(Topic ID: 70775)

The Firepower Club


By wiredoug

6 years ago



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  • 306 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 27 minutes ago by Robotworkshop
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There are 3688 posts in this topic. You are on page 38 of 74.
#1851 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballfan68:

I'm hoping this is only the first of a few to have these issues and hope they look into making them better and hope pps will look into this with the supplier.

Contact them. beatmaster had some problems with his and they took care of him. Go back through this thread and have a look...

#1852 2 years ago

So, I've already given bruce at outside edge a heads up on your issue, and he will address it with you tomorrow as he's at some event today. I know everyone needs to post on pinside, but every issue should be going straight to the supplier (in this case me) to get the best and most comprehensive support. I just info on this yesterday and was out until this morning so Bruce from Outside Edge will look into this particular glass to see if something slipped thru.

thanks,
rick

#1853 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballfan68:

Hello all, just excitedly opened my pps package with a new Kiss and FP backglass, found a few issues, when unlit they look amazing but when under light is when you see some unsatisfactory blemishes. I think a little more quality control should have been put in as part of the process. The colours are not exact and I can kind of live with that, but if we are replacing original bg with repros to enhance our pins esthetics, I would have thought with today's technology, the artwork would turn out much better and there wouldn't be streaks during the silk screening process, my original doesn't. Seems like the ink is just a bit more faint or diluted as compared to the original. We have waited many years for these to come out and I'm not as happy as I thought I would be. I'm hoping this is only the first of a few to have these issues and hope they look into making them better and hope pps will look into this with the supplier.

Hello,
Bruce here. This may get lengthy, so bear with me and please read this all to try to understand.
First, let it be known (as stated by others) that if you received a product that has flaws we will do what ever it takes to get you taken care of.
Now, lets go to printing school for a momment:
The late 70s into the early 80s 4 color process glasses are hands down the HARDEST glasses to recreate... period.
In order to understand why these are tough.. ine must has to have a thourough understanding of differences between spot color titles (example Blackout) and 4 color process titles like (Kiss, eightball delexe etc).
To recreate film positives from already printed “process” art where the original positives no longer survive is virtually impossible if the goal is an “exact” duplicate is desired, yet we have developed a way to accomplish that nobody we are aware of has accomplished. I am also a collector and know exactly what I am looking at when presented with a glass as to wether its a repro or not.. and frankly what ink was used due to my decades of commercial printing background.

To make references to the originals and say that these don’t exactly match would be true, I suppose in process instances. However, I am confident in stating these glasses are REALLY REALLY close to the known originals we had a specimines to copy. I am saying it that way because it’s a known fact that the origianl glasses on many many titles were also NOT all the same. We somestimes even gather 2-3 glasses to look at color variations in originals not even considering fade.. which obviously is another factor we always consider.

Kiss is a “process” glass. We will take care of you if you received a glass with issues.That title was a **tch to print.. and not to throw any other suppliers under the bus.... I know of another conpany who has tried recreating process pinball projects in the past with WIDLY off colors... and I know why. I will not site examples, as I respect that company and know how hard it is to accomplish.

In the end, most collectors just “assume” these are just not a big deal to recreate... give it a whirl.. I dare you. Speciic to process titles. We have 200 employees and millions and millions dollars worth of state of the art equipment on the floor with collectivly hundreds of years of experience behind us. Kiss took 6+ weeks to iron out from virtually nothing but old glass examples.

Now, I can admit me may have an employee that packed (2 total so far)
Glasses that should not have shipped! I apologize for that.

I personally regret the fact that folks choose to use this forum to “race to the top of the hill” and shout out each and every issue with even attempting to first contact Rick (and I ) to see if we had a mistake occur.

No threat intended here.. but just be informed that there is no line of suppliers dying to produce pain in the ass to recreate projects like this that actually have the knowledge and equipment to donthe work the way it needs done. I mean that... there are a few of us, thats it.

Now, I cannot tell exactly from the photos,
But I can see obvious ink film opacitiy issues on your glass. However, I ccanot tell (as they are quite close up) if you are blasting this from behind with unreasonablly bright and certainly NOT realistic light levels found from LEDs in areas that are actually intended to be lit. In other words,
When installed IN the machine... does this issue show at all??

Firepower specifilc comment:
This title had easily, the WORST quality original print job I have ever seen that left the pinball factories with several ORIGINAL variations of color and art.
It was a real crap glass as far as quality and consistancy (originals). That being said, we did see some that were printed decent. Our problem (well documented on this site)
was that we had to chose which one to repro in the way of color. We did choose and our colors MATCH.

