(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

By Nilroc

4 years ago

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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by dts
  • Topic is favorited by 187 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (2 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (1 year ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#56 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

ok playing around with photoshop and a game with my topper. rainy sunday in san diego. If you will it, it is no dream!
IMG_20150301_124920 copy.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Hmmm ... that's ...uh ... quite the topper.

How about photoshopping a TBL game with the upcoming Laseriffic topper (please)? You know ... just for comparison sake!

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Any truth to this?


I'm in on this too. That's right - pre-ordering accessories for my pre-ordered game - yeah baby!

Quoted from highdef:

I like the Folgers topper. It's clean, relevant, and didn't cost you $165.

Yep - there's that to be said for it.

1 month later
#108 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

I have to say that one of the cool features is the attention to detail on the bowling alley where the light coming from the right side appears to be coming in from outside through a window. Tres cool!

I like the colored lighting in the bowling alley (I'm assuming that the colors will vary with the gameplay), but I'm somehow not seeing the light coming in from the side. Am I missing something in the photo?

Quoted from sd_tom:

Thanks for the pic. I'm more excited about the name of the jpg file.. TBL production prototype you say?

Man oh man, the pre-order masses (including me) are clearly seizing upon any morsels of new info that can be found.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

One question about the music... the track list basically contains the full versions of all the tracks, is that right?? Would be really great if there was an easy way to switch the music... yes, the soundtrack is cool, but to have a feature where you could easily switch the music to other tracks you upload through a USB stick would be awesome!

That would be nice. One concern I have (unfounded or not remains to be seen) is - God forbid - getting tired of the great soundtrack after hearing the same songs over and over and over.

1 week later
#154 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

Anyone order the T-shirts!
I got 2.

I was going to order one, but at $52 w/shipping, I decided to hold off for the time being.

1 week later
#195 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Just found out....all of Liam's and Larry's call outs have been approved and will be used in the game.

Yes - but will Liam's "strike dance" make the video clips? That's a must.

#196 4 years ago

And chicks dig it.

#203 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Just heard from Barry, he's eager to answer all questions and is wants to do a kind of FAQs response, so if there are any more specific questions, get them in

My questions:

1. When will all pre-orderer "true serial numbers" be released by?

2. When can all pre-orderers residing within the 48 continental US states, expect to receive their game by?

3. What % complete (with 100% meaning all bugs addressed and anticipated refinements made) can the code expected to be at the time of delivery?


3 weeks later
#281 4 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

I have slight indication there is being worked on a new NSNL and it will be promising...

Hopefully, "true serial number" notifications will be sent soon given that pre-ordering ended two months ago.

Quoted from bemmett:

WAY disappointed TBL won't be making an appearance at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown here next weekend. Every other new game will be here! :-/

I know the feeling. The NW Pinball Show (which started today) has Kiss, Hobbit, and a prototype Magic Girl, but no Big Lebowski.

Very disappointing as I was hoping to finally see it in person.

1 week later
#320 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

How and with whom did you work that deal?

Yeah, was wondering the same thing - what the hey?!

#357 4 years ago

59 for me. How cool - the year of my birth and the number I consequently have put on any custom sports jerseys I buy!

Here's hoping that there are a bunch of European Dudes ahead of me and my game makes the first container to the US!

2 weeks later
#411 4 years ago

Is there something significant about the 10th?

#415 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

You're out of your element! Go watch the movie again!

Quoted from jazzmaster:

» YouTube video

I feel "like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know..."

2 months later
#486 4 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I searched around for a little and can't seem to find pricing information. Does anyone know what they will run when they are available through a distributor?

The last purchase price I recall seeing for those who hadn't pre-ordered by the initial payment deadline was $9,000 plus an additional $500 for the chrome/rug package. No guarantee of course that this will be the case once the game is being marketed again.

1 week later
#493 4 years ago

In the meantime, keep the faith ...

#499 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

We're throwing rocks tonight!

You forgot the preceding "Woo!" Dude.

#515 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If they have a couple of final machines at Expo that will be rad, really looking forward to seeing it. I don't regret dropping out, the price was just too high for me to justify, but I still think it's a bad ass machine.

Any news on the "Dude Doobie" mod that you're aware of?

#522 4 years ago

Cool - I look forward to hearing more when you guys are able to get back to it. Thanks!

#543 4 years ago
Quoted from Dr_Spaceman:

I'd be really disappointed if the apron didn't have the cut stars. They really tie the game together. Seriously, keep the rug DP, but give me the stars. Let's just hope the aprons in the pic aren't what wind up in the game.
Anyone else notice the Wrestlemania translite to the left in the pic with the 2 cabs?

What?! I for one, will be pissed should the final apron be less than what has been represented to date and I'm not willing to sacrifice the rug either. These are both part of tbe total TBL package that I paid for.

That said, I'm fully confident that DP will eventually deliver the great game that they have promised so far.

#553 4 years ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

+ 1 on the proto apron. I'd even pay for an upgrade if it came to that......Anybody planning any mods besides the glowing doobie one already in the works?

Bowling balls sitting in the Brunswick ball return and Jackie Treehorn doodle spinners for starters.

#561 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Once I get mine I'll generate headphone kit and sub adapter kits for them.

I'm glad to hear this as I'm planning to add a Polk Audio subwoofer and Pinnovators control panel, as I typically do on my newer games, as soon as possible.

#572 4 years ago

I'm not suggesting that Zidware and DP are anywhere close to being the same, but after listening to the JPop interview on Coast2Coast, and based on the commonly expressed understanding that "building a pinball machine is hard", I can better imagine some of the challenges and behind the scenes goings on that may be occurring for The Big Lebowski game.

1 week later
#584 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

I don't understand why Kahlua wouldn't want in on TBL pinball, especially after seeing this video:
» YouTube video
They clearly tied this promo video with the Lebowski movie, even down to the video's description.

They don't like pinball.

#589 4 years ago
Quoted from karl:

I would imagine that they like pinball just fine. But they like money even more

No man, sincerely, they DON'T like pinball.

#677 4 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

Does anyone think we'll receive a NSNL today?

Given the previously promised game features that will no longer be delivered, I'm sorry to say that I think "NBSNL"is more appropriate.

After looking forward to DP's presentation and exhibit at Expo for so long, I'm really disappointed with the lack and type of "new shit" that has come forth at the show about TBL so far. Hopefully, that will change for the better when more detailed info is provided from Pinball News and various podcasters. If not, I sure hope someone asks some hard questions of DP at the Dutch Pinball Open next month.

#717 4 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Making a pinball machine is hard, any questions now?

So is risking $8,500 to support a game and then hearing about major changes secondhand.

Less than ideal communications aside, THANK YOU Dutch Pinball for moving forward with the difficult process of making what will no doubt still be a great game!

2 weeks later
#781 3 years ago
Quoted from karl:

Much more important, I really dig the new apron. I only hope it is metal made and not plastic, but judging from the render it looks fab, smoking hot.

