In kind of in the same boat. My debate is between two 90's games or 1 New one. Ill make the decision once I have the 6-7G in hand and perhaps there will be a new title out that totally captivates me.

What ever you decide, try and play it first, to be sure you like it.

Some games are timeless and cross many different styles of players.

And if you never uncrated a NIB game, well that is an experience you won't soon forget. The smell of fresh wood and new paint.

Best wishes on what you decide.

LTG : )™

No question, buy a new one if you have the money. Play the classics at shows, arcades etc.

This is sort of a wishy-washy answer, but bear with me.

There are upsides to either. Bally/Williams 90s games tend to be more full-featured than Stern pros in terms of playfield toys and such, but most recent Sterns with completed code have somewhat more complicated rules (though that's not always the case.)

Either way you're going to encounter problems with reliability - Bally/Williams DMD games have several things that frequently go wrong (but are generally easy or not terribly expensive fixes,) whereas some new Sterns have problems with easy-to-break parts, or things that aren't right out of the box.

I love pinball, and wouldn't want to dissuade you from buying one, BUT it's worth noting that any pinball will come with precisely SOME headaches. My best advice is to find something that you enjoy playing, preferably that a local pinball friend says is in suitably good condition, and buy it! If anything does go wrong down the line, you can deal with that later; the community here will be more than happy to help.

That's a problem for the first two posters is they live in Alberta and Manitoba in Canada. We don't have "shows, arcades, etc."

They're VERY few and far between.

With the games you've listed it's as much a choice of fast vs. slow as new vs. old. ST and ACDC are fast, flowing games designed by Steve Richie, and TZ, TAF and RBION are more stop & go games by Pat Lawlor. They all have pretty deep rules. If you only plan on getting one than you should definitely try playing them some more. But, one from each designer would be better.

Soon.

violinfather, I'm new too, just getting deep into the hobby beginning back in August. Based on my experiences, I can tell you that I love all my games, 1 NIB Tron, 4 90's B/W and 1 80's Williams. They are all extremely fun to play and most still are challenging.

But the biggest difference I have found is that my new Stern does not give me any trouble and my 90's machines tons of troubles. My TZ and TAF have a big problem or two each right now and my IJ is totally down. I hate dealing with hardware, so I can't (have no interest in) fixing them myself. If you're into repairing, then you should be OK with the older games, but you may have some learning to do. But the new Sterns are simpler machines with less to go wrong which means more playing!

Just my 2 cents.

Of the games you listed, TZ and RBION have fantastic rules that you won't get bored of easily. Of the two, I would say RBION is going to be more reliable which you mention as a concern. TAF, for me at least, got old pretty fast. I loved the game in the arcades, but tired of it at home. Still love to play it once in a while, though.

If you are concerned about reliability, stick with the newer Sterns. You don't have to buy NIB. RBION is a newish Stern and I don't think you will have many issues. I've got a few Sterns and they are the most reliable of the bunch. I'm also finding Segas pretty reliable -- essentially the same board set just a little older.

If you are considering ST Premium, I'd wait and see. Let the code get developed before throwing down the money. Cann't offer advice on AC/DC as I really don't enjoy the game. I understand why people like it, but I find it boring as hell. I had one for a month -- picked one up for a buddy -- played it a ton, but just found it very, very repetitive. I definitely prefer Xmen and Avengers LE to AC/DC.

Cheers,
Duane

Depends on what you're into pinball for. I like restoring crusty old games, so new ones mean nothing to me - perhaps in 10-15 years I'll get into them

Play them all and decide which appeals more to you

Buy in haste; repent at leisure. I bought the first couple of pins on impulse and learned later that I liked others better. The more you can learn up front, the less money and time you'll waste later.

The majority of my pins are older and, sure, they have all had some problems, but not enough that I regret getting any of them. (The new pins have problems too, for the record.) A lot depends on your skill set, your willingness to learn, and, beyond do-it-yourself repair, the availability of a technician in your area.

In terms of machines I'd choose to own, I've found 90's to be better than 2010's machines, and I've found that I enjoy the 80's machines even more so. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule but you need to play a variety of machines before you decide. Go to an expo or find a large arcade and get an idea of what appeals to you.