At any rate, sorry you had an issue.
I have your email that you sent Rick.. and I will reach out this week to get more information to get you satisfied.

Folks... for real.. just contact us with an issue and give PInside a rest until we get to a point you feel like we can’t satisfy you.
Then blast away, of course.

This is not as easy as some of you assume.

Thanks!

Outside Edge
Bruce

#1854 2 years ago

.. and sorry for typos, as I type on my teeny tiny phone... I am traveling

#1855 2 years ago

For what it's worth my Blackout reproduction from a couple years ago is gorgeous, just perfect as far as I'm concerned compared to the very degraded original. Of course the process it seems is easier as mentioned above.

#1856 2 years ago

Thanks Bruce/Rick for the very quick response. Honestly I meant no harm, I have been in the hobby for a while and finally able to afford investing into improving the look of my pins as well as jumping in on the availability of certain parts ie backglasses. It's quite difficult up in Canada to aquire parts sometimes and with the exchange we are paying usually 40% more for items. I am a collector and not a flipper pardon the pun, and take pride in my small collection. Maybe my expectations are unreasonable but I only have the originals as to compare them to because I have them in hand to compare. I am pretty sure we can figure something out as well as when I get a chance I will put them in the machine to get a more accurate light effect. The colours are rich and spectacular when not backlit! I will not comment any further until I investigate further and apologize for any inconveniences. Please keep up the great work you guys are doing in keeping this hobby alive!

#1857 2 years ago

And I can’t agree more with the statement about late 70’s/early 80’s Williams “quality”. Machines of that era are riddled with so many inconsistencies, wrong/badly installed parts, poorly made boards, straight from the factory.

Just off the top of my head, the regular issues I can think of.....

Backward leaf switches, inconsistent colors in artwork, Badly printed play fields, mixed up colors on the black/white connectors, 40pin connectors ground down too far, low quality clearcoat, badly sprayed cab stencils, back boxes falling apart, incorrect schematics, Incorrect rom files, low quality parts (scanbe), poorly designed parts (sys 7 G.I. Connector). The list goes on and on.

Great game design and programming. Generally great artwork. Poorly made. Hard to make reproductions when there is so much variety and no way to know what’s correct.

#1858 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballfan68:

The colours are rich and spectacular when not backlit!

I find that when using LEDs in the backbox, you have to be pretty carefully of the type of bulb, it's colour and it's intensity. I've put coloured LEDs in my FP and it took a while to get it just right. Nothing like removing and replacing the backglass 50 times or so. I've used the frosted LEDs and they seem to work the best for my taste as they seem to be a bit softer and spread the light a bit more. If coloured bulbs don't look good try soft white.

Pictures never do this justice...

backglass (resized).jpg

bulbs (resized).jpg

#1859 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

I've used the frosted LEDs and they seem to work the best for my taste as they seem to be a bit softer and spread the light a bit more.

That answers my question, looks great with the leds in terms of even lighting & spread & the coloured leds enhance the backglass nicely. I found using the #47 globes I already had in my game with the repro backglass the filament in the globes shone through, creating sort of hot spots just with the filaments as can be seen as dots in the pic if you look on the jet wings & Firepower letters.

So easily adjusted with leds to get the lighting perfect.

As I stated in an earlier post, mine looks excellent overall.

IMG_7046 (resized).JPG

#1860 2 years ago

Ok, well, I thought that there was someone who was interested in the play field that I removed, but they backed out of the deal/haven't responded. So, I'm putting it out there: anyone who is interested in restoring the thing, I'm more than happy to sell it. I'd prefer that it was local so that shipping isn't an issue. Alternatively, I'll be attending Pintastic in MA this June, so if you can wait till then, I can just bring it with me. I can post more details about it here if you ask, and I'll be forthcoming to everyone here. Please, if you have general questions, write back here so that others who are interested can see the same answers. A few general tidbits:

- I was playing on this until I finished my restored play field. It is straight, not warped, and generally in good repair with no structural defects.

- The paint is not planked or chipping/flaking. It should be a good candidate for clear coating.

- It will include all of the lane guides, except the one that leads into the left ball lock (I only had one to restore).

- Except for the harness/components, I will throw in any additional equipment that you may want (harness points, red posts, shooter cover, etc) that I have extra of, included in the price.

- The GI circuit is functional, all I did was desolder the harness from it.

- So far as I can tell, there are no overtly broken inserts.

Please see the attached pictures as well.

IMG_3918 (resized).JPGIMG_3919 (resized).JPGIMG_3920 (resized).JPGIMG_3921 (resized).JPGIMG_3922 (resized).JPG

#1861 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

Action pinball says you can use this gottlieb as a replacement? I would use your meter and check continuity on the old switches and wiring first.
http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=B-18807
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-18807

Thank you!