It is a nice looking compromise. Can't tell for sure from the photos so far whether the artwork on it is still lit or not. Looks more like not unfortunately.

Quoted from sd_tom:

Yeah noticed the button. Seems permanent change as the bowling ball button was apparently a point of failure on the protos. I am guessing operators also appreciate normal button as well for newbie instructions "launch ball". Don't think yellow is final color though, prob orange which will blend in better I think.
I will miss it as, like the apron, it was a premium touch.

I much prefer the bowling ball button too as it was another unique feature. Hopefully, this won't need to be a future mod.

2 weeks later
#892 3 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

But if they refund through papal the fee is refunded too.

Yet another plus to be the Pope.

1 week later
#912 3 years ago

You guys are bumming me out. Thank God that I have Stern's forthcoming Bedknobs and Broomsticks game (WITH original songs) to distract me while DP finishes TBL!

#920 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

let me know when production cranks up on Something Wicked This Way Comes. I'm all in.

I only know what I read on Pinside. Good thing that it's all reliable info.

#934 3 years ago

Yep yep yep ... SIGH.

Just sittin' here languishing in TBL limbo.

1 week later
#958 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:


So is Christmas, as they say. 2016 in this case.

#970 3 years ago
Quoted from BigLebowski:

Hopefully, but we´ve been at this point a number of times over the last 6-9 months. And - speaking for myself only - my enthusiasm died down quite substantially over that period and especially over the whole video-song-license crap . I still want that pin (mainly because I´ve paid for it ), but I´m far from convinced that it´ll be the great machine that I was expecting 6 months ago. And I´m not biting my nails anymore to get it as soon as possible like I did back then.
But before somebody asks: I´m not offering my place in line here.

I hear the song you're singing man. In fact, I think we're in the same choir.

3 weeks later
#989 3 years ago

Dudes - FYI (& FWIW):

Spoke to Melissa at CoinTaker today.

For anyone contemplating ordering a TBL: $9,995 price includes rug, chrome trim, and delivery to your door. Anticipated shipping is May/June.

For pre-orderers: anticipated shipping is Feb/March. All games will probably be shipped thru Cointaker so that they can inspect them, but this has not been finalized with DP yet.

#1004 3 years ago
Quoted from Darth_Chris:

Ok I just got back on planet Lebowski.
Looks like I'm completly disconnected
When I heard Dutch Pinball did not get license right I though : that's it.......project is dead
Audio versions of the songs and movie clips are pretty good.
Now they have that : waiting for final approval label in every clip.
Do we know if clips and songs will stay ?
Any way we could do a pinball browser mod like Cleland did in Twd to switch back to the original songs ?
I'm so confuse right now cause i'm a hge fan of TBL that's why without clips, callouts or music it's just not Lebowski

3 weeks later
#1042 3 years ago


#59 rolling off the line in early May! Book it.

Now to just make those airline reservations to the Netherlands for the 2/12 factory tour!

1 week later
#1065 3 years ago
Quoted from T-Bone21:

Here is a great video from Pinball News: » YouTube video

And accompanying fantastic Pinball News write up on latest TBL info:


and Pinball Magazine's posted today as well:


(scroll down about 40% for article start)

1 month later
#1101 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

TPF is here.. Anything going on in the rumor mill? Hoping the games do well and the code shows continued progress. Anyone going to Jaap's talk? Hoping we get production updates during the talk and/or a NSNL comes out to coincide with the show.

Quoted from rubberducks:

Hopefully someone will be filming it and it can be uploaded to youtube.

Hope springs eternal (once again).

#1102 3 years ago

An auspicious beginning to the Texas Pinball Festival (from CoinTaker's TPF thread):


#1151 3 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

If you wanna spring for the extra costs in airfreight this is possible of course

I think I'll wait and have my game go steerage class with the others.

Thanks as always for all your info Rens!

#1154 3 years ago
Quoted from DeadFlip:

Playing The Big Lebowski at TPF2016 against Jaap!
» YouTube video

Thanks for making this available! Cool to see the latest gameplay action. The software seems more developed since the factory tour, but appears to still have a long way to go yet (hopefully).

Also - from watching the video, it almost seems like the sub-playfield bowling alley was leaning to the side somewhat as the best shots resulted from the "bowling ball" heading to the right out of the holder. Those starting out straight down the middle often resulted in gutter balls surprisingly.

#1165 3 years ago

I have not had the opportunity to see or play TBL in person yet, so I've been forced to rely on gameplay videos and the opinions of those that have. Even taking into consideration that it's likely the first time for many of the people playing TBL in the Dead Flip streaming video, I think that many of their facial expressions (or lack thereof) while playing the game are somewhat concerning.

That said, I'm looking forward to making my own assessment when my game finally arrives and am hopeful for continued code development in the meantime.

#1189 3 years ago

Good observations and suggestions! I noticed a few things such as the rug mode not advancing past a certain point either, but then wrote off analyzing the current code further as it seems to just be in "draft mode".

I'd have to watch the video again to verify this, but it also seemed that the rug mechanism took a few shots in one game, but didn't move. (?)

May just be wishful thinking on my part too, but FWIW, I'm hoping the bowling mechanism eventually comes into play in the game for more than just winning each character's ball. Its obviously a major (and no doubt costly) feature in the game and there are lots of possibilities there for incorporating more aspects of bowling into the rules set. On the flip side, I realize that some players may not want the pinball play interrupted more, but it's the bowling feature as well as the TBL theme that drew me to this game.

2 weeks later
#1234 3 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

I hate crickets.

As an Early Achiever, I've grown accustomed to the sound.

#1246 3 years ago

Yeah - this is hardly a cheap game as is, and I've waited this long already (and some yet to come before mine is actually built) that the additional cost of air freight versus waiting a bit longer for sea freight just isn't worth the extra cost to me.

Besides, the software is going to be playing catch up so what's the rush at this point realistically?

#1259 3 years ago
Quoted from hawkmoon:

I guess we won't see one at PAGG I was kinda hoping!!!

2017 for sure man!

#1277 3 years ago

"This is a bummer man. That's a, that's a bummer."

#1294 3 years ago

Thanks for the pics Dude!

#1323 3 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

You should drive down from BC to Seattle in June for the show and play one in person!

Whuh?! Is the NW Show going to actually have a TBL this year?!

#1334 3 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

We should, Nitro Amusements from BC will have a booth for the first time this year. They are the Canadian distributor, their plan is to have a Big Lebowski, Full Throttle, Bride 2.0 and Aliens if it's out by then (doubtful), probably a bunch of other rad stuff. We also are going to have at least 6 Ghostbusters, it's crazy. Getting excited!

Cool - thanks!

#1335 3 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

Thanks, really looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Is the code any more advanced than we've previously seen?

Ditto. Code development is most important at this point.

2 weeks later
#1426 3 years ago

A couple of excerpts from the current "Stern Delays" thread that I think are applicable here as well:

... might as well be up-front and honest about the production issues/schedule rather than try to hide it and make customers upset about it in the process. Customers are usually quite understanding if things are explained, some reasons are given, and what is being done to resolve said issues. They only get upset when their concerns are met with silence because they feel like they are being ignored and that they don't matter.