Whatever you do, don't buy a machine based on reliability. You will learn how to fix any problem, and it's really not hard (some jobs are time consuming but not difficult). Buy a machine you like to play, and the more you like it the faster you will want to fix any problems.

Price is also an issue. For the cost of ST or ACDC premium you can probably buy RBION and another pin (WPT may be). At least if you encounter problems with one machine, you can play the other one until you learn to fix the first!

While I appreciate your optimism, this is HORRIBLE advice.
Many pinball hobbyists either don't have the tools, the time, or the know-how to fix alot of things that can go wrong with machines. Sure, you'll learn how to do some things, but if you live in an area without a pinball repair guy and aren't handy, you're asking for some major frustration if your first pin is an older title.

Don't just narrow your view on the 90's, some early 2000's, 80's machines are good fun. hell even go some EM's
It's all good.
NIB is like a new car more often than not. ie; you lose a lot of money if you choose a donkey.

The newer games tend to be harder, better sound and dots, and have deeper rules. Older games tend to be easier, shallower and need more TLC. I sold TAF because it was too easy, but it's really a fantastic game. If you aren't a good player, TAF is great and will keep you going. TZ is harder, but technically more to maintain. Two games not on your list that are worth considering are TSPP and LOTR, very reliable, deep rules and among the best ever made.

I wouldn't be getting a TZ as a "new" buyer… Its a complicated machine thats usually suited for someone who has been tinkering with pinballs for awhile..
Allot goes wrong with them.. Maybe some people are lucky and have had no issues but thats rare.

Unfortunately, this is absolutely true. I live in the middle of Iowa and finding a tech is damn near impossible! I bought an older pin as my first one and regret it for all the exact same reasons as stated above.

It really depends on the machine I think. I had a TSPP and POTC, both Sterns that looked great, played great (though I found TSPP a CHORE to play). Both wound up with mechanical issues. I had a STTNG that had nothing but issues. That's expected, right? It's a STTNG! BUT I had another STTNG that had zero issues.

Sometimes, no matter how closely you examine things, you're going to run into problems. I was like you guys when I was new to the hobby, I didn't want to fix anything, I just wanted to play. But over time, thanks to people like the great John Wart Jr and others on Pinside, I learned to fix minor issues. I'd still much rather play, but I also like being able to fix my machines than waiting for others to come get them back up and running.

Nothing worse than a machine that's sitting idle!

If you enjoy fixing and adjusting machines go for the 90's. If you prefer reliability buy new. Think of it as a new car vs used. Both have pros and cons! It depends on what your personality is like.
Some people enjoy search for the elusive rare part for their 90's. Other are frustrated by the same thing.
I have new 90's. I love them both! Play ac/dc and you might end up loving new.

I agree that it is key to have a good tech you can call for help if you have an older machine. Maybe on a newer one too. Try to find someone in your area you can call for help.

I love 90's WPC pins. Sterns just don't do it for me. I like games with simple straight forward rules that you could teach someone in 5 minutes. The newer games rules are too complicated for me. I also like the feel of the classics. The new ones feel too clunky and cheap to me. I only have WPC's even though a have owned Sterns too. ACDC premium probably had a more polished feel while Metallica felt clunky and cheap.

buy an ac/dc premium and go from there.

It all comes down to preference. I dig 90s pins because those are what I played in arcades as a teen so I have nostalgia for them. And I like keeping them in stock arcade condition to kind of fulfill that fantasy (I even prefer the "ugly" standard rules cards). What I think is amazing is that no two pin collectors do it for the same reasons or in the same way. You need to discover your reasons, your fantasy, and build your collection to fulfill it. Sometimes you need to just get started to figure it out - you can sell/trade machines till you get there.

