Quoted from jazzmaster:Could Burningman's new avatar be a hint of things to come from DP?
Not DP, but someone.
(Topic ID: 115360)
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1 month later
I like the top set. More inline with a cheesy bowling alley. Of course I dont even have TBL haha.
Quoted from genex:Looks like I'll be routing my TBL! Wonder if this will be the first one on location outside of the test machine in the Netherlands?
Dont games on route get just tore up? How long does it take to make the $$$ back the game cost? $10,000 in quarters is A LOT of games. I seriously dont know, thats why I ask.
3 months later
3 weeks later
Quoted from bemmett:Is DP still going to be at TPF as of right now for sure, maybe I missed something? Or is the assumption they will be and no one is 100% sure yet?
That's just what has been said in this thread. Good luck with the software. Just because you have a game does not mean you have to stfu as some have stated. You paid for a complete game, everyone who paid deserves a complete game.
You have also handled the vitriol spewed at you with class. That's Rare...
1 week later
Obviously people are not afraid to continue to pre order #2, even as game #1 Is having serious delivery issues. I think it's quite ballsy to announce #2 when DP has not communicated with owners what the problem with #1 Is.
Quoted from karl:2. BOB 25 years sounds like a really, really bad idea in the first place. How many bop fans can there be out there who did not already buy the bop 2.0 kit and still would like to pay 12500 for new one?
Either way, this sucks, big time!!
I dont understand this BOP fascination either!!
Rensh. That is a great insight into the inner workings of Dutch law, thank you.
Everybody needs to remember Rensh is NOT DP, although he is obviously close to them. With that in mind, please don't take your emotions out on him.
Quoted from Nilroc:Well I'm just hanging in hoping it turns out like JJP and WOZ .
Everyone gets their games in 5 years.
While I hope everyone gets theirs sooner, I actually feel like this might be worse than jpop and kulek, as these guys are overseas. Just unbelievable.
Quoted from PeterG:Hard to compare this as Kulek did not have a license, DP does, and JPOP did not have a working game, DP does. Point is each situation is totally different. Again only half a year ago DP had it in the bag, a good 'killer' title, games shipping, and ramping up production. Then money issues with their only and needed partner. The overseas part is in my eyes no issues. I do a lot of work with overseas US, India, all different places. The issue is still communication. Although I live in the Netherlands, that does not mean I can knock each day on their doors. I think that last new letter told the story and there is just no news right now.
I only said that because of there is going to be lawsuits pending. Cant imagine the headache it is going to be for American based buyers to work through the court system, if it comes to that.
Quoted from Rarehero:You got yours, to hell with the rest of us, eh?
I'm hoping what he is trying to say is getting lost in translation.
Quoted from o-din:The easiest way for pinside to resolve all this would be to not allow any vendor to use this site as a market place for items that are not ready to deliver. And on the same note not allow members to discuss said items here.
Are you saying Pinside should protect us from ourselves? No thanks.
1 week later
Quoted from titanpenguin:Let's be honest, we all really kept coming back to see rarehero's rants.
Which game? He got a couple going lol.
1 week later
Quoted from rubberducks:Re: code.
They may not have had a machine to test code on.
If the engineering sample they had with them for the party (post factory visit) in November was returned to ARA afterwards, then Koen may not have had access to a machine to test code on for months. Since they were supposedly shut out completely. Pretty sure the rest of the sample / proto games were at ARA when we visited, in a back office. 3 or 4 of them.
That wouldn't necessarily totally stop work, but it would make it very slow.
If this was the case, hopefully access to TBL test machines and the BoP 3.0 proto are now being allowed, at least in the interim.
Anyone know what the situation on this was / is?
S.N.A.F.U
1 week later
Game over, man.
Yet another promising game goes up in smoke, along with hundreds of thousands of dollars.
1 week later
Quoted from Glockonfire:So a good deal than.
Only 50 exist? How many were planned?
300 I believe.
Quoted from CNKay:5 finished in a box and 3 cabinets and partials stuffed into other boxes. Yeah call it 40. And for a while folks kept saying 50.
I wonder how much ARA can charge daily for storage.
I wonder if ARA will screw up sell one and give DP back the upper hand?
Maybe that is what DP is waiting for?
You just can't make this shit up.
You cant make up the fact someone actually purchased a game that was being held hostage!! Hopefully that only required a deposit and not the full price.
1 week later
Quoted from eggbert52:who have zero self discipline.
You must have been looking in the mirror when you wrote the last part of this sentence.
I also just realized why you are so sure that DP will work out. That would mean spare parts for your TBL, that you are trying to sell at a 100% profit. Wouldnt want a prospective buyer worrying about parts and support, now would ya..
Quoted from Nikonokin:They're still in business, aren't they?! I've said it before...this thread is hazardous to your health.
Lol, I could file LLC tomorrow selling RoostKing Karz. Sure, now I have "a" business, but am I really "In" business. No
Quoted from eggbert52:Do you walk around work saying the type of stupid speculative shit you spew in this thread? I sure hope not.
Eggbert trying to pump up potential buyers for his game, priced at 2x what he paid!! Careful he's got an agenda!!
Quoted from Nikonokin:Totally agree it's big time leverage, you think ARA wants to scrap that shit?! That's a much bigger loss than them biting the bullet and lowering cost. It's a reasonable speculation. And I spoke w/ DP, they are on it, they do care, they are planning to see this through and deliver us TBL. Thank goodness they're not burnt out in all the buzz kill and online uproar yet.
Because buyers who paid more for a game than a good used car created this problem. Hopefully the poor chaps are Ok and have a safe space to get shelter from the mean pinsiders..... Do you actually believe what you post dude? This is ALL on DP.
Quoted from dannylite:Sorry dude but who gives a flying fart whether they took a salary or are still taking salaries. They were then and are still entitled to one now as long as they are working to get TBL's built. And last I checked they are. Of course the pre-order money is for salaries, as well as, a laundry list of other things like White Russians and the penthouse at Expo. R&D and Advertising.
It's all part of the Build. Don't like it now but you Loved it back then.
Just deliver! That's the truth. and if they had kept production Rollin' to the EA's then we'd have the biggest success story in the history of pinball on our fingertips. Well, they fell short (for now) Attack! Attack!
Oh and Just stop it with the automatic 40k Dutch salaries and corporate tax speculations These guys are trying and trying and trying to make this damn machine. The timeline sucks Yeah. but let them keep trying and quit talking salary pay. If YOU were trying to do this YOU would have given up a long time ago. That's the damn truth and it applies to me as well. Keep your day job I suppose and make an amazing pin on the side. Best of luck!
Can you detail the things they are doing to get these built? Seems like you might have some inside information.
Quoted from Foxis:It boggles my mind that there are so many posters in this thread with (seemingly) large pin machine collections that fail to grasp basic business concepts or economics. Did you all inherit money? Or do you live in a large shack with nothing but pinball machines?
You *should* be caring about where the money went and why, especially since there appears to be too little left to build the machines you already paid for. The balance sheet is earlier in the thread, and you can order the rest of the financial info.
I have nothing riding on the DP outcome, so for all practical matters it doesn't matter if DP goes under or not. The only reason *I* post is that I find the story fascinating and hope that people (both in the business of buying and producing machines) learn a thing or two.
But from what I see here, it is more than likely that this ends in tears, and that people still haven't understood how dangerous the preorder/kickstarter business model can be for customers.
But don't worry. This is my last post here as whatever little advice I hoped I could contribute is not making any difference whatsoever. But good luck to each and every one of you. I mean it.
I firmly believe many people here are trust fund babies. How could multiple people have so much extra cash that they lose on 2 or 3 of these risky ventures?
2 weeks later
1 month later
Has anything been addressed by DP regarding the gen1 games. Seems they are going to be left twisting in the wind regarding support.
1 month later
Quoted from titanpenguin:I’m just glad to see they found a way to build all the TBLs. I could give two sh@ts less about the order they come out. Thanks for finding a way DP!
Until new games start shipping, I would hesitate to pat them on the back and congratulate them for finding a way.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:So, is Bernie Madoff involved?
One of the shortest, but most accurate statements to date. How is this not a pyramid scheme?
Quoted from colonel_caverne:what sane person would pay here a TBL 10k€?
Alien standard is around 7500€, the same for Houdini.
Stern pro is around 6500€, premium 8800€
JJP starts at 8800€
if the TBL price is not similar to Alien and Houdini, nobody will preorder it.
If anybody preorders at this point, they are either stupid rich, or just stupid.
Quoted from iceman44:How is it even possible that these guys are still surviving?
Are BOP sales enough to keep rice and beans on the table after all these years?
So new sales and profits thereon are going to fund the remaining 300 build?
Math doesn't add up to me but whatever
Cause it's pyramid scheme and they are probably using the last bit of money they may have as a hail Mary. If this doesn't drum up significant sales/new money I fear they Wong be around this time next year. I sure hope I'm wrong!!
Quoted from o-din:Amazing what they were able to accomplish in 3 years.
Yes, finding 2 different contract manufacturers in 2 different countries, will nary a pin shipped in they past year. Also, EAs going on 4 years. Amazing indeed.
Quoted from delt31:Forgot to post this earlier but when I picked up my Alien last week at cointaker I saw this. Talk about an absolute tragedy. Damaged during shipping!
That is a physical metaphor for Dutch Pinball. What could have been.
2 weeks later
Quoted from MikeHogue:Man that pin looks awesome!
Starting to get excited again!
Exactly what i was thinking.
1 month later
Quoted from Draegermeister:I have a pinball machine shaped empty spot in the basement, waiting on Cointaker's second crate to arrive from China. I am super excited for the machine!
2nd crate?
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rensh:Had dinner with Barry last Tuesday. We had a redactionmeeting of our clubmagazine in which I and Barry participate. TBL was not in the agenda but it was briefly discussed.
So situation is like last NSN. Work in progress so to speak We can only be patient and rest assured, they are doing their utmost best but it takes time and time and time
They have now announced in last NSN their German distributor and this is not the last European distributor. Hint: see on whose booth they are next week at EAG
Naysayers will use this as a Ponzi scheme but your money (if any) will be with distributors not DP. I see it as positive. Distributors care about their reputation and will not easily sign up with a company which they think will fail. For sure they will get more insight as we have and if this insight makes them become a distributor this assures me.