If your communication methods have been sloppy and ineffective, it is time that you improve them. Why? Because effective communication with your customers is vital for the success of your business. For your company to thrive, you must always keep your customers in the loop. If you fail to do so, your customers will eventually stop doing business with you.

#1439 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

My IMve, Tron LE and TBL will be together - The Jeff Bridges Pinball Trilogy

Very cool. I'm hoping to complete this trilogy as well.

#1450 3 years ago
Quoted from JoshODBrown:

I got to play The Big Lebowski for about an hour all by myself in the early hours of the last day of the Edmonton YEGPIN Pinball and Arcade Expo a couple weeks ago. I filmed 10 minutes or so of footage across 2 games where i got a few different modes/multi ball. The video is our Canadian Arcade YEGPIN video, but ive linked it to right where the Big Lebowski footage starts, as to not bore you all with the other stuff. LOVE this game, and almost considered selling off my Ghostbusters and a couple other games to finance this thing. I hope to get to play it again some day!
» YouTube video

Thanks for recording and posting this - it's GREAT to see some new video clips and gameplay code. Love the Nihilist Showdown and ending match sequence among others!

I'm really looking forward to finally seeing and playing TBL in person for the first time in a couple weeks at the NW Show!

#1464 3 years ago
Quoted from Bing_Party:

Just curious on what you guys think of this machine compared to the GB premium. I only have room for 1 more pin or I gotta sell something. GB vs TBL? I value your opinions

I can only base an opinion on watching videos of each, but they both look like they'll be great games to own and you won't go wrong either way. If I could only have one, TBL would be my personal choice as I like the theme better and DP has done a fantastic job with unique features, artwork, and video display. The jury is still out on the code, but I'm confident that the final product will shine as well.

That said, GB is less expensive and you'll probably be able to get it a lot sooner. Given TBL's current slow production rate, I'd probably go for a GB if I were looking at both fresh, as you are, and wanted to acquire one in the short term.

#1469 3 years ago
Quoted from JoshODBrown:

So if a person were to order The Big Lebowski now, what sort of wait times would we be probably looking at to get one?

Good question. Dutch Pinball is probably the only one that can answer that accurately and they haven't issued any official production updates since their initial preliminary schedule provided in February.

#1476 3 years ago
Quoted from Bing_Party:

Thanks man! Is there any concerns about Dutch Pinball as being a reliable pinball maker? Very little on them. Are they just a one off maker or is this there start and they intend to move on to build other machines?

There are no guarantees with new pinball manufacturers. Recent history has shown that and it has been a roller coaster ride with TBL since it made its big debut at Expo 2014. Things have settled into a long slow final development of the game since the Phil (former DP partner) debacle in early 2015, but TBL will not be a sure thing until all pre-orderers have received their games and it lives up to set expectations.

Other than TBL, DP has completed a well received reprogramming and display upgrade for Bride of Pinbot. They have not yet announced their next game although they supposedly plan to make more. Their stated focus has been finishing TBL first.

I, and many other pre-orderers, have invested in TBL because we love the theme, we want to see this game succeed, and we believe in DP. That said, I would not presume to tell you whether you should bank $10K on TBL and DP or not. Lots of history here on Pinside though to help you decide. Good luck with your decision!

#1538 3 years ago
Quoted from Mike_M:

I love pinball. I love the Big Lebowski. I love white russians. How can I not order one?

There you go - well said. Welcome Dude!

#1562 3 years ago

I'm very jealous Dude. But also very grateful for the video and your insights on the game! Thanks for your time and effort on these.

I guess in retrospect, the concerns regarding a potential lack of clips from the movie were unnecessary as there seems to be lots of them incorporated into the gameplay. Very cool DP!

#1591 3 years ago

Standing in line right now waiting for my first ever play of TBL. Looks great so far!


#1592 3 years ago

Update: Game just crashed for the 2nd time in an hour.
Supposedly due to a loose connector last time.

#1594 3 years ago

All is well again and just played! Great looking game and solid feel. Not easy, but I was able to get it up the right ramp a number of times and finally got bowling started. Very cool!

#1629 3 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

Huge excitement about it at the Northwest Pinball & Arcade Show this past weekend, it won best pinball machine in the awards and the line was 5 to 25 people deep the entire time. Most talked about game at the show for sure, most played game, most buzz.

Definitely seemed to be the most popular game at the show! I went thru the line four times myself.

A fun game even without the latest code upgrade installed apparently (missing rug mode completion shots, red lit sub-playfield during Nihilist Showdown, and other misc details that can be seen in JustLikeMe's V0.43 gameplay videos.)

1 week later
#1678 3 years ago

It has been 11 days since the last updated code gameplay video (thank you JustLikeMe) and I'm jonesing for a new fix.

Any new footage available from new TBL owners?

#1680 3 years ago

Yikes! Sorry (on multiple levels) to hear that you're still having issues with your TBL Guy. I hope you're fully enjoying your game as intended soon! No worries re: next video - thanks again!

1 week later
#1713 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Cool! Only a year after you said you'd get it too.
At least you were smart enough not to take me up on my wager.
Posted 5-13-15:

Damn those past posts that come back to haunt you!

I had a similar exchange with RobT about getting my TBL by the end of 2015. This year for sure!

2 weeks later
#1735 3 years ago
Quoted from BigLebowski:

... and it´s now sitting in my parking garage and I have to figure out a way to get this 160kg beast into my flat on the 4th floor.... I'll probably remove the backbox because separated they fit into my elevator.


Congrats and good luck with the final move! Looking forward to hearing your take on the game when you get a chance.

#1738 3 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Typical it is indeed 3 weeks however I understood it is 2 weeks in this case but not full capacity for a few weeks more. So a more spread holiday

A few weeks yet until the first container of 21 games is filled?

Quoted from geo:

I wanted to report from Pintastic New England. Jaap was at the show and did a great presentation. He talked about the details they wanted in the game and showed the customization menus. Talked about he modes and stacking.
Had drinks with Jaap... it was an opportunity to pound him with questions, but I didn't.

Any specific discussion of game production rate? Hardware refinements? Code upgrades?

#1765 3 years ago
Quoted from dannylite:

I'm #31

Bummer Dude, but you're now FIRST in line for the next container!

Perhaps with #30 making the first container, there's hope yet for mine (#59) joining yours!

#1782 3 years ago

Interesting to see the list on page 1 of those that "are in".

#1825 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I got an alert that DP HQ was live on twitch around 3am PST. Anyone, likely in Europe catch it? No video archive.

Same here and stream was apparently already over by the time I saw the alert. I wish they would make their broadcasts available for viewing later. I'd really love to see some updated gameplay.

#1843 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

... my only worry is that Homeland Security might select our container for quarantine.

That and pirates seeking PRECIOUS treasure on the high seas.

