(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 11 hours ago by whitey
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Topic index (key posts)

27 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (3 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (3 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (2 years ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)


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#2247 3 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

Could Burningman's new avatar be a hint of things to come from DP?

Not DP, but someone.

1 month later
#2479 3 years ago

I like the top set. More inline with a cheesy bowling alley. Of course I dont even have TBL haha.

#2500 3 years ago
Quoted from genex:

Looks like I'll be routing my TBL! Wonder if this will be the first one on location outside of the test machine in the Netherlands?

Dont games on route get just tore up? How long does it take to make the $$$ back the game cost? $10,000 in quarters is A LOT of games. I seriously dont know, thats why I ask.

#2512 3 years ago

Shoot, didn't realize there was only 300 supposed to produced...

3 months later
#3377 2 years ago

I need a trust fund!!!

3 weeks later
#3698 2 years ago

What could DP possibly be talking about at the show, other than the TBL fiasco? And if that's all they have to talk about, why not do it through email?? Surely they aren't trying to sell the game to new customers(until everything is straightened out)

#3716 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Is DP still going to be at TPF as of right now for sure, maybe I missed something? Or is the assumption they will be and no one is 100% sure yet?

That's just what has been said in this thread. Good luck with the software. Just because you have a game does not mean you have to stfu as some have stated. You paid for a complete game, everyone who paid deserves a complete game.

You have also handled the vitriol spewed at you with class. That's Rare...

1 week later
#3907 2 years ago

Obviously people are not afraid to continue to pre order #2, even as game #1 Is having serious delivery issues. I think it's quite ballsy to announce #2 when DP has not communicated with owners what the problem with #1 Is.

#4153 2 years ago
Quoted from karl:

2. BOB 25 years sounds like a really, really bad idea in the first place. How many bop fans can there be out there who did not already buy the bop 2.0 kit and still would like to pay 12500 for new one?
Either way, this sucks, big time!!

I dont understand this BOP fascination either!!

#4171 2 years ago

Is BOP super popular in the Netherlands?

#4261 2 years ago

Rensh. That is a great insight into the inner workings of Dutch law, thank you.

Everybody needs to remember Rensh is NOT DP, although he is obviously close to them. With that in mind, please don't take your emotions out on him.

-2
#4271 2 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Well I'm just hanging in hoping it turns out like JJP and WOZ .
Everyone gets their games in 5 years.

While I hope everyone gets theirs sooner, I actually feel like this might be worse than jpop and kulek, as these guys are overseas. Just unbelievable.

#4328 2 years ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Hard to compare this as Kulek did not have a license, DP does, and JPOP did not have a working game, DP does. Point is each situation is totally different. Again only half a year ago DP had it in the bag, a good 'killer' title, games shipping, and ramping up production. Then money issues with their only and needed partner. The overseas part is in my eyes no issues. I do a lot of work with overseas US, India, all different places. The issue is still communication. Although I live in the Netherlands, that does not mean I can knock each day on their doors. I think that last new letter told the story and there is just no news right now.

I only said that because of there is going to be lawsuits pending. Cant imagine the headache it is going to be for American based buyers to work through the court system, if it comes to that.

#4339 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You got yours, to hell with the rest of us, eh?

I'm hoping what he is trying to say is getting lost in translation.

#4475 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

The easiest way for pinside to resolve all this would be to not allow any vendor to use this site as a market place for items that are not ready to deliver. And on the same note not allow members to discuss said items here.

Are you saying Pinside should protect us from ourselves? No thanks.

1 week later
#4531 2 years ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Let's be honest, we all really kept coming back to see rarehero's rants.

Which game? He got a couple going lol.

1 week later
#4605 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Re: code.
They may not have had a machine to test code on.
If the engineering sample they had with them for the party (post factory visit) in November was returned to ARA afterwards, then Koen may not have had access to a machine to test code on for months. Since they were supposedly shut out completely. Pretty sure the rest of the sample / proto games were at ARA when we visited, in a back office. 3 or 4 of them.
That wouldn't necessarily totally stop work, but it would make it very slow.
If this was the case, hopefully access to TBL test machines and the BoP 3.0 proto are now being allowed, at least in the interim.
Anyone know what the situation on this was / is?

S.N.A.F.U

1 week later
#4708 2 years ago

Game over, man.

Yet another promising game goes up in smoke, along with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

#4748 2 years ago

That's his gut. JK

1 week later
#4905 2 years ago
Quoted from Glockonfire:

So a good deal than.
Only 50 exist? How many were planned?

