(Topic ID: 70775)

The Firepower Club

By wiredoug

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 4,645 posts
  • 392 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Eric_Manuel
  • Topic is favorited by 182 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Pinside_forum_7644242_1 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_20240317_201138 (resized).jpg
pasted_image.png
pasted_image.png
firepower board (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_4748811_0 (resized).jpg
20240222_162422 (resized).jpg
1 (resized).JPG
20240219_100955[1] (resized).jpg
20240219_100938[1] (resized).jpg
17081924482489220556429728668307 (resized).jpg
17081924197165365041866729559709 (resized).jpg
20240217_104945[1] (resized).jpg
20240217_104937[1] (resized).jpg
20240217_103551 (resized).jpg

There are 4,645 posts in this topic. You are on page 66 of 93.
#3251 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

I would replace the diode on the coil (not the switch). Pay attention to the orientation of the wires and the stripe on the coil. The diode on the coil is there to protect the driver transistor.
Then repair the transistors on the driver board.

No luck after changing that diode and the two transistors.
Two other issues I wanted to ask about;
When the ball goes through the F lane the score and noise register but the letter doesn't register. When you lite other letters you can lane change to light the F and it will still award Fire and the multiplier when you lite all four.
The other issue I have is the power target in the middle when hit, lites the one to its left. The left target when hit will lite and register as will the one on the right but the middle will never register or light. I changed the diode on the middle target and the F lane.

IMG20200123152013 (resized).jpgIMG20200123152013 (resized).jpg
#3253 4 years ago

Is there a definitive list of desirable or cool mods/upgrades for Firepower?
I'm on the hunt for a project and want to consider everything.

--swap out drop targets for the standup targets--changes play--drops "smooth" play and increase flow
--"new"/modified ROMs burned onto a single chip--makes pin more responsive and play faster
--flipper upgrade to '95 version to increase power and speed play

I know there are some cosmetic "upgrades" or mods
--hardtop or new playfield--yes, choosing between these is more than cosmetic
--new backglass
--possibly new lighting and plastics
--Fire Power legs
--custom cabinet paint/powder coating cabinet stainless areas black

Does anyone have suggestions beyond this list?
Any pics?
Any pros or cons to items on the list?
What have YOU done?
What are YOU planning for your machine?

#3254 4 years ago

Spend a few dollars more and get the Sargent 1026ct or the 1028ct. Type in Sargent in his search box.

#3255 4 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

Does anyone have suggestions beyond this list?

You can add custom roms to add new rules & also convert to 7 digit displays.

http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/pro_soft.html

Also, if you swap to drop targets (which I would recommend) the latest CPR Firepower playfield plastics sets include the regular stand up target plastics as well as some smaller version prototype plastics for drop targets use.

#3256 4 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

Is there a definitive list of desirable or cool mods/upgrades for Firepower?
I'm on the hunt for a project and want to consider everything.
--swap out drop targets for the standup targets--changes play--drops "smooth" play and increase flow
--"new"/modified ROMs burned onto a single chip--makes pin more responsive and play faster
--flipper upgrade to '95 version to increase power and speed play
I know there are some cosmetic "upgrades" or mods
--hardtop or new playfield--yes, choosing between these is more than cosmetic
--new backglass
--possibly new lighting and plastics
--Fire Power legs
--custom cabinet paint/powder coating cabinet stainless areas black
Does anyone have suggestions beyond this list?
Any pics?
Any pros or cons to items on the list?
What have YOU done?
What are YOU planning for your machine?

Retro Refurbs offer alternative art cab decals.

#3257 4 years ago

Can anyone confirm the size of this locking washer and nut? I thought I’d get lucky finding one at Ace Hardware but no luck.

165067D5-82A9-4A83-8AC8-1240BEC7AF7E (resized).jpeg165067D5-82A9-4A83-8AC8-1240BEC7AF7E (resized).jpeg
#3258 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Can anyone confirm the size of this locking washer and nut? I thought I’d get lucky finding one at Ace Hardware but no luck.[quoted image]

I don't know the size but I REALLY need one of those labels...does anyone have a link?

#3259 4 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

I don't know the size but I REALLY need one of those labels...does anyone have a link?

I just made it, this morning. PM me I’ll send you one.

