(Topic ID: 70775)

The Firepower Club


By wiredoug

6 years ago



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There are 3660 posts in this topic. You are on page 49 of 74.
#2401 1 year ago

I'm new to the club! And I'm almost done reading this cool thread... but 48 pages take some time!

I have a -first- little question for the Firepower community... Could someone take a picture of the locking mechanism in the backbox ? Not the part around the key lock, I'm interested in the part that blocks the backglass and prevents it from being lifted. I might have a missing piece because turning the key does not block the glass in my case. I guess it's a pretty standard feature, but the only other machines available around me are EMs!

Thanks!

#2402 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

You might could actually use that gate and bend a new wire.

Your southerness betrays you

#2403 1 year ago

Yep.

#2404 1 year ago
Quoted from matiou:

I'm new to the club! And I'm almost done reading this cool thread... but 48 pages take some time!
I have a -first- little question for the Firepower community... Could someone take a picture of the locking mechanism in the backbox ? Not the part around the key lock, I'm interested in the part that blocks the backglass and prevents it from being lifted. I might have a missing piece because turning the key does not block the glass in my case. I guess it's a pretty standard feature, but the only other machines available around me are EMs!
Thanks!

I can get you that tomorrow if someone doesn't beat me to it.

#2405 1 year ago
Quoted from matiou:

I'm new to the club! And I'm almost done reading this cool thread... but 48 pages take some time!
I have a -first- little question for the Firepower community... Could someone take a picture of the locking mechanism in the backbox ? Not the part around the key lock, I'm interested in the part that blocks the backglass and prevents it from being lifted. I might have a missing piece because turning the key does not block the glass in my case. I guess it's a pretty standard feature, but the only other machines available around me are EMs!
Thanks!

Welcome to the club! FP is one of my favs to this day. Sound, looks, gameplay takes me back to my "yout"

#2406 1 year ago

Is this it?

image (resized).jpg
#2407 1 year ago

Hey,
Not a member (yet) but I just saw this video added a month ago...
Some guy added 2 plastic ramps to his Firepower! This is kind of a whacky mod, wouldn’t ya say?

#2408 1 year ago

So he took out some targets and added ramps. At first I thought how will you light the locks then saw he wired the ramps as one of the targets. If I had never seen a firepower it looks good but something's just wrong about it. If he likes it is all that counts though.

#2409 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Hey,
Not a member (yet) but I just saw this video added a month ago...
Some guy added 2 plastic ramps to his Firepower! This is kind of a whacky mod, wouldn’t ya say?

Interesting. It changes everything about the game. Standard Firepower is all about catch / control / backhand or die. Except for the loop to the upper saucer. The ramps return forehand shots to the flippers for more flow. He actually made the game more typical of a Steve Ritchie.

#2410 1 year ago

I did something similar to a Firepower II back in 1987.
I just could not stand the orbit shot to the game. So...
in went another ramp.

#2411 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Hey,
Not a member (yet) but I just saw this video added a month ago...
Some guy added 2 plastic ramps to his Firepower! This is kind of a whacky mod, wouldn’t ya say?

Interesting. Well executed, but it looks like it makes it way too easy. So many drains come from target bank ricochets. The ramps look like they take a lot of the skill away.

#2412 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Interesting. Well executed, but it looks like it makes it way too easy. So many drains come from target bank ricochets. The ramps look like they take a lot of the skill away.

Agree with this. I think it's cool and well done but the stand ups are what makes the game such a challenge!

#2413 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Hey,
Not a member (yet) but I just saw this video added a month ago...
Some guy added 2 plastic ramps to his Firepower! This is kind of a whacky mod, wouldn’t ya say?

looks cool but at the same time clunky.

#2414 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

stand ups are what makes the game such a challenge!it

Quoted from Brijam:

Well executed

Quoted from Travish:

something's just wrong about it.

I like the idea of adding ramps to older games, but i agree that the stand-ups are part of the game and one of the features that keep you coming back because the game isn't too easy.

I think the problem with the ramps is there isn't a big enough reason to use them. You get one stand up light for a ramp. Ramps should be saved for bigger purposes, or at least something that needs to be earned more often. On High Speed, Ritchie used them to lock the ball. Bigger purpose. The only thing I don't like about those on High Speed is that the lock interrupts the flow of the game.

I think these Firepower ramps also slow down the play of the game a bit. There is safety to the ball being on the ramp and they don't return to the flipper with enough speed to keep the game going with intensity.