300 I believe.

#4951 2 years ago

There are 2 options on the TBL, right? Taken the deal or sink. Why would this take more than 10 minutes to decide?
I'm thinking they choose the latter, they just don't want to ruin their holiday by announcing it.

#5057 2 years ago

What a terrible turn of events.

#5129 2 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

5 finished in a box and 3 cabinets and partials stuffed into other boxes. Yeah call it 40. And for a while folks kept saying 50.
I wonder how much ARA can charge daily for storage.
I wonder if ARA will screw up sell one and give DP back the upper hand?
Maybe that is what DP is waiting for?
You just can't make this shit up.

You cant make up the fact someone actually purchased a game that was being held hostage!! Hopefully that only required a deposit and not the full price.

1 week later
#5602 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

who have zero self discipline.

You must have been looking in the mirror when you wrote the last part of this sentence.

I also just realized why you are so sure that DP will work out. That would mean spare parts for your TBL, that you are trying to sell at a 100% profit. Wouldnt want a prospective buyer worrying about parts and support, now would ya..

#5659 2 years ago
Quoted from Nikonokin:

They're still in business, aren't they?! I've said it before...this thread is hazardous to your health.

Lol, I could file LLC tomorrow selling RoostKing Karz. Sure, now I have "a" business, but am I really "In" business. No

10
#5660 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Do you walk around work saying the type of stupid speculative shit you spew in this thread? I sure hope not.

Eggbert trying to pump up potential buyers for his game, priced at 2x what he paid!! Careful he's got an agenda!!

#5696 2 years ago
Quoted from Nikonokin:

Totally agree it's big time leverage, you think ARA wants to scrap that shit?! That's a much bigger loss than them biting the bullet and lowering cost. It's a reasonable speculation. And I spoke w/ DP, they are on it, they do care, they are planning to see this through and deliver us TBL. Thank goodness they're not burnt out in all the buzz kill and online uproar yet.

Because buyers who paid more for a game than a good used car created this problem. Hopefully the poor chaps are Ok and have a safe space to get shelter from the mean pinsiders..... Do you actually believe what you post dude? This is ALL on DP.

#5737 2 years ago
Quoted from dannylite:

Sorry dude but who gives a flying fart whether they took a salary or are still taking salaries. They were then and are still entitled to one now as long as they are working to get TBL's built. And last I checked they are. Of course the pre-order money is for salaries, as well as, a laundry list of other things like White Russians and the penthouse at Expo. R&D and Advertising.
It's all part of the Build. Don't like it now but you Loved it back then.
Just deliver! That's the truth. and if they had kept production Rollin' to the EA's then we'd have the biggest success story in the history of pinball on our fingertips. Well, they fell short (for now) Attack! Attack!
Oh and Just stop it with the automatic 40k Dutch salaries and corporate tax speculations These guys are trying and trying and trying to make this damn machine. The timeline sucks Yeah. but let them keep trying and quit talking salary pay. If YOU were trying to do this YOU would have given up a long time ago. That's the damn truth and it applies to me as well. Keep your day job I suppose and make an amazing pin on the side. Best of luck!

Can you detail the things they are doing to get these built? Seems like you might have some inside information.

-4
#5745 2 years ago
Quoted from Foxis:

It boggles my mind that there are so many posters in this thread with (seemingly) large pin machine collections that fail to grasp basic business concepts or economics. Did you all inherit money? Or do you live in a large shack with nothing but pinball machines?
You *should* be caring about where the money went and why, especially since there appears to be too little left to build the machines you already paid for. The balance sheet is earlier in the thread, and you can order the rest of the financial info.
I have nothing riding on the DP outcome, so for all practical matters it doesn't matter if DP goes under or not. The only reason *I* post is that I find the story fascinating and hope that people (both in the business of buying and producing machines) learn a thing or two.
But from what I see here, it is more than likely that this ends in tears, and that people still haven't understood how dangerous the preorder/kickstarter business model can be for customers.
But don't worry. This is my last post here as whatever little advice I hoped I could contribute is not making any difference whatsoever. But good luck to each and every one of you. I mean it.

I firmly believe many people here are trust fund babies. How could multiple people have so much extra cash that they lose on 2 or 3 of these risky ventures?

2 weeks later
#5867 2 years ago

Why does everything need to be reengineered?

#5914 2 years ago

If I were an early achiever, I'd take better late than never. Hopefully this has turned around..