#3260 4 years ago

It probably will but this one is WAAAAAY better. It crimps the wire and insulation in one step (the one you linked takes two steps to crimp both).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JLN93S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

#3261 4 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

No luck after changing that diode and the two transistors.
Two other issues I wanted to ask about;
When the ball goes through the F lane the score and noise register but the letter doesn't register. When you lite other letters you can lane change to light the F and it will still award Fire and the multiplier when you lite all four.
The other issue I have is the power target in the middle when hit, lites the one to its left. The left target when hit will lite and register as will the one on the right but the middle will never register or light. I changed the diode on the middle target and the F lane.[quoted image]

Its really hard to tell in that picture but it seems your Power targets are not wired up correctly, specifically the center target. Have a close look at the yellow wire there. Where does the yellow wire that runs off the edge of the picture connect?

Enter switch diagonistics (instructions in the FP manual) - press each target and switch and capture which switch number is registering. You can print a copy of the switch matrix table from the manual and write on there which switch is actually registering. For your Fire target issue, sounds like there is a bad diode somewhere in the matrix and the switch test procedure above might shed some light on what is happening.

#3262 4 years ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

--swap out drop targets for the standup targets--changes play--drops "smooth" play and increase flow

Standup targets (especially with new foam) play much faster than the drop version. This is one case IMO that the original style (drops) does not play as well as the modified/cheaper standups. It does make the rules more obvious ball to ball, though, especially for relighting the kickback.

Quoted from ss-pinball:

--"new"/modified ROMs burned onto a single chip--makes pin more responsive and play faster

The 3 proms to 1 eprom mod certainly makes the mpu use less power and is more reliable - doesn't do anything to make it more responsive and play faster though.

Quoted from ss-pinball:

--flipper upgrade to '95 version to increase power and speed play

Angle is too flat on the 1995 WPC version of the mechs. The original is fine as it's one piece, it's the older WMS flipppers that are the bad responsive ones. The system 11 style/early wpc style is fine as well, the stroke is the same.

Quoted from ss-pinball:

What have YOU done?

My machine has system 7 firepower software in it custom written using information from this site:
http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/text/williams_lvl7_programming.html#compatibility

Requires a system 7 board, obviously. All of the original ruleset was implemented from scratch and the following was added: (I'm probably forgetting some of the features....)

2x/3x scoring during multiball (depends on balls in play)
Spinner when lit counts value on another player display so you can see how much you're collecting
You can requalify locks during multiball by completing the standups
You can set the kickback to be lit at the beginning of the ball

A couple other people have this software as well and I know it made it to the TPF either last year or the year before.

#3263 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Standup targets (especially with new foam) play much faster than the drop version. This is one case IMO that the original style (drops) does not play as well as the modified/cheaper standups. It does make the rules more obvious ball to ball, though, especially for relighting the kickback.

The 3 proms to 1 eprom mod certainly makes the mpu use less power and is more reliable - doesn't do anything to make it more responsive and play faster though.

Angle is too flat on the 1995 WPC version of the mechs. The original is fine as it's one piece, it's the older WMS flipppers that are the bad responsive ones. The system 11 style/early wpc style is fine as well, the stroke is the same.

My machine has system 7 firepower software in it custom written using information from this site:
http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/text/williams_lvl7_programming.html#compatibility
Requires a system 7 board, obviously. All of the original ruleset was implemented from scratch and the following was added: (I'm probably forgetting some of the features....)
2x/3x scoring during multiball (depends on balls in play)
Spinner when lit counts value on another player display so you can see how much you're collecting
You can requalify locks during multiball by completing the standups
You can set the kickback to be lit at the beginning of the ball
A couple other people have this software as well and I know it made it to the TPF either last year or the year before.

Thanks for all of that!
I have a lot to learn.

#3264 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Standup targets (especially with new foam) play much faster than the drop version. This is one case IMO that the original style (drops) does not play as well as the modified/cheaper standups.

That seems to be what most people think about the drops - it plays slower therefore not as good, I must be in the minority here, I find that with drops it's fast enough, in fact the speed & flow feels just right as you can predict & control the ball better than with stand ups, furthermore, when you hit the rubber where a target has dropped, it rebounds very fast. With the standups I found the ball rebounded fast which is great but the ball trajectory was unpredictable.

I won't be going back to standups, but of course views on this topic are subjective.