#1873 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Maybe you guys can relate. I've been reluctant to where my DP T-shirt to work (causal Friday) lately as I was getting too many questions from coworkers about "hey did you ever get that pinball machine"? Today its coming out of the closet.

I can certainly relate and congratulations Dude for coming out of the closet with your DP shirt!

I've been getting the "Did you get your Big Lebowski game yet?" question from various co-workers and friends regularly for a long time now. While on one hand, I really appreciate them asking since very few have any real interest in pinball (it's the Big Lebowski theme that intrigues them), I have tired of having to reply that I'm still waiting.

It will be a grand day indeed when I can proudly exclaim that my TBL is on its way! Although I've never worn my DP shirt to work yet, perhaps I'll buy of those costlier DP t-shirts with the "Fuck it Dude - let's go bowling!" wording on the back (assuming they're still available) for the occasion.

1 week later
#1979 3 years ago

Congrats - this is a truly historic US event! Like the first colonists at Jamestown.

#2004 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

If people have some mod ideas, I have a 3d printer

Still hoping to see these become reality. Perhaps once the market develops after enough TBLs reach North America.


#2017 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Hopefully it won't have the same ending.

Yes - for burningman's sake, but we're talking big picture here Dude.

Similarly to the impact that the first colonists have had on our lives, the benefits of TBL arriving in North America are potentially huuuuuge! Believe me!

#2020 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Finally making space for Tuesday!

Are you sure it will fit? Measured twice? Looks like it might be tight for the rug.

#2021 3 years ago

2 weeks later
#2087 3 years ago

I hope you second container guys are appreciating this trailblazing

Great info - thanks guys!

I hope DP is able to address these issues soon. Although this is a "new" game, I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of mechanical issues that have arisen given how long and how much the numerous prototypes were played and tested.

#2128 3 years ago

Thanks! Wish the info was in English, but hearing the game discussed in Dutch is still cool.

Interesting to see TBL's being individually hand crafted. The difference in pace between DP's and Stern's (mass) production is remarkable.

#2133 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

... vegan, and don't drink!

I have new pity for you Rarehero.

#2137 3 years ago

Gotta consume like the Dude man!

In-N-Out burger (resized).jpgWhite Russian (resized).jpg

#2139 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Do we ever actually see the Dude eating at In-and-Out? Maybe they were just picking up a sack of burgers for Walter. I kind of imagine the Dude being veggie/vegan.
Booze on the other hand ...

We never actually see the Dude bowl either ...

1 week later
#2198 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I can't think of way to say this that doesn't sound dickish, but I played this game nearly 2 years ago, why isn't the code further along after all this time?

I don't know why exactly, but it was supposed to be. Among the questions that were collectively submitted by Pinsiders to DP more than a year ago, I asked about the anticipated degree of code completion at game release. I seem to recall Barry responding at the time that it should be around 85% finished.

#2209 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

... I do hope that the code is only 45% complete as the revision would suggest.

There is way too much to work with in this game to just leave it with a shallow set of objectives.

DP also needs to add more songs to the game.

I absolutely agree with all these points. The beauty of TBL as a theme is that it offers soooo many great lines and scenes that can be adapted into really cool modes and creative features.

DP has done a fantastic job with incorporating the theme into the game's visuals so far. Based on their history with BOP 2.0, I'm hopeful that they'll come through on developing the code to its full potential as well. Unfortunately, based on their history again, it will likely be a slow process.

#2236 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

This needs to change. If there is no challenging strategic element, this game will suffer.


Although I'm a big fan of the movie, theme, and DP's product so far, I have high expectations for this game's code being developed much further than what I've experienced or heard so far.

1 week later
#2256 3 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

I think you'll see #54 in the next batch once they have fixed all of the diverters.

With #30 first in line for the next container, and 42 games being shipped this time, the next lot will include at least up thru #71 and probably beyond as a number of the games in between will most likely be going to non-North American customers.

Quoted from taz:

I wouldn't be surprised to see another big update to coincide with their second container shipping.

For their sake, I hope that DP brings something to Expo (i.e. games to play with more advanced code, news of stepped up production and deliveries, etc.) to help rejuvenate some of the excitement about TBL that has been lost since its initial debut at the show 2 years ago.

#2260 3 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

They've been bringing games to a lot of big shows since then, each with the latest code at the time. I think they've been building excitement through shows. I know at the NW Pinball & Arcade Show this past June ...

Sure, having TBL games to play at shows is great and although a lot of folks are willing to wait in long lines to try it out, the general buzz surrounding TBL is now a fraction of what it was when it was first unveiled with much fanfare at Expo two long years ago. And FWIW, while finally having a TBL for the first time at the NW Show this year was wonderful, unbelievably, it was not running the latest code version available at the time!

The point intended in my post though was merely that if DP wants to compete with the other manufacturers exhibiting new games at Expo this year, they need to have something significant to talk up about TBL other than games starting to trickle out of the factory or code that is cool, but STILL has a ways to go yet. As a DP and TBL supporter, I hope they will.

#2261 3 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

#30 is sitting in my living room.

Oops - my mistake.

dannylite's game (next in line to be shipped via container) is #31.

#2282 3 years ago

The DP guys at the Dutch Pinball Museum in Rotterdam this past week:

DP Guys at Dutch Pinball Museum (resized).jpg

#2287 3 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Just from this video the bowling alley looks level and the ball appears to be shot out.
» YouTube video
:57 mark

Sorry Dude, but it looks like it is fed and rolls down via gravity to me in that video.

#2293 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

this bowling alley is really a great toy. amazing!
how does it work? like in real or is it virtual?

My understanding is that the mech uses optos to detect where the ball strikes the pins and software causes the applicable pins to react (fold upward in this case).

#2298 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

you mean the software is able to calculate the falling of a pin by another pin?
how can it be possible to analyse the trajectory of the ball in all the track?

I'm not yet personally familiar with the actual mech's design and operation, but I would imagine that the pin reaction process is a technically advanced version of that employed in old electro-mechanical "big ball" and puck bowlers in that, depending on the path that the ball traveled through the pins (i.e. which switches the ball/puck physically contacted), the applicable pins would be activated.

In the case of TBL, you have modern optical sensors to detect the ball location/path and software to compute the resulting pin reaction instead of the physical switch contacts protruding above the lane and hard wired stepper units on the old EM games. The trajectory of the ball prior to reaching the pins may or may not be inconsequential - although as pointed out by burningman, the game can detect the angle of the launcher when the ball is released and factor this into computing the resultant pin reaction.

#2308 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

sorry buddy, i don't know EM games.
for me bowling is like snooker, the impact location makes the ball (the pin) going to the left, to the right etc
i think it is to much difficult to reproduce the exact moves of the pins except if all the pin is a sensitive captor that can record the impact location and so calculate the trajectory of each pin and their fall or not.

It's pretty amazing what EM game designers were able to accomplish given the limited hard-wired technology that they worked with. While relatively simplistic in design, EM bowling games still typically employ a big enough variety of pin combinations, based on the actual switches activated by the ball/puck, to keep the game challenging and fun.