1 month later
#6009 2 years ago

Has anything been addressed by DP regarding the gen1 games. Seems they are going to be left twisting in the wind regarding support.

1 month later
#6107 2 years ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

I’m just glad to see they found a way to build all the TBLs. I could give two sh@ts less about the order they come out. Thanks for finding a way DP!

Until new games start shipping, I would hesitate to pat them on the back and congratulate them for finding a way.

#6130 2 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

So, is Bernie Madoff involved?

One of the shortest, but most accurate statements to date. How is this not a pyramid scheme?

11
#6159 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

what sane person would pay here a TBL 10k€?
Alien standard is around 7500€, the same for Houdini.
Stern pro is around 6500€, premium 8800€
JJP starts at 8800€
if the TBL price is not similar to Alien and Houdini, nobody will preorder it.

If anybody preorders at this point, they are either stupid rich, or just stupid.

#6164 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

About DP or all manufacturers?

DP

#6271 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How is it even possible that these guys are still surviving?
Are BOP sales enough to keep rice and beans on the table after all these years?
So new sales and profits thereon are going to fund the remaining 300 build?
Math doesn't add up to me but whatever

Cause it's pyramid scheme and they are probably using the last bit of money they may have as a hail Mary. If this doesn't drum up significant sales/new money I fear they Wong be around this time next year. I sure hope I'm wrong!!

#6356 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Amazing what they were able to accomplish in 3 years.

Yes, finding 2 different contract manufacturers in 2 different countries, will nary a pin shipped in they past year. Also, EAs going on 4 years. Amazing indeed.

#6386 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Forgot to post this earlier but when I picked up my Alien last week at cointaker I saw this. Talk about an absolute tragedy. Damaged during shipping!

That is a physical metaphor for Dutch Pinball. What could have been.

2 weeks later
#6444 2 years ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

Man that pin looks awesome!
Starting to get excited again!

Exactly what i was thinking.

1 month later
#6536 1 year ago
Quoted from Draegermeister:

I have a pinball machine shaped empty spot in the basement, waiting on Cointaker's second crate to arrive from China. I am super excited for the machine!

2nd crate?

#6573 1 year ago

Any word on the pins that are being held hostage.

#6585 1 year ago

Any chance talk about BoP 2.0 related talk be moved out of the TBL thread?

2 weeks later
#6596 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Had dinner with Barry last Tuesday. We had a redactionmeeting of our clubmagazine in which I and Barry participate. TBL was not in the agenda but it was briefly discussed.
So situation is like last NSN. Work in progress so to speak We can only be patient and rest assured, they are doing their utmost best but it takes time and time and time
They have now announced in last NSN their German distributor and this is not the last European distributor. Hint: see on whose booth they are next week at EAG
Naysayers will use this as a Ponzi scheme but your money (if any) will be with distributors not DP. I see it as positive. Distributors care about their reputation and will not easily sign up with a company which they think will fail. For sure they will get more insight as we have and if this insight makes them become a distributor this assures me.
So (to) slowly but surely it’s moving. Keep faith.

Unfortunately it takes more than time, it takes money. If they had money, time could be speed up.

1 week later
#6607 1 year ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Maybe she’s working on the New Silk Road project; China’s veiled attempt to look good in the eyes of developing nations, but in reality these poor countries will be in dept up to their ears for overpriced projects.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/china-new-silk-road-explainer/

So they are striving to be in debt to China, like we are!! Gotta have goals..

#6618 1 year ago

Any update on the games being held hostage?

#6627 1 year ago
Quoted from kapper:

that's ok......didn't expect much but more excuses anyways. Very hard to work when you have the flu.
Just get around to things when you feel better Barry.....no rush.

Yea, there are only hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in limbo, waiting for any news, but by all means, lay in bed and get better. Newslettering is hard..

#6639 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

200 Pins were paid for by early achievers. They were like usd 8000 incl tax. So where are the millions Lebowski ?? Still a big chunk of money, don’t forget to deduct the tax, not millions for sure.
They never said all the money is gone. They said not enough money was left to built all the 150 left early achiever units. That is something else as all gone. If it was all gone tbl2.0 wouldn’t be happening right now. This is also why they are talking about new sales to get new cash in the house to make it tick. Some will call it a Ponzi scheme but here it is implemented to get everybody their tbl.

But it won't, so Ponzi scheme. If they can't care enough to put out 3 paragraph newsletter that takes 10 mins to compose from bed, well, ya...

