I agree and like to see speculators run off also but you guys are acting like somebody's giving you a gift or something.
These repro's are *eight thousand dollars*... plus shipping, tax etc... hardly a great way to bring "new blood" into the hobby.
I was lucky to be around when they were made and $3400 seemed ridiculous to me at the time. I don't think I could part with 8k... ouch.

I'd be careful labeling some people "dandy's with deep pockets" (though I like the phrase) because you guys lining up to drop 8k without a worry just might be "those dandy's"

Maybe it's just me getting back into it after 10 years - I find the current prices of everything pretty shocking... everybody else seems to think 8k is a bargain. OK I now see I have written "8k" about 10x now... I need sleep

When you buy pinball machines based entirely on 'what it's worth and how much it's going to be worth', and you're viewing an artificially inflated price as an investment, you have to accept the fact that investments don't always double and triple in price, sometimes they go down.
Owning a MM, AFM, MB was like being in an elite club. Now they're letting everyone in the club and that's hard to swallow sometimes. I personally think it's great, but I was never crazy enough to drop 12k on a 20 year old routed game. It's fun, just not that fun.

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Higher value pins are often bought with speculation about their future value, rather than bought for their great playability. It's comparable to buying stocks. You will sometimes lose money. It's just the way it is. Owners can whine if it makes them feel better, but it won't change a thing.

Yeah, because people that will be paying $8,000 for a remake of a toy are the super poor.

lol nailed that one... apparently a lot of deep pockets in pinball these days. It's like "the rich" and the "slightly richer"

I hope everyone that wanted a new MM got in on it before the "pin flippers" cornered the market. After they're sold out, all you'll see for sale is NIB ebay deals.

Steve

What misfortune? Anyone who's had one to enjoy or could afford one recently is pretty damn fortunate!

Don't get me wrong. I think the current 8K prices are too high as well, and I'm not lining up for an LE.

A standard edition at 6.5-7 thousand would have my attention. I'm not sure what the exact inflation rates from your $3400 purchase back in the 90s would calculate at. I don't expect a sub 7K version would be too far off, heck the copper would have been dirt cheap back then. We'll have to see what the plans are after the initial 1000 are out the door.

My main interest is in the machines that are not restored, and need work. New production frees up these types of machines away from the flippers. It gives the real hobbyists a chance to acquire them now. Now the flippers have to complete with the hobbyists for these machines (instead of the other way around). The profit margin has evaporated for the vultures on this title.

It's a good day for real pinball people.

As far as I understand it, there's no intention to stop making the machines after the first 1000 LEs are out. It is also my understanding that they are already allocated/sold out of these LEs. I'll wait for the standard version, or source a newly, reasonably priced non-restored original.

Like it says on the lottery tickets here in WA.... For entertainment only, not investment. If you buy and expect to sell at a profit some time in the future, then I think you have missed the point. Never look at your pins as a 401K. It takes the fun out of it.

They will take a hit and it sucks:
A. If you bought one for $6-8000 +
B. if you plan on selling yours within the next 3+ years.

They will take a hit because:
A. A collectible from the 90's (90's!) that is meant to played with and used, is not an antique and the play is what gives it value even more so than the rarity. People want to play it, not just lock it in a safe, store it in a garage or put it In a glass case. MM is not your typical collectible you protect and do not touch.

It does suck though if you dropped $14,000 on one. We all pinball people and we do not care about the money side though. Right?

True. MM was and still is the Holy Grail of machines for some people. Kind of hard to feel sorry for anyone that actually had one. If someone had their MM stolen, destroyed in a fire, damaged in shipment, etc, I would feel bad for them. If someone had to sell their prized MM because of a family misfortune, I would feel bad. If the value drops on a machine and it is not worth as much as it was in the past, I have no sympathy. If someone got the machine to play, they were more fortunate than most. If they bought for an investment they should have realized that there are no guarantees. I bought some machines years ago planning on making a profit and sold at the worst possible time. I took a loss as the pins that I bought dropped in value. I did not complain, I just dealt with it and moved on.

Talking about the people already who have those games and complaining about a value drop. They thought that there was no way that any of those games could ever be reproduced, bought for large sums (at least in the last few years) and are now crying in their milk because a company who owns the rights to the games is actually starting to make them.

What did my post have anything to do with those who are about to drop $8000 on a reproduction?

Misfortune applied to purchasers of $10-20k toys? Please.

The argument always devolves into claims of "jealously", doesn't it?

There's only 1000 of them, not like it's an endless supply of MM's rolling off the assembly line for the next 5 years.

Exactly, the market can and will absorb that many without a flood to it. They won't make many more than they can sell, they know that if they flood the market, they'll be forced to sell off games for a lot less which isn't a very good business plan. I'm guessing that's what a lot are hoping for but if you're in that crowd, you'll end up without.

Steve

Churchill Cabinet Company.

Same company that made the playfields and cabinets for the original MM.

It will be made in the exact same factory as it was 20 years ago.

Exactly-

When has 8k become an affordable pin for the masses?

$5,217

There IS an endless supply.

If you watched the video, they said 1000 LEs, then as many "standards" as the market will absorb afterwards.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ann-medieval-madness-remake-standard-edition

I don't know if I've read THAT much butt-hurt over the MM remake.

I think a lot of owners (myself included) have been largely supportive. More people get a chance to own this great game! Cool with me!

I DO think in my heart of hearts that a couple years from now, a lot of the myth behind MM will be deconstructed, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. If pinball keeps getting generally healthier, then there will be bigger and better choices for the money as pinball design FINALLY seems to be evolving.