Kudos to him for trying something different, especially if he didn't need to create any lasting modifications to the machine so it can be switched back when he wants to.

#2415 1 year ago

Ramps or no ramps, that dude plays a mean game of Firepower.

#2416 1 year ago
Quoted from canoncitypb:

I think these Firepower ramps also slow down the play of the game a bit. There is safety to the ball being on the ramp and they don't return to the flipper with enough speed to keep the game going with intensity.

Exactly. Multiball seemed a lot less frantic.

Quoted from RCA1:

Ramps or no ramps, that dude plays a mean game of Firepower.

True that. I was enjoying his flipper work.

#2417 1 year ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Some guy added 2 plastic ramps to his Firepower!

What ramps? All I saw were the red pop bumper bodies.

#2418 1 year ago

Looks like his parents were siblings.

1 week later
#2419 1 year ago

So I broke my game somehow. The rottendog MPU doesn’t seem to want to boot. The power comes on, all the lights come on, but the scoreboard doesn’t light up, and the game won’t start.

It shut down while I was adjusting a switch but accidentally tapped one pole of a solenoid. The whole game just went dark. I didn’t feel anything, so I assumed I just grounded the low voltage. After I power cycled it, it would light up but not move any further.

I checked all of the fuses, but none of them had failed. Any ideas?

#2420 1 year ago

Basics - verify voltages on all the test points, especially the power supply, then on the Rottendog.

#2421 1 year ago

Happy to join the club! I picked up a project Firepower recently.

Question: Is there something particular to the way the top left jet bumper is wired? I've noticed that when mine is hooked up the 2.5A solenoid fuse blows (with a new coil.) In some forum searches, it seems that the Top Left causes others more issues than the rest. Just curious.

It's run by Q2/17, does that mean two transistors/pre-transitor drivers need to be replaced?

Thanks for any insights!

#2422 1 year ago
Quoted from WeLoveScott:

Question: Is there something particular to the way the top left jet bumper is wired? I've noticed that when mine is hooked up the 2.5A solenoid fuse blows (with a new coil.)
It's run by Q2/17, does that mean two transistors/pre-transitor drivers need to be replaced?

Did you hook up the coil backwards?

When you buy a new coil, the diode is sometimes flipped compared to the factory coil.

What matters is the band on the diode, not L or R lug.

#2423 1 year ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Basics - verify voltages on all the test points, especially the power supply, then on the Rottendog.

Is there a document which lists the test points and expected values?

#2424 1 year ago

http://www.firepowerpinball.com/ the schematics show actual voltages at different points on the schematic.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7 This is an excellent writeup on all Williams system 3 thru 7 systems.

Between these two references, that should be just about everything you need to troubleshoot and get the game going. Continue to post progress.

#2425 1 year ago

Anyone seen this before? New to me FP, has a few issues I knew about prior to buying (mainly blowing 2.5a solenoid fuse) but this new to me, ball will not fit down lane.
AEA4CF2E-D04E-4140-AF4A-05118D7A4793 (resized).jpeg

#2426 1 year ago

Also, what is this under the playfield?

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#2427 1 year ago

I've seen the out lane tight on that side before. Usually on CPR replacement playfields.

That is the flasher board for the fire and power flashers. It supplies a small amount of current to "warm" the flasher bulbs for longer life. If you use led's you will need to clip one leg of the resistor (yours is burnt) so the led flashers will not stay dimly lit all the time.

#2428 1 year ago
Quoted from RazorV23:

Anyone seen this before? New to me FP, has a few issues I knew about prior to buying (mainly blowing 2.5a solenoid fuse) but this new to me, ball will not fit down lane.
[quoted image]

Loosen the in lane guide, push to the right and hold, retighten.

If that doesn’t work see if you can move the ball guide to the left a smidge by loosening, pushing to the left and retightening.

-2
#2429 1 year ago

Here is my backglass using coloured leds. Looks better in person then in a pic. Almost has a 3-D effect.

IMG_0013 (resized).JPG
#2430 1 year ago
Clown Puke (resized).jpg
#2431 1 year ago
Quoted from RazorV23:

Anyone seen this before? New to me FP, has a few issues I knew about prior to buying (mainly blowing 2.5a solenoid fuse) but this new to me, ball will not fit down lane.
[quoted image]

Oversized ball?

#2432 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Oversized ball?

I thought so at first, but I checked my other balls (haha) and they are the same size. Looks like the rail has been moved 1/8” to the right, I’m gonna try to resposition it.