#3265 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Its really hard to tell in that picture but it seems your Power targets are not wired up correctly, specifically the center target. Have a close look at the yellow wire there. Where does the yellow wire that runs off the edge of the picture connect?
Enter switch diagonistics (instructions in the FP manual) - press each target and switch and capture which switch number is registering. You can print a copy of the switch matrix table from the manual and write on there which switch is actually registering. For your Fire target issue, sounds like there is a bad diode somewhere in the matrix and the switch test procedure above might shed some light on what is happening.

The yellow wire attaches to the lower switch in an awkward way. Not sure if there's a tab missing from that switch.The different coloured wiring, I believe, relates to this being an early proto fp set up for drop targets.
IMG20200128180505 (resized).jpgIMG20200128180505 (resized).jpg

#3266 4 years ago
Quoted from the4horse:

The yellow wire attaches to the lower switch in an awkward way. Not sure if there's a tab missing from that switch.The different coloured wiring, I believe, relates to this being an early proto fp set up for drop targets.
[quoted image]

Actually it is common for them to use a different color wire to tie several nearby switches together that are on the same row or column. You see that all the time on Drop target boards.

That does look really odd. I'd carefully inspect all those switches to ensure the diodes are in the circuit properly and the wiring is correct.

#3267 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Can anyone confirm the size of this locking washer and nut? I thought I’d get lucky finding one at Ace Hardware but no luck.[quoted image]

Still trying to locate this nut and washer. I appears any hardware store in existence doesn’t carry it. Anyone have an extra off an old door by chance?

#3268 4 years ago

Did you make a restore thread for that? That cabinet and cabinet art looks amazing.
-mof

#3269 4 years ago

I'll make a video next time I do a swap. I've done 10 or so sets of these...
I use a dremel and it takes a few seconds for each one. I used to go in a circle, and now I just make straight lines in all directions, and go quickly on high speed.
Pop them out as you go.
Gently file them back and make sure the remaining shape fits ok. Adjust as needed.
I put the bell on a long screw and buff it on the wheel.
-mof

#3270 4 years ago

Thanks mof ! What Dremel tool do you use? A cutoff wheel?

#3271 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

A cutoff wheel?

I think I've used the grinding stone...

#3272 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Did you make a restore thread for that? That cabinet and cabinet art looks amazing.
-mof

I did not - can take some more pictures and post them tho. Was a complete restore - rebuilt cabinet with the alternate artwork, new backglass, new playfield, playfield parts, powdercoating, etc. Definitely a labor of love......

#3274 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

My machine has system 7 firepower software in it custom written using information from this site:
http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/PinBuilder/text/williams_lvl7_programming.html#compatibility
Requires a system 7 board, obviously. All of the original ruleset was implemented from scratch and the following was added: (I'm probably forgetting some of the features....)
2x/3x scoring during multiball (depends on balls in play)
Spinner when lit counts value on another player display so you can see how much you're collecting
You can requalify locks during multiball by completing the standups
You can set the kickback to be lit at the beginning of the ball
A couple other people have this software as well and I know it made it to the TPF either last year or the year before.

Hi @slochar, these rules sound awesome! Are you willing to share these ROM files? I own a firepower with a system7 boardset and 7 digit displays.

#3275 4 years ago

Just asking this in case the answer has changed of recent. Are the parts available to rebuild the POWER switches? I know the targets themselves need to have rivets drilled and all that, so I was hoping to just change the switch contact blades. Has anyone done this?

#3276 4 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Just asking this in case the answer has changed of recent. Are the parts available to rebuild the POWER switches? I know the targets themselves need to have rivets drilled and all that, so I was hoping to just change the switch contact blades. Has anyone done this?

The switch stacks are connected by rivets too...I just bought 3 new switch assemblies from PBR.

#3277 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

The switch stacks are connected by rivets too...I just bought 3 new switch assemblies from PBR.

Did you? Can you send me a link to the correct ones?

#3278 4 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Did you? Can you send me a link to the correct ones?

20200205_085925 (resized).jpg20200205_085925 (resized).jpg
#3279 4 years ago

Is that the same as the Williams A-8253? It seems they have a real replacement for that, only with a yellow face.

#3280 4 years ago

Got my boards back after having them repaired. They were tested working before sent back to me.

