(Topic ID: 190477)

The Cocktail Club

By Jappie

6 years ago


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#321 4 years ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

Im in the club now with a mouse house Eros One. Gonna need to fumigate it but I might be crazy enough to do a high end restore on it. Maybe. I’ve got no real love for the theme or artwork but I do like the idea of a cocktail pin in the collection. Anyone got a lead on nos or repro parts? Got burnt pop caps and yellowed plastics[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I rebuilt the displays with new seven segment displays and low power IC's. The original displays are power hogs and would get really warm. Worked out great and they took hardly any power after that and was easier on the 5V supply.

As long as the custom 40-pin IC's are ok then you can revive that machine. I've fixed a few of those boards when I had an EROS one.

It is a fun little machine.

#324 4 years ago
Quoted from BigWilly_Arcade:

I have a Spectra IV I am considering parting out. Anyone looking for any parts. As usual to processor board and connectors are corroded. One pop bumper coil is melted. PM if interested.

Pm sent

1 week later
#327 4 years ago

Make sure you take a good look at the MPU board to see if it still has the original battery on it. Those can leak. I had to repair mine then I installed an NVRAM module so no more battery.

#329 4 years ago

Adding NVRAM was easy if you're good with soldering. Just remove the 5101 ram chip, put in a socket, and plug in the module.

#331 4 years ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

I'm not... I'm still learning... But, I'm keen to figure it out... Good way to learn. Hopefully they're are some how to videos online about that... I'm not ready to do that just yet... But, I'll look into it in the meantime. No need to rush into anything.
I did crack open my cab today... And I do think I need to look into leveling it. Not certain how these things do level. But, again I got the manual.
I noticed the center post rubber broke off. Only was able to find half of it in the pin. Will try to find the other half when I replace the rubbers and wax it.
The other posts are similarly dried out and basically disintegrating. Again... Not a surprise or a big deal. I got a full rubber set coming in the mail from marco.
Never replaced the rubbers before. Will be interesting to do so. Just have to figure out how to get those caps off the plastics so I can get to replace the bands. Shouldn't be too hard.

Everyone has to learn sometime. There are plenty of people here that will help you. If you decide you don't want to tackle that there are people that can do the board work if you mail out the board. You've got options.n Don't rush it and have fun.

#335 4 years ago

For those of you with a Night Moves pinball what ground mods did you perform on your machine? It looks like there are several System 80b mods that apply.

I've got my game running and was completely solid for a couple weeks? Recently it would lock up at times when there was a lot going on. Other than rebuilding the MPU, repinning some MPU connectors, and fixing an opto issue I haven't done anything else to it yet.

#336 4 years ago

I just ordered a new 10000uf 25v capacitor for the Night Moves and am going to replace the 500 trimmer with a new 500 ohm 1w precion trimmer. That should be a much better part than the original.

After that will revisit the ground mods

1 month later
#353 4 years ago

The night moves may seem simple at first but it really grows on you.

2 weeks later
#372 4 years ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

I figured it was a battery of some kind... Just know nothing about it or how to remove it.
So... The only way to remove it is to desolder it off the board...
Fun... Not the easiest place to get to...
So my question now is... Can I disconnect all the wires to the board and then easily take the board off, so that I can solder it?
And when I do so... I guess I should put a Nvram on it instead correct?

It is best to pull out that whole board to work on it. If you have access to good soldering and Desoldering equipment It is easy to remove that battery. I removed it on mine and also removed the 5101 ram chip, installed a socket, and plugged in an nvram module. I think I have some pictures

#374 4 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

That’s my one big complaint. Working on anything inside the cocktail pins just sucks. When I did the grounding mod my back was killing me.
Doesn’t the Sys80B require extra steps to use NVRAM?

Removing the MPU board wasn’t so bad but Repinning the connectors that had some corrosion and replacing the main cap in the base was awful on my back too.

#377 4 years ago
Quoted from Jappie:

My opinion: Remove it, asap. Better safe than sorry. It's really not a big endeavour. You could have come a long way instead of writing up that last post.

And have NVRAM installed so you never have to worry about batteries again.

#382 4 years ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

I thought i did ask for help on how to remove it. That's why I posted here.

That block battery you can’t easily just cut it off like other batteries. It needs to be unsoldered. It’s ok if you aren’t comfortable with it. Maybe you can find someone local that can help. Or if your machine is going to be down for a bit you could send that board out. Since it is only removing a battery and possibly putting in a socket and NVRAM the turn around should be quick.

#384 4 years ago

I can get you pictures of mine. It wasn’t hard to do. Getting the board out isn’t too bad either. If you don’t have battery damage you’re lucky. I had to neutralize the small amount of battery damage on mine, replace several resistors, and some diodes. The worst part was replacing the damaged pins in the connectors. Those are what game me a sore back.

You can get the 5101 nvram module here:

https://nvram.weebly.com/

1 month later
#394 4 years ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

My newest addition![quoted image]

I totally approve. I picked up a non working Night Moves and after going through the power board, replacing the main capacitor in the base, repining a few connectors, and fixing the MPU (Slight battery damage) it is a solid machine.

It is a surprisingly fun machine and the music grows on you.

1 month later
#410 3 years ago
Quoted from luckycreature:

Yeah i grabbed it to preserve it. If someone contacts me in the future and i can help them i will. The playfield was just too nice to pass up even just being a lighted coffee table.

It isn’t a super complex table so you could probably use an Arduino Mega to control it. If it was like the machine I had I was going to do that and trim Jamma finger boards to plug into the original connectors. It could be done without hacks.

