(Topic ID: 70775)

The Firepower Club


By wiredoug

6 years ago



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  • 3,688 posts
  • 306 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 31 minutes ago by Robotworkshop
  • Topic is favorited by 140 Pinsiders

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There are 3688 posts in this topic. You are on page 24 of 74.
#1151 3 years ago
Quoted from ApplePie:

Have a look through Peter's website. He's done lots of label work...
http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

Yup, that's the site I came across a while back and couldn't remember! Nice!

1 week later
#1152 3 years ago

How many 50v, 22 mfd caps are there to replace? I can pick them up tomorrow.

#1153 3 years ago

I just read this about backglass printing. Does anyone have a Firepower high resolution picture to share? Thanks!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-knight-printed-backglass-project-results

#1154 3 years ago

I'm in!IMG_5542 (resized).JPGIMG_5541 (resized).JPG

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Very solid player. Could use a new backglass in the future but I'm gonna play the hell out of this thing!

#1155 3 years ago

Welcome aboard!

#1156 3 years ago

Glad to see! Would love to see more detailed/interior shots!

#1157 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Glad to see! Would love to see more detailed/interior shots!

I will post those when I clean it up and put some LEDs and Titan silicone everywhere. It has mylar over the majority of the lower playfield and across the F I R E inserts up top. Might have to do something about that in the future too as it is bubbling in a couple spots. Doesn't affect gameplay too much though.

#1158 3 years ago

I got started a little. You have to be very careful. It's like the clear is a little to dry. What year did CPR do their firepower run of playfields?

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#1159 3 years ago

Some of the rubbers than hadn't turned to dust were wrong and the the ring chart that came with the new ones is not very good. This doesn't look right but the chart says it is. Can someone chime in ?

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#1160 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

How many 50v, 22 mfd caps are there to replace? I can pick them up tomorrow.

6 - 4 pops and 2 slings

#1161 3 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

Some of the rubbers than hadn't turned to dust were wrong and the the ring chart that came with the new ones is not very good. This doesn't look right but the chart says it is. Can someone chime in ?

I always ignore all manuals when it comes to rubber sizes and just test them out on my own and put what fits best. I'd say that's too big.

#1162 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I'd say that's too big.

Thats what I was thinking. The book shows a different path for the ring but it seems crazy and doesn't look right either. I usually don't have a huge selection of rings laying around.

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#1163 3 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

This doesn't look right but the chart says it is. Can someone chime in ?

If you are going to do the "triangle" shape for the rubber ring you
need to "relax" the ring by stretching it out a bit before you install
it over the target post. ( backside of the target support wall ).
---- caution ---- the target will and might bend backwards.
Note: the pinchart is for ABC rubber rings they were a tad smaller
----- in diameter* than the rubber rings of today.
-----
What you have setup is fine.
All operators rubbered that part of Fire Power that way.
--- *Diameter of the rings cross section ---
--- not the size.

#1164 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I will post those when I clean it up and put some LEDs and Titan silicone everywhere. It has mylar over the majority of the lower playfield and across the F I R E inserts up top. Might have to do something about that in the future too as it is bubbling in a couple spots. Doesn't affect gameplay too much though.

Awesome Erik!!! It's one that will never leave my collection!! Awesome game!!

Brian

#1165 3 years ago

My first Firepower

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#1166 3 years ago
Quoted from pinaholic:

My first Firepower

Congratulations, that should clean up nice...now that post between the flippers might have to go if you are a purest...

#1167 3 years ago

How's that post help cheating?

Glad to see two new people in one day!

#1168 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

How's that post help cheating?

My Flight 2000 has one, once you learn to refrain from flipping if the ball is headed down the middle the post can often bounce it up and over either flipper, nudging just right can help create a save too. It adds a fun element. Firepower certainly can be a sdtm drain monster at times so I can see why someone would put one there, but I think the game is just tough enough the way it was designed and keeps you coming back to the challenge.

#1169 3 years ago

The game sometimes being a PITA is half the fun!