People buying pins without any expectation of learning at least *some* repair skills either have way too much money to waste, or are living in a fantasy world. I have known both types of people. I was never much of anything as a kid other than a video game nerd, and I really came into pinball with pretty much no applicable skills to speak of. It's not like you can install Windows on a pinball machine. Skills I have learned exclusively because of pinball/for pinball:

Soldering
Wiring
Crimping
Digital logic diagnosis
Reading schematics
Multimeter operation
More than I ever though I'd know about capacitors, resistors, and transistors.
Restoration skills

And that's just a really basic overview. Literally every time I've been at wit's end and about to call in a "professional", the solution has presented itself. I've been to the point of just throwing in the towel at least three or four times on as many machines, and the solution always seems to come out of nowhere. My wife finds a mis-wire that I caused (one lamp socket out of literally every possible connection on Space Shuttle...I cut the entire harness off the playfield components when I did my swap and re-soldered them all.), I find a useful tip on Pinwiki or Pinside, or I just have been lucky. I understand not everyone is technically inclined, but this is already a REALLY expensive hobby for most of us... do you really want to pay someone 75$/hour to fix minor crap like flipper rebuilds and repinning connectors?

I prefer a mix of both, as I really enjoy the classic B/Ws, I also like some of the newer titles. I do hate how we as a hobby have to decide between Pro's, Premiums, and LE's. Also to plop down 7K on a game that I have never played has stopped me from any further NIB emotional purchases. I'm only a HUO guy now with all the new stuff.

I can't decide which way to go with my next pin either. I have 50 50 B/W and Stern pins. The maintenance hasn't been a issue at all. The better B/W titles cost more then a NIB Stern. It's nice to have the option depending on my mood to play a 2-3 minute of FT or a 10-20 minute game of POTC. I love the feel, simple rules and artwork of 90's B/W pins. But I also like the rules and modern toys on newer Sterns. I'm on the fence right now between picking up a nice MB or a NIB Luci.

both have their camps. I mean people who will defend either position.

I started owning the old games, mainly because at the time they were cheaper. But I graduated up to the A-list BW games such as TZ, IJ and they were not much cheaper than the new games.

I found I like the newer games better. Partly because I like new games that don't look like they have been played 10,000 times. For example while I like IJ and TZ better than PotC, I have kept my PotC because although it's 7-8 years old, it looks the same as the day I unboxed it. I have had it for 7-8 years but probably less than 1000 plays on it, and I have not had one thing go wrong with it.

My IJ and TZ were always tough to keep running. (Especially for me as I am not a fix it myself guy).

I have Tron zero issues, STLE zero issues.

I had owned CFTBL for quite a while, sold it but missed it so got one back a year latter. In that time, I had been playing Tron, XM, ACDC premium. When I got the CFTBL back, I was shocked to realize that I didn't like it any more. It was the same game, but I was bored with the way it played.

I played Congo, a game some people rave about, and found it not to my liking. Even with it being half the cost of a SM. I would rather have SM any day.

Just my view. But I am 100% Stern and plan on getting more new games (as opposed to used old games in the future).

It is a minor point, but to me, I think it's also good for the hobby to have people buying NIB games as we are supporting Stern or JJP or Skit-B (etc.) and will be the source of future 'used' games down the road. If all people went away from NIB games, possibly Stern would have gone under and we might not have had such games as Tron, AcDc, ST which I think can stand toe to toe with older classic games.

I had a TOTAN and while it was very nice looking and highly regarded, I'd take a Tron or SM to own.

Tough choices ..... I've been lucky to have the chance at opening 2 Nib pins and there is just something special about opening that box and turning the machine on for the first time...... Really comes down to your own personal preferences .....

For that kind of money, it might be worth taking the time and money and fly to a show or some place where you can play them.

LTG : )

Anyone ever find that the longer they're into pinball the more apathetic they get about the 90's Bally/Williams stuff? I have some, I'm just saying - I find myself thinking about dumping all of them sometimes for a newer game. Maybe it's just because I've played some of them to death.

If its a question of 2 90's vs 1 new and the 90's are in a condition requiring no repairs then go with the 2. For the simple reason no one pin is enough. Even the best game as a standalone pin will leave you tired of it. Just my experience. Also couple older games at a lower price point may be easier to sell down the line at little to no loss.

I rarely play sttng, Apollo 13, and Demolition Man since I bought AC/DC. I am putting LED kits into them, and I am going to add a shaker to sttng (and maybe demo man to with demo time). This is basically an expensive experiment to see if I will play them more when they look newer.

I used to work on games, but I just don't want to do it anymore. I am paying $250 per machine to get shopped and the LEDs swapped, so I don't have to do it.