So (to) slowly but surely it’s moving. Keep faith.
Unfortunately it takes more than time, it takes money. If they had money, time could be speed up.
1 week later
Quoted from ToucanF16:Maybe she’s working on the New Silk Road project; China’s veiled attempt to look good in the eyes of developing nations, but in reality these poor countries will be in dept up to their ears for overpriced projects.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/china-new-silk-road-explainer/
So they are striving to be in debt to China, like we are!! Gotta have goals..
Quoted from kapper:that's ok......didn't expect much but more excuses anyways. Very hard to work when you have the flu.
Just get around to things when you feel better Barry.....no rush.
Yea, there are only hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in limbo, waiting for any news, but by all means, lay in bed and get better. Newslettering is hard..
Quoted from Rensh:200 Pins were paid for by early achievers. They were like usd 8000 incl tax. So where are the millions Lebowski ?? Still a big chunk of money, don’t forget to deduct the tax, not millions for sure.
They never said all the money is gone. They said not enough money was left to built all the 150 left early achiever units. That is something else as all gone. If it was all gone tbl2.0 wouldn’t be happening right now. This is also why they are talking about new sales to get new cash in the house to make it tick. Some will call it a Ponzi scheme but here it is implemented to get everybody their tbl.
But it won't, so Ponzi scheme. If they can't care enough to put out 3 paragraph newsletter that takes 10 mins to compose from bed, well, ya...
Quoted from Rensh:Got message that no NSN is expected today, rescheduled for next week.
So, bring out the knifes and forks and shoot the messenger.
No one is shooting you. Having a flu doesnt mean the owners cant bang out a 3 paragraph NSN. Hell, I applaud you for being the only one who does communicate what's going on. If only DP were as motivated to get info out...
Quoted from whitey:Might have to put that 10K towards a Hellcat !
Do it!!! Waiting for 2019, power increase for sure.
Quoted from whitey:Or a 2018 and 20k off Msrp
707 is plenty of horse power
Agreed. I'm just hoping Toxic Orange makes a comeback!! Hellcat, best bang for the buck!!
2 weeks later
2 weeks later
Quoted from TRAMD:I don't care if DP feels there is "nothing to report". This silence just makes it seem like they are avoiding telling us bad news. If there is truly "nothing to report" then nothing is happening. Otherwise at least give the EAs something. Even "waiting on parts", "testing and making notes", "trying to get pre-orders to fund the whole thing", "setting up the factory space to begin mass production", "working out litigation with ARA" or "spending EA money to eat" is something. We want to know everything. No detail is too boring for us. So unless DP is truly doing nothing that has to do with TBL, there is no reason to not give a 5 minute weekly update. They at least owe that to the people that have waited years after giving up thousands of dollars.
Yea right. These guys can't be bothered to knock out a promised 5 sentence NS email a few months ago, cause they were sick or the dog ate the homework or something.
Quoted from Yelobird:Only if you plan to piss on it like DP did with the deposit money..... To the previous poster, there were a rare few on location Until the owner found out rightfully what they were going to be worth so they disappeared quickly. Of the 50 (ish) out there many have found their way to premium collectors with guarded care. IF they ever make these (or someone qualified to do it) they will be a home run on theme alone.
Seems legit.
Quoted from highdef:Possible excuses for their lack of communication:
- Barry got hit by a parked car.
- Jaap's pet rock died.
- Laptop with SolidWorks files accidentally dropped and submerged in a Dutch canal.
- Uber is 2.8x surge pricing from hotel to Xytech factory in Suzhou, so they're waiting it out until the price goes back down.
- Their Uber POOL rideshare from hotel to factory took a left at the fork in the road and now they're somewhere in the Himalayas.
*I am allowed to make snarky comments until this game gets delivered.
Also, they have cold.
1 week later
Quoted from mgpasman:You *can* correct the auto-correct
I'm Shure hes a ware of that.?
3 weeks later
Quoted from titanpenguin:Only on pinside can the demise of one pinball company be considered an issue for the overall business health of another. Heighway’s failure was due to a completely separate set of issues. I don’t see the guys at DP living high off the hog and starting a boat company.
Mismanaged funds and over promising will do DP in as well. If people have money in on T, I'd try to get it back. If the company survives, then buy again.
Quoted from phil-lee:This looks like a great opportunity for Homepin to produce Lebowski. They have the Manufacturing foundation, which is important for parts supply.The established Chinese connection would be key for future production of this machine.
They obviously need an "A" list Title, Lebowski would fulfill this requirement in spades.
I am familiar with the politics around Homepin, I could care less at this point.
It would be great if these machines could be built.
Serious question. What pin or pins has home pin produced?
Quoted from Homepin:That's a very valid question. We ARE currently rolling Thunderbirds pinball off the assembly line - now - TODAY!
Sure, it will be some time before many get to the end customers but we are actually building them NOW! (there are several on site around Guangzhou and Shenzhen).
That's cool!
1 week later
Quoted from frankmac:Played this pin at TPF not worth waiting for at all. So many good game out there.
I don't understand the down votes. This pin is on life support and there are many new pins from reputable companies. If they get their shit together then get back in, but at this point, if you can get your money back, I would..
Quoted from Rensh:And remember, DP has had many offers for extra orders but turned them all down. No extra money was taken besides the first approx 200 EA. If they were in for money they have had plenty of chances to accept more pre order money but they didn’t. First get 300 out of the door they always said.
In DP defense, this seems to be true. They didn't keep taking orders and money beyond what they originally planned. I sure hope they can make it happen !
Quoted from Mr68:It's because his opinion of the game is irrelevant to the dire situation the pre-paid people in. Not to mention insensitive as those people are stuck and cannot get their money out and most have tried. His follow up comment was just as ignorant and so is yours.
Dutch Pinball began taking deposits in 2013 at the height of the pre-orders days. No one predicted this mess at the very beginning and some 50 machines have been delivered. A lot of lessons have been learned by the community with Jpop, Predator and now Heighway Pinball screwing the pre-order people.
Today, armed with that hindsight, you armchair quarterbacks fly in and basically tell everyone how stupid they were and the implication is how superior you are to them.
Again, Dutch Pinball began taking deposits in 2013. I see you were a newbie to Pinside in 2013 and Frankmac joined Pinside much later in 2015.
Maybe you two should thank some of the people you benefit from rather than judge them from your high horse and state the obvious.
My mistake, I wasn't aware that things had turned around, do you have some links of the unboxing and game play vids? And hindsight is a very valuable thing. In hindsight, Predator, jpop, aliens etc appears to be a road map for what's going to happen here. Simply suggesting that a refund might be a wise move isn't armchair quarterbacking, its prudent advice. Lucky for me, I am a noob, as it appears it's the well seasoned members who are possibly out $10,000. Oh, to be young again, right Mr. 68!!
Quoted from RTR:At least you weren't stupid enough to have a machine sitting at Cointaker's warehouse waiting on you and then you traded it for a future machine that was yet to be built!!!!! That guy!! LOLOLOL!!!!!
Oh wait, that was me...dammit.
Now why would you do that?
Quoted from phil-lee:I retired from a major CM. When a project went sour all specialized tooling was scrapped for surplus. Any Trademark items we didn't hold the rights to were destroyed. All remaining parts were auctioned/ scrapped/destroyed.
A class-action suit from all pre-pays staking a claim on remaining machines/parts is the only choice.
Without a singular cohesive voice from those who allowed and made the first machines happen through pre-payment ARA will be forced to destroy any plastics, glass, cabinets and play fields displaying copyrighted artwork.
That is the way it went with us.
Those who paid have the strongest case to claim ownership over the remaining projects ARA holds.
This stock is all that is important, everything else is could be or what if. This stock is all that is tangible and should be saved from the dumpster.
ARA seeks the Rights to the Art, the last viable thing Dutch Pinball seems to hold. Many times these judgments come down to destroying the remnants and starting over.
That's brutal. So whatever complete and partially complete games ARA has will possibly(probably) be destroyed. OUCH.
Quoted from RTR:You should change your name to EternalOptimist!
For the record, I would love for DP to pull a rabbit out of their hat, build everyone's machine (mine first, lol) and save the day.
Then I will apologize to you for being wrong as I eat my avatar. That would be awesome. I just can't look at what has happened and see it going that way.
I was thinking Eternal Downvoter!!! I wonder if he is drawing a salary from DP as the Head of Cheerleading Operations!!
Quoted from RTR:Guys - Your hearts are in the right place, but those are not numbers. Those are crossed fingers and hopes that ARA are the ones that screwed this up. That the court will see it that way. That the court will award DP so much money that it will bail DP out of their sequentially worse and worse business and financial decisions. And that DP will have enough money through this newly found largesse to make everything good for the Extra Aggrieved, oops I mean Early Achievers.
Try working on the most important number imaginable - the number of dollars that DP has left in the bank after their terrible business decisions. That number does not inspire hope.
(edited)
Quoted from RTR:I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I won't be bashing the country, they are the 6th happiest place to live. And we don't need a derail into politics!
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/these-are-the-top-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html
Happy cause they didn't preorder TBL!
Quoted from EternalLife:Did you ever hire someone to remodel your kitchen? Half way through they stop showing up and go work on another contract. Do you spend your remaining money going after them to no avail, and your kitchen remains a disaster. Or do you spend your money on a new contractor, get your house back in order, then go after them later. Priorities I would say drove the decision, nothing more.
Kitchen remodel And multi-million dollar deals with hundreds of OTHER PEOPLES MONEY are 2 different things.
Quoted from EternalLife:I agree that it's pointless to keep going back and forth. ARA was very good in the beginning of the contract, let's hope they will be good for us again and see the opportunity and negotiate with DP to close the ARA contract. Then DP can continue production with xytech and get all the games to the EA's. And a second or third or forth or all they way up to a tenth set of 300 games can be made for anyone else who wants a TBL around the world.