#2433 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

[quoted image]

Come on now Vid, it's not bad. Pictures never do it justice. I've seen 1000 times worse...

#2434 1 year ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Come on now Vid, it's not bad. Pictures never do it justice. I've seen 1000 times worse...

"Your Honor, and members of the jury, may I remind you my client is not that bad. Killing a single person is nothing compared to David Berkowitz, who was 1000 times worse."

#2435 1 year ago
Quoted from Billc479:

http://www.firepowerpinball.com/ the schematics show actual voltages at different points on the schematic.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7 This is an excellent writeup on all Williams system 3 thru 7 systems.
Between these two references, that should be just about everything you need to troubleshoot and get the game going. Continue to post progress.

Ok, I was able to read through this stuff, but I still have my issue . I think I need some assistance specifically targeted to the Rottendog MPU.

The game starts up, and lights all of the general illumination, then nothing. The scoreboard and flashers never light, which I assume has something to do with the high voltage feed.

Left untouched both LEDs on the board stay lit. If I press the test button, the bottom LED will turn off, but the top stays lit. I switched IC27 and IC36 according to some post I found, but that didn’t change anything.

I would appreciate any help this tread can throw my way. I’m stressing about this seeing as I literally rebuilt the whole game then F’ed it up at the last possible moment.

#2436 1 year ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

I think I need some assistance specifically targeted to the Rottendog MPU.

Disconnect everything but the power to the MPU.

Now read us the voltages.

Also switch your meter to A/C, and give us the ripple on the 5v line.

#2437 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Disconnect everything but the power to the MPU.
Now read us the voltages.
Also switch your meter to A/C, and give us the ripple on the 5v line.

OK, the complexity here is that I cannot find a schematic for this board, so I'm going based off my eye. This Rottendog board seems to have six test points right in the center (red circle). These give me the following values:

TP2 NMI 4.8 Vdc
TP4 BLNK 0 V
TP5 IRQ 4.7 Vdc
TP6 BUS 2.0 Vdc
TP7 RST 0.5 Vdc
TP9 VCC 4.8 Vdc

These were measured after unplugging all of the molex plugs in the yellow circles.

Lastly, I'm going to need some tips on the 5v ripple measurement. I am not certain where to get that for you.

IMG_0332 (resized).jpg
#2438 1 year ago

Where is your battery (cr2430). That might make a difference. The board won't boot correctly without the battery to "remember" which game it's running. Have you done the board setup from the beginning?
IMG_4666 (resized).JPG

IMG_4667 (resized).JPG

IMG_4668 (resized).JPG

#2439 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

Where is your battery (cr2430). That might make a difference. The board won't boot correctly without the battery to "remember" which game it's running. Have you done the board setup from the beginning?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

It never had a battery, I assumed it didn’t need it with that NVRAM chip installed?

I’ll read these instructions, thank you! I can’t find anything for this board.

#2440 1 year ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

TP2 NMI 4.8 Vdc
TP4 BLNK 0 V
TP5 IRQ 4.7 Vdc
TP6 BUS 2.0 Vdc
TP7 RST 0.5 Vdc
TP9 VCC 4.8 Vdc

These were measured after unplugging all of the molex plugs in the yellow circles.

Lastly, I'm going to need some tips on the 5v ripple measurement. I am not certain where to get that for you.

Good job on the measurements.

Your 5V is low consistently, so now you need to check it on the power supply board itself.

If you have 4.8 on the MPU, and 5.2 on the power supply, then you know your female connectors need re-pinning.

If you have 4.8 on the MPU and 4.8 on the power supply, then you know the power board needs fixin'

(if you want to check AC Ripple, turn your meter to AC and test the 5v again)

#2441 1 year ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

Ok, I was able to read through this stuff, but I still have my issue . I think I need some assistance specifically targeted to the Rottendog MPU.
The game starts up, and lights all of the general illumination, then nothing. The scoreboard and flashers never light, which I assume has something to do with the high voltage feed.
Left untouched both LEDs on the board stay lit. If I press the test button, the bottom LED will turn off, but the top stays lit. I switched IC27 and IC36 according to some post I found, but that didn’t change anything.
I would appreciate any help this tread can throw my way. I’m stressing about this seeing as I literally rebuilt the whole game then F’ed it up at the last possible moment.

VCC measuring 4.8V is a touch on the low side. Typically you want that closer to 5V. Have you reflowed the header pins on the power supply board? Better yet, replace the header pins with new headers.

