$50 a year is going to put him out of business?

That is per machine

Typical progressive tactics. Don't worry kids, legalized marijuana is right around the corner to fill that empty void in your soul where your hardcore gambling addiction used to be!

Bottom line, parents should know where their children are and what they are doing, and be involved enough to decide if putting quarters in a machine is harmful to them.

Per machine per year. PLus it sounds like other fees too.

Another example of get something or get nothing. Something is always better than nothing.

For the most part, I agree with the video. However, my only issue is when he attempts to defend the higher price prizes. If kids are going to gamble for iPads and prizes that are worth more than $30...perhaps there should be some regulation there.

Fill that arcade with pinball machines and redemption games that only offer prizes less than $30, and he won't be subject to those regulations. ...at least that's my understanding from watching the video.

Per machine that gives out prizes greater than $30. So, what, like, $200? Maybe $300 if he has six machines with iPads or nice watches as prizes? Claw games that give out stuffed animals are exempt. Pins are exempt. Arcade games are exempt.

The video said nothing about increased taxes. Sure, he can be pissed about it (I might be too), but it's not like that $200 is going to break the bank.

And, yeah, he should get them inspected to make sure they actually pay out. I've been to arcades where the claw wasn't tight enough to actually pick up the prizes. It's just stealing people's money.

I just watched the video again, and, man...

drama_queen-968.gif

Dumb. So maybe a couple of games qualify for gifts over $30.

ONCE AGAIN.... "the man" trying to stick his grubby paws into other's pockets... Score one for Robin Hood

what the hell is going on

I love that place -- ESPECIALLY after a few brews!!!

I think that first part of the clip was the skee-ball I played this summer!! COST for 10 balls...... guess?????...... bet you didn't guess: ONE QUARTER!!! now if that goes away I will be pissed!!!

I give whatever kids are running around the tickets won (as no one in my family needs another spider ring) and that is some old school RAW FUN!

True, it might not end up being THAT much money when you take into account the actual number of machines that give out prizes that are worth more than $30. But it's the very principle of the matter that the owner has a problem with, which I agree with. Is there really a need to tack on those fees? No.

Once government gets their grubby foot in the door, even just a little bit, anything else they want to do is markedly easier to accomplish when they already have that foothold.

Government keeps nickel-and-diming business in general--it isn't limited to just coin-ops. I know a couple of people who started their own businesses in the last few years, and their largest overhead costs are fees and taxes (after salaries). One of them wanted to hire an additional employee, but it would have cost too much in taxes and insurance fees. If those were lower, it would've been affordable to provide someone with a job.

Specific to coin-ops, I imagine that any minute increase in fees/taxes/etc will hurt badly, considering the decline of coin-op entertainment in general.

right because operators and owners of those ripoff prize machines can always be trusted implicitly.

we aren't talking about $50 fee per pinball machine. pinballs and arcade games are exempt.

When the prizes are worth more than $30, how can it not be considered gambling? Gambling has always been heavily regulated (for good or bad).

I'm not really sure I understand the complaint. Times change, and regulations catch up. What do those claw machines cost that spit out ipads, ipods, etc?

Anyone else reporting on this besides Fox News? I'm sure there's a little more to the story than in the video. For instance, what the pay-payout ratio is. Someone is obviously looking at that, and sees a market that needs regulation. No one is talking about non-redemption games.

What a tired argument. Government cannot, and does not, create jobs. Lower taxes does not equal more jobs.

I for one fully support these new regulations. Put in a bunch of video games and pinball machines and he won't have to pay or be regulated. Ban all those ripoff redemption games that are conditioning little kids to grow up to be degenerate gamblers. Not to mention you can never win those iPods and high value prizes. It's a racket. If adults want to gamble or smoke or drink that's fine as long as they're informed of the odds and risks of doing so. We protect kids from smoking and drinking, why not gambling.

I wasn't quite clear on if the fee would apply to *all* games, or just redemption games. The owner seemed to indicate it would be all games. But, he was trying to make an impassioned argument, so I dunno.

What a tired argument. Government cannot, and does not, create jobs. Lower taxes does not equal more jobs.

For fortune 500 companies, I agree, taxes don't have much of an impact because large companies tend to have enough revenue and product diversity to weather things like tax/fee increases. Thus, a small reduction wouldn't automatically equate to a job opening.

However, small businesses with less than 10 people with a single product/service? Every dollar counts.

