Ehh... you do understand what the word 'random' means right?

When they are predicting what they think they can sell.. and balance that with what kind of exclusive premium they can charge.. that is an estimate - not 'random'

Second - you ignore the simple concept that if they sold product under the pretense it's a fixed run of units and charged for that.. if they were to turn around AFTER the fact and run more.. that's essentially fraud and they run the risk of lawsuits.

What they could do is come up with yet another edition... but that too causes problems in they are often constrained with existing contracts, ramp up of parts costs, etc. Nevermind the risk of eroding their own ability to charge a premium for the next title when they piss off customers by diluting their exclusivity.

Stern has to make predictions and estimates... building a machine isn't simple a matter of 'hey, lets build one!' and the parts, time, licensing, and capacity all fall from the sky. Managing that is an art that if done poorly could easily sink the company.

+1

Saying it's random is silly ... and actually if you follow the games and the LE's and their selling history, it actually makes sense. Sometimes the number is adjusted up or down based on the recent prior LE sales.

Another way of looking at it:

I don't know if the OP wants to continue a business relationship with Stern. I'm sure he feels the business relationship is already lost when you can't trust somebody at their word and he feels slighted because he is not as valued as some of his competitors.

Kind of like telling somebody they should overlook their wives infidelity if they want any hope of saving the relationship. If they sue for divorce, then the relationship is really over.

The reason this is not right is there would not have been the pre-orders. Everyone would have waited and played the game. The LE model gets people making pre-orders which is apparently becoming more and more important to Stern (plus the puffed up price an "LE") commands.

I mostly agree with what you are saying though; I had such a bad experience in this saga I am sitting this game out entirely . . . so I'm one sell Stern lost.

Shakespeare would hate pinball.

Deja vu

There's quite a bit of irony here. Nicholson Pinball seems to be put off by Stern's policies. Well, I was a bit put off by Nicholson's Pinball apparent "policies" not too long ago. I talked to Chris three, maybe four times over a year's time regarding NIB games.

Well, apparently after seeming friendly enough in the past, Chris apparently had it with my inquiries. I don't happen to think that I called him an excessive amount of times or asked him an excessive amount of questions. As a dealer, he should expect such things. But he told me in no uncertain terms that he didn't want to talk anymore and that I should take my business elsewhere. On one of the occasions, he contacted ME about a trade for my RFM, now that I think about it. It seems as though he at least in part uses his ability to acquire NIB games in the form of a distributorship as a means to simply acquire top-notch B/W games.

Granted, I am still waiting to "pull the trigger" as they say on a NIB game (let's face it-- when you're a one-at-a-time guy like me, it's no small potatoes as a decision), but I've had my fair share of games and I am no tire kicker. When I start to look, it is with the intention to buy. It just so happens that I never bought one from him. I thought that that was pretty crappy treatment from him, but I simply kept it to myself. But now that this has come to light, maybe it's appropriate to point out that no one likes crappy treatment, not even Chris.

As a fellow pinhead and fellow Michiganian, I don't wish Chris any ill will over the Stern fiasco. I just hope that in the same way that if he doesn't appreciate the way Stern treats the small-time dealer, it is also true that the small-time buyer wants to be treated with respect too.

I am curious if you have always purchased 10 games or if you "upped" your order for this title?

About a dozen that are "out", so to speak. Only four that post heavily. We occasionally have good debates that we all enjoy and the rest of Pinside falls asleep on us.

Seriously? Classy move Linda Tripp.

really?
ok you got 6 metallica le, whats the profit on one machine? x 4 = does this cover your attorney?

just sayin'.

Screw LEs

Interesting hypothesis ..

Reverse the scenario - distributor commits to purchasing 10 machines sight unseen, and then backs out of it. How would Stern have reacted if it wasn't a "sell-out" type of machine?

I'm thinking that Stern wouldn't have just said, "Hey, no problem guys...." .. they would've held their distributor to their commitment.

Stern, I think, needs to think about that for a bit. Would they have accepted the reverse scenario happily?

You're welcome.

The limited number is 500, that's what they choose to do. Based on their normal sales it's a good number. They aren't making 5000 of any pin. The point of the limited edition us to drive up demand, it worked perfectly.

Or get this: Right as the LE run is being made a giant flaming meteor strikes the Stern factory. You think all is lost right? What then Stern? Turns out the meteor was magically radioactive and actually made all of the pinball machines sentient, and they're out for blood. Would the distributors run for the ports, knowing a sentient pinball machine would never cross water, or would they band together with Gary Stern, wielding an axe, to take down the evil LE army?