There is money to be made for sure, if all the passion in this thread is any indication. There's nothing in it for anyone if the game dies before it has a chance to hit the market in large numbers. Good luck to all the EA's, and everyone not in but would like to see the game in production and available to purchase... if you will it Dudes, it is no dream..
Sadly, It's already dead. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, which one fills up first?
Quoted from EternalLife:February 24, 2017 date on the letter we can measure ARA's performance as the CM on TBL and see how they were doing.
33% completed, only 16% delivered, +400% on schedule -67% over due and we will guess +25-30% over budget. Numbers are working against ARA, for DP.
Did you read the same letter that we did lol.
Quoted from Rarehero:They haven’t posted here in years. Not sure if that’s good or bad...but honestly it doesn’t help them when people have nothing but feelings and opinions to discuss when the facts are being withheld.
Why post now. They never cared to set the record straight then, and the last NSNL said game over dude. Also, they get colds and are unable to bang out 3 paragragh NSNLs when it matters.
Quoted from Fintan_Stack:Give them even more money? That is your plan? Wow. I really need to get into the pinball making business.
"That's barely a concept!!!!!"
Quoted from tacshose:The way the email is written it sounds like they would be happy to sell TBL pinball machines to DP if DP figures out how to pay for them...
Honestly, DP should put forth a proposal that ARA can sell the built machines directly to someone like Cointaker, and be done.
I didn't see the translation?
2 weeks later
Quoted from Ballypinball:There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds
Source? Proof?
Quoted from Rensh:Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.
To be honest, DP owes way more apologies lol.
Quoted from highdef:The licensor (Universal) may be our only hope in smacking some sense into DP (ie, their refusal of refunds, unconfirmed delivery dates). No one else (including ARA) seems to "intimidate" DP, so I welcome Universal's input/point-of-view on this illegal "wait-and-see" sh*t show.
Why would DP care? They can look into the face of EAs and blatantly lie.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Will anyone admit to being in the “Seattle Seven” and explain the logic? There’s no doubt most of all of them are on pinside and likely read and post in this thread...
No, if there is actually a Seattle 7. Now if there is a Seattle 7, I could totally see them falling for this shit lol.
3 weeks later
Quoted from DS_Nadine:PETA hates you.
Because PETA isnt really about animals, it's about their agenda.
Also that go fund me is a joke lol.
Quoted from Rensh:People keep coming back on the deal proposed by ARA. This was a bad offer. ARA didn’t want to deliver these 40-50 units to us EA.
They wanted their hands freed to sell them somewhere else and than terminate the contract. They wouldn’t care about the storm it would cause in pinball country as it’s not their usual market and they would declare DP bankrupt.
As they can’t proof it DP never said a word about it but Rene at that moment hinted in a
meeting to DP that that was the plan. So Can’t proof it but the fact that ARA wouldn’t settle with full access to all the money should mean something. This money however would only be freed if delivered to EA’s. Selling somewhere else makes more money or do deliver to EAs and accept less money. Than sell the remaining parts also and most of ARA cost would have been covered and they would leave Pinball business for good and leave us EA with nothing. Getting only access to the money would force them in building all the pins. Having control over DP would enable the earlier plan.
Please also do note that ARA has proven broken earlier commitments and agreements. In hindsight ARA was a bad choice
Damned, now I did answer again while I am on holiday. Enjoying view on the Fiji Islands
Let’s further agree to disagree. Hope we will ever know what is the true story. My info is after all 1sided only. It’s only fair to admit that.
You are obviously more than just a buyer. You are completly disregarding the facts as we know them and defend DP so much that you seem to be a paid employee. Is the DP team on vacation with you?
Quoted from kklank:You're defending a "buddy" who took a shit ton of money from a lot of people and now it appears to be all gone.
WHERES THE MONEY??? Where's all the flipping money??!
Quit placing all this blame on ARA. That's crap.
If he's such a great guy and has nothing to hide then have him post his financials on Pinside showing where every penny went. Was Barry taking a 6 figure salary? Do you know?
Show some transparency.
If he's got nothing to hide then let's see it.
I smell a rat that's hoping he won't get sued by a bunch of guys in the states and you're just trying to keep the waters calm by posting its ARA's fault.
I just don't understand why Rensh keeps defending these guys and falling on the sword for them?? Friends don't let friends twist in the wind.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:They're back .... https://www.gofundme.com/seattle-seven Hi Barry and Jaap (Seattle 7)
Status #2 Jul 18 - 4 days since last update. Donations have hardly budged, increasing the pot to 1/750th of the way to goal. Still forecasting a shutdown of the gofundme by September.
These guys have no shame.
Quoted from Yelobird:Don’t think you have to worry about anyone stealing your place in line as the line is now gone and the parks closed.
sorry_folks_parks_closed_by_rossradiation-d8h8aiv (resized).jpgQuoted from Ballypinball:I think you will find the $500euro is what is needed to payout ARA for what is owed and games in their possession.
Then plan is sell them for $20k each which would get $600k us back, then proceed with new production in china.
Only problem is them raising $500k euro? Any billionaires out there?
Aren't these games already paid for by EA's?
I'm not sure why people just can't grasp that this is over?? Hopefully those ARA games get to the EAs, but beyond that, game over unfortunately.
Quoted from Rensh:Good idea.
Guess it will leak out eventually but let’s not make it the trolls with nothing at stake to easy.
Irony
1 week later
Quoted from colonel_caverne:Can someone tell me what is the current situation? Is it getting into production or not?
Thanks
SNAFU. Situation Normal, All eFFed Up.
Quoted from RTR:We really miss posts like this in the private thread. But you can't have everything I guess.
Going back to the buffet, they have king crab legs today!
So it's not messed up? See how this is confusing to us? Should I buy a game now since all is good.
Quoted from foxtj24:I am sure there are plenty of us willing to sell you our pre-order.
I'll wait and see if RTR proclaims that the situation is not still SNAFU. My gut feeling is that I won't be buying one...
Quoted from RTR:You like this thread so much, you should buy 2!
So I'll take that as confirmation the situation is no longer SNAFU and if FUBARd. Sending $$ now! Thanks RTR!
Quoted from o-din:Certainly confirmed. That's a game that was actually delivered to those that paid for it.[quoted image]
Loving the Hot Rod theme!!
Quoted from RTR:PM'd my PayPal information. Please send it friends and family.
Too late, I'm now looking for a SNAFU!
3 months later
Quoted from Rarehero:Around 50 or so went out, plus there are allegedly 40 more new in the box at ARA since 2016 being held hostage.
Code updates are not the problem with TBL. The problem is that hundreds have paid for it & not received it, and people are SILENT on the topic.
People are not silent, they just went to the private thread.
Quoted from Rarehero:Why hide?
There are plenty of people who just lurk who have money tied up in this venture. The story should be public.
From a non-purchaser point of view, I'd love to see the drama as it unfolds.
If I were a purchaser, I would like to see the above BS avoided. If DP requested a secret page, that's one thing. It's not, so owners should be able to discuss amongst themselves, in private.
3 weeks later
Quoted from adol75:6500 for an 8500 public price ??? Even worse if 6500 is € and 8500 is $. No wonder that adventure ended up the way it did. There is no way to build a sustainable business with margins this thin.
Or with business people who have no idea how to run a business! Or answer emails when in bed with the sniffles!
Quoted from Aladdin:Just curious, are there really 40 machines in a warehouse? If so, what will happen to them?
That seems to be the prevailing #, give or take. Most likely destroyed would be my guess after all litigation is over.
Quoted from tacshose:Umm I’m just hoping these games get released for sale so they can be scooped up like Alien games were. Dutch is as dead as Heighway.
Those games are already paid for by Early Achivers(but not by DP). I can't imagine the double slap in the face if they get resold.
Quoted from dasvis:Rare
Did you play Seabeatles at q world?
What about BeaWitched!
Quoted from dung:Wonder why no one is mentioning the fact that the rights might be purchasable by another company? If dutch is bankrupt their assets go up for sale. If someone buy's the rights they can make the game without the need for the R&D. Now, the license with universal may transfer or it might have to be repurchased, but this seems more likely than a bankrupt dutch finding a new manufacturer and the funds to build more themselves.
It's been mentioned multiple times over the last couple of years. Start at page 1, it's a ride that hopefully ends well.
1 month later
Quoted from Dkjimbo:lawsuit update soon? whats the scoop? When can Spooky or Chicago Gaming jump in and take over production here in the US and start pumping these things out for a reasonable price? If they were smart they would be teeing this up now...
When hell freezes over.
1 week later
Quoted from Dkjimbo:No one HAS to face the EA's. The EA's cant even be inspired to stand up for themselves and FACE DP with a lawsuit to clear this ridiculous log-jam of lies, delays and avoidance by DP.
If this thing ever gets settled between ARA and DP, guess what...the EA's are merely collateral damage and get nothing. Until they stand up for whats right and what's theirs, they are not even involved in the discussion. DP has somehow masterfully continued to string them along and kept them huddled around a dim candle of hope. If someone actually exposed the facts I suspect the EA's would not remain so docile and patient...with Zidware, Skit-B, Heighway, all the truth came out and the Band-Aid was ripped off...its long overdue for that to happen here.
And look how well that has turned out, out of a game and lawyer fees. Unless you are rich, throwing good money after bad is not a good ide?
1 month later
Quoted from Rarehero:So when are Barry & Jaap going to give people back their money? My friend is still paid in full. He's not a Pinsider. This silence will not stand, man.
Never. Your friend might as well plan for the worst. If he does, it a bonus. Sadly. These guys suck.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Holy shit if this is real this is an amazing and unexpected news item! I’m day one buyer if i can get from a distributor in box!
While I have no idea if true or not, I doubt 70 would make it to distros. Some well heeled gents with connections are going to get in before they are even officially announced.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:YESSSSS!!!
#59 is FINALLY COMING HOME!
Is that for real? I sure hope so, that would be great.
Well I tried finding ARA on the web without any luck lol. My googlefu is failing me. I was going to straight up email them and ask about the games.