#1170 3 years ago

Hello everyone...I'm about to join the club (finally). I think I've finally convinced my in-laws to relinquish their no kidding one owner HUO Firepower bought new in 1980 but left neglected and un-played for many years. It needs a good cleaning, work around the inserts and the coils need to be replaced but it has the potential to be fantastic. There is little to no fade on the cabinet (...like none...but I forgot to take pictures). A previous maintainer put a random stand-up target in the middle right bank but I plan to replace all of the targets anyway. I've posted pictures for your feedback and suggestions for the restoration.

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#1171 3 years ago

Looks like it's in really great shape, nicely done! I would read through Vid's system 3-7 bulletproofing thread to start. I would suggest doing all of the board updates in his thread, which isn't all that difficult and is well documented. At an absolute minimum you need to fireproof the rectifiers with fuses and I would say the special solenoids as well. Add an Nvram to eliminate the batteries and some capacitors and transistor upgrades and you are done for the next 30 years. Plus it's a fantastic machine to cut your teeth on if you don't have a ton of experience. The amount and quality of documentation for Firepower is incredible.

Playfield looks really great for the age. Have a read of Vids playfield restoration thread for the how to guide on paint and insert repairs. How far you take it is completely up to you...

I would replace the flipper assemblies with 1990's style and rebuild the pops at the same time. Again, fantastic guides from Vid for both.

Good luck!

#1172 3 years ago
Quoted from ApplePie:

Looks like it's in really great shape, nicely done! I would read through Vid's system 3-7 bulletproofing thread to start. I would suggest doing all of the board updates in his thread, which isn't all that difficult and is well documented. At an absolute minimum you need to fireproof the rectifiers with fuses and I would say the special solenoids as well. Add an Nvram to eliminate the batteries and some capacitors and transistor upgrades and you are done for the next 30 years. Plus it's a fantastic machine to cut your teeth on if you don't have a ton of experience. The amount and quality of documentation for Firepower is incredible.
Playfield looks really great for the age. Have a read of Vids playfield restoration thread for the how to guide on paint and insert repairs. How far you take it is completely up to you...
I would replace the flipper assemblies with 1990's style and rebuild the pops at the same time. Again, fantastic guides from Vid for both.
Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I've been reading vid's tutorials and they don't seem too hard to implement. Hopefully I'll be able to start soon.

#1173 3 years ago
Quoted from Walamab:

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement.

Definitely a clean machine. Those boards look like new! Also looking at the condition of that backglass. That's amazing! Get all of those incandescent bulbs out of the back box and put in LEDs just so you don't bake the backglass. I know that it took many years of those bulbs being on to cause the paint to flake but why risk it? You would have to pay a lot of money to get a backglass in that condition!

And I agree with applepie about the mods and stuff! Lots of little things you can do with this machine!

#1174 3 years ago

A quick question on updating flippers to "90's" style...From vid's tutorials I only see system 11 to "modern". Am I missing an important thread? My STTNG has optical switches and a different flipper controller board for the flippers. Is adding this type of system what is recommended? It seems a bit like overkill if this is the case.

A push in the right direction on this topic will be appreciated.

#1175 3 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

... Get all of those incandescent bulbs out of the back box and put in LEDs just so you don't bake the backglass. I know that it took many years of those bulbs being on to cause the paint to flake but why risk it? You would have to pay a lot of money to get a backglass in that condition!

LEDs are one of the first things I'll tackle. I definitely see the value of the backglass and want to keep it that way .

#1176 3 years ago
Quoted from Walamab:

A quick question on updating flippers to "90's" style...From vid's tutorials I only see system 11 to "modern". Am I missing an important thread? My STTNG has optical switches and a different flipper controller board for the flippers. Is adding this type of system what is recommended? It seems a bit like overkill if this is the case.

Williams Fire Power does not have the modern capacity to do
solid state flippers. You can upgrade to a manual system 11 style
and that is it.
But the flipper coils would still be the +28volt ones.
Fire Power 2 is when Williams went to +50 volt flipper coils, along
with a small separate power supply for the flippers and a separate
transformer.