You gotta consider all the scenarios.

Not if the ceo does not have the product to sell in hand. the only ceo who word matters is Garys until they are in the warehouses of the distributors.

That's more or less what JJP did. There isn't much bickering over not getting an LE, but it's also not really a big deal, right?

Exactly, and that's who I'm talking about.

Maybe the sales dept just kept taking orders and the count in the sales program was off and they simply over sold on accident. Another option is that they over sell like airline tickets because they know there will be cancellations but they did not get the number of canceled orders they are used to.

If I haven't already come out of the closet here, I guess I will now. I'm an a$$hole lawyer too. Part time Professor at our Faculty of Law too.

Didn't know you were one too Tigerlaw. Maybe that's why I usually like the cut of your jib.

The one advantage is the trade in of pins if the distributor can do this, I do! My next door business (Freedom Ford) makes way more profit selling used cars trade ins than selling the new Fords he claims as everybody can find the invoice on line but that still doesnt include the hold back or rebate program.

Another pinhead "outed" as a legal type!

Who the f**k is defending Gary Stern in this fiasco?! His empty promises are indefensible. Especially if you have them recorded. OK, OK, I'm a lawyer, too, but I'd file suit just to f**k with him--arrogant asshole with the Liberace glasses needs to be knocked down a peg.

_{Post edited by gweempose : profanity edited}

Hmmm. I like Gary and view him as a maverick in the industry. People keep telling him making pinball machines is no way to make a living and he keeps doing it. He is a visionary. Without him and Stern I don't think we would be experiencing this renaissance of pinball.

Visionary maverick who saved the industry. I can see why you hate him. LMAO

edit: all notwithstanding this BS of cutting people's order...BOOM

It is tough to be one of the small dealers. The way I see it is that it just allows me to spend far more time with the customers I do have. I know very well I will have to respond to dozens of inquiries and questions before I sell a machine. That's just part of the process. I'm happy to talk pinball anytime, weekends are not a problem.

Mike
http://www.lanesandgamesarcade.com/

I think his father was more of a visionary, let's face it, he invented the AtoMagno flipper 350 years ago, read on: http://www.nypinball.com/brochures_details.php?br=1273

Having all the garage distributors was a bad choice... My guess is stern is struggling with deciding how to clean them up

My thoughts as well. I dont think they are happy with all the price wars between them as well as favoritism.

TheJesus is back! hehe. Can you find one where he is cleaning the ball with Liam? but just him.

The barrier to entry is THAT low?

4-machine minimum order for distrib. pricing? Sounds like a flipper-paradise

As someone else noted, Stern may have signed up too many small distros and is now looking to pare them back a bit.... This could also account for how they overextended themselves on LE pre-orders: so many coming in at the same time, from so many little buyers, that they couldn't adjust the totals "real-time."

Stern doesn't need these kind of "distributors" who are no more than collectors with a garage, buying a few LEs to keep one at wholesale price and trade or flip a few more, basically getting them their example for free. Where's the "value added"? What service is being provided? And then they call the lawyers in when they don't get as many as they want on a hot LE. Why not sell the premium? Because it's not good enough trade bait for them. Wah wah wah. Then post about it on Pinside. Brilliant.

A distributor should provide a value-added service by stocking games, having them on legs for perspective buyers to play, providing tech service, and being a liaison between the buyer and Stern. Stern gets none of the above from the "elite" buyers. They provide nothing to the equation. Dump them. Put on a small group of dists that do their job professionally, not as a hobby to get games on the cheap.

I will say this though.
In all other previous "Limited Edition" runs Stern has made, Spiderman, Elvis, Tron, XMen, AC/DC, Avengers ...Stern has printed/published how many LE's they were making of said title.

To this date...I have yet to see anything in print from Stern stating how many Metallica LE's they are making. Even the flyer posted yesterday did not say how many the MOP run will consist of. Even the flyers they posted yesterday on their facebook page don't state the production run of the LE.

Why was my order cut? I would like one of the 1400 MOPLE's they are making? ...just sayin...