When I power on the machine all 4 pops and the slings fire then all but one coil (left upper pop) releases. So for now that connector has been pulled. I have tried testing Q2 and I think it's ok. It seems to get similar readings as neighboring transistors.

Also, I have no sound. Sound test does nothing. There is no speaker hum.

I also replaced a connector going to the power supply. I did this before connecting boards and powering on for the 1st time.
20200205_221718 (resized).jpg20200205_221718 (resized).jpg

Also the voltage on the 3 gray wires from top to bottom are 10v, 10v, 0v.
20200205_220717 (resized).jpg20200205_220717 (resized).jpg

The voltage on these 3 gray wires from left to right are 10v, 0v, 10v.

I get 0v on all 3 test points on sound board.

Should be:
TP1 12v
TP2 -12v
TP3 ground
TP4 5v

So...any ideas?

#3281 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Got my boards back after having them repaired. They were tested working before sent back to me.
When I power on the machine all 4 pops and the slings fire then all but one coil (left upper pop) releases. So for now that connector has been pulled. I have tried testing Q2 and I think it's ok. It seems to get similar readings as neighboring transistors.
Also, I have no sound. Sound test does nothing. There is no speaker hum.
I also replaced a connector going to the power supply. I did this before connecting boards and powering on for the 1st time.
[quoted image]
Also the voltage on the 3 gray wires from top to bottom are 10v, 10v, 0v.
[quoted image]
The voltage on these 3 gray wires from left to right are 10v, 0v, 10v.
I get 0v on all 3 test points on sound board.
Should be:
TP1 12v
TP2 -12v
TP3 ground
TP4 5v
So...any ideas?

I've sent all my boards away 3 times now and I've still got issues 6 months on. My sound goes out and then comes back on randomly and other times the sound and speech is slightly different to how it should be. Like one sound is missing or garbled. Good luck with yours...all I could think of was replacing some pins and the processor chip on the soundboard. That worked for me for a short time until something else went wrong.

#3282 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Got my boards back after having them repaired. They were tested working before sent back to me.
When I power on the machine all 4 pops and the slings fire then all but one coil (left upper pop) releases. So for now that connector has been pulled. I have tried testing Q2 and I think it's ok. It seems to get similar readings as neighboring transistors.
Also, I have no sound. Sound test does nothing. There is no speaker hum.
I also replaced a connector going to the power supply. I did this before connecting boards and powering on for the 1st time.
[quoted image]
Also the voltage on the 3 gray wires from top to bottom are 10v, 10v, 0v.
[quoted image]
The voltage on these 3 gray wires from left to right are 10v, 0v, 10v.
I get 0v on all 3 test points on sound board.
Should be:
TP1 12v
TP2 -12v
TP3 ground
TP4 5v
So...any ideas?

Are you measuring AC or DC for the power to the sound board?
What wires are plugged into 10J2, they do not look correct in your picture?

#3283 4 years ago
Quoted from CanadianPinball:

Are you measuring AC or DC for the power to the sound board?
What wires are plugged into 10J2, they do not look correct in your picture?

AC voltage.

Also the wires are hooked up the same way they were before I pulled the boards. The sound worked before I pulled the boards.

#3284 4 years ago

Work backwards from those grey wires, they should be 18VAC. IIRC they come directly off the transformer

#3285 4 years ago

Would someone be able to confirm the type of screw that goes in the pop bumper caps. I thought I took a pic of it before putting every screw on the game in evaporust and tumbler but apparently I didn’t....
Just need a pic of it if someone could

4C938516-E56E-4935-9967-2AE7A19BD207 (resized).jpeg4C938516-E56E-4935-9967-2AE7A19BD207 (resized).jpeg
#3286 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Would someone be able to confirm the type of screw that goes in the pop bumper caps. I thought I took a pic of it before putting every screw on the game in evaporust and tumbler but apparently I didn’t....
Just need a pic of it if someone could[quoted image]

https://www.pinballlife.com/bumper-cap-screws.html

#3287 4 years ago
Quoted from CanadianPinball:

Work backwards from those grey wires, they should be 18VAC. IIRC they come directly off the transformer

Can I measure voltage on transformer lugs without killing myself? Lol

#3288 4 years ago

You can measure the voltages safely as long as you don't accidentally touch the metal probe tips. (Don't ask how I know !)