#1862 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Ok, well, I thought that there was someone who was interested in the play field that I removed, but they backed out of the deal/haven't responded. So, I'm putting it out there: anyone who is interested in restoring the thing, I'm more than happy to sell it. I'd prefer that it was local so that shipping isn't an issue. Alternatively, I'll be attending Pintastic in MA this June, so if you can wait till then, I can just bring it with me. I can post more details about it here if you ask, and I'll be forthcoming to everyone here. Please, if you have general questions, write back here so that others who are interested can see the same answers. A few general tidbits:
- I was playing on this until I finished my restored play field. It is straight, not warped, and generally in good repair with no structural defects.
- The paint is not planked or chipping/flaking. It should be a good candidate for clear coating.
- It will include all of the lane guides, except the one that leads into the left ball lock (I only had one to restore).
- Except for the harness/components, I will throw in any additional equipment that you may want (harness points, red posts, shooter cover, etc) that I have extra of, included in the price.
- The GI circuit is functional, all I did was desolder the harness from it.
- So far as I can tell, there are no overtly broken inserts.
Please see the attached pictures as well.

If no one buys this by the end of pintastic for restoration purposes then ill toss you some $ and use it as a wall hanger.

#1864 2 years ago

Hi All,

I have a Firepower with segment C out on players 1, 2 and the credit display. Players 3 & 4 are fine. I have been looking at the schematics and trying to figure out the common failure point that would capture players 1, 2 and the credit display, but can't pinpoint it. There was a post asking about a similar situation, but never posted the resolution: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/missing-score-display-segments-on-firepower

Thoughts?

IMG_20180120_1232472 (resized).jpg

#1865 2 years ago

OK, think I have the issue. The resistor in the attached photo in spot 6 is bad, and the spot relates to segment c. The adjacent ones read as 10k ohm. What I don't know is what wattage the resistors are. They are bigger than normal 1/4 watt, and have been previously replaced by a previous owner. What was throwing me off was that the schematics that were previously online were not the same as my master display.

So, what wattage of 10k ohm resistor should I use? How does a person figure that out?

Quoted from jedi42:

Hi All,
I have a Firepower with segment C out on players 1, 2 and the credit display. Players 3 & 4 are fine. I have been looking at the schematics and trying to figure out the common failure point that would capture players 1, 2 and the credit display, but can't pinpoint it. There was a post asking about a similar situation, but never posted the resolution: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/missing-score-display-segments-on-firepower
Thoughts?

IMG_20180121_0910530 (resized).jpg

#1866 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

OK, think I have the issue. The resistor in the attached photo in spot 6 is bad, and the spot relates to segment c. The adjacent ones read as 10k ohm. What I don't know is what wattage the resistors are. They are bigger than normal 1/4 watt, and have been previously replaced by a previous owner. What was throwing me off was that the schematics that were previously online were not the same as my master display.
So, what wattage of 10k ohm resistor should I use? How does a person figure that out?

I had this issue and it was recommended to me to replace with 1/2W resistors. I hope this is your issue, mine wasn't fixed, it was a bad 7180 chip. So I installed Xpin dispays.

However, I gave my displays to a local friend cheap who found there was a part of the 7180 not being used and somehow jumpered the chip to fix the display. Far above my skill level.

#1867 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

OK, think I have the issue. The resistor in the attached photo in spot 6 is bad, and the spot relates to segment c. The adjacent ones read as 10k ohm. What I don't know is what wattage the resistors are. They are bigger than normal 1/4 watt, and have been previously replaced by a previous owner. What was throwing me off was that the schematics that were previously online were not the same as my master display.
So, what wattage of 10k ohm resistor should I use? How does a person figure that out?

That resistor doesn't look bad but certainly could be bad. Segment failures is commonly caused by those resistors, as you found out. Usually when that is the case, they are burned to a crisp. They should be 10K 1/2 watt. Lift one leg and measure its resistance to be sure or just replace it.

You can use a logic probe to rule out the BCD to 7 segment chip. Probe pin 11 of IC5 or IC6 (whichever is populated on your board) and see if that signal is pulsing.

If it ends up being the 7180, be careful where you source them. Almost guaranteed anything from China will be a fake.

#1868 2 years ago

I noticed on the CPR website the plastic sets are already sold out. I hope a lot of suppliers bought up a bunch and will have a few available. Luckily I got a set from the first run.

#1869 2 years ago

Amazing...I’m glad I got mine, too. I’m close to buying a backglass...hope there are enough of those, too.