1 week later
#418 3 years ago
Quoted from the96stang:

anyone need any parts off of a night moves?

Possibly. I can look this evening. What spares do you have?

#431 3 years ago

When I sold my Eros 1 the guy picked it up in a Fiat 500. It fit but he couldn’t close the hatch.

#434 3 years ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

Is 1200 an okay deal on a very pretty Night Moves?

I'm not sure about the price but I can say that the Night Movesis a really cool little machine. A lot going on for its size. The music grows on you and it plays really well. I was surprised by it in a good way.

3 months later
#461 3 years ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Which cocktail pins have drop targets?

Star trip has 3 and Eros one had 4. Not sure on the others

3 weeks later
#474 3 years ago
Quoted from FelixTCat:

Is there a part number for the battery on the Night moves board ?. I've seen a couple of posts about getting a remote battery holder and a diode but I would prefer to keep it looking like it came from the factory. If not is there a diagram for how to wire the diode and battery holder ?
Thanks.

NO! Get rid of that battery and don't install one! Those things have ruined more boards over the years and just need to go. Instead just remove it and install an NVRAM module in a socket. I used one of these 5101 modules in mine:

https://nvram.weebly.com/

1 week later
#480 3 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

was thinking about getting my feet wet with a cocktail. from what the guy is telling me the game lights up but doesn't boot. how bad are these boards to work on? how fun is this game and what is it worth?

That is an Allied Leisure machine. I had a nice EROS 1 that was working and sold for less than they are asking for that one. While it could be simple it could be awful. The main issue with those are the odd parts used on the MPU. In particular the custom programmed parts that are unavailable. I've repaired a few of those boards but the custom parts were ok.

So if you get it you'll have to consider the worst case and just look at it as a nice cabinet, playfield for a custom project and use something like an Arduino as a new custom controller.

1 month later
#499 3 years ago

I used to repair the Allied Leisure boards. That was back when I had an EROS ONE cocktail machine to run them in. As long as the custom programmed IC's are intact they can usually be revived. The last ones I fixed were about 3 years ago and they are still running well. I also rebuilt the displays. Mine had bad chips and displays so I stripped those boards, installed 74LS series parts, super bright 7 segment displays, and changed the current limiting resistors to 3K if I remember. They were as bright if not a little brighter than the original displays but barely took any power to run. They were totally cool and a lot less stress on the power supply.

You need to be extremely careful about the power. As I recall the colors were opposite of what you'd expect. If you have reverse polarity or over voltage you can toast the custom chips.

The game I got was a mess, Had to fix the displays, fix the original linear supply, fix the transformer, go through the MPU, clean connectors, then swap a drop target and do a normal shop job. Cool little machine when done.

#503 3 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Ugh. I'm definitely feeling like this project is going to be very frustrating, although I do have a good friend about 60 miles away who collects cocktails. So I've got SOME help and parts available, but as far as actual board repair goes...sounds like there's only one option there. I just wish I had some kind of idea on cost as I sent it off. Really hard to justify putting hundreds (by that I mean $500+, not $200-300) into..a roy clark.. even with the sentiment pushing this project forward.

First, do you know your board is actually bad or has issues? No reason to send it out yet. Does your friend have any Allied Leisure machines? You could try running the board in another game to see if it is working or not. Unless it had a problem with over voltage your customs could still be fine. I'd carefully clean the edge connector. Pink eraser then wipe with rubbing alcohol. If the oxidation is heavy you can lightly use a fiberglass pen before using the pink eraser.

The way it was stored would make me concerned about oxidation on the IC's and the condition of the DIP sockets. You could try to carefully pull then partially out of the socket and reseat to see if it temporarily clears the issue. If that takes care of it then at least you know and can get the sockets replaced later.

Also have you checked for 5V at the large capacitor on the MPU? Also are the LED's lit on the power board? Always check for good power first and then go onto the board if all are good.

If any of the plastic clips that hold the top of the MPU are broken I modeled up a replacement and posted on thingiverse. Worked out well.

#507 3 years ago

You can not always trust the color codes on what is positive and negative on these machines. You should be able to check at the main cap on the MPU. You can confirm by checking continuity on some of the supply lines +5v and ground on the IC's against that cap to confirm your connections are right.

Overall that board looks really clean. May want to keep those pictures up since people with the same game can use them as a reference.

1 week later
#516 3 years ago
Quoted from Puffdanny:

You can beg to differ but you'd be wrong.CC is bolted to the floor NM is long gone.

Actually, I think they are both excellent machines!

#520 3 years ago

A few years ago when I was working on Allied Leisure boards I had to work on a couple that were supposedly fixed. There were issues that hadn't been completely resolved. One of those was with the solenoids. what I found was some burned up resistors and bad electrolytic caps for those solenoids. It would be worth checking those as well as the driving transistors and work all the way back to the 6530's. It's been a while but I'll try to help if I can.

2 weeks later
#538 3 years ago

Check for 5v at the MPU board. Probably should check the connector at the MPU as well. If the battery leaks it can corrode the connector and you’ll get a drop there.

#541 3 years ago

Have you pulled the MPU board to check the edge connectors? On mine I had to clean all of those, fix some battery damage, re-pin the power connector. I also ended up replacing the larger cap in the base of the machine. Is there still an original battery on the board? If so remove it. I've seen some cases where a bad battery on a board was dragging things down. I hate batteries on boards and installed NVRAM on mine.

