Our company has managed trade shows for 20 years and we could never get away with this (not sticking to a published schedule). I'm sure it's a slightly different type of show then ours, and Wednesday through Sunday is a LONG time to be setup at a show, but just close it Saturday evening. SFGE stayed open until 2 p.m. Sunday and it was great for the attendees, but we didn't setup until Thursday night and Friday morning. As someone who brought a lot of games for the free play area, I was toast by Sunday afternoon. If we had started the show Wednesday I don't think I would've lasted through Sunday.

Sorry you had this happen, I had 13 of my games there, CSI and Met were mine. We had 2 trailers ours and a rental, and we had to pack up the first one at 8am Sunday morning because there was a family issue that they had to get home for...That being said, we try to leave our games up as long as possible, but we had to change the selection going in that trailer because of the last minute leaving earlier issue. If it was a rule that games could not leave before 4, then I would not be able to bring games to the shows. It is just not feasible for me with travel time and loading unloading issues and having to work the next day just does not work. I know this is the case with some vendors as well, They have to get packed up and home so they get to work on Mon. morning. There were still vendors open and selling at 10 or so, I was in there buying.
I don't know what the answer is, but the schedule really doesn't say anything but Flipout is going on, but saying the show ends at 4 is a bit of a stretch. It has been that way though for as long as I have been going. Sun. is load up day...pretty much dread Sun. because it means the show is over for another year!
Phoebe

Ive gone on a sunday twice before and yes the floor is usually depleted but not THAT bad. WOW. Total bummer man, sorry to hear that.

How on Earth is this Pinside's fault? Misinformation gets spread around all the time. It's just the way of the internet.

Well, perhaps people don't post things on pinside that they do not know to be true ... maybe we start out like that. I seem to be spending alot more time on pinside having to deal with this issue, so I would argue that pinside is a little more focused than just the random 'internet'.

My point was that people say untrue things in online forums all the time. It isn't limited to Pinside. All public forums are like this. And since it's a public forum, you have the right to dispute any comments that you feel are inaccurate. It upsets me when people blame Pinside, as though the site itself is somehow intrinsically bad. People are people, and when you throw a whole bunch of them into the mix, all sorts of shit is going to be said. As moderators, we do our best to filter out the crap, but it's not like we are all knowing and all seeing. If you ever have a problem with something that is posted, you can always contact a member of the staff and we will look into it.

Phoebe,

You are awesome, and Expo simply wouldn't be the same without you and your crew. We know how much work it is to bring all those games every year, and we truly appreciate it. Thank you from all of us!

I know I sure as hell don't trust the majority of what you say.

How about we start out with people running a company that have no idea how to treat customers should not be the vocal one on the biggest forum in pinball and constantly stirring shit up?

You already started your own forum and piss and moan constantly about the things here. Nothing is keeping you here...

Did you ever stop to think that the problem may be YOU?

I just don't understand why PPS and others can't respect the 4pm Sunday close of the expo.

Its the banquet that kills the show. Tons of people were waiting to go in to the exhibitors hall at 11 but it didn't open up till 11:45.

I agree that the show unofficially ends like Sunday morning at 2-4am. Vendors don't want to stay up all night then drive home in the late afternoon.

The difference that everyone is overlooking is that these shows listed are Fri-Sat-Sun shows or Sat-Sun. Expo is Wed, Thur, Fri, Sat and Sunday. With 2 day shows it is easier to wait until later on Sunday to tear down since you just got there the day before. After being at Expo for 5 days, people are ready to get the hell out of there on Sunday.

Rick and I have no problems?? we always kid about this and that One thing to remember us unlike any other show START on weds we have over 100 machines on WEDS and we run all night Thursday friday and sat AND game hall was open from Thursday at 6pm continuous until like midnight sat with all games pretty much there. some of our vendors travel pretty far so they like to get on road at reasonable time on SUNDAY

Seattle show is very strict about moving games out early. Making it a great show to show for players.

_{Post edited by pinlynx: Better Judgment}

Fight! Fight! Fight!

image.jpg

You know that's right. I had my games there Thurs-Fri-Sat-Sun and only got a 3 day refund.

BECAUSE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING DOESNT EXIST! Technically, the vendor hall is done 6PM Sat., and the free play area is done by Sunday morning. They are NOT on the schedule Sunday like all the other days and times that either are open.

Traditionally, the vendor hall opens for a bit when the banquet closes, but that is usually fairly late on Sat. night (11pm or so...) and at that time, a lot of vendors pack up.

The main room closed load in day (closed overnight) and Friday AM (opened at 1). The bonus free play room was open from Thursday until Sunday and had about 25 games available.