Quoted from Londonpinball:Lots of these games listed in the last 30 days,
Maybe the guys in the inner circle ⭕️ know more then they say . Maybe insider trading ?
Well since they paid for them, I hope they do know something.
Quoted from Rensh:Sorry to confirm that what Kaneda is telling isn’t true.
Wonder where he got his intel, he sounded very sure.
Maybe because Kaneda is a piece of shit thats needs flushed.
3 weeks later
Quoted from highdef:Call me insane, but I would still take TBL over Wonka and Black Knight.
So you have played them?
Quoted from highdef:No but I can explain. I'm a fan of early 90s B/W games. That's what I've owned and grew up playing. For me, TBL has been the only modern day game that replicates the nostalgia of that era. I think the art, music, theme integration, callouts, and layout on TBL blows away current games, but again, that's MY opinion because I'm old-school like that. It is clearly evident DP was going for that same look and feel. Even when DP lost the rights to the original songs, they were still able to pull it off with the cover songs. Not only were they tasteful with the music, but they didn't go overboard with things like RGB lighting or filling the backglass LCD with nonsense.
TBL may be vaporware and DP may be terrible businessmen, but I will always give them respect and props for the game itself.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I just cannot understand how people can judge a game based on a short video though. Isn't pinball about interaction, sights, sounds and oh yes, game play? Would you buy a car based off a short vid, probably not
Quoted from highdef:I feel you Roost, but I can't lie. I put down on TBL without playing it. I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been for all these meddling Early Achievers <said in my "Scooby Doo amusement park owner voice">. I was so blown away by the pics and videos posted here when Expo '14 was happening.
In all fairness, I did fly to Chicago the following year to play the game before final deposits were due. I watched Rensh's videos from DPO '15 many times. What's not to like?
Of course, here we are 3.5 years later and most of us don't have the game we all wanted so badly.
Would I do it again? Most likely not. I do agree that you should play the game in order to know whether you like it, but I don't need to flip Wonka or Black Knight to know if they hold up to TBL. I'd personally take The Dude callouts and "Oye Como Va" over those games any day. Again, just my opinion and I've owned Lawlor and Ritchie games. TBL is the game that got me back into the hobby after a 7-year hiatus, so I have DP to be thankful for it.
Even though this TBL is currently lost in space, I would still own it in a heartbeat. I see it as a statement piece. Nothing against Stern or JJP -- they're actually shipping games!
Another quality post. I am not knocking TBL at all. Would I want JJP or Stern to have this license, nope! DP did it perfectly, except the business side. Its a shame and I like your "Statement game!" as it is quite impressive. I had a sold game for them, but I had to caution my buddy against a pre-order... He wants to buy me a huge steak now lol. Anyway, I hope to play or own a TBL someday, after EA's are made whole..
Quoted from highdef:I feel you Roost, but I can't lie. I put down on TBL without playing it. I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been for all these meddling Early Achievers <said in my "Scooby Doo amusement park owner voice">. I was so blown away by the pics and videos posted here when Expo '14 was happening.
In all fairness, I did fly to Chicago the following year to play the game before final deposits were due. I watched Rensh's videos from DPO '15 many times. What's not to like?
Of course, here we are 3.5 years later and most of us don't have the game we all wanted so badly.
Would I do it again? Most likely not. I do agree that you should play the game in order to know whether you like it, but I don't need to flip Wonka or Black Knight to know if they hold up to TBL. I'd personally take The Dude callouts and "Oye Como Va" over those games any day. Again, just my opinion and I've owned Lawlor and Ritchie games. TBL is the game that got me back into the hobby after a 7-year hiatus, so I have DP to be thankful for it.
Even though this TBL is currently lost in space, I would still own it in a heartbeat. I see it as a statement piece. Nothing against Stern or JJP -- they're actually shipping games!
And to be fair, I bought my first and only pin, new or otherwise, without even seeing it. METLE #199. I'm kinda a fan lol, so take my posts with a grain of salt!!
0415192036 (resized).jpg 1 week later
Quoted from highdef:Good choice and love the Off-Road next to it. I wouldn't mind a MET Roadcase!
Thanks I'm about to restore that Off Road, it needs it. Roadcase is pretty bad ass looking..
4 weeks later
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Are we ready to admit this is as dead and illegitimate as Andrew Heighway and Skit-B? The only difference here is the victims have yet to legally pursue a rightful judgment against these guys. Why are they allowed to remain silent as though there is any hope? Why is there no rationalization of the obvious demise of this project? How much longer are victims willing to wait? And what happens at that point in time?
I'm guessing the logistics of dealing with these jokers overseas.
Quoted from RTR:I will go ahead and write the next update for Barry, I know he has been busy.
Dudes - sometimes the bear eats you and by you I don't mean us, I mean you. Your money is all gone and you are not getting a TBL. We are so so very sorry. We did our best and did everything 100% right. Despite our best efforts (which rocked - remember the parties?!) ARA screwed us, but also you. Mainly you.
If only we had more money, we might have been able to prevail in court, but alas, ARA outspent us and the judge (who doesn't understand pinball or contracts or genius) did not see it our way. We could give you the details, but our attorney said don't. He seemed emphatic on this point. Something like "Never tell anyone any of the details unless you want to get sued by all the customers you screwed, you chuckleheads!". That made sense to us, so no details!!
We tried EVERYTHING to get this done and all of our efforts (which were always awesome) were subverted by others. We really felt guilty living off the achievers (your) money for so many years, but what else could we do? Gotta feed the monkey!! If only ARA would have built the BOP25s!! ARA would not see the truth and sunk the project. ARA hates you and hates pinball. Probably hates us too, who knows?
We will be looking for other ways to continue the project - angel investors, BOP30s, lottery tickets, BOP35s, wishful thinking, BOP40s, marrying very old millionaires - whatever it takes! We love pinball so much and hate to let you down - we will never rest until this is over!
Try not to worry about us, we will be fine. We will each retain a TBL at home for, uh, research purposes as we continue to pursue our dream. By the way - we have started selling BOP kits again! Early Achievers can get 10% off BOP kits (limit one please). Just type in the code HAHAHAHADP at checkout!!
Sincerely,
Barry and Jaap
Don't forget, one of them had such a bad cold, that they could not write a newsletter, while in bed.
1 week later
Some people lol. A fool and his money are soon parted.
I can't believe people think this game, in its current form, will ever be produced. Good luck though, I'm hoping they get the games.
Quoted from adol75:Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?
I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.
Insert "So your saying there is a chance" meme.
Quoted from Mbecker:Thanks for clarifying guys. There’s gotta be another deep root investor out there to save this mess!! Right now sure doesn’t sound like a good gamble to go in for a grand on a hostage game. Sure hope they don’t get destroyed in the end, that would be a shame.
Unless the license is a problem.. And that would be a total shame..
1 week later
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:I thought they had offshored this project to People's Republic of China or North Korea or something.
I guess that didn't happen.
Is there any possibility someone could make this loss into a win? Or is it like a bad Cryptocurrency investment. Lost
Someone could, only takes money!
3 weeks later
Quoted from VividPsychosis:Here is a thought from someone smarter about these things than myself. How does 1 man. Gain access to these 40 pins and ship them out all by himself? He has no staff. No employees, etc...
Anyone care to enlighten me? I’m on board to help but getting sorta spooked on the whole thing.
You are just now getting spooked?
Quoted from Manimal:I'll admit I just scanned most posts as I can't keep up here, but anyone that thinks more games will ever be made by DP is crazy. I do feel bad for JAAP, but his former company is gone and people need to accept that.
ARA doesn't want these games in a warehouse, so I am sure they have worked out some sort of split with DP to get these games and parts sold. All of the claims about generating revenue to make the original buyers whole is pure crap. It has proven to be an unsustainable model time and time again. It is a pure cash grab, and DP needs a good cover to get dealers to purchase the games and to keep the original buyers from throwing burning dung on their door step. They have shown time and time again they cannot be trusted.
Now with that said, I am amazed at the rush of people to buy these games knowing others put out good money for them. I don't know if the original buyers would have any legal remedies, but they should surely be exploring the possibility. And while it is entirely legal for others to rush up to the sales counter....just ask yourselves how you would feel if the roles were reversed and you were one of the early buyers. Horrible Karma at the least.
Mostly though, I am really disappointed in the dealers and the attitude displayed regarding the situation. They know full well people got taken for a lot of money on these games, yet they are willing to just overlook that part of the issue and act like it doesn't matter. Aren't many of the early buyers your customers too? I am (or used to be) a huge fan of Cointaker.....but when you were asked about the early buyers and just replied that they would need to take that up with DP is unacceptable. This is a small industry, and small group that is like a family, and to just discard people that were wronged to "keep these games from going to the European market" is pure BS. It is a cash grab all of the way around....and the claims of "we aren't making much" are BS as well. "Much" is a relative term and really says nothing.
I was not an early buyer....I would have loved to have one of these games at one point, but I would never touch one now unless they were made completely by a different company. This whole deal stinks to high heaven, and I hope somehow the early buyers get made whole in all of this, but it won't be with any new startup of production. That will NEVER happen. There isn't enough money in 200 games to get that going, let alone 40.
All of this seems like going through your grandma's purse for cash after she passed away. Horrible....but I doubt anyone is going to lose any sleep over it. It is only pinball after all.
Nothing personnel, strictly business. DP was a "business". ARA is not a pinball business, CT is a business that sells pinball machines.
And if anyone thinks DP, ARA, or CT is going to closely inspect these machines at anytime is nuts. I have no doubt CT is telling buyers AS-IS. No Warranty, ZERO support.
The pinball community will have to address issues, much like Alien.
Quoted from Manimal:I hate it when people use that term..."strictly business", like it somehow excuses us from having any human compassion. In the end, we are going to be remembered/judged not by our business, but how we are as a human. People can do whatever they want and my opinion is just that....an opinion. But I for one will loose a ton of respect for those stepping over the early buyers.
As a medic, I once worked a case of a heart attack at a blackjack table. The woman fell off of her chair and the casino was crowded. As we were treating this woman, people were placing bets over the top of us because....hey, it was an open seat. I guess that was nothing personal either, but it was just as disgusting.