While having a spare board around for troubleshooting can help you may find you still have the same issues after dropping hundreds on a new board. I'd also check all the grounds on the boards. I haven't done ground mods on mine yet but did ensure they were all making a good connection. At the very least you may want to unplug and reseat each of those ground connection cables that plug in at the back in the base of the machine.

The mechanics of these games are solid. Once you work through the electrical the rest is too.

1 month later
#567 3 years ago

I probably shouldn't have sold my EROS 1 machine. After repairing it I used it as a test jig to repair boards. Was able to fix several other boards. If you search on posts about the EROS 1 you should find a post I made about rebuilding the original LED displays. I had issues with those too. Ended up rebuilding all the displays with low power parts that made a huge difference in the heat generated and current draw on those.

As long as the custom IC's aren't toast the boards shouldn't be hard to repair. If I still had a game to run them in I'd probably still do repairs. Without a game or test fixture it really isn't practical. Maybe I'll find another someday.

#569 3 years ago

I think some of you may have already seen this but if not it will help if you have display problems:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/allied-leisure-led-display-rebuild-eros-one

I'll see if I can find any of the notes I kept about the boards I did fix.

1 month later
#657 3 years ago

Any Game Plan Star Trip owners out there that can help me out? I have a question about the lamps on the top by the displays. The lamp for Ball in Play doesn't seem to light up on my game. The other 5 lamps work. Looking at the schematic it shows there are connections for 5 lamps (not 6).

Is the Ball in Play lamp ever supposed to light?? If it does then anyone know which SCR on the lamp board is supposed to control it? That is the last electronic repair I need to do (unless it isn't used)

I've got the rest of the game running well. One of the digits was out on all displays as well as the credit displays. Found a bad 7416 on the MPU causing that. One drop target wasn't working but that was just because the diode on the switch for it came off on one side. Resoldering that fixed it. Also had minor battery damage. Fixing 4 traces and a new DIP socket fixed that.

#659 3 years ago
Quoted from Mikespinball:

Well finally I am in this club. Been wanting a cocktail pin since I was in high school. Picked this up the other day. Going to need to do some cleaning as you can see from the pictures there were some uninvited guests that made the playfield into their home.
Also I am missing the lower playfield plastic apron if anyone has one to sell, shoot me a post. A owner's manual too.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That's actually one of the best cocktail machines that was made. Plays great and the music is catchy too. You can find the manual and schematics online here:

https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=3507

1 week later
#676 3 years ago
Quoted from Mitoska:

New cocktail owner.. finally! I bought star trip from pinsider robotworkshop (nice guy by the way) , this is my first cocktail. It has a fan in the bottom thay runs non stop, is this a cocktail thing? None of my regular pins have ever had a fan in them..any owners simply remove them? It's not on a board or anything and it's just to loud and annoying. Also has anyone found new replacement top glass for cocktails before?

Hope you're enjoying it! Still think that has a great theme and great playing game.

In regards to the fan I would expect that was more for when on location and left on all the time. That fan probably has a standard bolt pattern but I never really researched it. If you want to replace it then I would suggest searching on " muffin fan 120v quiet low noise " and then verify the bolt pattern from the old fan and the ones listed. Looks like Amazon has some for under $20 that may work. Some are probably quieter than the original fan when new.

2 weeks later
#691 2 years ago
Quoted from Snowyetti:

I’m in star trip is in the building any thoughts on unplugging the fan inside these things or a way to quiet it down is there oil points ect?

There may be a way to oil them or those original fans may just be loud.

You'd have to check and measure the mounting holes but if they are the same as the muffin fans then you have a lot of options. Should have some replacements on Amazon for under $20. Just search for " muffin fan 120V quiet low noise " and it should turn up some options. Have to triple check the mounting though.

1 week later
#700 2 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Is there any way to repin an allied plug? From my understanding the pins themselves have just about completely disappeared from the face of the earth?

Which connectors and what pins? Can you post a picture of the connector you’re trying to repin?

#703 2 years ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

It's one of these green ones that plugs into the mpu. Note the two pink wires that are pulled completely out.
If repinning isn't an option I'll hack one off one of his parts playfields but I'd much rather just repin one.
[quoted image]

You should be able to repin those. If I recall correctly those are the amp "commercial" mate-n-lock connectors. Pins are different size than all the common ones out there. You may be able to get some from here:

https://www.arcadepartsandrepair.com/product-category/connectors-sockets-pins/amp-commercial-mate-n-lok-products-connectors/

1 week later
#706 2 years ago
Quoted from Blackghost4:

I have a friend that needs to transport a Night Moves in a Hatchback and was wondering if the cabinet separated in two or is it glued.
I would someone's help please.

I can take a look at mine this evening but I don't think that you're going to easily separate the top section from the bottom. Mine has an extension that could come off but other than that you should keep it intact. If you were able to get it apart there are a lot of wires you'd need to disconnect.

On a side note I used to have an EROS 1 years ago. When I sold it I asked when he wanted to come back for it. He said he wanted to take it on the spot. We loaded it in the back of a Fiat 500 (the smaller one) and it just fit with the hatch open....

3 months later
#774 2 years ago
Quoted from twitami:

There were no extra bases for Night Moves and CC as far as I know. Only Allied Leisure had the extendable legs, and that was only on certain games (mostly the later ones). Coffee-Mat and Game Plan (and early Allied) you could buy a height extender for (basically a matching wood (or metal in the case of Coffee-Mat)).

I have an extended base on my Night Moves and I like having the machine up higher. I'm not sure if it was an original option but if not it was really well done and matches well. AT one point I had considered selling the game but ended up selling some others instead and plan on keeping it. Everyone that plays Night Moves loves it.