Although it still won't be able to duplicate the complex myriad of real-life physics (along with random element of luck) that factor into bowling pins reacting to being struck by a ball and each other, my expectation is that TBL's bowling mech, given its use of optos and computer software, will be able to better incorporate the actual physics of bowling and produce a greater variety of pin combinations as a result.

TBL's subplayfield bowling game is a truly unique feature among pinball games and let's hope that future code development continues to expand on its realism and use within the gameplay!

#2314 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

EAE edition has special badging, chrome and rug for $8500
Standard edition has chrome and rug for $10,000

My understanding is CoinTaker's $10K price includes shipping. Early Achievers have to pay cost of shipping from CoinTaker in addition to $8,500 pre-order price already paid to DP.

#2332 3 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I look forward to seeing it again with the 1.0 software apparently coming out in several weeks!

Version 1.0? That would be very cool indeed! Did Jaap state this at the Vancouver FlipOut seminar as well?

Quoted from eggbert52:

So I think I figured it out. I'm probably #85 on Cointaker's list and not necessarily overall obviously. I ordered in late July so seriously doubt I'm getting an early edition game. I will call to verify though.

I'm betting you're right. I'm #59 and I ordered in July too, but it was 2014.

#2335 3 years ago

Only 3 camera views and 3 hours of gameplay?! Is that the best you could do?!!!

Seriously though - this is GREAT! I'm assuming this is Gene X Hwang's game?


#2343 3 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

That was my understanding, version 1.0 was only a few weeks away (at the Vancouver Fliput seminar). I hope I did not misunderstand! There was definitely a new update planned to be released in a few weeks, and Jaap listed a number of new modes the only one of which I can remember is "The Dude Abides".

Thanks - that would be great and I certainly hope that your understanding is correct! I'll be surprised if this is as significant as 1.0 though as the current code is around 0.45 and past upgrades have been by hundredths in terms of version number.

#2351 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinbally_1968:

no worries dude, Jeff is with us

Cool - I'm in need of a TRON yet as well to complete the coveted Jeff Bridges trilogy once my TBL arrives. Looks like you'll still need "evil Jeff" (IM) for the set.

Congrats on your impending TBL #58's arrival! I imagine mine (#59) must be built & tested by now and is just sitting at DP's factory awaiting completion of the next container's lot.

#2360 3 years ago

Congrats Dudes - I never get tired of seeing pics of newly unboxed TBLs on their official rugs!

1 week later
#2407 3 years ago

Now, the good news: yesterday we sent another 20-foot container to the harbour of Rotterdam. It contains another 21 games for the US, up to True Serial Number™ #51.

Congrats to Dudes #31 - 51!

Quoted from Rarehero:

Argh!!! That means mine just missed the container!!!! I thought the next container was supposed to be 40 games?

F***in' A Dude! Where's the f***ing 42-game container Lebowski?!

[Big Lebowski - Every Single God Damned Shit Fucking Swear]

#2414 3 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Where did you get these? They look so cool!


Shhhhh ... keep this under your hat. (They might sell out otherwise.)

#2422 3 years ago

Just heard on the latest Bro Do You Even Talk Pinball podcast that Jaap/DP will supposedly be speaking at Expo today after all.

4:00 PM CST

#2424 3 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Don't know where this comes from but this is incorrect. Jaap is not at Pinexpo

Yeah - that was my understanding per DP's last NSL, but Dave Fix, the 10/9 podcast guest, and apparently involved with Expo, indicated that things had changed again and DP was going to be at the show.

Dunno anything else on this.

#2427 3 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

What's the process for ordering one of these?

CoinTaker is Dutch Pinball's US distributor for TBL and new orders need to be placed through them.


3 weeks later
#2520 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Not yet. It may have to wait until this weekend ...

1 week later
#2528 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

We need some new code!

I'll settle for actually getting my game! The window is closing on getting it in 2016 now and no info whatsoever coming out of DP.


#2530 2 years ago

I hope you're right Rens, but given that you're more than 100 behind me in line, I'm thinking that your estimate is optimistic - even without transatlantic shipping - unless DP speeds up their turnout dramatically. Admittedly though, my guess is uneducated as I can only base it on past projections versus reality to date.

#2532 2 years ago

I've had it in my head that my game (#59) would be shipped once they had another 21-game container filled by completing #70 something. I now realize that DP is probably going to finally go with a 42-game container and shipping for me has been delayed until they finish a #90 something game.

Just my guess anyway.

#2536 2 years ago
Quoted from mizzou:

So, stupid question. I got the last game from coin taker after someone canceled theirs....how do you guys know which number is yours? Did coin taker or DP tell you guys when you put your deposit down?

Our games are "early achiever" pre-orders which I understand went up to #190 or so. Coin Taker and Nitro subsequently sold their allotted games beyond those I believe - up to #300 (?) total.

#2542 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Irrelevant. I paid for this game in 2014. It's built. Let's go!

Fuckin' A Dude! After 2 1/2 years of waiting, let's go bowling already!

#2553 2 years ago

Looks like DP substituted a Long Island Iced Tea for the White Russian on yours. Better send it back!

#2565 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I haven't played TBL in over a year so can't formulate a guess. What's the over / under on the software?
Currently TBL code feels like it is (40, 60, 80 or 100 percent complete).
DP will stop issuing updates once code reaches (80, 100 or 120.percent).

Current code version is 0.45 if that's any indicator. The hope is that it will progress to 1.0 eventually. Last upgrades have been in 0.01 increments.

Quoted from patrickvc:

Is there a family mode?


#2583 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I think Nitro had a few left available from there original allotment.. I believe they are in Canada so not sure how that works for those wanting a game in the US.

Tommy with Nitro has said that all the TBLs come to North America via Coin Taker's location so it's not a problem for US buyers to purchase one from him and get it shipped from Coin Taker.

1 month later
#2683 2 years ago
Quoted from kapper:

I hate hearing all of these issues out of the box on this one. It makes me worried to get mine - I really need a reliable game as I'm not technically very good.

It is somewhat disconcerting to hear of the various mechanical issues that have come up on games. Thanks for all the info so far Dudes and I hope any and all problems are resolved for you soon!

On a positive note, I have a nearby friend who is a BIG-time collector and received his TBL in the second shipment. His game played well for me, he absolutely LOVES it, and as of Xmas, he had only encountered a single (and very easily resolved) mechanical issue on his.

#2689 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Bowling alley before touch up pic on right. Look at black spot to the right. Then after paint touch up.
Anyone have any suggestions to make it look better?

I see a very small black dot between the two right arrows - one in each of the photos. Not sure if this is the damage you're referring to (?).

If it is - honestly, either the damage doesn't show as bad it should in your photos or you've done a fine job repairing it visually - the bowling alley looks fine as is. Certainly doesn't appear to be bad enough to go to the trouble of dismantling the unit and installing a new entire decal. Is the damage enough to disrupt the path of the ball?