Ok well not the same, at all. Its not ARA's fault, its not really EA's fault. Its DP's. It does suck and it is unfortunate, but ARA has employees that need to be paid. I have no idea how much ARA is owed, but they deserve what they can get for the money they put up. Or should they just write it off?
Quoted from cpr9999:Kind of predicted this a few pages back; however, 99% of people long forget 6, 12 months down the line. Wish I had a penny everytime I hear people are boycotting something for some reason only to find them back at the business. Just doesn’t work.
Dude, pinball people forget in less time that! Predator, Zidware(Some people buying multiple "pins" based on artwork alone) Alien, and finally DP. Hell, someone in this very thread just a few pages back said something to the affect "Im not getting a good feeling about this now" LOL Ya think???
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Quoted from TigerLaw:I have not kept up with this thread. The 40 games sold out instantly?
Apparently , yes. Some may have gone to Nitro.
Quoted from flynnibus:against shipping damage...
These are gonna be AS-IS
With no warranty and no support.
Quoted from cpr9999:I checked back over last nights posts in this thread and that was not posted anywhere. Did I miss it? Where did you see this? Thx
Seems to be a tactic to keep EA buyers hopeful. A poor, twist the knife tactic.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Nope, TBL is better than Alien IMHO.. also TBL is way better looking as the Alien cabinet and back box are MEH.. again just my humble opinion.
He said Played, not artwork. "Playing Pinball Matter" PPM
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Wanna play the TBL numbers game? Bring a bottle of booze and case of beer. World Population is 7.5 billion. Number of people satisfied with the distribution and sale of 90 TBL pinball machines is ... 1,094
50 EA’s paid $8.5k each and received their game, but these were never paid off at ARA -> Barry and Jaap committed grand theft larceny on the day these games were delivered, when they had no money nor ability to pay for them.
40 orders made with $1k deposit at Cointaker. Sure their purchase price jumped $4k but the game’s value rose more and they have a TBL.
ARA will be paid for work which they had to write off their books. They will receive a $480k windfall for 2019 and ARA’s employees annual bonuses. ARA will not be producing any more TBL’s and will wash their hands of DP once the last promised cent clears their bank.
CoinTaker will fulfill it’s TBL orders and meet their obligation which they they created when they accepted deposits. Hopefully they have dibs on a boatload of spare parts to support owners. CoinTaker succeeds at getting 40 more games into the world before they hit dumpsters and were lost forever. Not entirely altruistic, CoinTaker will earn some lost money back through this transaction.
Jaap is freed from this mess to focus on his health crisis.
Barry gets ARA off his back and sees more games in the world. He also gets spare parts and plans to assemble them himself to earn some running money. That he still owes thousands to vendors and suppliers and 80 TBL’s to EA’s is of little consequence. The license will expire this year and have no value then. The rights, tools and institutional knowledge to build TBL have limited and rapidly declining worth, without a license. This is a deep hole, so expect DP to declare bankruptcy by year end.
1000 people who may come across and play a TBL.
AND if you don’t see your group mentioned above .... you were probably fu@Ked in the A**
Brutally, honest..
Quoted from Yesh23:When will Barry's next update be?
Doubt he will announce bankruptcy.
Quoted from estrader:same here...but if you can get one from cointaker is there a reason to turn it down?
They are long gone.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I’m guessing 40 pass inspection and maybe more?
[quoted image]
The inspection is going to go like this. Opens box. Is there a pinball machine in there? Seals up box.
I am sure DP, ARA, CT have or will make it clear these are AS-IS, with no warranty implied or expressed.
Quoted from whitey:This is a half a million dollar deal
Coin taker is a legit business, there not gonna crate up 40 Munster pros !!!
This isn’t there first BBQ
Anyone that wants to see this game be made again or loves pinball hopes that everything goes well .Having this go bad doesn’t benefit anyone. After going to court I’m guessing a court system is overlooking this with a fine tooth comb
Think about it ? You actually think he’s shooting from the hip with 500K
Its not cointaker on the hook, its Barry. He needs this to happen in the worst way and I cant imagine he will be unboxing each game, play testing etc. Maybe and hopefully I am wrong. Id love to play one some day!
Quoted from VividPsychosis:As someone who spoke with cointaker, none of you have any details about how this is working or what the insurances are to the people buying the games. It’s almost comical. I get you are all pissed but seriously, none of you have it right. It isn’t my place to tell you either so don’t bother asking me. Those that did get a game and spoke with CT about the finer points will know what I’m talking about and the steps CT is taking to protect customers. Y’all need to chill. Melissa is one of if not the best person in the pinball industry in my eyes and she always looks after others best interests.
So you are saying there is a warranty, parts replacement and a full inspection before they ship, or after they hit the US? Doesnt seem like there is much in between what I said earlier, and that. Sorta all or nothing.
Quoted from RTR:Not sure why that cartoon is in my post that was from a post in the other thread. It is a live view of DP's accountants creating the funding plan...
They have accountants?
Quoted from VividPsychosis:Just remember, when all the EA’s get their games in the future. The 40 buyers of these games from ARA will happily take that thank you.
Based on?????
Your psychosis is very vivid, the name fits!
Quoted from VividPsychosis:Y’all need to be more positive.
So who is making the games that EAs will be getting?
Quoted from Mr68:The 40 buyers of the ARA games are key to the EA's ever having a chance at restitution. And I'm glad they bought them to give this effort a chance. But let's not pretend they bought those games out of charity for others. They bought them out of self interest.
How? Isnt the money from this sale going to be used to satisfy the DP debt to ARA? Nobody in their right mind is going to work with DP again. I mean, who doesn't hope its going to happen? Please see RTR meme above.
Quoted from Mr68:That's a question for Barry and hopefully his podcast will shed some light it. I'm just hopeful that he finds a way and EA's will be taken care of.
Disagree. If games are boxed and sitting inside Cointaker or Nitro's warehouse for immediate shipping, they will sell and I think sell very well.
By working with them, I mean funding to get this off the ground and in production. Obviously people will buy the game if they have the opportunity, just not pre-order, for the most part. There are still those people out there though.
Quoted from Mr68:I'm glad you agree with me.
Seems you misunderstood the big picture outlook that I meant, but yes, if they show up for sale, they will fly off the shelves. Problem is, nobody is going to work with DP and manufacture these pins. Sadly.. Cause i know 2 Instabuys.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:[quoted image]
Wrong, at least 2. They aren't interested in a project or no support though. They want to order, deliver and play. With the usual tweaks of course..
Quoted from Mr68:No, I understood and I answered you the first time.
You might be right. In the pinball world, a podcast can change everything. In the real world, unless there is real$$$ injected, its not happening.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Sorry dude, nobody is paying $12k for TBL if it were a full run 3000+ machines when better LE’s are going for much less. This machine is only $12.5K because there’s only 40. Basics of supply and demand my friend
Who says they have to be $12500? They needed that # to satisfy debt on these 40.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Which is precisely why you sue him. If Barry doesnt have to answer you truthfully or in full then why would he? He just wants to be out of debt himself meaning personally and DP wise because yes lawsuits can spill over personally if any guarantees were made I would imagine there are now. Barry must be sooo happy everyone has just laid down and let him do exactly what he wants with parts and machines that in any other circumstance, would not be his to sell again and again. In business you put a suit in to get answers, truthfully in full answers. What you do after that is entirely then based on facts not Barry and friends polished info they want you to have.
I would guess the reluctance is because he is not stateside?
Quoted from Rody:Regardless of future production prospects, I hope that there is support for those with games...sad to see these two examples at Sunshine folded up for years with little hope of needed parts.[quoted image][quoted image]
Wow That sucks. Expensive and darn good paperweights!! I do not believe there will be any support avaiable for to 40 inbound switches either.
Quoted from mavantix:Yes, yes I think they would...
Ask that another way. You think ARA would release 500 G's worth of pins without payment received?
The didnt release them before, why would they release them now... And I still think Barry is just going to do a cursory inspection. "Yep, there is a pinball machine in the box, tape er up!"
Quoted from wcbrandes:Can someone post this video please, I was not there
Cheers
Here is "a" video shot in a penthouse. Not sure if this is the party.
Quoted from ToucanF16:Looks like one kickass party! Would’ve loved to be there.
That gal at the beginning was gorgeous lol
Quoted from pinballslave:My recollection of events was that ARA asked for 1000euro more for each game, DP refused to pay, and after that ARA proposed a way forwards by a hostile takeover, which they also refused... I don't think these two were simultaneous things...
Don't the 500k euros worth of parts they are getting from ARA count as assets?
I've done some speculative maths also (yes, the 's' at the end of 'math' was intentional ) and if we assume the parts for the next 100 games are 90% there (financially speaking, not number or weight!) and assuming the total cost to make each game (parts wise) is 6000euro, 10% of which is left to pay) then to make the next 100 games will cost 60k euro, they sell for 10000euro each = 940k euro profit. Let's say the next 100 games worth of parts are for 50% of the cost means that the next 100 games will cost 300k to make and they also sell for 10k each means another 700k profit. Total profit with zero parts left is 1.64million. This should be enough to pay the rest of the ARA debt plus the new manufacturing set up (which will be lower than usual due to massive inventory of parts already made) and have plenty of cash left for making the parts for the next batch of games... roughly speaking... fire away!
Depends on the parts missing. Couple of screws, easy. Entire bowling mechs, not so much.
Quoted from pinballslave:Of course... the speculation that the first 100 parts covers 90% of a machine covers that.
Come on guys, there must be a better counter-argument than that! I've painted a positive picture for the future of DP there... where are you?? Don't disappoint me with your counter attack!
You are just lumping parts together as if they are the same. Hell, they could have 99% of the parts, but if 1% is the bowling alley that is missing, they might as well be at 1% of the parts needed. Not not going to happen.
Quoted from whitey:Games are shipping soon
First step to get this going again?
Money. If you have a spare million, let DP know. If not, just money from someone else.