#1177 3 years ago

You can upgrade to WPC era flipper mechanics easily (to vector's point, you cannot easily upgrade the electronics). The mounting plate and holes through the playfield are completely compatible. There are instructions SOMEWHERE in Vid's really long flipper thread on the parts to order. Basically, you can order 2 complete WPC era flipper assemblies from Pinball Life and specify in the notes you want high power EOS switches and 28V flipper coils (of the right model). These assemblies will solder right in and are compatible with your existing flipper bats, etc. You will have to either move from the old lane change switch from the old flipper assembly or purchase a new one and solder it onto the new right-hand flipper assembly.

Personally, I don't see that much difference between a rebuilt FP era flipper and the WPC retrofitted set (I have done both). The big difference is the speed of the flipper returning to rest, I didn't see ANY power difference.

For such an original machine in such excellent shape, I would be tempted to rebuild the existing (if the flippers need rebuilding) and keep it totally stock.

#1178 3 years ago

Yeah, everyone talks about how brutal and fast Firepower was (and still is) relative to its day. I wanted to experience and appreciate it the same way players of the time would have experienced it.... especially to contrast against other newer (or older) machines. For that reason, I when I restored mine I decided to use the original flipper design. Tuned well I have to say it's as snappy as my newer machines through the Sys11 era.

Be warned that if you decide to stay old-school but rebuild the flippers: The original coil stops were integrated to the base so if they are worn enough to warrant replacement (and they probably are), you can't just replace the stops. You have to get the newer style base with the replaceable stops. They mount exactly the same way and are almost indiscernible.

It's a worthwhile upgrade. The newer stops will restore the tighter shot patterns and make the game as hard as it's supposed to be.

#1179 3 years ago

FYI - Pinball Life still sells the FP original style bases! The bases with the removable coil stops are better if you plan on keeping the game long enough to wear out the stops...

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=710

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=709

#1180 3 years ago

Thanks for the input everyone. This helps a lot. I'm inclined to keep it as close to original as possible from a mechanics standpoint. Turns out there is an unused Williams flipper rebuild kit in the coin box. I'll double check the coil stops to make sure they aren't worn.

Thanks again!

#1181 3 years ago

By the way, warm white or cool white LEDs for GI/Backglass? Opinions?

#1182 3 years ago
Quoted from Walamab:

By the way, warm white or cool white LEDs for GI/Backglass? Opinions?

I just ordered a mess of warm white. I'll post when finished.

#1183 3 years ago

i put cool white in mine, felt it kept the colors on the bg crisper, but leds are all in a persons taste, as we know.

#1184 3 years ago

Where are you guys getting these LEDs?

#1185 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Where are you guys getting these LEDs?

Comet
Cointaker
Nifty
Pinball life
Pinball bulbs

Can't go wrong really.

#1186 3 years ago

comet is a smooth transaction and quick shipping, coin taker is also a solid company, they both have a few different items, i use them both.

#1187 3 years ago
Quoted from Walamab:

By the way, warm white or cool white LEDs for GI/Backglass? Opinions?

Have a look at this post. It's hard to take good pictures of the LEDs, it looks much better in person. I experimented with various colours to see what looked best. You could go soft white all around and I think it would look great.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/13#post-3032433

Quoted from Schwaggs:

You can upgrade to WPC era flipper mechanics easily

I went this route and absolutely love the way the game plays now. I'm not all about keeping it original. I love the fact that I can rip the left orbit/spinner shot and lock the ball when I have to. When I first got the game that shot was close to impossible no matter how well I hit it. Perhaps I just needed a simple rebuild but I figured I might as well go all in.

Here's the link to Vid's guide if you want to replace the works:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606

#1188 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I just ordered a mess of warm white. I'll post when finished.

Can't wait to see it.

Quoted from dzorbas:

Have a look at this post. It's hard to take good pictures of the LEDs, it looks much better in person. I experimented with various colours to see what looked best. You could go soft white all around and I think it would look great.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/13#post-3032433

That looks quite good. I may get ambitious and try that too .