We close the main free play room for the tournament, they need a large quantity of community games to get what they need done, and don't want the distraction of the non-tournament folks in the room. We tried to sort out the logistics of moving them to a separate space, but a few things got in the way, the biggest of which is there was no extra room this year!

Thanks,

Andrew

SFGE did it right. Hope other Expos take note of their model.

From a vendors stand point four days is way too long at any show. If the people have not bought whatever it is in the first two days, there not going to buy it at all. I'd love to be out of there and on the road by the 5pm Saturday closing time but out of respect for Mike and the show itself I dont pack up until Sunday when I see others doing it. Loading in at out at that show is a giant pain and making 5-6 trips back and fourth through the hallways gets old fast, not to mention people that want to park up to the loading ramp like they own it just kills me. I myself was a little surprised how many people had left on Sunday so early this year but it is what it is. I'm glad to see they were not charging to get in on the last day though. Overall its a nice show, still and probably always will need some tweaking like any show but with that many people and things going on you cant please everyone.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

Clay,
You left off the Michigan Pinball Expo (MPE)

We leave games up until 5:00 p.m.
There have been exceptions for games brought from out-of-state.

Totally agree, if you pay for a day pass, you need to get a reasonable (8hrs?) day.

Then, vendors and game load out would start late Saturday afternoon. Banquet attendance would suffer. Those in driving distance would save a night's motel cost. You have few games to play if you skipped the banquet or expected to play after the banquet - and new complaints from those that stayed until Sunday morning.

I'm in the trade show business. That's what happens.

I've always gotten to expo on Wednesday evening and leave around noon on Saturday.
I have a fairly long drive and like a day to install parts and play with any new machines for a day before returning to the real world of work.
If people get bent out of shape because I take my game home Saturday morning, you should have been there for the busiest times Thursday and Friday.
I was stranded in Chicago until Monday last year with car issues, and other than the Tourney, Sunday is completely a tear down day. By 2pm last year, there were like 4 machines left in the free play area.
I will concede Mike should adjust his advertisement to at least have an asterisk on Sunday saying very few machines will be available for play.

This is very misleading, and the wording should be changed.

Most of the shows I've been to start to peter out towards the end of the last day, but I've never seen a ghost town like that on the start of the last day....

I'm actually really surprised that the vendors picked up and left at that point.

Well yeah. That text was probably reused on the site from previous years and should probably be updated. I always go by the PDF schedule because sometimes links and such are wrong/broken on the website. The PDF schedule tends to be daily accurate, for future reference. Sunday is always "break down and go home day" for EVERY SINGLE gaming show I have ever been to (over 50 in the last 10 years).

I think the question is what time on Sunday. At SFGE break down started at 2 p.m.

On a positive note, it was nice to meet you and your friend on Sunday and play LOTR with you.

I couldn't make it on saturday, and I spent friday at pinball life. I got there sunday morning at 9am, both halls about half empty, but at least I could still play a few titles in the game hall I never tried yet (cyclops, TMNT), and could still play heighway pinball, hobbit (only 2 people in line), and nearly any walking dead or mustang at the marco booth. All the boutique pinballs were turned off, and I didn't feel right turning them on. Earthshaker aftershock was running, but didn't seem to be in free play mode so couldn't start a game.

With that said, they also weren't charging anyone to play (and I only have a 40 minute drive). Since the consensus from the collectors that bring pins that they want to pack up early, maybe Mike should adjust the schedule and say (free play area open till 10pm saturday night), with the expectation that people will pack up early, and leave sunday to finish the tournaments only.

I'm also assuming if games are pulled early, Mike doesn't give rebates for entry fee?

I think that it should be stated on the schedule that Sunday is tear down or at least note that the game hall and vendor hall will have limited availability. I know that it does not say that the Game hall is open on Sunday but it can lead to confusion. Also in one section of the schedule is states Vendor hall open and in another it states Exhibit hall closes. It should say Vendor hall closes. Again possible confusion.

Maybe they could turn banquet into a Sunday brunch and just close to the public late Saturday night?

best idea for improvment yet!

Allentown pack up is 6-7pm Saturday night. The place is empty by 8pm. As a vendor I want Sunday as a travel day at any expo I have to work. That's just me

I went to Expo once about 5 years ago when I was living in Milwaukee. Wasn't quite as bad as your pics show, but had a similar experience. Got there about 8 or 9 a.m. and was about half full and shrinking fast. Won't make that mistake again. I now go to Allentown every year, but I make a weekend out of it and get there at the public opening on Friday at 12:00 noon.