Your Blanking signal is low (TP4 is at zero volts), this will prevent your displays from lighting up. This is due to your board not running properly at the moment. Look closely at the displays from various angles and look for any hint of orange. You can usually see an orange dot of light somewhere in the display when they have proper power, even if they are blanked. If you see any orange, the display power supply is working properly.

Both LEDs staying lit on bootup indicates a CMOS RAM failure. You can try a factory reset of the CMOS (NVRAM in your case) by leaving the coin door open, setting switch 7 on DS1 to on and momentarily pressing the "command" switch (next to the diag switch)

Top LED staying lit after pressing the diag switch indicates a RAM failure. I wouldn't worry about that until you get this blanking issue resolved.

#2442 1 year ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

It never had a battery, I assumed it didn’t need it with that NVRAM chip installed?
I’ll read these instructions, thank you! I can’t find anything for this board.

You can try running Leon's test ROM that is built into the RD ROM. Follow the Self Test procedure in this doc and let us know what happens: http://arcadeshop.com.whsites.net/rottendog/mpu327/MPU327_Install.pdf

#2443 1 year ago

vid1900, travish and schwaggs thank you so much for the help!! Here is what I’ve discovered according to your posts.

Running steps a-j on the self-test that travish linked produce the exact result expected. I don’t see any issue there.

vid1900 where is the 5V on the power supply board? I can’t find anything less than 10V When measuring all of the caps and fuses. I attached a picture of my layout, perhaps someone could circle it?

schwaggs I can see a slight orange dot in every one of the displays when I look closely.

On the 5V issue, I want everyone to remember this was working perfectly up until the moment I was adjusting with one of the “fire” rollover switches and grounded my tool against a pop bumper solenoid. There was no spark or shock, but the game immediately cut the displays out, and stopped making noises.

Prior to that, I had an issue with the big blue cap, but seemed to have resolved it by ripping it out and installing the inkochnito bridge board.

Again, I really appreciate the time you are all putting into this!

AB70EB40-B93E-4349-93C7-6D752CAF4051 (resized).jpeg
#2444 1 year ago
sys6 (resized).jpg
#2445 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

[quoted image]

Sorry, I should have realized that from tracing the wires. All four spots read exactly 5Vdc with no flutter. I also metered them at the end of the cable where they hit the board, they maintain, so that rules out the cable as well.

I can look at the back of the board and see if the jumpers need reflowed. I’ll post back in 10-15 minutes.

#2446 1 year ago

Sorry for the delay…

I pulled the board out and measured all three 5Vdc feeds heading into the board. They measure 5Vdc on the underside as well, so I think that rules out the need for re-pinning.

The underside of the board looks good. I don’t see any cold joints or obvious issues besides this one red jumper. I don’t know if that was factory installed by Rottendog or not.

Any tips on where to go next?

677A9DA3-5A64-46F4-A3F7-FCC2D5495305 (resized).jpeg
#2447 1 year ago

So you have good 5v and good display power, that’s good. We need to focus on why blanking is not deactivating. Do you have a logic probe?

Are you sure the PIA you installed in IC 18 is good? Do you have another you can ista there?

#2448 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

Where is your battery (cr2430). That might make a difference. The board won't boot correctly without the battery to "remember" which game it's running. Have you done the board setup from the beginning?
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Any chance you can scan that schematic and post a PDF? It’s tough to read the letters on those pictures...

I can’t find it online either.

#2449 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

So you have good 5v and good display power, that’s good. We need to focus on why blanking is not deactivating. Do you have a logic probe?
Are you sure the PIA you installed in IC 18 is good? Do you have another you can ista there?

I do have a logic probe, but you're going to tell me how to use it . I've used it for arcade repair, and basically just validating that ICs are causing the thing to blink.

As for IC18, I haven't touched it. I found another post (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-think-i-blow-my-rootebdog-mpu327#post-4040208) where they recommended swapping IC27 and IC36, so I did that with no change . I haven't followed the posts advice on replacing U17 because frankly I can't find the damn thing on the board.

At this point I wouldn't necessarily rule out anything being "bad" but as I stated earlier, this issue most likely came from the grounding of a rollover switch to a pop bumper solenoid. I would suspect pretty minimal damage seeing as everything was working 100% prior to that (maybe that is a false assumption?).

Thank you again!

#2450 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Any chance you can scan that schematic and post a PDF? It’s tough to read the letters on those pictures...
I can’t find it online either.

MPU327_schematic.pdf
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