4 weeks later
#788 2 years ago
Quoted from stefanmader:

So i got a Gameplan Startrip. But unfortunately it is not working. It does get power and lights, but the game doesnt start. No attractmode, only weird things on the display, i guess because of the cap instead of an battery. The red led on the board does nothing.
I'm not an expert with electronix.. What i did already is cleaning and checking the fuses.
And look for obvious things.
I found that there was probably a battery leakage. It looks like it was being fixed, there is now a cap instead of a battery when im not mistaken. In the picture there is a ram chip missing. I replaced that.
But nothing changed.
Does someone have a tip for me?
Maybe i will just try reconnecting every cable. Maybe there are some bad connection because of corrosion?![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That MPU doesn't look too bad and would clean up. All those green ceramic disc caps should be replaced. Also the ROM chips have heavy oxidation and should be carefully cleaned. Troubleshoot from there.

I just repaired a couple GamePlan MPU's and am working on a third now.

#790 2 years ago
Quoted from stefanmader:

Thank you for the fast answer. I think i will pull out the board and try cleaning everything i find like you suggested. Havent seen the crusty chip thanks, didn't even knew what to look for.
I do think its not a battery. Definitly no heatshrink. I ll take a better picture. But a cap would be ok right? It just not store credits and highscores i think.

Thank you very much, how can i clean the chip sockets? Is contact spray a good idea to use for that?

The DIP sockets can't really be cleaned. They may be ok as it looks like the black oxidation is mainly on the chips. If the sockets are bad they would need to be replaced. Those have to be done carefully otherwise pads can fall off and the traces on the board can be damaged causing more repair work. One of the boards I just fixed had a few extra hours due to prior work.

For the DIP chips I use a scotch bright pad from the top of the pin to the bottom. Again, you need to be careful here since sometimes the leads get weak and can break. That causes more work.

Some good references to Gameplan repairs:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gameplan_Repair

http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/

Star Trip is a cool machine. I had one for a while but had to sell it due to lack of space,

2 months later
#807 2 years ago
Quoted from RobW:

I'm in the club....just picked up a nice Eros One. Needs some board work but looks real nice. I think the main cap on the mpu is bad.
I cant measure 5 volts at the Cap, looks like its bad. Im getting continuity at the cap. Help!
[quoted image][quoted image]

In that picture there isn't a cap to measure 5V from. You would measure 5V across the large cap on the MPU board when it is plugged in. There should be a small linear 5V power supply off to the left near the bottom if I remember correctly. You could measure 5V there.

If you are measuring the cap on the fuse board in the back of the cabinet that is not the place to check.

One word of caution if you try swapping power supplies. Do not just rely on the color codes to determine polarity. I bought one of these years ago as a non working project from someone. They had tried connecting a 5V switching supply but they went by the wire color and connected it backwards. That can cook the custom IC's on the MPU.

#810 2 years ago
Quoted from RobW:

Sorry, should have specified. Ive measured a good 5 volts at the power supply, I was talking about the mpu and Capacitor C19 . It looks to be bad if Im getting continuity from positive to negitive Right?[quoted image]

How are you testing the capacitor? Are you using the capacitance function of your meter? Did you unsolder one lead of the capacitor to isolate it for testing? If not other things in the circuit can and will throw off your readings. That cap is there to filter and smooth out the 5v at the MPU. Since it should already be filtered at the power supply the game should still boot even if the cap on the MPU is dried up and not filtering as good as it should since the power supply does some filtering too.

At some point you probably will want to replace it. Check with Great Plains Electronics.

1 week later
#814 2 years ago

Have any of you worked on a Spectra IV machine? Just starting out with a physically nice example. Besides a normal shop job there is a blown fuse, two connectors were off the boards, and I do see some battery damage. I wasn't able to get a good look at the boards but the battery damage doesn't look as bad as some of the boards I've had to repair.

The machine is really cool and unique even among the cocktail machines. Just downloaded the manual and am going through it. One part that isn't obvious is how to get the boards out of the card cage. Going to take a better look at that tomorrow and may just pull out the whole playfield with the cards to bring it down into the shop. Would like to get a good look at the boards and see how bad the battery damage is. From what I've read there aren't too many working examples of this machine.

SpectraBoards (resized).jpgSpectraBoards (resized).jpgSpectraIV (resized).jpgSpectraIV (resized).jpgSpectraPlayfield (resized).jpgSpectraPlayfield (resized).jpg
#817 2 years ago
Quoted from semicolin:

Even if they've leaked, don't give up! *Everything* can be repaired by somebody out there.

That would be me! My specialty is with the electronics. I just did a batch of Gameplan MPU boards. Only one didn’t have battery damage. The last one needed all new sockets and a bunch of traces rebuilt and replaced along with connectors. I really hate dealing with battery damage but will save these boards. I’m expecting that I’ll need to recondition at least a couple of the edge connectors and repin their connectors like I did for a Gottlieb system 1 Buck Rogers of the same vintage I got running. From what I’ve read there aren’t many working examples of this game left. Would like to make this one more working example.

#818 2 years ago
Quoted from semicolin:

Even if they've leaked, don't give up! *Everything* can be repaired by somebody out there.

I’m feeling really good about my chances on making this game run. While there is battery damage there is significantly less than I expected. After removing the batteries I’ll need to pull off the 74ls00, remove the ROMs and CPU, remove the 4 large DIP sockets, then treat and clean the board. Fix any traces that have opened up then all new DIP sockets. Will check to ensure the tantalum caps aren’t shorted and everything else looks ok.