Their business is also seasonal, so yes, every dollar counts!!

When a kid puts in a dollar, to try and win a prize for multiple hundreds of dollars, maybe that is something we should look at. Stackers and the like are operator adjustable, kids don't understand that these aren't games of skill.

They are marketed to kids, and they are misleading at best. Us adults get it, but not their target market.

Plus these dumb redemption and prize machines damage pinball. People get ripped off a couple times and probably figure ALL coin pop games are a scam.

At least as a consumer, we have the right to not play these games. It's our choice. If we choose not to play them, the ops won't make money on them and will end up pulling them out of locations in favor of machines that do make money. In the end, all the ops care about is making money. But it's ultimately our choice what machines we put our money into.

While a certain amount of regulation might be a necessary evil to counteract the fallacy of those perceived "skill games" that actually aren't, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for the government to charge any kind of fees for it. The last thing the gov't needs is more free money.

I agree that government doesn't necessarily create or destroy jobs directly, but they sure can affect a business' ability to do so, regardless of size. Let's say that guy has 20 machines that fall under this new regulation, crane, stacker, and string cutters. With the new taxes and fees, I think it's safe to assume that he's now looking at roughly $1500-$2500 in new expenses that just appeared out of nowhere. If he has enough employees that the state or the federal government require that he provide health care to all of his employees, chances are he can now no longer afford to keep one of them because of these new costs. I'm sure that even with a "healthy as a horse" 25 year old male, the health insurance would easily be more that $1500 for the year. So, he has to let an employee go because he can no longer afford the insurance to cover him and that guy is out of a job now because Maryland decided to put a simple $50 fee on these machines. Either that, or he makes all his employees part-time and avoids all the mandatory health insurance, and all his employees end up making less money overall and are now forced to buy their own health insurance, further depleting their monetary resources.

Maybe the best answer for all of this is the requirement of a large sticker on the front that says:

"This is not a game of skill. Whether or not you win a prize is determined by a random number generator that you have no influence over. The operator of this machine has predetermined how often a major prize will be awarded. Play at your own risk."

Gimme a break, these prize machines are generally targeted at children, not adults.

That may be, but kids these days give up after one or two unsuccessful tries. Call it A.D.D. if you want. It's the older teenagers, twenty-somethings, and adults who think they're "smarter than the game" or think they've got the skill to beat it that keep pouring money into it.

I've seen it firsthand.

Typical MD politics. Constantly looking for new fees and taxes they can collect. Probably aimed towards the new casinos which can afford it and the arcades were just caught in the crossfire.

When I was a kid, I figured out real quick that these machines didn't pay out often. So, I put my quarters into other things instead. Back then, I assume regulation was pretty much nil.

No amount of warnings, labels, fees, or government regulation are going to stop people from dropping money into a machine if they think there is a chance they can get something out of it. This happens all the time with state-sponsored lotteries.

THIS HAS nothing to do with pinball machines. Period.

So in your opinion it's ok rip off kids, as long as they're dumb?

As one saying goes, "stupidity is not a legal handicap; park elsewhere".

Nobody is forcing anyone to drop some quarters into these machines, just like nobody is forcing anyone to play the lottery.

Everyone is responsible responsible for making their own decisions, foolish as they might be by dropping money in claw games, the lottery, etc. The government is not someone's nanny, as much as some people seem to want it to be.

Nonsense.

Maryland is a joke cant wait to get out of here

That certainly is the opinion of all percentage based redemption game operators.

Yep. getting just like the state of NJ

A little confusing seeing that a very small percentage of his games might actually dispense a prize worth more than $30.00, versus the redemption games that dispense a worthless ticket that has to be traded in to claim a prize which then puts a value on your winnings. Seems there would be an easy way around most of the additional taxation.

Nonsense. Kids can't play the lottery and calling them dumb when it's really just a case of innocence means your arguments don't hold water.

The first time they try the game, sure. Subsequent times...it's up to the player to figure it out. I learned real quick that it was a waste of money the first couple times I played one of those games. I'm sure other people have too.

What are you going to do, have a government representative standing there next to the machine telling people it's a waste of money to play?

Just because he doesn't make "casino money" doesn't mean it's not gambling.

That's basically what it is, but geared for kids. If he ran a "regular" arcade with no redemption crap, the regulations wouldn't be an issue at all. But then he wouldn't be making any money, would he?

Are there any pins there?

