Churchill Cabinet Company (founded in 1904) and Chicago Gaming are the same company.

http://www.pinballnews.com/news/churchill.html

Dammit, I really want to know who's making the bolts for the legs.

Nope, just clearing up disinformation as usual. That's all.

Myself, i am sorry for all those who already own the game and are afraid of their investment, applies to new MM owners in the past 5 years. But on the other hand, i cannot wait till the standard "pro" repo version is made, as i will be on the list for one asap. Sorry, but 5k for a repo of one of the best games ever is a no brainer for alot of collectors and avid players as well as route op's who want to throw them back out on route to collect.

With all this announced and afm a possible canidate, let me be the first to say i am glad i sold my afm, and look forward to replacing it also, at a more manageable price (bought my afm 9 years ago, sold it a month ago). Not to mention the potential for other titles that have sky rocketed out of alot of *some* collectors budget can and may also be re popped. Safecracker, Whitewater, CV, TOTAN are all without major licensing issues tied to hollywood.

Bravo Rick...... I wish you success

My 2 cents on remakes...

joker.png

You said it perfectly!!!!

Are they using overlays on the MM remakes as well?

bravo to remaking medieval madness, lets see cactus canyon redone. i will still enjoy playing the original, along with many other williams games. lets see how the repro's play. i love my metallica, but my williams pins still play better than stern's games. hopefully the new mm's will play good and be reliable. boo hoo if you are a stern fan and i upset you, but williams games will always be the best.

oops, forgot to say, its all about enjoying the games you like... regardless of the maker, specific game, repro, blah blah blah. people who are concerned with values of pins for reselling should be concerned, but i dont care. i buy pins for the enjoyment of playing them, not staring at them for how nice they look. the last thing i am going to do is buy a pinball machine and watch it collect dust. the value of pins to me is in the enjoyment of playing them, not sweating about how much i will make or lose from buying one. flip on everybody

block quote "To the people who complain its hurting their MM value (the remake) and whine… Stop being so dam greedy and selfish!"

For the record before we get to far down assumption road. I sold two machines and saved for over a year to buy my MM.

If I whine when it loses 4K+ over night I think I am entitled to that. If you really wanted a MM you would find a way. Now that I found a way I watched it go up then crash. Great for the hobby..........

Consider all things before bashing people just because they have an MM. Some of us work hard for a living and save save save to afford the bottom much less the top tier games.

After reviewing your collection I see why you are so stoked. The title eludes you for one reason or another and this remake probably puts in your reach. As I am glad for that you do not need to trash talk the current owners as you do not know each of us individually.

Nice example. But noone is building something in front of your place. You still have the wonderful view you had before. Someone found a new nice patch of land at the ocean and may offer new houses cheaper than what you paid for yours, but your house stays the same.

I understand you regret buying a MM for more $ than you would have to pay for a Remakle now. But hey, we all make those wrong decisions sometimes. Enjoy your MM - after all you thought the thing is worth what you're paying for it.
But your argument sounds like you envy others to get the same experience for a lower price. That has nothing to do with enjoyment of some hobby. That's a worrying character trait I hope you'll overcome.

Win some, lose some. You just need to move on. You paid for MM and that is what you have. You were never guaranteed a profit.

Exactly. I have never reached the 4K mark on a machine yet. To spend 12K on one game and feel that money is safe forever is not rational thought especially when someone else had already taken a shot at doing remakes.

If all pins were losing value, I would not mind. Win some, lose some. For me, buying a new pin now means selling another: space is limited. I would basically have the same "exchange value". Lower prices would also mean easier access to newcomers, which is a good thing.

On the other hand, I fully understand why current MM owners are concerned about ONE pin losing value - several $k -. Their exchange potential is affected. Although I like MM, assuming I had one, I doubt I would keep it eternally and I would consider its potential market value - again, not in terms of $, but in terms of "pins I could get in a trade". So give these owners a break! Not all MM owners are multi-millionaires and some of them actually bought it to play it, knowing they would probably get tired of it after a while...

You knew remakes were going to happen sooner or later. I've learned 2 things that make people upset.

1) Money
2) Clearcoat

mmgrave.jpg

That picture is classic!

Per the OP's original analogy ... when has a car company ever remade a car identical to one from 40 or 50 years ago? I don't see them doing something so dumb.

And there are plenty of people who don't own an MM who still think this is a bad thing for pinball. It's not all about money.

Well, there's the Eagle Speedster, for those who didn't jump on the E-type buying bandwagon 50 years ago:
http://www.jaguarspeedster.com/

lol. Never heard of it. Sounds like it was a huge success for them. Seriously ... why doesn't Ford remake the identical 67' Mustang (for example). Would it not sell (with a modern engine under the hood)?

See my earlier post about the differences between pins and cars. Smog/safety/fuel efficiency.....regulatory differences between 1967 and 2013 would make it near impossible to remake.

Ridiculous. As I said ... what's under the hood I don't care (just as people don't seem to care how the electronics are changing on MM.) Give me the 67' Shelby Mustang body. I'm sure the big 3 could figure it out and if they said we're building only 75,000 ... they would sell in a heartbeat.