So I think, instead of whining, I'm more interested to see how pinball hobbyists view getting the best bang for their buck in an $8k purchase. If there's any disappointment on my end, it's NOT because other people get to own MM or whatever it does to my MMs value (I wasn't going to sell it high or low, so I don't care about the price): the disappointment would be because I want there to be so many more modern visions of pinball machines out there that MM would seem dated and boring compared to what $8k can buy otherwise in 2013 (or 2014).

But those who've really got the fever and wanted an MM, MORE POWER TO YA! Enjoy it! The more, the merrier!

You can't just apply a gross inflation calculator at the monetary value though. Materials and labour don't meter into the equation properly.

When you buy a pinball machine as an investment, you're doing it wrong. Pins in the home are expensive toys. Nothing more, nothing less. I have zero sympathy for anyone whose game may have lost value.

Pinball was a strictly a social activity in this country for more than 70 years. If people feel they're no longer in an elite club, that's a good thing in my book. Pinball is a very large club.

And you can just wait to get yours as soon as they start making the standards. No point in being pushed to the back of the line by preordering and LE. Hey, it's possible. Look at the JJP model for delivering pins.

I'm waiting for the unlimited standard for $6K

I can't help but think what will happen to the newcomers to this hobby who want to get one of these MM LEs and they are forced to pay an outrageous price from someone who was lucky enough to get one early. I see history repeating itself here.

Being a MM owner, I too bought the pin before the prices went high. I didn't know anything about the hobby back then, I just thought the pin looked cool with the exploding castle. Afterwards, I realized what a gem I had. But, I got tired of other pinheads saying " I would never own that pin", or " It's not that fun for the price", or "You just got that pin hoping to charge an outrageous price later to an unsuspecting newbie to the hobby". One pinsider even called present MM owners "cry babies" and "selfish" over this announcement and was laughing over these owners paying such a high price for these MMs before this announcement. I only found it funny when I saw all of these naysayers knocking each other down now to get these remakes that they were bashing just 24 hours before.

I love my MM and didn't sell it for a high price when I had the chance because I just LOVE this pin. I just couldn't part with it. I'm glad these pin players are finally getting the chance to own and play one, regardless of an original or remake. So, happy flipping fellow pinheads! However, it does piss me off after I learned of a possible Walking Dead pin from Stern after I placed my pre-order for ST LE. Damn you Stern, take my money!!!

Hold your breath and good luck with that.

Steve

Someone is making The Crying Game pin? This is getting crazy.

Good luck with that. They are already on PPS website for presale at $8k

I just like doing it.

Here is the one from the US Bureau of Labor I like to use:

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

And he swings and misses! Steerike THREE!

Jesus.

And so it continues.

Yep. Pretty pathetic.

Funny that you got a bunch of thumbs down for your post too.

troll tone'

who cares

Lois Einhorn is a mannnnnnnnnnnnnn

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I am still pretty new to the hobby but I understand the anger of the current owners if there value goes down but thats a hobby. Markets chang prices go up and prices go down the only thing I know is more pinball machines being made is a good thing no matter what they are. I love this hobby but what makes even better is having others to share it with aka other pin owners. More pins = More pin owners and thats a good thing.

if your more concerned about the value of your pins over how much you enjoy playing them............YOUR DOING IT WRONG!

Lots of speculation from the Stern fanboys who just preordered a knock-off.

HEP personally owns at least six original MMs. He's not selling!

1. They will continue to do high end restoration with MM and other titles.

2. They will also end up doing high end restoration for the knock-offs.

MM will *always* be a high dollar game to own.

It's great that there will always be plenty that we can both agree and disagree about, Rob.

I've gotten a lot of unfair (IMO) flak for being upset. Think about it like this... you buy ocean front property, and you pay a premium for it... You enjoy living on the ocean, and you surf regularily... Then one day, some guy gets the zoning changed and gets a building permit to build in front of your place. Well that's how it feels for me, and probably a few others.

I'm glad the hobby is getting more popular, and this move will pretty much create a ceiling for pinball machine prices. Any game that becomes worth more than 10k can be made worth less overnight. A lot of people with collections who built them up over time will lose money. Many of us are not rich folk... we're just pinheads who enjoy the hobby and worked hard to pay for high end machines. For me I feel that years of hard work earning money to purchase, then the hard work of restoring and maintaining the games have partially gone to waste.

Of course the fact that there will now be 3 pinball manufacturers instead of 1... well we know where that can go and that's a totally different subject.

Nope. They've already been going. The updated cpu board is done, artwork ready for parts orders, etc. They just announced it but it's been an ongoing project for a while. With the established manufacturer, I bet they ship by end of Q2 2014.

Original MM was built at 3401 N. California Avenue in Chicago. Right behind where Ballykid is standing. Yes, the cabinets and playfields were made at the Lenc-Smith plant in Cicero but back then Chicago Gaming did not exist.

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IPB only made something like 170 of the BBB reissue games. There are fewer than 200 BBB in existence around the world. This is very different than MM where there were something like 4k machines made originally and now there will be another 1000-2000 games aged to the mix. No one will be giving these away free, but I don't see the prices racing higher.

MCCLAD.......You are right on target. There are people with common sense and there are foolish people who just follow trends.

Good grief dude. Are you having an anxiety attack over this?? Every thread. Most of us don't want people to lose money. That sucks. Most of us will always cherish a high end original. The restorers work will always be a valuable game as they are amazing. Its like asking a remake company to hand build you one.
For Stern fanboys (where I fall in) we like newer technology and new in general. So I am a new customer to this unique solution and can buy a classic that actually new. No hate, no jealousy and certainly hoping my friends beautiful games hold their value mainly so they are appreciated as they should be.