OK, if thats the case, fine. Answer this then, did chicago gaming make your shirts, mouse pads and other trinkets that you brought, because those were boxed up to. I apologize if I was wrong on the disagreement part. I was told directly from one of your distributors that you and Mike had a disagreement. But again, If I am wrong, I apologize. But that has nothing to do with your other merchandise that wasnt there. I was there all week, so I really had seen everything 100's of times, but the amount of distributors that never returned saturday night, and when they returned sunday was to tear down was very poor (so you are not the only one). If you were not at expo before the banquest, you missed out on at least 50% of the vendors.

But since you are already mad at me, ill go ahead and say it. Your presence at the show for Bay area is somewhat shameful. You are one of if not the largest parts supplier for pinball, but instead of bringing parts and things to the show, you come with mousepads and t-shirts. I know that it is a logistic issue to bring parts and by no means can you bring even a fraction of what would keep people happy. But many smaller companies like X-pin, Starship Fantasy, Circus Maximus travel a great distance as well, and they brought product. The other large parts company, Marco, at least puts up a huge display for everyone to enjoy

Hold on a Minute I do California Extreme and I exhibit A LOT of games and it takes a long time to setup, The show is Saturday and Sunday but Setup Starts On Wed night and usually takes 2-3 days to be ready, when your dealing with setting up over 600 pins and vids we do not roll in on friday morning and set up and open Saturday. CAX for me starts wed morning and ends monday night.

Joe(acejedi)

If the show schedule sez the show closes at 4 pm, yes; refuse to let them leave or charge an early departure fee (up front) and if they leave early, Pacek & Berk keep the money. Then again, it will be funny if vendors start posting about the show promoters doing a disappearing act when it comes time to get back their fee.

If the vendors have to be at a real job on Monday, they should not attend or they need to have help to work Sunday and pack up and bring their displays and unsold stuff back. The other person(s) can leave early. A few years ago I paid for a Sunday wrist band around 8 am (was also there Saturday) and felt ripped off as the machines & vendors cleared out by 11. Never again have I paid for a Sunday admission. Glad they did not make you pay this year.

Forcing people (vendors OR collectors) to stay thru Sunday is not an option. The only answer is to correct the advertising and verbage on the schedules to reflect the reality that Sunday is load-out day.

Bingo! If they tried to force everyone to stay until 4 PM on Sunday, the show would lose half its games and vendors.

Maybe Doug Duba should answer here. You acting as his hired hand mouthpiece is damaging the whole MMr business model.

Yeah, we were there for finals all day Sunday, and we thought this was total crap. Free play and vendor hall almost completely empty by 2PM. Totally unreasonable and if I would have made a special trip in for one day I would've been royally pissed. Hell, I tried holding off until Sunday to make my purchases to make sure I had enough room in my luggage to get everything home. Good thing those companies didn't want my money anyway. However, I do agree that fixing the verbiage and scheduling would be a reasonable fix.

Maybe I am way off base here but...
I would think that a pinball vendor going to a pinball show is part of their real job.

They should stay the advertised time. If there is a problem with that the event organizers and vendors need to be on the same page so that the public doesn't get screwed, or feel like they missed something.

They just need to end the show minus tournament on Sunday

KILL POWER! (End of iron man reference lol)

"The party's over.. Then again, the party was over for me, like, an hour and a half ago. The after party starts in fifteen minutes!"

First of all get your story straight. We are there are PPS, not Bay Area. Secondly 'most' of the others drive in, we are in California, so we fly in and ship some items at great expense to have there. I don't see Marco selling alot of pinball parts there, as alot of that setup is in coordination with Stern. Mike and I are fine, we are alway bantering, and as you seem to be repeating something from someone else, etc. Also we fly back on Sunday morning that's what we do to get back home by monday. We flew in on Tuesday and were there and accessible thruout. We have thousands of parts, next you would complain that we didn't bring the 'right' parts - we bring what we thing will be most interesting at the shows, and most everyone knows and purchases online. They come to shows to get some unique stuff and/or save on shipping for which is not doable for us to ship from california there. But again, my logic probably is not sufficient.

So, based on your experience, what should be done to make this work right?

As you see, if free play games are held hostage, game owners will flat out not bring games. I support shows with games, and I don't make a dime. The cost and risk of machine damage, make me wonder why we do bring games. If the show is local to me, my machine can stay through a reasonable time, but I will be home with family on Sunday night.

The vendors are at the shows for sales and to promote goods, so that is their incentive. Holding them hostage, and we can see them reducing what they bring because of the late load-out.