B5E47FC3-69FF-4E1F-98F9-180757C8F1F0 (resized).jpegB5E47FC3-69FF-4E1F-98F9-180757C8F1F0 (resized).jpegBE1C7D9B-28A3-4AB2-88BE-DF3F61922DDE (resized).jpegBE1C7D9B-28A3-4AB2-88BE-DF3F61922DDE (resized).jpegEB236B8B-6726-4B8B-ADD6-8DC0D9B38829 (resized).jpegEB236B8B-6726-4B8B-ADD6-8DC0D9B38829 (resized).jpeg
#824 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Could you fix mine? There was a company in PA that told me they fixed them, and a dealer had them fix 4 other Spectra IV’s. When I met them at a show they said they no longer fix these boards. It’s a bummer. My game has some sound and displays. It’s mostly alive, but needs a bit of work that at this time I’m not confident in my ability to execute.

Maybe. I want to get this one running first so I have a working example to go off of. I've repaired plenty of other boards and do repairs all the time. Early Bally/Stern, Williams System 3 through WPC, Gottlieb System 1 and 80's, Gameplan, Data East, Sega, and others. I do a few Bally home boards and used to do Allied Leisure when I had an EROS I. At the moment I have a few things in the queue to clear out of the way before any new work as I prefer to take on boards when I know I can get right to them.

Can you PM some pictures of the boards you have to help see the condition?

Robert

#826 2 years ago
Quoted from Mikespinball:

On a different note, would you do any board repairs for Zaccaria pinball machines?

I've never had one of those machines so unfortunately I'm not familiar with those. If I ever end up getting one and have a machine that I can use as a test fixture then I may but for the moment I'm just focusing on boards I know well and have test fixtures or games I can run them in for final testing.

#828 2 years ago
Quoted from RobW:

Ok, so here we are...
Ive done some board work and replaced a bad -5v. pin in the edge connector that seemed to fix a bunch of start up problems.
Problems now:
-Still no #1Led but the game starts and plays fine for a while it seems, until I hit a certain switch and then nothing until I hit another switch and it plays fine again.
-In test mode three, player one display shows switch #60 is closed left pop bumper. Even with the switch wires disconnected
-Cant get the slings to fire. I changed the Transistors and caps for these (tip3055, mps6531)and they still wont fire even in test mode, so I thought it was a bad ic cause I got a bad reading on IC15 this was replaced before so I thought Id start there. A lot of old board work...I put in a socket and new 7404...nothing still.
Any help appreciated
Rob
[quoted image]

Have you checked the resistors and electrolytic cap for the problem solenoids too? Years ago I repaired a board that was supposedly repaired prior and I found a burned resistor and severely bulging electrolytic cap for one of the solenoid transistors that had been replaced.

If neither sling is firing can you measure the resistance of the coils. Can you check continuity from those coils to the connector and ultimately to the transistors that drive them?

If all that checks out and you have voltage at the coils then it would be time to break out the logic probe. In test when those should fire you should be able to follow on the logic side and see it toggle between high and low as it tries to fire. If you don’t get anything you may have an open on the board. Or you’ll find another IC with a stuck or dead output. Once you get used to working with a logic probe it is really useful to diagnose issues quickly. They are fairly cheap too.

#829 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Could you fix mine? There was a company in PA that told me they fixed them, and a dealer had them fix 4 other Spectra IV’s. When I met them at a show they said they no longer fix these boards. It’s a bummer. My game has some sound and displays. It’s mostly alive, but needs a bit of work that at this time I’m not confident in my ability to execute.

If you get a chance can you post pictures of your MPU to see how bad the battery damage is?

#830 2 years ago

Under the machine listing for the Spectra IV I added a couple pictures. One of the lamp driver and another for the solenoid driver/sound card. There are plenty of pictures of the MPU boards but thought it would help to have pictures of those boards too. Will try to add others as I work on my game.

#834 2 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I’m feeling really good about my chances on making this game run. While there is battery damage there is significantly less than I expected. After removing the batteries I’ll need to pull off the 74ls00, remove the ROMs and CPU, remove the 4 large DIP sockets, then treat and clean the board. Fix any traces that have opened up then all new DIP sockets. Will check to ensure the tantalum caps aren’t shorted and everything else looks ok.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Found a bad 1n4003 diode on the board too. Tried running it this morning but no luck. Just found that both 5101 RAM chips were bad and the 6532 RIOT had two bad pins. Put in sockets and new chips for all of those. Also added a 4F memory capacitor. Going to try running it again and will see if I get better luck tomorrow.

33C3B666-015B-405E-BD86-CD904F1F98CA (resized).jpeg33C3B666-015B-405E-BD86-CD904F1F98CA (resized).jpeg
#835 2 years ago

If anyone has the schematic for the small daughter board for the Spectra IV MPU that would really help. Also some good reference photos of the small board. One of the caps was replaced on mine and I'm not sure if the right replacement was installed.

At the moment the board is stuck in RESET. Everything is pointing towards that board. I read that someone just removed it and installed a 4093 in place and that worked. I may end up trying that.

#836 2 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If anyone has the schematic for the small daughter board for the Spectra IV MPU that would really help. Also some good reference photos of the small board. One of the caps was replaced on mine and I'm not sure if the right replacement was installed.
At the moment the board is stuck in RESET. Everything is pointing towards that board. I read that someone just removed it and installed a 4093 in place and that worked. I may end up trying that.