As far as the loose bolt & parts: did the piece still in the nut get sheared off of the bolt?

3 weeks later
#2791 2 years ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Their communication has been no worse than any other company who has actually put out a pinball.

Hardly. Just look to Spooky for an example that Dutch could emulate. I have been invested in TBL for nearly three years now and their communication has been remarkably poor ever since the Phil debacle.

3 weeks later
#2924 2 years ago

I was pleased to see that I had finally received an update email from DP. And then I read it. No change on the TBL front - wait for the next show (TPF this time) to hopefully hear some new info.


#2946 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

wonder if they should take a survey? would people prefer paying another $1k to 'grease the wheels' and maybe in exchange DP commits to TBL being only a run of 300 units and no more / they won't pursue another run regardless of demand?

Are you suggesting that all TBL owners potentially contribute?

Personally, I'd rather DP pursue other options before asking for more $ for a game that is currently underdeveloped as well as way behind schedule.


#2974 2 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

ARA did not reach out to me. I reached out to them. I was not satisfied with DP's "board problem" excuses. It took some leg work to find contacts at ARA.

Thank you pinghetto! Even though the news is bad so far, it's nice to FINALLY have some info.

#3016 2 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

... if it's just fo the fun of seeing others go berserk over the next few months of further delays

That would be very undude-like Dude.

#3129 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I can't help but remembering a quote from Tuna Delight many months ago.


You're mean o-din.

I have no choice but to continue to be optimistic though as I have a fully paid for game (#59) that has apparently been sitting in the Netherlands ready to ship since October.

#3228 2 years ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

It appears you haven't read anything that has been documented in this thread directly from DP and ARA. It's also very clear that you don't have a horse in this race. Thanks for your opinion though.

This applies to more than just "someoneelse".

#3269 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Man, this sucks, I was really hopeful that this project had managed to escape all the drama ... Still, best of luck, hang in there as best you can, you've come this far, and I guess a lot of you don't really have a choice anyways ...

Speculation abounds at this point. Nothing new (unfortunately) for the nearly 3 years that I've been invested in a TBL.

In the meantime, the Dudes abide. Not much other choice for "Early Achievers" anyway until more info and viable options are known .

#3343 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Why do people keep referring to a "white lie" here? If your girlfriend asks you if she looks fat in her college jeans and you say "no" to make her feel good, that's a white lie. This seems ... different.

Damn straight.

Definitions of "white lie":
1.) A harmless or trivial lie, especially one told to avoid hurting someone's feelings.
2.) A minor or unimportant lie, esp one uttered in the interests of tact or politeness.

If, as has been alleged, Dutch Pinball deliberately misled its customers regarding why fully paid for manufactured games have not been shipping for months now, it is definitely different from a "white lie".

#3354 2 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

I think it's ironic, as you scroll to the bottom of this page there is an add for The Big Lebowski pre order for $9,000.

Definitely IRONIC!

Aye yi yi.

1 week later
#3536 2 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

One thing I have to say was that production line with the robots was crazy overkill man ...

Are you referring to the early videos from DP that showed parts being shaped and playfields sprayed?

#3539 2 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

Yes did you see that! Must have been a Jackie Treehorn facility lol

Yeah - those initial robotic parts production videos were impressive looking. However, the actual assembly line at ARA looked anything but automated. Reliant on human assemblers and way fewer stations than Stern uses in their process.

#3578 2 years ago
Quoted from cudabee:

That said, doing business is hard and has alot of ins and outs.

Being a TBL "Early Achiever" has been, and continues to be, hard too.

#3580 2 years ago
Quoted from eraserhead:

I'm hanging on to my cointaker spot like a moron..... oh well.

Why consider yourself a moron when Coin Taker is backing your $1K deposit and not DP?

I'd do the same in your position.

#3582 2 years ago

Good news on the previously delivered TBL games front! Just heard Tommy on This Flippin' Podcast report that the TBL at Main Street Amusements in Lafayette, IN that has been down for many weeks due to a suspected board issue is now back up and running fine. The problem turned out to actually be a bad USB port on the game's CPU.

#3585 2 years ago
Quoted from dannylite:

Well, that was a derail. Time please where they blather about TBL. Sorry t's late.

The TBL update starts at 05:32 into the episode.

#3639 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Does anyone really think DP will actually present at TPF? How was their presentation/seminar at the 2016 PiNbAlL ExPO?

"This is our concern Dude."

images (resized).jpg

I for one have concerns - given not only their non-appearance at 2016 Expo, but their subsequent complete lack of info provided. I've been disappointed many times over the past three years after assuming that DP would be providing some news of significant progression on TBL at the "next" show that they were going to be at.

#3642 2 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

To some degree, I find their limited response reassuring and consistent with how a responsible party involved in prospective legal action behaves.

To some degree ... yes. However, do we know that DP is even actually involved in a legal action yet???

Along with numerous other "early achievers", I have invested $8,500 in TBL and stood behind DP faithfully for nearly three years now, and in turn have typically received infrequent semi-updates throughout that time, have been disappointed to find that previously promised features won't be delivered after all, discovered via a second party (and apparently confirmed by DP) that we've been outright lied to regarding our games that were supposed to have shipped last fall, and now have been simply told by DP that they're trying to work things out and we'll have to wait to find out more until Jaap appears at the TPF show.

In the meantime, DP still has my money and I still have no TBL, no information, and no real choice but to continue to hope that they can get their shit together. ARGH.

#3644 2 years ago

fotolia_24670761_xs (resized).jpg

#3662 2 years ago

Only 12 days, 17 hrs, and 33 minutes ...

Not that I'm anxiously awaiting this or anything.

1 week later
#3816 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I mean, they are announcing title #2 to get more preorder cash so they can finish title #1.

DP may not even be taking cash deposits on a second game. My guess is that they want to convey that they intend to be around for the long run.

#3821 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

This position requires DP to have their customers confidence.
If they didn't need funds to finish Big Lebowski they would have paid the $1000 euros per game and gotten them out the door. The idea they are sitting on a pile of cash and letting ARA hold games hostage because of the 'principle of the thing' is crazy. They are losing customers every minute they don't ship games. lots of people on this board have already cancelled downpayments at cointaker.
There is no way they made so much margin on game #1 that they have a pile of cash to buy parts and everything for game #2. they can't even afford or build a prototype to show for crying out loud.

Speculation abounds on Pinside and this thread is no exception. Hopefully, DP will finally provide some info this Sat that will put some of this to rest and reduce customers' anxiety as well.

#4034 2 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Hang in there early achievers, I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

Thanks - you bet and will do!

(Stated while wondering if I realistically have any other choice.)

#4053 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Got to say the tbl talk today was such a load of horse shit. I give Jaap credit for at least coming and giving the bad news but come on. Don't fail 250 people and then harp at them for being negative. The BOP super le is rediculous.

I hope to be able to hear Jaap's presentation. Sounds like it may be infuriating though.