#6662 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Got message that no NSN is expected today, rescheduled for next week.
So, bring out the knifes and forks and shoot the messenger.

No one is shooting you. Having a flu doesnt mean the owners cant bang out a 3 paragraph NSN. Hell, I applaud you for being the only one who does communicate what's going on. If only DP were as motivated to get info out...

#6726 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

Might have to put that 10K towards a Hellcat !

Do it!!! Waiting for 2019, power increase for sure.

#6744 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

Or a 2018 and 20k off Msrp
707 is plenty of horse power

Agreed. I'm just hoping Toxic Orange makes a comeback!! Hellcat, best bang for the buck!!

2 weeks later
#6779 1 year ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

Uuiuuuggggghhhhhh.

X2

2 weeks later
#6817 1 year ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

I don't care if DP feels there is "nothing to report". This silence just makes it seem like they are avoiding telling us bad news. If there is truly "nothing to report" then nothing is happening. Otherwise at least give the EAs something. Even "waiting on parts", "testing and making notes", "trying to get pre-orders to fund the whole thing", "setting up the factory space to begin mass production", "working out litigation with ARA" or "spending EA money to eat" is something. We want to know everything. No detail is too boring for us. So unless DP is truly doing nothing that has to do with TBL, there is no reason to not give a 5 minute weekly update. They at least owe that to the people that have waited years after giving up thousands of dollars.

Yea right. These guys can't be bothered to knock out a promised 5 sentence NS email a few months ago, cause they were sick or the dog ate the homework or something.

#6822 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Only if you plan to piss on it like DP did with the deposit money..... To the previous poster, there were a rare few on location Until the owner found out rightfully what they were going to be worth so they disappeared quickly. Of the 50 (ish) out there many have found their way to premium collectors with guarded care. IF they ever make these (or someone qualified to do it) they will be a home run on theme alone.

Seems legit.

#6828 1 year ago
Quoted from highdef:

Possible excuses for their lack of communication:
- Barry got hit by a parked car.
- Jaap's pet rock died.
- Laptop with SolidWorks files accidentally dropped and submerged in a Dutch canal.
- Uber is 2.8x surge pricing from hotel to Xytech factory in Suzhou, so they're waiting it out until the price goes back down.
- Their Uber POOL rideshare from hotel to factory took a left at the fork in the road and now they're somewhere in the Himalayas.
*I am allowed to make snarky comments until this game gets delivered.

Also, they have cold.

1 week later
#6934 1 year ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

You *can* correct the auto-correct

I'm Shure hes a ware of that.?

3 weeks later
#6985 1 year ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Only on pinside can the demise of one pinball company be considered an issue for the overall business health of another. Heighway’s failure was due to a completely separate set of issues. I don’t see the guys at DP living high off the hog and starting a boat company.

Mismanaged funds and over promising will do DP in as well. If people have money in on T, I'd try to get it back. If the company survives, then buy again.

#6987 1 year ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

This looks like a great opportunity for Homepin to produce Lebowski. They have the Manufacturing foundation, which is important for parts supply.The established Chinese connection would be key for future production of this machine.
They obviously need an "A" list Title, Lebowski would fulfill this requirement in spades.
I am familiar with the politics around Homepin, I could care less at this point.
It would be great if these machines could be built.

Serious question. What pin or pins has home pin produced?

#6989 1 year ago
Quoted from Homepin:

That's a very valid question. We ARE currently rolling Thunderbirds pinball off the assembly line - now - TODAY!
Sure, it will be some time before many get to the end customers but we are actually building them NOW! (there are several on site around Guangzhou and Shenzhen).

That's cool!

1 week later
#7054 1 year ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Played this pin at TPF not worth waiting for at all. So many good game out there.

I don't understand the down votes. This pin is on life support and there are many new pins from reputable companies. If they get their shit together then get back in, but at this point, if you can get your money back, I would..

#7055 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

And remember, DP has had many offers for extra orders but turned them all down. No extra money was taken besides the first approx 200 EA. If they were in for money they have had plenty of chances to accept more pre order money but they didn’t. First get 300 out of the door they always said.

In DP defense, this seems to be true. They didn't keep taking orders and money beyond what they originally planned. I sure hope they can make it happen !

#7064 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It's because his opinion of the game is irrelevant to the dire situation the pre-paid people in. Not to mention insensitive as those people are stuck and cannot get their money out and most have tried. His follow up comment was just as ignorant and so is yours.