I did install a 4093 in place of that reset daughter board and now am getting a reset pulse at the CPU that I expect. It seems that the CPU isn’t running and there isn’t activity on the address or data lines. While the PROM chips were all ok I think whatever took out both 5101 RAM chips and the 6532 RIOT may have damaged the CPU as well. Ordered a couple spares and will resume testing once they arrive unless I happen to find a 6503 in my parts stash.

2 weeks later
#843 2 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I did install a 4093 in place of that reset daughter board and now am getting a reset pulse at the CPU that I expect. It seems that the CPU isn’t running and there isn’t activity on the address or data lines. While the PROM chips were all ok I think whatever took out both 5101 RAM chips and the 6532 RIOT may have damaged the CPU as well. Ordered a couple spares and will resume testing once they arrive unless I happen to find a 6503 in my parts stash.

Working on this SPECTRA IV MPU has been an interesting project. I used the sound card in my Buck Rogers to confirm that the 6503 CPU chip was ok. Finally I pulled out the Fluke 9010A with a 6502 pod to help. I bought an adapter for the 6504 and then made some mods to that and another adapter to plug into the 6503 socket. I can access the RIOT chip and all it's RAM. But the RAM and ROM on the main board are not responding. That explains why it isn't booting or running. Still more work to do but at least I know part of the board works and what area to focus on. Maybe missed an open trace from the battery damage.

#844 2 years ago

Another Spectra IV lives! Got my MPU running last night and was even able to play a quick game. I ended up making up a custom test adapter to help with MPU testing.

Still a lot to do. Many switches didn’t want to register at first and all of those need a good cleaning. Playfield has to be cleaned and waxed then the fresh rubber rings and new balls. The upper large plastic needs to be straightened as well.

I went through the coin door last night and that is ok. There seems to be an open connection for the switches on it though. If I jumped to connector for them at the MPU they worked and that was how I was able to start a game. Going to pull the whole tub out to lubricate the bearing and clean all the contacts and slip rings to see if that fixes the connection issues. This is really an odd machine.

#848 2 years ago
Quoted from Stretch7:

Wonder if it should include Rotation as these are a 2 of their own. Thoughts?

The Spectra IV should get it's own club. Even though both rotate they are nothing alike inside and each will have their own issues. I'm not sure if it even uses the same MPU.

I talked to one of the editors on pinwiki.com and was able to get the Spectra IV split out since it is so different. Not just from the rotation but from other pins in general They did a few weird things on Spectra.

Some like the Allied Leisure and Gameplan cocktail games could each have their own separate clubs since the boards were used across multiple machines.

#854 2 years ago
Quoted from valentin27:

All you need to know to repair and get repaired your Spectra IV:
https://www.flipprojets.fr/SpectraIV_EN.php

Definitely a great resource and some important pieces of the puzzle like a picture of the small reset card to clear the settings. It was helpful while I was repairing an MPU for these. Unfortunately there is a lot more needed to know about the Spectra that you have to find on other sites like:

http://www.rustykey.com/projects/spectra/default.html

The Rusty keys site had some other important clues like the memory/IO map and code disassembly.

2 weeks later
#861 2 years ago

I'm building out the Spectra IV page on pinwiki.com so if you have any suggestions or notes to add please let me know. There are a lot off odd quirks with that game that need to be documented.

#863 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

As you know the game cannot be started without the coin door, and most of them are conveniently missing.
A schematic for that coin door would be awesome

I wasn’t aware that many games were missing that door. The schematic for the coin door is in the manual that is posted in ipdb.org for the machine. It wouldn’t be too hard to make something to replace it.

#865 2 years ago

The manual helps a lot but there is still a lot of things that aren't covered. In particular the reset key and anything about the daughter board on later MPU's.

2 months later
#929 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Anyone know how to diagnose a display issue like this?
[quoted image]

What game is it? If a Gameplan have you reset all the values in the battery backed RAM?

#932 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Sorry, star shooter. allied leisure. It does this even in display test mode

Those are probably similar to the displays I had in the EROS 1. Some were out on the game. Ended up rebuilding them all and used low power parts. Ran cooler with a lot less power. It was documented on this old thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/allied-leisure-led-display-rebuild-eros-one#post-3610878

#935 1 year ago

Yes. And if anyone needs one I have some FULL kits available. If you can solder and follow the instructions you can build yourself a working GamePlan MPU board that works in any of the games....

#937 1 year ago

If any of you have an Allied Lesuire cocktail game with bad displays I may be able to help. Many years ago I rebuilt displays for an Eros one with all low power parts and new 7 segment displays.

I made sure to keep all the old parts that were good. I have some matching 7-segment displays and some regular LEDs that should be an exact match if any are bad on your game. Same look and same intensity. Otherwise you’ll probably do full rebuilds like I did.

#939 1 year ago
Quoted from Mitoska:

Picked up my 3rd cocktail, a nice night moves. Shopping with pink - blue titans and led's
[quoted image]

That's a really good machine. Everyone that plays it loves it. I don't think I could ever part with the one I have.

1 month later
#946 1 year ago

Is your opto board getting power? Are the opto's ok? My machine had issues with the opto board when I got it. I remember repairing that on my game.

#948 1 year ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Pin 1 on AJ1 at the opto interface board is 6 volts, but I’m using a Great Lakes Modular power supply and I don’t see a way to adjust the output.

I'm running the original power board on mine. I rebuild the original supply and use a multiturn precision trim pot. The original trim pot and cracked/cold solder joints are about the only things I've seen go wrong with original power boards.

Are you saying that you're reading 6V where it should be 5V? If so that isn't right.