I can say though that it was disappointing to finally receive DP's email today and see no acknowledgement whatsoever contained within it of the support that we've provided them and TBL over the last 3 years. Not to mention the huge $ amount that each "early achiever" has at stake. Other than their version of the debacle with ARA, it was only about keeping THEIR dream alive!


#4267 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Regards from a fellow Dutch (so NOT Danish) dude wishing everybody (including DP) the best.
We are the country which is second after Amerika ( see » YouTube video starting at 40 seconds )
Denmark was 3rd I think

Good info regarding DP & ARA and great video too! Thanks for sharing Rens.

#4399 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

We should watch The Big Lebowski. I feel like we're in a real life version of the movie. Lots of ins, outs, whathaveyou...nihilists, ringers....the dude just wanted his rug.

I think I'll just go bowling instead for the time being.

#4406 2 years ago


(you said "Kaneda")

#4434 2 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Anyone rooting for failure and by extension pinsiders getting screwed deserve a hard swift kick to the nuts. Repeatedly.

Yes. Unfortunately, this thread and others have drawn plenty of Pinsiders, with no stake in TBL, eager to pile on the negativity and kick "idiot" pre-orderers when things have looked dark recently.

#4436 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

And then there's the Early Achiever who tells us to "don't worry, be happy" while he plays his TBL.

As opposed to numerous others' posts, I really suspect that he didn't intend his to come across the way it did.

#4459 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Enough people have responded to this comment to make me realize it was poorly written and so vague its been misinterpreted. I value everyone's feedback and will try to learn from this. - Apologies.

FWIW - I think your comment was fine Kim and no apology is needed. It's no secret that when various Pinside threads heat up due to controversy such as the recent DP/TBL news and subsequent TPF announcement last weekend, they attract certain posters that add nothing productive and seem to only wish to increase the overall level of toxicity. Often at the expense of others who have a vested interest in the outcome being discussed. And once things cool down a bit, as the TBL threads have for the time being at least due to the ARA firing news, those posters lose interest and move on to other threads.

Not a big deal in the long run, but a less desirable aspect of an open forum nonetheless.

1 week later
#4528 2 years ago

On a positive note, I played a friend's Big Lebowski last night and am happy to report FWIW that his game has been pretty much trouble free, it played well, and was a lot of fun (including the latest code with the car modes)!

A little bittersweet for me as I thought of mine sitting in Holland for months now, but a good time nonetheless!

3 weeks later
#4714 2 years ago

Super wowie BOP V3.0 actually (get one before they're gone!)

#4727 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

I don't have any money in this but DP is finished. » YouTube video

Thanks man - good to know.

1 week later
#4844 2 years ago

Less is often more. In Pinside posts as well as in life.

Not looking to read books on this thread. Just sayin'.

#4882 2 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

I've never seen someone enjoy being wrong so much and so often.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Glad you have all the inside juice on DP, ARA and everything else! ...

Agree with him or not, I think some of flynnibus's contentions are certainly feasible given the lack of information that we're all left to speculate with.

#4885 2 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Royalty is repugnant. Hereditary dictators are an anathema to the Liberty bestowed by God on any free man in a constitutional republic.

Riiiiiiight ...

#4921 2 years ago

Glad we got an update, but ... ARGH!

#4923 2 years ago

Unhappy Early Achiever (resized).jpg

#4961 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

The Dude looks much more inviting than the MOTE(L) down the block. I'll bet they do good business.

By the hour?

#4972 2 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

So it's lose-lose, IMHO. The only way TBL's will command that kind of money on the secondary market from level-headed collectors is if DP makes their 300 TBL's (finishing code, stocking a functioning service dept, etc) and moves on to make another title, and another...

I don't see TBL owners losing out whether the remaining licensed games are made or not. TBL will be highly collectible regardless - just look no further than Magic Girl for an example of what very limited (and REALLY incomplete) games are commanding in price.

And if TBL owners just wish to keep it, they have what most consider to be a fun game with a great theme, great art, and truly unique features. Parts will be available too. They may be expensive, but they will be available one way or another.

#4985 2 years ago
Quoted from kapper:

short work week due to holiday.

Dutch holiday was end of last week. Looks to be another one next Monday. Not that these really factor much anymore given the current status.

#5073 2 years ago

The most frustrating thing for me with this whole TBL debacle, besides the fact of course, that I'm now coming up on 3 YEARS of being invested in a game now held hostage in Holland, is the lack of any available substantiated information that we're to base a decision upon and how little control we seem to have in resolving the root issue(s). Trust DP? Rely on Nivoge/ARA? Believe the fellow Pinsider who claims to have experience in these matters?

FWIW, an interesting portion of a post from Aurich on the "Rebirth of Heighway Pinball" thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rebirth-of-heighway-pinball/page/3#post-3800644) that adds to my wondering as to who really knows what they're talking about:

Quoted from Aurich:

... Just as a quick aside, you're right, but I just want to say that this is the case with every project from every company. Pinball, especially licensed pinball, is full of drama behind the scenes. Happens with Stern too, not just the startups, I've had the stories directly from the people working on the games. So much bullshit and headaches.

And here's the thing: you see these people here on Pinside or podcasts or whatever who act like they're insiders. They post up these legal theories, or financial rules, or tell you about leaks, act like they know what's going on. Trust me, knowing what was really happening and then reading these guys and their oh so serious posts, you have to laugh. Because they're so wrong, they're making it up and full of it, over and over and over.
Even when they had some kernel of truth you'd hardly recognize it by the time they're done.

Just keep that in mind in general, about DP or JJP or Heighway or American Pinball or even Stern. The guys acting like they know? They probably don't know. The real dirt doesn't get leaked, or what does come out is game of telephone distorted before it gets public. ...

#5087 2 years ago

Let's hope so.

#5136 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

You cant make up the fact someone actually purchased a game that was being held hostage!! Hopefully that only required a deposit and not the full price.

I wish. All the "Early Achievers", like me, who have games being held hostage, paid in full for them.

#5225 2 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I understand what you're saying. However, as Achievers according to you only have a relation with DP, then DP should just inform them about the progress of the production. No need to get into detail on what is going on behind the scenes. A simple "We had a problem with our contract manufacturer and are now moving our production to a new manufacturer. This will cause a delay of currently unknown length to the delivery of your game, but we're doing everything we can to ship you your game as soon as possible." would then be enough. Right?

Sorry Jonathan, but I respectfully disagree. NOT right.

I've been in for nearly 3 years (since July 2014) on a game that was promised at the time to be delivered in early 2015. It has been 8 MONTHS now since DP announced that they were shipping the next container of 21 games (up through game #51). This 2nd shipment was originally supposed to have been a 42-game container which would have included mine (#59). Unfortunately, this turned out to be the last container shipment.

Since then ... a deliberate lie from DP about bad boards needing to be switched out, followed by practically no info for months until admitting earlier this year that they've had an ongoing issue with ARA, and then a series of disappointing show and newsletter updates that have produced very little info, no seemingly feasible solution, no time frame for achieving one, and a whole lot of unanswered questions from those who have invested in DP and TBL.