#1870 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Amazing...I’m glad I got mine, too. I’m close to buying a backglass...hope there are enough of those, too.

Shhh..

#1871 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

I’m close to buying a backglass...hope there are enough of those, too.

There are still two options for backglasses. You can get them from Planetary or Mayfair. Mine is from Mayfair, not sure what he has left in stock...

#1872 2 years ago

Yes, I would have thought it would be burnt,
but I checked the resistance and it is bad (compared to the rest that read at 10k). I will order a few replacement resistors and try replacing it.

Quoted from Schwaggs:

That resistor doesn't look bad but certainly could be bad. Segment failures is commonly caused by those resistors, as you found out. Usually when that is the case, they are burned to a crisp. They should be 10K 1/2 watt. Lift one leg and measure its resistance to be sure or just replace it.
You can use a logic probe to rule out the BCD to 7 segment chip. Probe pin 11 of IC5 or IC6 (whichever is populated on your board) and see if that signal is pulsing.
If it ends up being the 7180, be careful where you source them. Almost guaranteed anything from China will be a fake.

#1873 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

There are still two options for backglasses. You can get them from Planetary or Mayfair. Mine is from Mayfair, not sure what he has left in stock...

i'd be curious to see them side by side.

#1874 2 years ago

Question that is probably easy to answer: im intermittently getting two balls ejected into the shooter lane after locking the first ball. It's not the kicker somehow smacking both balls into the lane, but hitting one then the other sequentially into there. Is it maybe a switch contact or something? I never had that issue prior to transferring the innards to the new play field.

#1875 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Question that is probably easy to answer: im intermittently getting two balls ejected into the shooter lane after locking the first ball. It's not the kicker somehow smacking both balls into the lane, but hitting one then the other sequentially into there. Is it maybe a switch contact or something? I never had that issue prior to transferring the innards to the new play field.

Had this problem with my Flight 2000. If I recall, the middle switch was sticking, so machine would think there were still 2 balls in trough and kick last ball into trough. Had to fiddle with that switch a few times, ended up replacing the wire as it was really bent up before I had it.

#1876 2 years ago
Quoted from swillie:

Had this problem with my Flight 2000. If I recall, the middle switch was sticking, so machine would think there were still 2 balls in trough and kick last ball into trough. Had to fiddle with that switch a few times, ended up replacing the wire as it was really bent up before I had it.

Thank you...I had a feeling it was something silly like that.

#1877 2 years ago

Hey guys,

So, because I had to replace my score/credit cards for the machine, I decided that i wanted more accurate ones than what was available out there. So, I set out to make at least this custom one for myself. The fonts and spacing are much more accurate than what was out there, and I think that, when I have time, I will attempt to recreate all of the different variations that the machine shipped with. I have all the originals, so i shouldn't be an issue. All I need is to find out what font was used to make those numbers (497-1, 497-2, etc)...

Firepower Custom Card (resized).png

#1878 2 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i'd be curious to see them side by side.

Mine looks really good Bob but I'm not super-picky either. I'd love to see them side by side as well. Considering what my original looked like, this is a billion times better. I know it isn't perfect and there were some variations compared to the original but I can live with it.

#1879 2 years ago

Round two of my card project were successful: you can see it side by side with the original. The text is very, very close in detail.

IMG_3975 (resized).JPG

#1880 2 years ago

Ordering my planetary backless soon...can someone tell me what trim/hardware I need to order with it?

EDIT **wow, ok, it says in the description on the site...

#1881 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

I noticed on the CPR website the plastic sets are already sold out. I hope a lot of suppliers bought up a bunch and will have a few available. Luckily I got a set from the first run.

Hopefully my purchase of a FP will happen soon where I won't need the set I bought. If so, it will be for sale once I get the game.

#1882 2 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

Hopefully my purchase of a FP will happen soon where I won't need the set I bought. If so, it will be for sale once I get the game.

Well, my attempt to purchase a nice FP were dashed due to seller not wanting to ship.

Now looking for a CPR playfield. Name your price!

#1883 2 years ago

Just as a follow-up, replacing the resistor worked,
and so far no problems after 3-4 hours of use.

Quoted from jedi42:

Yes, I would have thought it would be burnt,
but I checked the resistance and it is bad (compared to the rest that read at 10k). I will order a few replacement resistors and try replacing it.

#1884 2 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

Well, my attempt to purchase a nice FP were dashed due to seller not wanting to ship.
Now looking for a CPR playfield. Name your price!

You never know where it will come from. I got mine from a guy an hour away on a whim.

#1885 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

I got mine from a guy an hour away on a whim.