Thanks to everyone for feedback and advice.

#1189 3 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

When I first got the game that shot was close to impossible no matter how well I hit it. Perhaps I just needed a simple rebuild but I figured I might as well go all in.

It might have been your mechs. I have originals, and no issue making the shot if done properly.To each his own!

#1190 3 years ago

Just noticed something very interesting as I was shopping my game.

So when I was playing before the shop I noticed that sometimes when I hit the standups in the middle of the playfield, the score would rack up 4-5 thousand more than it was supposed to.

I figured out that when the standups are hit straight on, they register 1,000 points a piece like normal. However if the ball hits the side of the target hard so that the target resonates and waves for a bit, the target keeps registering until the game scores at least 5,000 points.

I've watched the actual switch contacts during this behavior to confirm that the contacts are not repeatedly touching.

Anyone know how to fix this or am I ust crazy and the game is acting properly?

#1192 3 years ago

Mine did the exact same thing... Even to the point where, like you, I thought the subsequent fading oscillations weren't flexing the metal enough to continually make points contact.

All I can say is they somehow were.

I tried everything to get those switches to register just once, but it was a fool's errand. They were just too worn - the bracket behind had been eaten down too much by the target rivet as well - so there was either too much slop or too much Rebound or too much misalignment or... Yeah.

I hated getting higher scoring (and the distracting, machine gunning sounds along with it) than deserved. I replaced the switches with new ones and the problem went away for good.

#1193 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Mine did the exact same thing... Even to the point where, like you, I thought the subsequent fading oscillations weren't flexing the metal enough to continually make points contact.
All I can say is they somehow were.
I tried everything to get those switches to register just once, but it was a fool's errand. They were just too worn - the bracket behind had been eaten down too much by the target rivet as well - so there was either too much slop or too much Rebound or too much misalignment or... Yeah.
I hated getting higher scoring (and the distracting, machine gunning sounds along with it) than deserved. I replaced the switches with new ones and the problem went away for good.

Thanks! I'll try some things first before replacing, but I may go the same route.

#1194 3 years ago

You could try backing them with foam insulation, as someone once suggested I did. My issue was different, but I would bet that this would dampen the reverberations nicely.

#1195 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

You could try backing them with foam insulation, as someone once suggested I did. My issue was different, but I would bet that this would dampen the reverberations nicely.

Got a link? Didn't know if could buy these separately. Thought they just came stuck to new target assemblies.

#1196 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Got a link? Didn't know if could buy these separately.

Home Depot. Foam weather stripping.

Quoted from La_Porta:

It might have been your mechs. I have originals, and no issue making the shot if done properly.To each his own!

I think it depends on the angle that you set your game at. I believe mine is pretty steep which make it play super fast and hard. I could make the shot with the original flippers, very smoothly around the bend but the ball would just run out of steam getting to the lock. No problem making it now.

#1197 3 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

I think it depends on the angle that you set your game at. I believe mine is pretty steep which make it play super fast and hard. I could make the shot with the original flippers, very smoothly around the bend but the ball would just run out of steam getting to the lock. No problem making it now.

Mines crazy steep. The power from my original rebuilt flippers is plenty but you have to hit the spinner shot at a perfect angle to get it into the lock saucer. Very challenging.

#1198 3 years ago

Here are the premade target foam pieces from PBL so you can see what you are looking for: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=410

You certainly can use some closed cell foam tape from HD or Lowes.

#1199 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Mines crazy steep. The power from my original rebuilt flippers is plenty but you have to hit the spinner shot at a perfect angle to get it into the lock saucer. Very challenging.

One of the things that makes FP so fun! That is a satisfying shot for sure!

#1200 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Here are the premade target foam pieces from PBL so you can see what you are looking for: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=410
You certainly can use some closed cell foam tape from HD or Lowes.

Thanks! Getting with PBR for the targets so I might see if they have these pre cut pieces too.

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