Dutch Pinball began taking deposits in 2013 at the height of the pre-orders days. No one predicted this mess at the very beginning and some 50 machines have been delivered. A lot of lessons have been learned by the community with Jpop, Predator and now Heighway Pinball screwing the pre-order people.
Today, armed with that hindsight, you armchair quarterbacks fly in and basically tell everyone how stupid they were and the implication is how superior you are to them.
Again, Dutch Pinball began taking deposits in 2013. I see you were a newbie to Pinside in 2013 and Frankmac joined Pinside much later in 2015.
Maybe you two should thank some of the people you benefit from rather than judge them from your high horse and state the obvious.

My mistake, I wasn't aware that things had turned around, do you have some links of the unboxing and game play vids? And hindsight is a very valuable thing. In hindsight, Predator, jpop, aliens etc appears to be a road map for what's going to happen here. Simply suggesting that a refund might be a wise move isn't armchair quarterbacking, its prudent advice. Lucky for me, I am a noob, as it appears it's the well seasoned members who are possibly out $10,000. Oh, to be young again, right Mr. 68!!

#7246 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

At least you weren't stupid enough to have a machine sitting at Cointaker's warehouse waiting on you and then you traded it for a future machine that was yet to be built!!!!! That guy!! LOLOLOL!!!!!
Oh wait, that was me...dammit.

Now why would you do that?

#7270 1 year ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Some closure.. for whatever thats worth

$8500.

#7407 1 year ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

I retired from a major CM. When a project went sour all specialized tooling was scrapped for surplus. Any Trademark items we didn't hold the rights to were destroyed. All remaining parts were auctioned/ scrapped/destroyed.
A class-action suit from all pre-pays staking a claim on remaining machines/parts is the only choice.
Without a singular cohesive voice from those who allowed and made the first machines happen through pre-payment ARA will be forced to destroy any plastics, glass, cabinets and play fields displaying copyrighted artwork.
That is the way it went with us.
Those who paid have the strongest case to claim ownership over the remaining projects ARA holds.
This stock is all that is important, everything else is could be or what if. This stock is all that is tangible and should be saved from the dumpster.
ARA seeks the Rights to the Art, the last viable thing Dutch Pinball seems to hold. Many times these judgments come down to destroying the remnants and starting over.

That's brutal. So whatever complete and partially complete games ARA has will possibly(probably) be destroyed. OUCH.

#7430 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

You should change your name to EternalOptimist!
For the record, I would love for DP to pull a rabbit out of their hat, build everyone's machine (mine first, lol) and save the day.
Then I will apologize to you for being wrong as I eat my avatar. That would be awesome. I just can't look at what has happened and see it going that way.

I was thinking Eternal Downvoter!!! I wonder if he is drawing a salary from DP as the Head of Cheerleading Operations!!

-3
#7439 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

Guys - Your hearts are in the right place, but those are not numbers. Those are crossed fingers and hopes that ARA are the ones that screwed this up. That the court will see it that way. That the court will award DP so much money that it will bail DP out of their sequentially worse and worse business and financial decisions. And that DP will have enough money through this newly found largesse to make everything good for the Extra Aggrieved, oops I mean Early Achievers.
Try working on the most important number imaginable - the number of dollars that DP has left in the bank after their terrible business decisions. That number does not inspire hope.

(edited)

#7458 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I won't be bashing the country, they are the 6th happiest place to live. And we don't need a derail into politics!
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/these-are-the-top-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html

Happy cause they didn't preorder TBL!

#7471 1 year ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

Did you ever hire someone to remodel your kitchen? Half way through they stop showing up and go work on another contract. Do you spend your remaining money going after them to no avail, and your kitchen remains a disaster. Or do you spend your money on a new contractor, get your house back in order, then go after them later. Priorities I would say drove the decision, nothing more.

Kitchen remodel And multi-million dollar deals with hundreds of OTHER PEOPLES MONEY are 2 different things.

#7472 1 year ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

I agree that it's pointless to keep going back and forth. ARA was very good in the beginning of the contract, let's hope they will be good for us again and see the opportunity and negotiate with DP to close the ARA contract. Then DP can continue production with xytech and get all the games to the EA's. And a second or third or forth or all they way up to a tenth set of 300 games can be made for anyone else who wants a TBL around the world.
There is money to be made for sure, if all the passion in this thread is any indication. There's nothing in it for anyone if the game dies before it has a chance to hit the market in large numbers. Good luck to all the EA's, and everyone not in but would like to see the game in production and available to purchase... if you will it Dudes, it is no dream..