Even the people buying a MMLE are crying when they find out that they have been bumped to a STANDARD & consider cancelling their order, so much for just wanting a MM

That's right! An old car wouldn't pass any test.

This is what happens when you remake an old body shape into a new car ....

image-849.jpg

image.jpg

"He's not selling" because he can't sell them now?.......I assume you don't have "six originals" unless you were holding them to restore for people? ......whatever dude, maybe you can talk about yourself in the 3rd person........pathetic

I seriously don't know what is wrong with people, a new pin producer enters the market to re-make one of the all time greats with more to come and all some people can do is whine and cry about it.....get over it

This is coming from someone who is already showing Predator and Zombie Adventureland in their collection as if they are already out. .....Pathetic.

How often do YOU live in 3rd person???

Hopefully those games will not get affected by this hype and are still successful when they debut.

What rubbish. I am a player and not a collector but yet I have a MM and an AFM in the gamesroom. And I know 4 other 'players' who have a MM.

"I'm not a player I just crush alot"...- Big Pun

The KOD remake was 2 - 3x (possibly more) what an original cost. The equivalent to that would be if PPS was charging 25 - 40k for a remake.

The originals will always have value, just like old cars do.

People are gonna bitch about the new board system, how much MDF is in the cabinet, how many microns thick the backglass is, etc.

20 years from now we're going to see MMR on "Pawn Stars: Generations" and it'll be revealed it's not an original (cue Bowed Oil Cans sound) and Rick's great grandson will only offer 5k (which in 2033 will buy you a hamburger)

My concern is whether the market is growing fast enough to absorb all of the new productions popping up. Videogames, dot com, housing (and soon Apple) did the same thing, assuming unlimited growth.

....at $8K a pop!

Interesting times.

They kept remaking the Volkswagen Beetle for what, 65 years?

They would probably still be making them if emission and safety standards had not risen all around the world.

Yeah! And nobody should have made any violins after Stradivari! Look what happened to the prices on used Statavarius's!

It's upsetting that collectors such as myself are being lumped in with the speculator/flippers, we are not one in the same. A lot of collectors have worked hard to find games we like and that represent what pinball means to us, and whether we plan to sell a game or not, we certainly shouldn't be expected to feel happy that something we collected just lost a significant amount of it's value. Unless the collector is in a situation where he needs to sell right now though, in the long run, it shouldn't really matter.

On the other hand, those who don't give a damn about anything but $$ and treat pinballs like just another commodity, have helped drive up the prices and deserve whatever backlash the market gives them. They rode the wave up, they now may have to take the hit on the way down.

Ask yourself this question, if you collected 1 of something that there were only 10 of in the world, something you were planning on selling to fund your retirement, then suddenly one day they found a 1000 of them in a vault and the value plummets, would you really be saying "gee I'm happy that 1000 other people get to have one" or be pissed that you now have to work until you die!! Exaggerated example I know, but you get the point.

When someone paid whatever price to buy a MM, they decided that is what the game was worth to them. The price they pay is the personal value they place upon the game.

Those who claim owning the game holds no status are in denial. There's no other good reason to pay such a premium. (yeah, yeah owners can say it's the greatest game ever, but it's not - no game can make that claim.)

If an owner is upset about the possible price drop, it would appear that they paid more than it was really worth to them, and therein lies the problem. If the owner loves the game at the price they chose, the remake shouldn't matter.

The game is not intrinsically more valuable. It gets old just like any other game.

The dinosaurs will not let their hoarding die without a fight! Other side of the coin. OH no! I just preordered 7 Star Treks and it just xmened at expo! Now they're selling MM? pop.. burst. break. pop. hahahahahahahahhahaa Sheisters got sheisted.

Here's MY take (as one of the ignorant many):

I only own ONE PIN---TSPP---and you bet I am hoping it someday increases in value. No, I don't think I'll live to see prices quadruple, BUT IF, in twenty-five years, my Pinball Party should, by some miracle, happen to be worth $14,000 or something crazy like that, (accounting for inflation) I think I'd probably be pretty bummed to discover STERN was re-releasing it.
lol---just sayin'.

Buying into a hobby with the expectation of making money is setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't understand this logic at all.

No, you misunderstand. I bought this because I love it, and The Simpsons. I wanted a collectible that I could enjoy, not one that just sits on a shelf. That being said, I still hope it appreciates in value. Not expecting it to, but yes, hoping. In fact, I never dreamed it would go UP in value until I read this post.
So, Mr. "I don't understand this logic", maybe you should try understanding the law of supply and demand, instead. THAT'S what my post was about; not the b/s conclusion you managed to draw.

What we're seeing here is called 'schadenfreude'. It was a popular term during the housing bust.

I very clearly recall friends and acquaintances who had just bought into some overpriced condo or house, beaming with pride, and very often superiority, because now they were a member of the great housing gold rush. When I told them I still rented they would look at me pityingly and explain that 'it's not too late', like I was some poor member of the underclass they could save through their sage advice.

The same dynamic was beginning to take hold with MM. I definitely saw the "it always goes up" mentality at play, the sense of sitting on guaranteed returns, and maybe just a little too much pride in ownership.

More Forbes 400 members have Real Estate as their source of wealth than Pinball Machines.

If only there was no MM remake, things might've been different....