Quoted from foxtj24:EA games will never be made. Agreed they should send us all our rug and EA plate with our number on it as a last big Fuck you to us EA's
I want to up up this and downvote this at the same time I am so sorry you early Achievers got fucked like this period.
Quoted from whitey:Ok thats like your opinion man,but it really did tie the room together
Can we stop with that quote, it got old like 3000Xs used ago.
So Barry and Jaap are officially bigger scumbags than JPOOP and Kevin Kulek. They managed to resell the same games two times. What a group of complete and total con artists.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Oh, is that sad people there because TBL has been released to the public?
[quoted image]
Just another commiefornian acting like you do. Douchy
Quoted from Coindork:It seems I am limited as to how many down votes I can give in a certain time period?
I had no idea.[quoted image]
I say we just dont feed the trolls. We know who they are...
Quoted from Time:I saw something again today I hadn't seen in a few years.
https://www.pinballnews.com/games/biglebowski/index4.htmlIn the included video, Ara spent a lot of time talking about how "lean" the production would be. IE, Just in time manufacturing of parts. They did say some stuff from overseas had to be ordered in bulk (rugs, playfields and Williams mech I assume), but it seemed like a lot of the metalwork was done just before production. That's making me worry a little bit with regard to stockpiles of parts. If they did have lean production, they might have used up much of the stock in the 40 games already. I'm just so anxious to here what parts are left.
Sorry - don't mean to add to speculation here. I have no facts. Just re-watched the old video and noticed that.
I'm looking at this video from June 2016 to see what Ara had for parts stocked. Looks like 300 rugs. Don't see a lot of bowling alley mechs:
It waa exactly the bowling alley where I doubted they had enough to of them to make 100 games. Maybe 4 or 5..
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I typically enjoy listening to Ben Heck and this is a worthwhile podcast episode. Unfortunately, like numerous others, Ben is not totally up to speed on his TBL facts and much of his discussion with Kaneda is just speculation.
Why would Ben appear on Kanedas podcast? I hope he took a shower afterwards.
Quoted from RTS:Why do you think people hate Ben Heck?
The down votes could be for a condescending comment that "he's a man worth listening to."
I thought Special K was a boy, since he still slept in underroos and has a superman banky?
Quoted from Concretehardt:Nope they have “truckloads” of original parts to use or as I was told roughly 50 to 100 games worth of original parts that were produced using the original DP/ARA design. If DP does build more games they will be using existing original parts which are the same as the 80 to 90 games already produced. I truly hope all EA’s get their games.. especially RTR!
If anyone thinks the original EAs are getting those games, well, ill eat the Crow that RTR is supposed to eat!! No way all or half of the games are going to the EAs. If, somehow THOSE 50 to 100 games produce enough $$$ for additional games, then maybe, just maybe EAs become whole.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:One of the several parts of a build that I would doubt exists in inventory. Without that part, no new games will be made.
Thats exactly what I was saying a few days ago. One poster keeps saying that if they have 90% of the parts, they could get to 100%. If they don't have the bowling mech, they might as well have 0% of any other parts.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Does anyone actually see a mathematical way forward to fulfill the EA buyers who have been screwed? What is the ACTUAL cost to produce a game now and who is going to produce them? Even if the parts are "paid for", the labor to build, the tools to build, the space to build, palettes and boxes, none of that exists or is accounted for! And what about the shipping costs? just a direct pass-through to the buyers I suppose?
Surely they do not have all parts on hand. And what about the cut that CT or nitro take? So lets play the game - if it costs $5000 to build one of these new machines with parts on hand for all the extra costs, they sell for $12,500, CT takes what, $2000? So they need to sell how many to start to build a war chest to actually pay out of pocket to build the EA games and send them out for free? Is that realistic at all???
No, without a serious cash infusion, this game is dead.
Who knew when this that Barry and Jaap would be considered even bigger scumbag than Jpop and Kulek. Wow..
Quoted from JimB:It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.
Put the bong down.
Quoted from bladerunner:Thank you my friend, so the 40 games being sold are the ones repossessed by the factory, of the original batch?
That makes it even more crooked. So the cabinets are the same too? Sorry to ask but I just cannot my arms around the whole thing. And thank you for answering my questions, regards.
Not repossessed, DP never paid for them so ARA kept them after they were sssembled. Yes. Barry and Jaap sold the same game twice, took salaries and threw huge parties, all on EAs dime. Total crooks and con artists.
Quoted from Rensh:ARA is indeed on holiday but DP isnt. The first 20 pc’s are ready for shipment and yesterday evening Dutch time DP received the shipping Bills from CT. So shipment will be very soon.
And testing was 100%. All have been unboxed. Firmware upgrade is to be done by the owners however (was never promised by Barry) but the newest release will be out soon. Focus was on getting games out.
So dont believe everything said in this thread.
So new owners of the games Barry flipped get EA plaques?
Quoted from fanuminski:removing EA pinball plaques is hard
Seems to be easy money, it bought them penthouse parties, booze and semi-rockstar status in the pinball world by screwing the plaques on. Now they are removing them, repackaging them, and reselling again. That's easy money.
Quoted from flynnibus:Then create a thread here...
[quoted image]
Because the original, relevant question, never gets answered publicly. And if you make it public, you get banned lol.
Quoted from Rensh:Do you know how does sounds to me as an EA??
He, I can help you EA’s but you know what, middle finger to you guys.
Not helping DP equals not helping EA after all.
If you really can help but are stopped by the conclusion that Barry is a lying m*therf*cker why don’t phone him and get the intel direct from him. Or are you the kind of person who talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk .....
What's his phone number?
Quoted from knockerlover:Actually I would reach out to ZNET and find out what information would be required to start banding together the EA's to make a case.. Then create a google form for those interested to fill out that relevent data. Then find an attorney possibly local to Netherlands to help with the case.
My opinion though, is that now that the ARA games are sold.. the EA's have lost their greatest leverage. Pretty soon Barry will be making hydrofoils with Andrew Heighway.
Andrew is nowhere near the criminal Barry is turning out to be. Andrew will be kissing the "Don of all pin cons" ring soon.
Quoted from Nilroc:Please go back to the cave you came from. Thank You.
You are very annoying and add absolutely nothing to this thread.
Hes a proven troll. Look at the Deeproot thread for further proof. Mods should do something about this joker.
1 week later
Quoted from Draegermeister:I'm totally for non-refundable partial deposits, with a product delivery window clause. Partial deposits get assembly lines moving faster, while full deposits remove the hustle incentive from the upstart manufacturer. That's what we had in this case, as full deposits created a pile of money that wasn't managed well. Partial deposits make upstarts hustle to complete games, because they get paid on completion. The games rolling off first have to have good quality, because we'll document all of it.
Separately, we could debate if DP deserves this third/fourth chance. But, non-refundable partial deposits ensure both parties are motivated to get the transaction completed positively. It separates tire kickers from real buyers if there's $1,000 at stake.
You are the perfect "New and improved" "Under new management" customer . Send in your $$$ asap!
1 week later
Quoted from MikeHogue:The demand for this game is there.
As an EA I quickly emailed Barry willing to spend another $12,500 to get a game.
My game build is 158. Still outside the 25 to 40 games built from parts. EA must been all over this proposal! Will I ever see my game? Who knows, but if the funds keep coming in, it is possible.
All I can do is to try and be positive.
And rich. Who pays 20 large for a mass produced game(in theory) ?
Also, when is he going to give up this "dude" shtick. Give us real No Shit News, will real transparency and no shit.
Thirdly, if people this scheme will work, well ..... Get in line and front $12,500
Quoted from pinballslave:I guess my motivation for my 'non-condemning' posts comes from fear of losing a load of money... the only way I see out of this is if DP survive, so posts that condemn DP and rally enthusiasm for suing them (which would obviously kill them if successful) makes me see my hard earned cash vanishing... so I want to try and make that not happen by trying to shine a positive light on things... I guess... as for my collection, that's a bit of a bummer because they're pretty much ALL in storage!! 1 game is set up at my wife's flat, which we hardly go to because it's in another town 4hrs drive away, and another is set up in a friend's house... I've built a massive games room attached to my house that I've just finished renovating, but I'm not allowed to have a game in the actual renovated part of the house... and the pinball area is far from finished... "why should we have a game in the house when there's room for 100 games downstairs" is the argument... ah well, at least not having TBL yet avoids another frustration of not having that game set up to play!!
Ah, the age old "throw good money after bad" gambit. Throwing good money at this project, will always be bad.. IMO
Also, why cant you setup your games in your dedicated game room, or your own house? No wonder im single lol. Logic and balls. A potent combo taking down western women daily.
Quoted from pinballslave:That's a very good point of course... there were quite a few staff on board during the design phase at least, maybe Barry/Jaap kept them on the payroll longer than they should have done...
We'll probably never get a clear answer to where the money went, but I honestly don't think it was theft... to be honest I think the hype at expo where, as Mr Heck put it, they were "lords of all creation" gave DP an over-secure feeling of invincibility... like they couldn't fail, no matter what... as a consequence they probably spent too much money on all sorts of stuff... the prototypes themselves were, I understand, very expensive to make, not to mention hauling them around the globe... then there was the massive set up cost at ARA which was supposed to be spread across at least 300 games, not 55... or 95, however you look at it... many unexpected delays with possibly a full head of staff draining the finances... Philgate, licencing issues, John Goodman callout issues, getting the music re-made... quite simply I think they underestimated the costs involved and overestimated their ability to ride through these issues..
I believe and hope that Barry has got his wake-up call now, and will proceed with extreme caution from now on...
The game itself is packed with stuff making it also too expensive to make!! I firmly believe Barry is going through everything with a fine-tooth comb this time... I know he is dedicated to seeing this through and not letting the EAs down... despite what others might think...
Just in time, to be too late. Convenient..
Quoted from MPRAMONE:What do you call a shipment ? something like 30 games in a container ?
I think it is 40.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:So there are 67 weeks between now and the end of 2020. We know the Dutch take an exorbitant amount of vacation so let’s say 60 weeks. He’s got parts to make 200 games supposedly. That’s 3.3 games per week starting next week to meet the goal. That number per week obviously goes up every week. It’s taken Spooky 5 years to ramp up to 10-15 per week.