Sadly, It's already dead. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, which one fills up first?

16
#7542 1 year ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

February 24, 2017 date on the letter we can measure ARA's performance as the CM on TBL and see how they were doing.
33% completed, only 16% delivered, +400% on schedule -67% over due and we will guess +25-30% over budget. Numbers are working against ARA, for DP.

Did you read the same letter that we did lol.

10
#7558 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They haven’t posted here in years. Not sure if that’s good or bad...but honestly it doesn’t help them when people have nothing but feelings and opinions to discuss when the facts are being withheld.

Why post now. They never cared to set the record straight then, and the last NSNL said game over dude. Also, they get colds and are unable to bang out 3 paragragh NSNLs when it matters.

#7584 1 year ago
Quoted from Fintan_Stack:

Give them even more money? That is your plan? Wow. I really need to get into the pinball making business.

"That's barely a concept!!!!!"

#7606 1 year ago
Quoted from tacshose:

The way the email is written it sounds like they would be happy to sell TBL pinball machines to DP if DP figures out how to pay for them...
Honestly, DP should put forth a proposal that ARA can sell the built machines directly to someone like Cointaker, and be done.

I didn't see the translation?

2 weeks later
#7743 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds

Source? Proof?

#7750 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.

To be honest, DP owes way more apologies lol.

#7770 1 year ago
Quoted from highdef:

The licensor (Universal) may be our only hope in smacking some sense into DP (ie, their refusal of refunds, unconfirmed delivery dates). No one else (including ARA) seems to "intimidate" DP, so I welcome Universal's input/point-of-view on this illegal "wait-and-see" sh*t show.

Why would DP care? They can look into the face of EAs and blatantly lie.

#7821 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Will anyone admit to being in the “Seattle Seven” and explain the logic? There’s no doubt most of all of them are on pinside and likely read and post in this thread...

No, if there is actually a Seattle 7. Now if there is a Seattle 7, I could totally see them falling for this shit lol.

3 weeks later
#7974 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

PETA hates you.

Because PETA isnt really about animals, it's about their agenda.

Also that go fund me is a joke lol.

-3
#7980 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

People keep coming back on the deal proposed by ARA. This was a bad offer. ARA didn’t want to deliver these 40-50 units to us EA.
They wanted their hands freed to sell them somewhere else and than terminate the contract. They wouldn’t care about the storm it would cause in pinball country as it’s not their usual market and they would declare DP bankrupt.
As they can’t proof it DP never said a word about it but Rene at that moment hinted in a
meeting to DP that that was the plan. So Can’t proof it but the fact that ARA wouldn’t settle with full access to all the money should mean something. This money however would only be freed if delivered to EA’s. Selling somewhere else makes more money or do deliver to EAs and accept less money. Than sell the remaining parts also and most of ARA cost would have been covered and they would leave Pinball business for good and leave us EA with nothing. Getting only access to the money would force them in building all the pins. Having control over DP would enable the earlier plan.
Please also do note that ARA has proven broken earlier commitments and agreements. In hindsight ARA was a bad choice
Damned, now I did answer again while I am on holiday. Enjoying view on the Fiji Islands
Let’s further agree to disagree. Hope we will ever know what is the true story. My info is after all 1sided only. It’s only fair to admit that.

You are obviously more than just a buyer. You are completly disregarding the facts as we know them and defend DP so much that you seem to be a paid employee. Is the DP team on vacation with you?

#8014 1 year ago
Quoted from kklank:

You're defending a "buddy" who took a shit ton of money from a lot of people and now it appears to be all gone.
WHERES THE MONEY??? Where's all the flipping money??!
Quit placing all this blame on ARA. That's crap.
If he's such a great guy and has nothing to hide then have him post his financials on Pinside showing where every penny went. Was Barry taking a 6 figure salary? Do you know?
Show some transparency.
If he's got nothing to hide then let's see it.
I smell a rat that's hoping he won't get sued by a bunch of guys in the states and you're just trying to keep the waters calm by posting its ARA's fault.

I just don't understand why Rensh keeps defending these guys and falling on the sword for them?? Friends don't let friends twist in the wind.

#8119 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

They're back .... https://www.gofundme.com/seattle-seven Hi Barry and Jaap (Seattle 7)
Status #2 Jul 18 - 4 days since last update. Donations have hardly budged, increasing the pot to 1/750th of the way to goal. Still forecasting a shutdown of the gofundme by September.