I can one-up you on that. I searched all over North America in forums for months and I almost had one in New York City (I'm just outside of Toronto, Canada) but it fell through. I found out from my buddy that our local tech had one sitting in his warehouse that he got in a package deal with an FP that he bought. He hadn't even taken the playfield out of the packaging, he just put it in his warehouse with the machine. He lives 15 minutes from me and his warehouse is about the same distance.

Sometimes things just happen to come together when you least expect them to!

#1886 2 years ago

My girl bought mine. She likes Gorgar better.

#1887 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

She likes Gorgar better.

Better than FP or better than you? I believe she got it off of Ebay. She paid a premium for that thing for you!

I still don't get the fascination with Gorgar. Just doesn't do it for me in any possible way!

#1888 2 years ago

Better than firepower. Yes she did. Over twice what I got the whole machine for.

A nice Gorgar set up right is a great machine. Usually the first and last played when things get turned on.

#1889 2 years ago

Anyone interested in/needing a full wire harness? I was going to sell it to someone, but I haven't heard back from them.

#1890 2 years ago

I finished my reproduction of Instruction card 497-4:

Instructions Card Rev. 2 (resized).png

If anyone wants full-scale copies to print their own, or wants me to modify them to whatever settings you like, let me know.

#1891 2 years ago

What are you asking for the wiring harness?

#1892 2 years ago

Does anyone have an old Firepower playfield from a swap they've done? Mirco has the original art for the playfield but would need an actual playfield for color and mechanical reference.

#1893 2 years ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

And even if all of that was done, unless Chris Hutchins put his hands on it, it's not a 7.5K game.

HEP will be doing a FP shortly, starting with a brand new cabinet. I can't wait to see what he does!

And no, it's not for me

#1894 2 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

Does anyone have an old Firepower playfield from a swap they've done? Mirco has the original art for the playfield but would need an actual playfield for color and mechanical reference.

i hope they find one, i'd be in.

#1895 2 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

Does anyone have an old Firepower playfield from a swap they've done? Mirco has the original art for the playfield but would need an actual playfield for color and mechanical reference.

Pm sent.

#1896 2 years ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

Mirco has the original art for the playfield but would need an actual playfield for color and mechanical reference.

I hope they can make the playfield OEM instead of the aftermarket run that CPR did.

#1897 2 years ago

Going to call on everyone's expertise with this issue that i am having.

So, my brother informed me that my bottom right pop bumper just stopped working. Checked it out, and indeed, it won't trigger. I testes the switch - it does close according to my volt meter, the same as any of the others. I ran a solenoid test, and the thing won't fire. It was working just fine last night when I played my last game. I tested the upper right one with the volt meter, fired it, etc, and it was fine...then on the next game, it stopped working too! I don't know what is going on, if im chasing a wiring gremlin, or, as I fear, if there is something going on with the driver board.

Again, the switch closes, solenoid won't fire, won't fire during solenoid test, and I can't see anything physically disconnected under there.

Suggestions?

#1898 2 years ago

Take a close look at the power supply to these coils. The power side of the coil will typically have 2 wires - one brings power to the coil the other wire leads to the next coil. If there is a bad solder joint on one of these up stream, several coils can stop working (all the downstream coils).

Ground the tab on the driver transistor to see if that fires the pop. That will help you narrow things down. Bottom right is Q8 and top right is Q6. If this fires the coil, your power and ground wires and connectors are good and you can focus on the switch side.

The pops and slings are special switches, in that they are not in the switch matrix. The switches fire the driver transistor circuit directly. All these special switches enter the driver board on J13, the top connector on the left side of the driver board.

The solenoids are connected to the driver board on J12, right below J13.

Check these connectors to make sure they look good. Maybe reflow the solder on these header pins.

#1899 2 years ago

Thanks Schwaggs,

I have a working theory. I did check my J12 and solenoid fuse board that I had installed previously. Sure enough, the corresponding fuses had slightly melted and were bad. I replaced them temporarily with 2.5 instead of 1.25A (since I just need more 1.25s). The solenoids now work fine.

However, WHY they blew is another question. They are slow blow, so it could have happened over time. One theory I have is that, during a very intense game I had last night, the pops were overused. I have them tuned so finely that they fire at a very slight provocation. As a result, the ball can bounce around between the four of them in a very rapid fire pattern. Last night, there was one point where they kept firing so quickly that it seems like it lasted for 10 seconds. Perhaps this is where I blew the fuse. Anyone else think this could be it?

#1900 2 years ago

Hello guys!

I just recently started working on a Firepower II but one gate is missing (pictured below) any idea of where can I find one? I believe this type of gate is also used on another game (space mission?) Marco doesn't have it

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

IMG_2648 (resized).JPG

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