I think that I have been very patient with DP on the whole, but after this long, simple assurances from them that they are doing their best and to trust them simply no longer cuts it. Those of us who have paid for games deserve much more than lip service!

#5249 2 years ago

From DP update today:
We understand that a weekly update is not enough. We therefore have planned a webinar on Monday June 19th. We (Barry and Jaap) will give you an update about the production of TBL and also do a Q & A session. We probably will start at 6PM CET/Amsterdam time (this is 12AM EST and 9AM PDT). Next week you will receive more details about this webinar.
That’s all for now. Thank you for your great, continues support and till next time!
Kind regards,
Barry & Jaap

This is a good step in the right direction - at least as far as communicating more effectively. I look forward to hearing what DP has to say, AND more importantly, the opportunity for TBL buyers to ask them questions. Hopefully, we'll get some better answers than in the past.

#5263 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

I was #19 - very early in the process. Big supporter. My game was delivered to Cointaker and sitting in their warehouse. ... Based upon that positivity and confidence in the company (confidence based on what they were doing and saying at the time), I chose to allow concrethardt to take delivery of my machine and I swapped for his fully paid preorder at #141ish.
Needless to say, I am not happy about that. Had DP been honest about what was going on, I would still have my machine.

I had forgotten that you had swapped your TBL for a later #. Man - that's such a bummer in retrospect! My condolences.

#5294 2 years ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

... Are you invested in TBL? If not, please stop posting - this is members only thread.

Or at least post something that's productive.

#5297 2 years ago
Quoted from Foxis:

Those of you with partial or full preorders and located within the EU: Why don't you simply leverage the very strong consumer protection laws available to you as EU citizens?

Yes - and then please share whatever info you obtain with the rest of us who are not citizens of EU countries.


Quoted from Foxis:

... As it currently stands I wouldn't order a TBL even if it was in a box in front of me. :/

#5317 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Also, did no one get my picture?

Thanks RTR - it was a welcome respite. I was conflicted in my determination of your exact intent though. Here are my takes:

1) I'm getting a reading of DP's true meaning/thoughts.

2) Trying to understand ... God give me patience with these "Johnny-come-lately" TBL know-it-alls!

3) I have an "Excedrine headache".

#5415 2 years ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

ok so just shy of $12000 USD....that sounds a bit more reasonable and realistic....these 18k-25k for sale adds are super crazy in a speculative market like this....at least with Magic Girl those guys know what they are getting...1 of 21(ish) and no chance for any more machines, etc....with Lebowski its way too big a gamble to pay insane prices...$11k-12k though....I might be on board there...anyone have one and want to talk about that price range please PM me.

I have #59 that I'd consider selling for close to that range. As buyer, you'll need to coordinate shipping with ARA though.

But seriously, I'm betting that few actual current TBL owners will be willing to let theirs go for $11 - 12K right now given its potential future rarity and resultant higher value.

#5426 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

they are going for that money because the buyers know that no more are hitting the streets.

Or perhaps they just recognize a REALLY great game and don't want to wait.

Thanks as always for the positive input NeilMcRae.

#5436 2 years ago

My questions just emailed to Barry and Jaap for their consideration in responding to in next Monday's session (FWIW):

Game Manufacturing
1. How many total TBL games have been built by ARA to date?
2. How many TBL games are currently ready to ship, but are being held by ARA?
3. At a minimum, what has to happen in order for the existing TBL games being held by ARA to be shipped?
4. How does DP realistically propose to build TBL games through a different manufacturer?
5. What is DP’s proposed realistic timeline for building TBL games through a different manufacturer?
6. If DP doesn’t reach an agreement with ARA/Nivoge and ceases to exist, can ARA/Nivoge sell the TBL games and parts that they currently possess?
7. Does DP still propose to proceed with producing a BOP V3.0 game?
8. Does DP plan to continue to produce and provide code upgrades for TBL games?

DP and ARA/Nivoge Business Relationship
9. What are the details of DP’s dispute with ARA?
10. What are the details of ARA’s dispute with DP as you understand them?
11. How much responsibility is DP accepting for its current dispute with ARA?
12. What is DP’s current offer to ARA/Nivoge?
13. What is ARA/Nivoge’s current offer to DP?
14. What is the current status of discussions between DP and ARA/Nivoge?
15. How optimistic are you that an agreement with ARA/Nivoge that results in them manufacturing the remaining TBL Games, can be achieved this year? Ever?
16. Why can’t ARA/Nivoge and DP reach an agreement in which all remaining TBL games are guaranteed to be built and shipped even if ARA/Nivoge has majority ownership?
17. Is DP considering use of an independent third party to resolve their disagreement with ARA/Nivoge?
18. Is DP willing to allow ARA to provide its perspective regarding TBL games production to DP’s customers?
19. If ARA is in the wrong, than why doesn’t DP proceed with legal action against them?

DP’s Financial Health
20. What is the financial status (cash value) of DP?
21. What business assets does DP have?
22. Approximately what percentage of Barry and Jaap’s personal income has DP provided since Pinball Expo 2014?
23. Do Barry and Jaap have full-time income producing jobs outside of DP?
24. Does DP currently have any paid employees?
25. If so, how full-time and how many part-time?
26. Are there any other investors or business partners currently within DP?
27. Is DP considering bringing in new investor(s)?

Future Options
28. What other viable options if any, does DP feel will enable TBL customers to receive their games?
29. What does DP propose that its TBL game customers do to best help resolve the current situation?
30. What guarantee(s) do “Early Achievers” have from DP that they are acting in good faith given that DP has admittedly lied to them in the past?

#5501 2 years ago

Although Jaap and Barry (not surprisingly) only answered a portion of the 30 questions I submitted, I appreciate them providing today's info session. At this point, I feel my best option as a fully vested EA, is to keep hanging in there with them and, at the very least, see how the new contract manufacturer option takes shape.

On a side note, he who shall not be named (on Pinside) has reported in his latest podcast that Rarehero has sold his TBL interest to someone else. If true, congrats to Greg and I hope that he was able to recover as much of his investment as possible! For the rest of us above #51 +/-, the long anxious wait for our TBL continues ...

#5508 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Not sure I should post anymore since I'm not a member....but I got 100% of my $8500.
... I wish everyone the best. I hope everyone gets their money or games.
Peace & Love.

Cha ching - outstanding!

At the risk of being labeled a "fool" (as your buyer was in the aforementioned podcast), I'm gonna keep ridin' that TBL roller coaster!

TBL Roller Coaster (resized).png

#5571 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm glad Rarehero got his money no matter how it was done.

I can't go this far. Congrats to Rarehero on getting his money back, but if he received a refund from DP rather than sold his interest to another buyer, then that's BS in my book.

I fear that if we all adopt an "every man for himself - no matter what it takes" attitude, or DP starts to make policy exceptions, then this game and an equitable solution for all investors will definitely be fucked.

#5654 2 years ago