These guys have no shame.

#8120 1 year ago

Who cares if the have a private forum? Good luck and I hope it works out! I'd love a TBL in the future!!

#8129 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Don’t think you have to worry about anyone stealing your place in line as the line is now gone and the parks closed.

sorry_folks_parks_closed_by_rossradiation-d8h8aiv (resized).jpg
#8150 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I think you will find the $500euro is what is needed to payout ARA for what is owed and games in their possession.
Then plan is sell them for $20k each which would get $600k us back, then proceed with new production in china.
Only problem is them raising $500k euro? Any billionaires out there?

Aren't these games already paid for by EA's?

#8152 1 year ago

I'm not sure why people just can't grasp that this is over?? Hopefully those ARA games get to the EAs, but beyond that, game over unfortunately.

#8194 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Good idea.
Guess it will leak out eventually but let’s not make it the trolls with nothing at stake to easy.

Irony

1 week later
#8238 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Can someone tell me what is the current situation? Is it getting into production or not?
Thanks

SNAFU. Situation Normal, All eFFed Up.

#8245 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

We really miss posts like this in the private thread. But you can't have everything I guess.
Going back to the buffet, they have king crab legs today!

So it's not messed up? See how this is confusing to us? Should I buy a game now since all is good.

#8247 1 year ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

I am sure there are plenty of us willing to sell you our pre-order.

I'll wait and see if RTR proclaims that the situation is not still SNAFU. My gut feeling is that I won't be buying one...

#8253 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

You like this thread so much, you should buy 2!

So I'll take that as confirmation the situation is no longer SNAFU and if FUBARd. Sending $$ now! Thanks RTR!

#8257 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Certainly confirmed. That's a game that was actually delivered to those that paid for it.[quoted image]

Loving the Hot Rod theme!!

#8258 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

PM'd my PayPal information. Please send it friends and family.

Too late, I'm now looking for a SNAFU!

3 months later
#8424 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Around 50 or so went out, plus there are allegedly 40 more new in the box at ARA since 2016 being held hostage.
Code updates are not the problem with TBL. The problem is that hundreds have paid for it & not received it, and people are SILENT on the topic.

People are not silent, they just went to the private thread.

#8426 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why hide?
There are plenty of people who just lurk who have money tied up in this venture. The story should be public.

From a non-purchaser point of view, I'd love to see the drama as it unfolds.

If I were a purchaser, I would like to see the above BS avoided. If DP requested a secret page, that's one thing. It's not, so owners should be able to discuss amongst themselves, in private.

3 weeks later
#8509 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

6500 for an 8500 public price ??? Even worse if 6500 is € and 8500 is $. No wonder that adventure ended up the way it did. There is no way to build a sustainable business with margins this thin.

Or with business people who have no idea how to run a business! Or answer emails when in bed with the sniffles!

#8512 1 year ago
Quoted from Aladdin:

Just curious, are there really 40 machines in a warehouse? If so, what will happen to them?

That seems to be the prevailing #, give or take. Most likely destroyed would be my guess after all litigation is over.

#8519 12 months ago

ARA isnt the pinball business, much less tech support for TBL issues.

#8522 11 months ago
Quoted from tacshose:

Umm I’m just hoping these games get released for sale so they can be scooped up like Alien games were. Dutch is as dead as Heighway.

Those games are already paid for by Early Achivers(but not by DP). I can't imagine the double slap in the face if they get resold.

#8524 11 months ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Rare
Did you play Seabeatles at q world?

What about BeaWitched!

#8528 11 months ago
Quoted from dung:

Wonder why no one is mentioning the fact that the rights might be purchasable by another company? If dutch is bankrupt their assets go up for sale. If someone buy's the rights they can make the game without the need for the R&D. Now, the license with universal may transfer or it might have to be repurchased, but this seems more likely than a bankrupt dutch finding a new manufacturer and the funds to build more themselves.

It's been mentioned multiple times over the last couple of years. Start at page 1, it's a ride that hopefully ends well.

1 month later
#8546 10 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

lawsuit update soon? whats the scoop? When can Spooky or Chicago Gaming jump in and take over production here in the US and start pumping these things out for a reasonable price? If they were smart they would be teeing this up now...

When hell freezes over.