At this point, I only plan to buy new games. Metallica when it is finished, then I don't know. There is nothing else that has been announced that I am interested in.

Have you tried using the PinMap to find other pinsiders near you? A new pinhead in my town reached out to me a couple of weeks ago and I was glad to let him come try out my Tron before he got one. He liked it and pulled the trigger on getting his own last week.

Find some near you with machines you'd like to play and PM them to see if they will let you come try their's out.

Congo and TOTAN aren't nearly as good as other 90s WMS titles. Congo is B game that seems to be fad of the season, and TOTAN is a basic, beginner-oriented game (that is very pretty).

There is no dilemma for me. WPC all the way. I have lotr, tspp, and ACDC, and would buy a WPT, and possibly a SM (I have been on the fence for 4 years on these, and always decide no), but above that, I don't drink koolaid so my decisions are crystal clear.

I opted out of WOZ, but hobbit is one I'm strongly considering. I would still rather have woz over 90% of the sterns out there.

Didn't see cost noted in the OP. Cost of a player RBION and TZ and all in cost of a st premium - I'd still stick with the two game option. Particularly for his first games

You know, if you are like the rest of us, you will wind up with, or at least go through, all of them anyway... You have to start somewhere!

Dave

+1 on LOTR. That and a NIB Tron were my first two purchases.

"No Question" ?????? Sorry, there actually is a question or 10.

That new car smell: How much are you willing to spend for the new car smell. In all probability, that NIB game will drop 20% as soon as you slide it out of the box and screw legs on it.

Buying a turd; Every game Stern puts out is called the best game ever by various pinheads. They often turn out to be not the best games ever. Think BBH, Monopoly, 24, CSI, Sopranos, WOF and Avatar for example. A WB pin is a known quantity. The desirability of the game is already accurately priced into the game. A NIB, not so much.

2 or 3 for 1: Do you want to play the same NIB game over and over and over, or, would you rather have two or three WB games?

Quality: Do you think a new Stern game is of equal or better quality than a WB game?

Appreciation: Pins are not investments, but there is a fixed supply of WB games, and that supply decreases every day (fires, floods, part-outs, etc). Decreased supply = higher prices. JJP is, IMHO, going to crank out every last WOZ he can, including green LE's, red LE's and chartreuse LE's if he can. More games - lower prices.

My first pin is theatre of magic. It was always my favorite. I am very happy with it.

My take now that I've had it for 7 months is I will Likely sell the tom for something else at some point. I think getting all the pins I want is out of the question for a few years so I see my ownership of any game as temporary. I hope to even trade my game to another local pinhead for a while to keep things fresh, if possible.

If I could buy one machine now, it would be tron or an attack from mars, or perhaps a Star Trek le.

Or perhaps a Lucy acdc...

With prices that keep going up up up, down, back up it is getting much easier for me to say F'it and just go NIB. The prices on these games are just out of control. At least with a good NIB game the price is more or less the same for everyone. You don't have to question if you got a decent deal on it or not. Not to mention the maintenance problems and rare game specific parts that you might need and can't find as easy as some of the NIB games. I love the old B/W games, but people think they are sitting on untold treasures with some of these games, even from just a year and a half ago when I was able to get a STTNG in great condition for 2600 and a WWF RR for 1000. Today those prices are unheard of....they were not dogs, they were nice examples. If I'm going to pay upwards of 5,6,7,8, 9000 bucks on a game it's going to be NIB.

We're talking about pinball machines here people. Most of us are blessed to be able to spend this kind of cash on toys but enough is enough with the craziness.

I disagree about Congo. It's a game that took a long time to be "discovered" because people tended to shy away from the theme and there weren't that many made. If Congo is a "fad of the season", it has been quite a long fad- one that has lasted for at least three years. This is about how long this title has seen its stock rise.

Unless you have unlimited cash and space, that's the logic to have. I cycle at least one machine out a year. I'm getting close to the point of having once owned every machine I ever wanted to own. Own them forever? No, but I have my fun and move onto the next one...

If money is a issue go with RBION as it is under valued if money is not a issue go with POTC , TSPP, CV, TZ

deep rule sets are only fun if you can get to the end ounce in a while