Can someone explain a viable path forward? Seriously. Not even talking about money. Just simple logistics.
Its already been covered, There is no way he could get this done, without a large cash infusion and a contract manufacturer. Short of that, not happening.
Quoted from flynnibus:He already elaborated elsewhere -- he's essentially having to pay for medical care for his inlaws unexpectedly. He's also been putting up his cars for sale..
That's not just flipping TBL... and his cars make a TBL look like a used napkin.
Its undude like to just jump to assuming he's trying to take advantage of the moment.
He was such a douche earlier, now hes a saint? If he had real bills, he would ask for the same amount of $$$ that he paid for it just to get it sold, to pay "medical bills". Hes not. Karma for being such a douche previously?...
Quoted from flynnibus:Money they set aside for a TOY... and lost years ago... how long are people going to carry that cross around and ask for handouts in return?
Losing money doesn't give you any right to flail around at everyone and be judgmental... especially when they are just wrong.
Seems if it were nearly anyone else, it wouldnt be a problem. The way this dude was so undude like when pontificating and lecturing EA's, is why he is being called out.
Quoted from fosaisu:I imagine Project Pinball would be happy to help him raffle off his TBL if half the proceeds went to their charity, but (understandably) that’s not what he’s looking to do. So you might get some ideas from checking out their operation (how to make the draw transparent, for instance) but I doubt they’d want to be involved with a straight up no-charity raffle.
He'd be better off selling it for what he paid for it since he needs immediate funds, for a family emergency. Seems he is still holding out for something more.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Unbelievable. Says he’s going to flip it. Then says he won’t flip it because he doesn’t think it’s right and a $7500 profit isn’t worth the weight on his conscience. Then waits until several other people flip it and lists his. Typical.
Iceman and Special K are buddies, so take his post with a grain of salt.
Quoted from fosaisu:He reported getting a $19k offer, but I agree he’s better off taking that than running an illegal raffle.
And he didnt take it? Lol, some emergency...
2 weeks later
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:you’ve undersold him. Barry is also Marketing, Purchasing, Legal, Banking, Office Manager and Forklift Driver.
Also, I.T. and janitor.
Quoted from Londonpinball:I am worried about employe theft now more then ever
Well, there is a precedent!!
Quoted from Micky:Poor Canada!
Anything is better than the current office-holder!
Quoted from Pinhead1982:I am EA#105. The game is New money - yep I’ve bought it twice!
LOL.
Quoted from Richthofen:Holy shit. Is this scam essentially going to happen twice then?
Look, let’s be generous and assume Barry is capable of manufacturing hundreds of TBLs on his own for cheap. Even if he could do that, how exactly is a second game going to help? It’s going to distract him and push out TBL creation even further (past the license expiry.) This is madness.
The guy above me happily admitted to buying 1 game, twice. So yes, there are some real winners out there and a fool and his money are soon parted.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Nearly another month gone and no additional games out the door, no additional updates, no additional clarity, no communication....what's going on?
What do you think is going on? I assume you aware of the history of this company. I mean, the guy sold the same machine 2 times. Not really a reputable situation going on here. Short answer: SNAFU
Quoted from fosaisu:I'm not so sure -- given the past history, who is going to believe more words from DP at this point? If they actually have the wherewithal to produce games, just produce the games already and that will speak for itself.
Thats why he stated that Barry could post some pics of games being built.
Quoted from fosaisu:If DP is able to ship a game or two a week, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?
And conversely, if DP isn't shipping any games, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?
I guess you are right, Since they aren't shipping and aren't posting pics, there is zero progress.
Quoted from wlf_:Us folks in the midwest are too polite, if they're knowledgeable enough to know to check out TBL, they know camping on the hot new thang is a d move and should have freed up the game after a few if you're hovering. I go with a polite "ope, can I play when you're done with your credits?", and can kinda get less polite thereafter, haha. Play a few, free it up. Sharing is caring!
Can we still put up quarters???!!!!!!
Quoted from flynnibus:So its been over a month since this game was delivered. Have there been any other batches since barry went in-house?
There is a wholenother thread going on which detail the many unboxings and thrilled costumers.
www.kidding.com/TBL_unboxings
Its going to be shutdown, due to lack of replies.
Quoted from ToucanF16:They need the money to finish their current model.
They need money to pay salary, as is required by law over there, apparently.
1 week later
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:Outsourcing sub assemblies well help speed up production as will hiring additional staff. I'd guess that all EAs will have their TBLs by 2021.
Where is the money coming from?
Quoted from Coindork:I think if you can pick up a working one for around a grand its probably a descent deal.
Seems like the market price is in the $1200-$1600 range and they are starting to get harder to find.
The gameplay is fanatic and its really fun.
There is one for sale in Phoenix for $1100
1 month later
Quoted from bounoun:I still think selling 300 new units is definitely possible, dont forget, there is a lot of interest both in the Netherlands / Germany for this machine. Combine that with the US and you have a market for this machine.
At what price though, and who in their right mind would send money in advance.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Lamberger:I know of about 4 people that have received games after payment to cointaker.. if I was to guess, i would say 40 built so far... just guessing tho. if that's the case, 300 is definitely doable, efficiency will just keep getting better over the year.
I think licensing could still be an issue.
Quoted from Lamberger:But I think once the game is sold before the licence is up, they can still build it into 2021. That was my understanding. So that would include the EA's that already paid, but i'm sure they can get an extension worst case, they already got this one. Dp wants to keep going, or else they would have sold out and moved on.
Wouldnt that mean people would have to pre-order? No way that is going to happen, for the most part.
Quoted from JodyG:It's $12,000 fucking dollars, not a $2 matchbox car. I'd tell them to shove it if they can't be straight with me when it comes to spending that kind of money.
But, but DREAM THEME
1 week later
Quoted from phil-lee:By shipping one EA game Dutch would enter into admitting/proven Liability for all of the rest.
Yea it would seem problematic if some EAs get games, ans others do not.
Quoted from kidchrisso:I have heard from a reliable source that it has been 10 games per month. Wish they would have bit the bullet 5 years ago with production in house...who knows, they could have been on even level with Spooky by now. Glad to see they are getting them to the finish line.
DP is farther from the finish line, than when they started production at ARA! I do hope they make it though!!
1 week later
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:I'm new to this thread and a HUGE TBL fan. I am asking out of curiosity, not looking for a fight:
What is the perceived plan for DP? Sell 3 new games a week, and send a 4th game to an EA to make up for the pre-orders? At 12.5k each, that's a lot of extra scratch to help DP make up for lost time. Do I have that right, or do you feel it's something different?
Their is no plan, its a complete clustereff.
Quoted from Roostking:Their is no plan, its a complete clustereff.
Ok, so those 2 who downvoted me, whats the plan?
Quoted from jeffro01:The plan is very clearly laid out multiple times in this thread. I downvoted you because I presume you know this and are just trolling to be disruptive... Assuming for one moment that you somehow missed the plan laid out here, again multiple times, the goal is to build/sell enough games so that DP can build and deliver the EA machines that have already been paid for but never built/delivered. If you're looking for specific times/dates then I can't help you there but otherwise there is a clear path forward.
Jeff
So, no real plan. Those sound like admirable goals, as you say. Whats the PLAN to make it happen?
2 weeks later
1 month later
2 weeks later
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:That apron is beautiful. Is Barry going to make a "non achiever" edition as previously suggested?
QSS
Not to be too flippant, but Barry is trying to build a few games a month, let alone multiple aprons that are game dependant. Although, that might not be a bad Idea for DP to put this out there, if not to make a new shiny something to distract.
2 months later
Quoted from Yelobird:I am sure the Fun in building these will change when it comes time to build the hundreds of 0 dollar sales games owned (EA's). Working for nothing Can get boring....
And this is why this guy needs to read the whole 240 pages, lest he look naive in this thread.
1 month later
Quoted from Mr68:I only know Rensh from here but he seems like the kind of man we all would want as a friend. His comments throughout this thread have been invaluable.
Rensh. Dinner and many beers my gift should we ever meet.
And he has taken quite a bit of heat, when he doesnt even work there. Glad he stuck around!
3 weeks later
Quoted from cmdestin:Thanks for the heads up. I put down my deposit yesterday - totally cool waiting 6-8 months which is what Melissa(?) at Cointaker quoted me. She said they are putting out about 20 games a month which would put me at 8 months wait - but they are trying to ramp up production which could lead to a wait as short at 4 months. Figured I'd share. Thanks again - excited to be on the list.
Refundable I assume.
Quoted from highdef:I think it's great that Barry is ramping up production and continuing to push out games as fast as possible. This helps EAs get closer to their game.
The question is whether TBL will continue to be worthy of $12,500 price point in this current landscape. We've already seen a few cases where TBL buyers were underwhelmed with the game after unboxing. Different strokes for different folks, but at some point, people are going to question the real value of this game beyond its limited availability. This is why I hope DP releases updated code sooner vs. later. I feel that DP needs as much ammo as possible after JJP set the bar this week with Guns.
I'm not being a naysayer by any means. I want DP to pull through. Updating the code could help generate more NIB sales.
Quoted from Yelobird:Only a Question.... Will DP ever confirm anything like the software question, the license, the numbers, with Customers or are you the only one he will ever speak to? Seems like you are being used for a "we never committed to that" position way out. Not complaining just feels like everything from this company has to be second hand when the Buyers are asking rather simple questions. Just a viewpoint.
Updating the code and informing potential/current customers whats going on might also sell more of these. I just think its going to be hard moving forward at that price point. Some bad ass games have come out since this and the GnR CE at the same price? Ya...
Quoted from nwpinball:I think it's impossible to compare the Big Lebowski with Guns n' Roses, they are totally different themes that appeal to different people. There are a lot of people that don't care for the GNR theme at all, and while the game looks pretty, people are buying it before they have seen how it plays, they could be dumping it like The Munsters in a few months. There are always people attracted to the newest shiny game and will buy it before they've played it, I think that's a pretty select market though and they already either have a TBL or have already decided they don't want to buy one. I'm sure Dutch can sell 500 of these if they keep making them, that's not a huge number and right now they still have a good sized waiting list.