Chris

http://mlgca.com/wp-content/uploads/EGD-reg-published-in-Register-June-13-2014.pdf

Section 6.02 B (1) (b)

"...does not include a skills-based amusement device..."

viperrwk

Ongoing discussion over at KLOV: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=322368

I think you guys are missing the point. It's not about pinball, kids, prizes, or skee ball. It is not even about the owner's BS whining that $50 a game is going to make him close the doors, because it won't. It will, however take $50 a game away from the guy that earned it. At some point, however, that last dollar that government takes is the dollar that does close the doors.

This is only about government's inexorable appetite for more of your money.

Skills-based amusement devices are still covered by the law - they are just a separate category. You have electronic gaming devices, redemption, and skills based amusement devices. Skills based games still have to be registered with the commission, etc.

The general jist of this proposed law is that the state lottery commission wants to add state-level regulation of arcade games and regulate them like they do slots. Registration... application fees... logging of where things are.. and for things that are considered 'gaming' devices because they pay out prizes too large.. $50/machine, location licenses, only state approved games, only approved people involved, etc.

Nevermind this is on TOP OF the existing county licensing stuff and taxes.

The strangle is on all the excess regulation and overhead on ALL the games.. and then the extra fees on the gambling games.

The video does a poor job articulating the problem... but there is plenty of commentary online from operators.

Great idea. Glad to see it.

My point was read the proposed legislation to see what was covered - skill-based amusement devices are not - obviously that doesn't mean they are not otherwise regulated. Can I envision a future where all amusement games will have the government putting its hand in the cash box at every level? Sure - why do you think they finally lifted the pinball ban in Oakland, CA? Those machines will be further taxed in the not too distant future.

Nonetheless, the video paints with broad strokes and is meant to engender outrage over a new government regulation rather than accurately convey the potential economic impact to this or any other arcade operator.

viperrwk

They ARE covered by the new proposed legislation. They do not have the $50/machine fee and have different requirements but the new law DOES include new regulation and requirements for those games.

Currently the state does not regulate these these games - but is handled at the county/municipality level. The proposed law expands the scope of the lottery commission to include skills games, redemption, and 'electronic gaming devices'. The last category being the biggest change because it basically makes high value redemption games be handled the same as slots as it comes to handling, approved games only, site licensing, game licensing, etc.

The story is bigger than this one video - and there are lots of other sources if you care to actually be informed on the topic.

There's nothing wrong with this.

The fees and inspections are only aimed at machines with prizes above $30.

With the amount of money earned by games that dangle expensive toys and electronics in front of kids, this should be required. These machines earn WAAAAY more than typical pins, vids, or other minor redemption style games. They should be regulated by a gaming commission.

And what do you see as the benefit of such legislation? What does it stop from happening?

If you are an operator who lives by having 1-2 games per location and put games at dozens of locations. The costs start to add up. Oh and then what about where you can't put games anymore because the new regulator thinks your location's owner isn't up to the standards to have 'gaming devices' allowed.

And how does the common citizen benefit from the operator having to log and report where they've moved every piece to?

It all adds more costs to an industry that already is barebones.

Many areas of the state already aren't viable to operate games in because of the taxing and licensing required. This starts adding those kinds of barriers state wide.

Guido makes the point that if you kill the profitable part of the business... you can't have the other parts of the business that are floated by the real money makers.

You'd think GA, which has mostly conservative elected officials, would have some of the most business-friendly coin-op laws in the country. Instead we have these onerous fees and regulations: Master License, Location License, Game Permits. And the COAM licensing process is now administered by the GA Lottery, which seems like a conflict of interest.

Just pointing out that this isn't necessarily a blue state / red state thing. I'd love to have the same coin-op regulations in GA as folks in CA and CO do. I'd route my games in a heartbeat.

Absent everything else, these two points are probably key.

Any cash business is a big target for legislators to tax because they think it is just a piggy bank available for government use.

What does increasing fees on games prevent? Well, it prevents those games from showing up on location, or the business operating them from actually operating. Anything the government doesn't like and can't outright ban (or would find it difficult to pass a ban), they can just tax into oblivion without actually making that thing illegal.

So, basically it seems to come down to two things. Government either wants to take more money to fund their ludicrous spending habits, or try to regulate something out of existence without actually passing a law to make it illegal.

This thread will be banned soon so here goes.

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_{Post edited by moderator: There are many places to discuss politics. This isn't one of them.}