you put the original sound card of the first firepower? I would have done the same right?

I've got a LOT of plastics left over from my refurb, as well as some new plastic lane guides and the original plastic posts. If I put them up for sale as a set would anyone buy them?

If you have the two aftermarket plastics that cover the metal pieces near the flippers. I'd buy those.

That I do not. I only have the original plastics.

I have a loose lockdown bar. Based on looking at it there are probably screws that are supposed to go into these holes to push down on a metal piece. That would hold it down tightly.

What size do I need? Hardware store trip or is it a special type thing I have to get online?

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https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4010-01062-10

#4010-01062-10

Brass slotted machine screw 10-32 thread 5/8 inch long.

Shiny machine ya got there.

Sweet, thanks man. The guy who had it chromed everything. He didn’t do rebuilds on pops or flippers though. I’m about to try my hand at it.

Getting it upstairs tomorrow and then the fun begins.

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Some more pics if you guys are interested. Got it upstairs and in place.

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Brightwork looks sweet.

Picked up a complete Firepower a couple of years ago and was considering doing a hardtop since new playfields again were unobtanium. A couple of weeks ago I was surprised to see Classic Playfield Reproductions (CPR) released a small batch of FP Playfields and even though I was unemployed I immediately ordered one!

Yeah - the wife was super pleased and wildly excited about me finally getting the playfield I've been waiting for.

I'm extremely impressed with the quality of this playfield. (My wife... ...less so.) The clearcoat is flawless, the registration is excellent - a work of art 10/10 - thank you CPR!!
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I was planning to restore my Whitewater first. I have been buying parts for Whitewater for years before owning one and was just about ready to start that.

On receiving this playfield I decided as soon as I finish organizing, cleaning, and preparing my garage, Firepower is getting some love first. (Ok - so I'm thinking it will also be much faster and easier to restore too.)

In any case Firepower is one of my favorite games of all time - I remember when it was released. I was in High School and used to play it at the arcade almost every Saturday night.

I still enjoy playing, but these days restoring games is as much (or more) fun than playing them!

Can't wait to start!

Nice! I'll be doing a similar project over the Winter. I ended up picking up a 2nd Firepower with a brand new CPR playfield. Person had started on it (and did a great job on what was done) but lost interest. So I'll be finishing it up and this one will be my keeper. The other one I had is very nice survivor machine and will probably end up selling or trading that one. At least I'll be able to use the working machine as a reference while finishing the PF swap.

Hey; what's $900 when you're outta work? Peanuts..

Surprised to see they brought that title back. I bet it was a good seller, though. So many trashed Firepowers out there, and such a great game.

Richard

Hoping to get some assistance. I have a Firepower and everything works on it except for the speech. I checked all the troubleshooting guides and before I start changing chips I wanted to get some opinions. This is what I have done so far.

-Made sure the connections were good.
-I checked the dip switch on the sound board and made sure speech is enabled. it is in the proper setting.
-tried adjusting the pot on the speech board.
-I have an extra set of IC5, IC6 and IC7 chips for the speech board, swapped them out one at a time and tested. still no speech. (i am assuming the second set are good)
-Performed the diagnostics and it cycles through the different sounds fine (still no speech in diag mode).
-Tested all the solenoid channels on the sound board and they all work
-Can play the game and it has all the sounds, but no speech

Now, when I unplug the speech board and press the diagnostics on the sound board I don't get any sound at all, which if I read the troubleshooting guide correctly, it may be a problem with the MC6808 chip located in IC9. I don't mind spending the $9 to change it out to see if it fixes it, but wanted to see if it could be anything else.

Thank you in advance for your help

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I’m not one to buy a replacement board without trying to fix things first but after basically rebuilding the speech board and replacing almost every component suggested I still had problems. I eventually said F it and got this.

http://pinballpcb.com/products/replacement-system-6-7-9-speech-board/

I had success resolving this by replacing the two 8 pin audio mixer chips on the speech board. I can’t remember the chip number, right off.

Yea, I saw that. Problem is that I am not sure if it is just the speech board giving me the problem or if there is something wrong with the sound board too. without knowing I would have to spend the money on the combo unit, which will set me back over $150. May do it as a last resort if needed.

Start with the basics. Check both fuses with a meter to ensure they are still good. Check voltages on the test points of the board (see picture).

When sound board diagnostics was working, was it quiet when the voices were supposed to play or did it just start playing the sounds again?

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After I rebuilt my Firepower I had an issue with the speech/sound and found one of the transistors was bad. I have another set to do out of a Gorgar shortly and another speech ROM board for a Firepower after that.

I just got the Speech and Sound combo board put in on mine and it's great. Really love these boards.
I had too many issues with the sound and speech so I just replaced the entire board. Make sure it's the speech/sound board before buying. If the onboard sound test doesn't play all the sounds, it's likely a problem on the sound or speech board(could also be on the cable that connects the 2).
If that works, but you don't hear them in game, check the driver board. Grounding the pins at 10J3(pins 2-5, and 7) on the soundboard should trigger voices.
To ground it, just touch one side of a wire to a ground, and then touch the other side to those pins on the board.

Mine was missing voices for Fire, Power, 1, and 2. It would say 3 where 2 should have been during the multi-ball kick outs.

Roughly $166 total for the one I bought a week ago.