#950 1 year ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Am I reading this correctly as for pin 1 being where I should see/test for 5 volts?
[quoted image]
The original power board I have has had the trim pot removed, but nothing has replaced it to adjust it. I'm using the Great Lakes Modular board in its place, though that board also has no adjustment pot. I put the old power supply board in and still have similar voltage reading, but again, the adjustment pot was removed for some reason by a previous owner.

You should be getting 5V between pins 1 and 3 of AP1 on that optical board. If not that is an issue.

If your original power board lacks the pot then someone may have measures the values and soldered in resistors in place of it on the back. I'll put in a precision multiturn version that works well.

3 months later
#987 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Helping a buddy out, I brought 7 (of the 8 he didn't bring with him when he moved) cocktail pins home to refurb/clean/sell (at least I think that's his plan):
Star Trip x1 (had to leave the parts machine, ran out of room)
Foxy Lady x2
Take Five
Circa 1933
Night Moves
Spectra IV
Guess my winter is pretty well spoken for...oof.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That Spectra IV can be quite a challenge to get going. Not many working examples around. Definitely check for Battery corrosion as that has taken a toll on most.

#992 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I'll probably pick it up at some point when I'm a bit further along with these. He didn't sell the house, this just helped him clear some stuff out. Right into my shop.. lol
I'm crossing my fingers HARD that this spectra still works and the battery has not leaked. No idea what it's worth in working condition but I know in non-working condition it's not much!

Honestly I have only heard of less than a dozen that still work (mine is one of those). I would expect that a clean working example is worth a decent amount. It is just so hard to get one.

Many people that I have talked to have two or three but none work. They can be a challenge even with the battery corrosion is light. I had to design an adapter for my Fluke 9010A in order to really see what was going on.

I really, really dislike working on boards with battery corrosion. If the damage is light it is definitely work repairing.

#994 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

No signs of life when plugged in. I haven't done any debugging yet but it doesn't look like anything has exploded, at first glance. I'll go dig some more later. I still have two more cocktails to unload from the trailer.
Night Moves is having issues booting and with controlled lamps working properly, too. Not sure what the deal with that one is, as I've worked on it before and Chris Hibler refurbed all the boards. Some digging to do there also...

I have a Night moves too. Great game! If you find that any of the switch matrix IC's are blow I have an update adapter board to add clamping diodes.

If it is dead I would start with the 5V power board.

#997 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Okay so I'm dumb re: spectra. But I'm super confused. I didn't realize there were two toggle switches (I was flipping the one in the back). Toggling the front one, it boots. But it's in the middle of a game somehow and I've advanced all the way to ball 12 or something???? Can't seem to get it to end the game no matter what.
Night moves is booting and playing again but controlled lamp problems persist. Idk.
[quoted image][quoted image]

There are two switches on the bottom of the game. One is on/off and the other is high or low coil voltage. I guess the idea behind lower coil voltage was lower scores and more money earned for more games....

There are also switches inside. Test, play setup and there is a push button. You'll want to set the game to three ball and check/adjust all the settings. If you can't adjust then you need to unplug a connector and plug in a special reset board to clean all the settings. I had to make one for mine and I was going to get a batch of those reset boards made.

Also the SPECA IV will do odd things if there ar stuck switches other than the ball trough. Check all the switches.

I started a Wiki page a while ago and can always add more:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Valley_Spectra_IV

#1016 1 year ago
Quoted from fireball2:

Yeah they do! Actually, ALI's drop mechs are pretty robust. I have a Boogie, and they're pretty groovy. I have a couple spares, too.

Would be nice for a good replacement source. I have a Thunderbolt which has 4 of them. It is good for now but concerned if one breaks.

#1022 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

The Spectra IV won't respond to any button pushes on or inside the coin door. I'm not sure if that means it needs "cleared out" or what. I've not gone through and manually examined every switch yet, though, so I guess that's next.
[quoted image]

This is where the Spectra IV is weird. It may have some odd random data in the battery backed RAM. As a result you can not clear it or reset it with the control panel. That panel to adjust settings only works to alter them assuming valid data is already there.

If the RAM is corrupt, etc then you need to clear it out. In order to do that you need to power off, lift the playfield, prop it open, unplug a cable from the driver board, the plug a special small circuit board in the socket you pulled off. Then power up the game then wait a minute and turn it off. remove the small card, plug the cable back in, then lower the playfield. From there you should be able to use the side panel to set the options.

#1025 1 year ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Dumb question but could desoldering the battery not dump any straggler data?

That is an exellent question. While removing the battery will clear the contents of RAM (or unplugging the chips) there is no guarantee what is going to be in that RAM when first powered up. Many systems would typically have random garbage in RAM when first powered until it is initialized by the system.

The Spectra IV doesn't handle this aspect well and expects that some sort of valid data will be in RAM as a starting point.

The way that is cleared is by using a special small plug in circuit board. I made one for mine. I was going to layout a board and make more since others probably need one too.

That is one the reasons these can be frustrating to get running.

Another oddity is that in order to power up on the bench it needs to detect AC power. If not then the RAM section can't be accessed. I ran across this when bench testing mine. I ended up making a custom MPU adapter so I could use a 6502 POD with a Fluke 9010a unit to test RAM and check that the ROM's could be read. That is when I found out about the blocking of RAM without detecting AC.

Many of these have a small daughter board for that AC detection section. THe board can run without it if you remove a jumper and install a diode like the schematic shows. But I think that little circuit board probably is needed to help prevent that RAM from corruption. It is off on mine but I plan on re-installing it.