#3289 4 years ago

Since it' on the back, clips some leads on and measure that way

#3290 4 years ago

What is this connector for? It got smashed under the head. Wondering if it's related to sound not working.

20200210_081654 (resized).jpg20200210_081654 (resized).jpg
#3291 4 years ago

I believe that’s for your “Fire” and “Power” flashers.

#3292 4 years ago

So all coils fire on start up and top left pop stays pulled in. I have tried testing transistor Q2 and all readings are similar to surrounding transistors. Coil diode tests good. Pin 37 on interconnect has about 4.7v and it's a tight connection. Coil is around 4ohms.

What do I look at next?

#3293 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

What is this connector for? It got smashed under the head. Wondering if it's related to sound not working.[quoted image]

I’m fairly certain that is for your sound to the board that has pot for volume control.. Trace from the sound boards in the upper right of your back box and I’m pretty sure that’s where it goes.

#3294 4 years ago

Before I make new rails and clear this playfield can someone confirm the left out lane is supposed to be this tight. I found one convo in the thread showing a ball stuck.

Looks like some one made a new hole closer to the insert. But it appears the one on the left (from players view) is original. I’d like to fill one of these holes and paint it prior to clearing. Just don’t wanna screw myself over with other problems if I should be using the one closer to the insert.
6DB03842-F305-4E22-A83C-6E68574B2994 (resized).jpeg6DB03842-F305-4E22-A83C-6E68574B2994 (resized).jpeg2DCF3486-CF02-4E08-96B8-0B82A812B218 (resized).jpeg2DCF3486-CF02-4E08-96B8-0B82A812B218 (resized).jpeg43202720-0E5B-47A3-9E74-E11CB3B3F4F0 (resized).jpeg43202720-0E5B-47A3-9E74-E11CB3B3F4F0 (resized).jpeg

837E0695-1DB4-4185-B158-CE6C2EAA03BB (resized).jpeg837E0695-1DB4-4185-B158-CE6C2EAA03BB (resized).jpeg
#3295 4 years ago

The metal on the outlane to the left really funnels the ball down there I think you'll find in gameplay that it's not too tight at all. Fill the hole nearer the insert.... I wonder if someone was trying to make your game even harder by moving that?

#3296 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

The metal on the outlane to the left really funnels the ball down there I think you'll find in gameplay that it's not too tight at all. Fill the hole nearer the insert.... I wonder if someone was trying to make your game even harder by moving that?

I’m thinking someone that had it before was probably having the issue where the ball wedged and the hole by the insert might have been the fix. But yeah that would’ve made it harder.

Ok thanks I’m gonna fill the one next to the insert.

#3297 4 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Before I make new rails and clear this playfield can someone confirm the left out lane is supposed to be this tight. I found one convo in the thread showing a ball stuck.
Looks like some one made a new hole closer to the insert. But it appears the one on the left (from players view) is original. I’d like to fill one of these holes and paint it prior to clearing. Just don’t wanna screw myself over with other problems if I should be using the one closer to the insert.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Mine is located right next to the insert.

902B1FE2-BD09-4CA7-A5A7-C0B16468A3D0 (resized).jpeg902B1FE2-BD09-4CA7-A5A7-C0B16468A3D0 (resized).jpegE86A64A9-7D48-4DCE-A3D4-E5844A640383 (resized).jpegE86A64A9-7D48-4DCE-A3D4-E5844A640383 (resized).jpeg
#3298 4 years ago

Yours still appears to be further from the insert than mine tho. That metal sleeve pretty much sits up against the insert on mine. Can you take a pic with the ball gauging the gap on the outlane like my pic if you have time?
Thanks for chiming in.

#3299 4 years ago

My outlane is much closer together. No way you can get a quarter in the gap. Maybe a dime would fit.

15818706765594676659128245820033 (resized).jpg15818706765594676659128245820033 (resized).jpg
#3300 4 years ago

Now that I'm looking at your main pic closer, I think your correct location for that guide is someone in between your 2 existing holes. Easy black paint touchup but you'll have to fill both of them to stick it in the middle. Bummer!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 42.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
$ 299.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Washington Court House, OH
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
There are 4,645 posts in this topic. You are on page 66 of 93.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/66?hl=canadianpinball and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.