Thank you. Question. I can get the diagnostics sound with both sound and speech boards attached. But when I unplug the speech board I cannot get any diagnostic sound out of the board at all. Is that normal? Does the speech board have to be plugged up? I thought it was an optional component.

J

You need to install jumper W1 if you want to remove the voice board and only play sounds.

It just started over with the sounds. there was no break or quiet time during the diag.

Did the voltages check out?

Do you have a logic probe?

Yes, I checked all fuses and voltages. and checked all traces and pins. Unfortunately, I do not have a logic probe. Will need to consider getting one.

Does anyone have ideas for alternate toppers to put on a Firepower? I don't like the one basic one Marco Specialties sells.
Anything space would probably look pretty cool. Trying to stay at or under $100 if possible.

I am having the same problem, but my segment E is out on players 3 and 4. I swapped out IC8 BCD to 7 segment decoder, the IS10 Segment drive for player 3 and 4, and the resistor for the segment. still not working. I also know that the player 3 and 4 slave displays are good as I swapped them with 1 and 2. same segment is out. Also checked the wires, traces, etc. I am out of ideas. Could it be anything in the MPU that could cause a segment to be out? Thanks

Nothing on the MPU can cause a segment to be out. The MPU can cause a digit to be blank, a specific number not appear but it cannot cause a segment not light properly.

Put the game on display test. Use a meter or logic probe to test pin 11 of IC8 to see if it is pulsing when a number with the c segment is displayed. If it is, keep looking. If it does not, IC8 is bad.

Still on display test - probe pin 6 of IC10. If it is, keep looking. If not, check the trace, sockets, etc to see where the signal is being lost between IC8 and IC10.

Still on display test - set your meter to 200V DC. One lead on ground, other on pin 13 of IC10. Be VERY careful not to short pins together or touch the pins with your fingers, there is -100V there. If you see voltage pulsing to near -100V here, keep looking. If not, replace IC10 or look for socket problems.

Still on display test and your meter to 200V DC. One lead on ground, the other on each side of R10. If you don't see voltage pulsing to near -100V here check the traces, solder joints and/or the resistor for breaks in the circuit.

Thank you. At least I know now whatever the problem is, it is from the master display outwards. I'll give what you suggest a try.

I have completely given up on getting a consistent display on mine, even after ordering a replacement player 4 glass I was getting wacky segments again. I just ordered a Wolfpac replacement like 10 minutes ago. I figured for I could be done with this for a hundo instead of ordering crummy glass over and over.

I was told by a guy to also check the back of the MPU board. Connectors 1J3, 1J5, 1J6, and 1J7 all deal with the displays. He said often times you'll have cold solder joints causing a bad connection. My displays freak out sometimes and don't display things properly. Even straight up dropping out all together(ball counter specifically).It's mainly when I'm doing a 4 player game or if the machine has been on for a few hours(maybe the heat?). It works for the most part, but you'll see half lit segments or weird flickering on some parts of the numbers.

Idk, just an idea. I will probably pop mine out eventually and reflow if needed. I'm pretty sure it's not the displays on mine because they're from 2018 and have barely any use.

If any of you are upgrading to all LED displays I'd be interested in your old ones. Have a few games running the originals and can use extras to keep these going..

How can I tell if the speech chips are in the correct socket in my FirePower? There are no labels besides the chip number which are labeled 5T-1961, 5T-4962, and 5T-4963? Thanks

Those are not the correct ROMs for Firepower, they are for Gorgar.

In the Firepower Instruction Booklet: Requires 5T497I (IC7), 5T4972 (IC5), and 5T4973 (IC6) speech ROMs.

Speech Board sockets are oriented like this as you look at the board installed in the game

IC4 IC5
IC6 IC7

IC4 is not used.

Hardtop is down, repopulation and modification to begin.

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Maybe one of these days I'll assemble some old school drop banks and swap 'em into my early run Firepower. The rear switch, dimples, wiring, etc. is already all there, and mine came with the shorter target bank plastics...

I guess I've avoided even thinking about it in the past because so many people said it slows the gameplay down vs. the standup targets. I dig the fast gameplay, but I also dig drops. Hmmm

Richard

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I don't know how i missed this group.
Well I have a problem (I did make a topic i figured I ask an owner ) I bullet proofed my MCU board and socketed the CPU and the PIA and some 74 chips. All worked fine. I ordered some PIAs for the driver board. But before I installed them I verified pin to pin resistance. Now I will 'Test' install them in the socket on the MCU. So each one I install, power up, and start a game 4 players. The first 4 were fine the 5th one made the score erratic. went from 1000 to 20000 then down to 400. I reseated the chip and tested. it stilled seemed funny so i put that one aside. The next one the machine turns on in attract mode all seemed fine but I could not start a game. I checked for ball and tested the switches still with a new PIA in. Than i noticed the Game Over was flashing [good] and ball in play was lit [bad]. All light flash fine in test mode.

Code wise how do the game start up. What does it look for. If anyone has code, even test code let me know.

Sorry for the long message. Any ideas?

Thanks
Dave

You socketed all 74 chips on the CPU board? If so, I'd look for a chip with a bent pin. Even with a bent pin, it can make contact with the socket, for a while. Your removing and inserting PIAs could have worked it loose.