It is an interesting machine and runs well after getting it going but when there is corrosion to deal with and factor in the details above this is not a game that is easy for most people to get running if it wasn't when they acquired it.

8 months later
#1123 9 months ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Picking up a Night Moves hopefully at the end of the week. The game was playing fine with a Swemmer board. Top was opened to tweak a switch, something got bumped and display went dark. Board was sent out to Swemmer boards (in the meantime, Mr. Swemmer died). Original System 80B board was installed due to Swemmer board dilemma. Everything playing good with original board, but displays are still dark. What is the best troubleshooting direction once I pick up the game? This will be my first cocktail pin.

What? Mr Swemmer passed away? When did that happen? I had talked to him through Facebook in the past and have repaired his boards. That is awful news if true.

#1134 8 months ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Night Moves is officially in the house. The game is clean but has some gremlins. The game has the original MPU installed and does not play. You can turn the game on, GI lights and inserts work, as well as the music. You can credit a game, outhole does not kick out ball into shooter lane. No switches activate, no flippers, no slingshots, pops, etc. If you roll a ball around, the two saucers will work and kick the ball out. The display is still dark. Please see earlier post why the Swemmer board is not in the game. Prior to my purchase, with the Swemmer board installed, game and displays worked 100%. The only troubleshooting I have done so far is to pull every fuse in the game and check with my meter, and disconnect and reconnect the display connectors. This is the first Gottlieb based game I have had to work on so not the normal for me, Williams, Bally, etc. Anyone have a good direction to proceed for troubleshooting? Thank you.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

From the picture one of the EPROM chips is uncovered. That is never good. I would at least pull and verify those and if ok at least get that window covered. I’d probably burn a fresh set. Someone installed NVRAM so I would double check the prior work. Since that small reset board is disconnected may want to check to see if the update was done on the back of the board to add a resistor. That update is documented on pinwiki.com in the Gottlieb system 80 section.

After I rebuilt the MPU for mine it didn’t start a game. It also had opto issues in the trough and had to fix the opto board. Since then it has been running great!

#1139 8 months ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Plugged the MPU back in and nothing different. My controlled inserts are working again. I don't have a 3K resistor to install since the reset board is disconnected. I don't know how to verify the EPROMS.

In order to verify the EPROM chips you need access to an EPROM programmer. That will let you read the ROM chips and compare the image with a known good one. The ROM;s for this should be posted on IPDB.org

Maybe someone in your area has one and can check the chips for you.

#1142 8 months ago
Quoted from natgreystar:

Ok I need some help with my Eros One, my first cocktail and I'm not sure how to easily determine if it's a problem with the MPU or the power. The problem is definitely something to do with the re-set circuit. It was fully working then after moving it, it freezes when a credit is added. LED1 has never lit up. I've looked through a lot of posts and haven't found this case discussed. Fuse 2 was blown when I first got it, replaced that and it was up and running so not sure what could have happened between first test and now. I hear these boards break if you look at them.
On power up there is no startup reset test performed like the manual says it should, it just goes right to game over flashing and everything looks normal but it's not. On credit add the game locks with 0 scores, 1 credit, and ball 3 lit. If I put in 1 credit, wait one second then a second can't be added. Score displays don't go out they just freeze at 0s. All test modes worked for lamps, score, and solenoids. All fuses are good and the fuse lamps lit. 5V comes off the power and into C-19. I replaced C-19 cap but that wasn't it.
Any idea if there's a way to narrow down if it's a chip issue? I don't have a chip tester. Should I go through the schematic and test any specific area that is known to fail for reset?

First, measure your 5V at the large capacitor at the bottom of the MPU. Is it a clean 5V or low?

2 months later
#1180 6 months ago

I should probably list my clean working Valley SPECTRA IV. It is the only other cocktail that I am aware of with a rotating playfield.

3 weeks later
#1193 6 months ago
Quoted from Dan_Halen:

Hi All!
I'm heading out soon to work on my first cocktail game and I'm super excited! It's a Night Moves machine that hasn't been touched in 25 years. I'm anticipating a leaking battery, but what I'm having trouble pinpointing is where to get a proper MPU replacement if needed. The RD ones don't have Night Moves listed as a compatible game, and the Swemmer Electronics page doesn't list any games at all.
I'd love to get this working for them, just trying to get a leg up and really just learn more about this game overall. I've always loved cocktails and am super stoked to crack one open.
Thank you!

The Rottendog replacement MPU only supports Gottlieb System 80 and 80A games. No 80B games are supported. The Swemmer replacement MPU is a nice board but Fred Swemmer passed away and no one knows the state of those boards or if any more will be available in the future.

So for the 80B your best option is to have your original rebuilt or if it is too far gone find a rebuildable 80B MPU and get that rebuilt. I wouldn't worry about it until you open it up.

I got relatively lucky on my night moves as the battery damage wasn't bad and the board clean up well. I had to repin the power connector though. I put NVRAM on mine but have switched to a large 4F memory capacitor on the other System 80B boards I've rebuilt.

I'd also recommend having the 500ohm potentiometer replaced on the 5V power supply with a sealed mutiturn precision version. I've been putting those on all my System 80 and 80B games.

Night Moves is an excellent machine and packs a lot in a smaller area. Everyone that plays it loves it.

#1195 6 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Backup option, use a LISY80

Yes! I should have mentioned that. Those are great boards and I've used one in Monte Carlo and Genesis while I rebuilt the original boards for those. Just never tried it in Night Moves but it should work well.

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