I have to agree with DrJoe.Many of the small Stern Distributors are actually no more than Collectors with some extra cash looking to make a quick score quickly on the hot machines .No more than flippers without the customer service support.They could be nice people, but nevertheless this MOPLE has exposed the true problem with the current pinball industry.That is quick profit without even handling the new machine.It hurts the Dealers that are willing to put up big $$$$ to stock extra inventory and sell at prices that provide a profit for them to operate a business and pay employees with families.It is apparent that all pinball buyers want to buy their new machine at distributor cost and then gloat about it.But eventually this will take a toll on the industry again as we saw with the older pinball manufacturers going out of business except for Stern.Remember, nobody is making anyone buy these new pins.Especially the numbered LE's that really started with the Tron LE recently.The industry distribution system will have a fallout after this recent LE debacle,but justifiably so.It needs to happen.It is called Market Correction.And smaller distributors as we see them now are already being re-evaluated per the criteria discussed.

While nothing might stop them legally or contractually from cranking out 3x the LE's, I think they'd be "breaking the faith" of the whole limited concept and killing their golden goose.

Stern has created an LE-Hype-Tsunami with Metallica. Frankly, all the press they've gotten about it selling out so fast is GOOD PRESS for them. Distributors screaming/crying/fighting over not getting as many models as they wanted? Sounds like marketing GOLD for Stern.

I cant see them cranking out another 500-1000 LE's or they risk losing that same LE-presale-monster for their next upcoming releases...

Tough crowd for Chris and other small Stern distributors.

I bought a NIB IM from him about the time people decided that IM was cool and the supply was drying up. Picked it up in person. He is a nice guy. Was lucky to find one at that time.

It is easy to forget that Chris and many other small distributors helped keep Stern alive during lean times. And the diversity of the distributors usually helps to keep the price low (competition).

Just watch Stern cut the number of distributors to a handful and the end user price will rise. It is equivalent to legal price fixing. Is that what you really want?

Automated Services is one of the larger Stern distributors. There has been enough written about them. Is that the quality of distributor that you are all looking for?

How about showing a little support for the small guys?

Stern could easily crank out 500, 600, 700 LEs and have basically no impact on the LE market. The smarter thing for them from a buisness decision would be to slowly step up the number of LEs over time to find the sweet spot for hype demand and dummies that will speculate on every game and still sell them out.

I really think the real thing to do for everyone (including Sterns profit margin) is to just sell the LEs direct to the final owner. Heck, do a lottery system if you want to make it fair for everyone. I still think you do a timed release and the LE edition size ends up being however many are ordered in a set time.

I still do not really understand what sort of service a distributor provides to a customer that purchases a LE??? All METLE were sold out before they even provide a video. Distributors have these drop shipped from Stern direct to customer. If/when there is an issue with a game, then the distibutor just contacts Stern to get the parts.

never knew you could buy a pin on Amazon.... that's just WRONG

Stern may as well just sell direct if they don't need value-added service to go along with their games. It's not about anyone being "nice guys" or not....this is purely a business discussion. Manufacturers have moved away from middlemen when there is no service being added. The dists/reps used to be your only way to communicate your product info to potential customers. These days, everyone finds everything out on the internet of course. So, if a distributor is not adding value, they are not worth keeping around if I'm Stern.

Holding onto a NIB title to flip in a few years isn't really a service in my opinion.

How about showing a little support for the small guys?

OK, here you go:

worlds_smallest_violin_poster_by_dr_j3.jpg

I think this will just about sum it up...

Distributors and Customers on Metallica Announcement Day:

fish.gif

What's wrong with it exactly? Sure there are a lot of people that want to kick the tires and look at a game, that's totally cool and makes sense. What if I want to buy an Xmen that's left over? Why do i need to go to someone to purchase something I already know everything aboot? Why must I shop around to diff'rent vendors looking for a price if Amazon has what I need and can ship it to me?

OMG tHey ArN'T smAll TheY aRe LEET!!11!

Yes it all ends up being a business decision.

Don't forget the fact that if Stern dumps distributors they will have to hire an in house sales force. There isn't anyone there now sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

They would need at least two full time professionals at around $60-70K apiece and then another two assistants at 30-40K each. Who do you think will pay for that? The customer.

If Stern dumps their distributors you will never, ever be able to buy a machine for less than the MAP (minimum advertised price) again. Machines trade for several hundred dollars less than that here. You guys should be careful what you wish for. Competition between distributors is the only thing keeping prices down.

Jim Belt from Stern said 500 MOP LE's....Good enough for me.

The savings in not having to sell to distributors for an invoice price would likely cover much of the new employee costs. How much do distributors mark up a game from invoice? $300-$1000 normally?

Per Pinballmike217 :"They would need at least two full time professionals at around $60-70K apiece and then another two assistants at 30-40K each. Who do you think will pay for that? The customer. "
Where do you come up with that ?
A manufacturer selling direct will hire a small staff at minimum wage to handle order processing.