Its not impossible, as there are certainly buyers interested in both pins. Question will be, which one gets the $$$. I think GnR CE are sold out anyway, so $12,500 vs $9500. As far as GnR being a stinker? Highly doubtful. All other JJP pins are a blast, even if the themes dont resonate with people. (Dialed in). TBL has some major headwinds...
2 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from Drew13:I'm not exactly sure and I won't be in the office until Friday, but it was around 14 weeks
Do you have an arcade in Denver, and will this be going there?
Quoted from Drew13:We have a private warehouse arcade you can rent for an event (company party, mitzvahs, bachelor/bachelorette, etc) and it will be available there to play.
www.funfactorydenver.com [quoted image]
Shoot, rules me out then. Looks cool though.
2 weeks later
Quoted from timlah79:Has anyone heard from Melissa/Cointaker in the past week or so? I've got 2 emails and phone calls out to her and have heard nothing back in almost 2 weeks. She's normally very responsive. I was supposed to get my non-EA version this month (I preordered in Jan 2020). The last correspondence I got from her was about the DP move to the new facility which may cause a delay and that "there are a few orders in front of yours." While I can totally understand the delay due to the new facility move, I don't understand why no one is responding to me . I also have not been told where I am in the list or how many are ahead of me. Has anyone else been given an actual delivery ETA by Cointaker for Nov or Dec or have any in
Probably because hundreds of others are asking the same questions, and they cant answer that.
Quoted from cpr9999:Best way to run a business especially when ordering expensive toys - no communication!
Wonder how many people will order from other distributors for their future purchases?
Hopefully people are learning to quit funding these failed startup! Produce a pin and have it ready for sale.
Quoted from timlah79:Even if they can't answer the question, they should reply to emails and phone calls saying so. No communication is terrible business practice. Sounds like I'm in the same boat as others. It's good to know that I'm not the only one but also very concerning. If you work in customer service or sales, you reply to your customer / buyer even if the reply is "no update." You shouldn't just leave them hanging. Just saying...
If you have read this entire thread, and still put money down on a pin that has no guarantees of making it across the line, you must not be too concerned. Not trying to be a jerk, but the issues, while being worked on, have been there for many years for all to see. Id love to have a TBL someday.
1 month later
Quoted from Rensh:Serious? You think without pinside there would be no pinball? Believe it or not, there is world outside of pinside
Another option could be ofcourse the new owners don’t care to post on pinside. I know plenty of people who don’t post their new purchase (stern, JJP, DP,..) on pinside. More don’t than do.
Yes, seriously. Where are the facebook, instagram unboxings? Seems TBL owners would be happy to show progress.. why would they not want to help DP?
At the very least, DP could show TBLs leaving the factory, no?
Quoted from TRAMD:I know there are other ways someone could find out about pinball other than Pinside but I would imagine the intersection of people who will use their money and time to go a pinball event and Pinside users is pretty high. But I've been wrong before and will be wrong again.
At the end of the day, you would expect DP to post pins leaving the facility. Anything to inspire confidence.
Quoted from cpr9999:They never really have.
I am sure more focused on the move.
Rensh was posting what he sees - which helps.
Actually they did when they packed the first full container heading to the US, as well as pins staying in Europe. Anyway, just surprising games are being delivered, but no one is posting about it.
1 week later
Quoted from Reznnate:I've been having the same problem since receiving my game in March. I've honestly never been able to play a proper game yet because all attempts to adjust those switches either prevent the bounce/auto-hits OR they prevent the car from opening/stopping properly.
Barry has offered to send a pair of the new/improved switches but after 3 months, I'm still waiting.
Hopefully, you arent surprised? Its part of the TBL experience!
2 weeks later
Quoted from turbo20lbs:SMH, none of this shit makes sense. TRAMD, I get, he had special circumstance before the $1000 deposit thing. Timlah, no idea. How has he not paid in full yet? when I have in Sept, and Tim ordered months before me?
toucanf16 any update? I don't have the heart to email CT anymore, just to hear arbitrary replies, guesses, whatever you want to call it. NOTHING they have provided has been accurate this whole year.
Lol. Have you not followed this story from the get go? If not. TL;DR you may or may not get a pin, but rest assured, it will be years from know if you do.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:You're clueless.
Cool, when have you put down 100% and what is your delivery date? I bet you can answer 1 out 2.
I cant wait for the unboxing, cause lord knows, they are happening at a furious pace!
3 weeks later
Quoted from cpr9999:Ask your distributor why so long?
Why did that take the money so far in advance?
Used it on GME!
Quoted from waldo34:Yes, Cointaker. Heck my last email from them I was told 2-3 weeks. The email before that was a few weeks more. Now today, a verbal 4-6 weeks. I really like the Cointaker team but my hair is falling out with this deal. I don't get it.
Should have read this entire thread, you would have known what to expect.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:Once again you're clueless. I got my game about a week ago and flipped it....you know the one you said would come "years from now" if ever? You can crawl back into your hole now.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/110320
Whos talking to you. Nobody.
Quoted from waldo34:Thanks but in the 18 months on the waiting list before Cointaker asked for payment i read it twice.
And you still didnt comprehend, thus you don't get it and your hair is falling out.
Anyhoow, good luck!
Quoted from turbo20lbs:You were, now again crawl back into your hole.
[quoted image]
And nothing changed.
Back on Topic. Any unboxing parties coming up!
2 weeks later
Quoted from okgrak:For real. Those games are timeless and will still be great a long time from now.
What are some of the pins that use this board? My googlefoo isnt really helping.
Quoted from waldo34:That was my conclusion, when new sales money runs thin feels like things will go south. Not sure of the solution but worried for others. Personal Opinion. Seems like, things could turn around if they sub contract a smaller yet established US company. Again, Personal Opinion.
DP has been kicking ass lately, but you just now have this opinion? Waldo, and where is he, is right.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Jack8765:Very happy for you. Honestly. But also a bit confused. I paid in full 2/8, so 7 weeks earlier, and still nothing. I was promised tracking info by tomorrow, but I heard the same thing last week. At this stage, I would expect a quicker turnaround from payment to shipping, like you received. So in some ways that’s encouraging. Yet more common seems to be people having to wait months. One of the more recent excuses was that more recent games went to EAs, which is also a good thing. But then why did you take my money over two months ago? And why are more recent PIF’s receiving games many weeks sooner?
And why is it shipping with old code.
Quoted from Rensh:Come on, the new code was released just last weekend. Shipping takes longer time.
Is this question really worth asking?
My bad. I didnt know the code was just released.
Keep kicking ass!!!
1 month later
Quoted from jeffro01:LOL... That's all I can do is laugh. A year is a pretty standard timeline here if you actually read most peoples experiences in this thread. I'm sure the next person in line will be happy to get a machine that much faster.
Jeff
No kidding. Presumably reads entire thread and still orders, THEN decides its taking to long.
DP has risen from near ashes and its impressive to say the least. If i were in, I'd stay in. Well done DP!
1 month later
Quoted from Joost996me:Today I had the privilege to receive my TBL. Actually I had the opportunity to pick it up at the new factory, including an extensive factory tour. Thanks Barry and his nice (increasing) team!
After some driving the machine is extracted from the box and it plays great!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Awesome write up and man, that Mercedes looks clean!
Quoted from Joost996me:Lol it actually is a (clean looking) BMW...
Im talking about the white Mercedes in the driveway, with mirror like wheels!
Quoted from Soulrider911:So got er up and running, the sound was not working, and it was just a matter of reseating the plugs. Already got my doobie, and mod harness installed thanks to cpr9999.
[quoted image]
Everything is nice and clean, as far as I can tell:
[quoted image]
Doobie!
[quoted image][quoted image]
Love the thoughtful details into this game
[quoted image]
Also a heads up, the service rails are sharp! I mean like razors.... kinda crasy they do not finish the edges I sliced my hand up pretty good. I suggest lightly sanding them.
[quoted image]
Damn man. Someone missed that job.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rensh:For the current batch first the Proc issues need to be solved. Than I foresee for the near future still not up to full capacity. Supplier issues
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"5590e395711eac199672fd9afe94aaab0e153d0a-1628917806-1800"};
//]]>.
Is it not part A than it is part B or C
Each time you solve an issue you think now we can go full steam ahead and than another issue pops up. No, being a manufacturer in these days is a real challenge I can assure you.
But we are doing our best.
Just keep on keeping on.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I was one of those EA's (#59) - last October. Unfortunately, as Rens has acknowledged, games have not been going out to EA's at the previously targeted rate of 1 in every four and most are still in limbo regarding when they will get their TBL.
Ouch, that sucks. Why would they be planning on the next game then? Hopefully not to fund TBL...
Quoted from Rarehero:Mine would have been 56, and apparently that finally went out to someone about a year ago…so you’re doing like 10 EA’s a year? A friend of mine is like 170…he’ll be dead before that game gets made…he’s asked for a refund and been denied. At this point, since new people are ordering in decent numbers - isn’t it about time you refund people who still want out? Doesn't it make more sense to give back $8500 when you can now sell a game for $12500?
So 2 or more people paid for the same game?
1 week later
Quoted from Boblabla:I put down a deposit this week. Nervous and excited at the same time. Totally out of my element.
You are a nut. What do you mean by out of your element?
Quoted from insight75:Thats very interesting. I would have thought there were many more out there.
The first 100 or so were built, with the first 40ish being delivered and the rest held hostage for more money by the contract manufacturer. This lasted a few years until DP started producing them in house. It's been a trickle since, but they are getting it done, one pin at a time!
2 months later
Quoted from Mbecker:Curious to confirm a couple things—
1) any new orders are now 13,500$ plus tax for a game - including shipping?
2) any confirmation on if they were done taking orders around year end ?
3) is it known how many EAs have rcvd games this year? Has it been 1/month or more? Less?
Haven't seen any EA games go out recently.
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