1 week later
#8593 10 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

No one HAS to face the EA's. The EA's cant even be inspired to stand up for themselves and FACE DP with a lawsuit to clear this ridiculous log-jam of lies, delays and avoidance by DP.
If this thing ever gets settled between ARA and DP, guess what...the EA's are merely collateral damage and get nothing. Until they stand up for whats right and what's theirs, they are not even involved in the discussion. DP has somehow masterfully continued to string them along and kept them huddled around a dim candle of hope. If someone actually exposed the facts I suspect the EA's would not remain so docile and patient...with Zidware, Skit-B, Heighway, all the truth came out and the Band-Aid was ripped off...its long overdue for that to happen here.

And look how well that has turned out, out of a game and lawyer fees. Unless you are rich, throwing good money after bad is not a good ide?

1 month later
#8623 8 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So when are Barry & Jaap going to give people back their money? My friend is still paid in full. He's not a Pinsider. This silence will not stand, man.

Never. Your friend might as well plan for the worst. If he does, it a bonus. Sadly. These guys suck.

#8636 8 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Holy shit if this is real this is an amazing and unexpected news item! I’m day one buyer if i can get from a distributor in box!

While I have no idea if true or not, I doubt 70 would make it to distros. Some well heeled gents with connections are going to get in before they are even officially announced.

#8640 8 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

YESSSSS!!!
#59 is FINALLY COMING HOME!

Is that for real? I sure hope so, that would be great.

#8643 8 months ago

Well I tried finding ARA on the web without any luck lol. My googlefu is failing me. I was going to straight up email them and ask about the games.

#8645 8 months ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

Lots of these games listed in the last 30 days,
Maybe the guys in the inner circle ⭕️ know more then they say . Maybe insider trading ?

Well since they paid for them, I hope they do know something.

#8683 8 months ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Sorry to confirm that what Kaneda is telling isn’t true.
Wonder where he got his intel, he sounded very sure.

Maybe because Kaneda is a piece of shit thats needs flushed.

3 weeks later
#8774 7 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

Call me insane, but I would still take TBL over Wonka and Black Knight.

So you have played them?

#8776 7 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

No but I can explain. I'm a fan of early 90s B/W games. That's what I've owned and grew up playing. For me, TBL has been the only modern day game that replicates the nostalgia of that era. I think the art, music, theme integration, callouts, and layout on TBL blows away current games, but again, that's MY opinion because I'm old-school like that. It is clearly evident DP was going for that same look and feel. Even when DP lost the rights to the original songs, they were still able to pull it off with the cover songs. Not only were they tasteful with the music, but they didn't go overboard with things like RGB lighting or filling the backglass LCD with nonsense.
TBL may be vaporware and DP may be terrible businessmen, but I will always give them respect and props for the game itself.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I just cannot understand how people can judge a game based on a short video though. Isn't pinball about interaction, sights, sounds and oh yes, game play? Would you buy a car based off a short vid, probably not

#8783 7 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

I feel you Roost, but I can't lie. I put down on TBL without playing it. I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been for all these meddling Early Achievers <said in my "Scooby Doo amusement park owner voice">. I was so blown away by the pics and videos posted here when Expo '14 was happening.
In all fairness, I did fly to Chicago the following year to play the game before final deposits were due. I watched Rensh's videos from DPO '15 many times. What's not to like?
Of course, here we are 3.5 years later and most of us don't have the game we all wanted so badly.
Would I do it again? Most likely not. I do agree that you should play the game in order to know whether you like it, but I don't need to flip Wonka or Black Knight to know if they hold up to TBL. I'd personally take The Dude callouts and "Oye Como Va" over those games any day. Again, just my opinion and I've owned Lawlor and Ritchie games. TBL is the game that got me back into the hobby after a 7-year hiatus, so I have DP to be thankful for it.
Even though this TBL is currently lost in space, I would still own it in a heartbeat. I see it as a statement piece. Nothing against Stern or JJP -- they're actually shipping games!

Another quality post. I am not knocking TBL at all. Would I want JJP or Stern to have this license, nope! DP did it perfectly, except the business side. Its a shame and I like your "Statement game!" as it is quite impressive. I had a sold game for them, but I had to caution my buddy against a pre-order... He wants to buy me a huge steak now lol. Anyway, I hope to play or own a TBL someday, after EA's are made whole..

#8784 7 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

I feel you Roost, but I can't lie. I put down on TBL without playing it. I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been for all these meddling Early Achievers <said in my "Scooby Doo amusement park owner voice">. I was so blown away by the pics and videos posted here when Expo '14 was happening.
In all fairness, I did fly to Chicago the following year to play the game before final deposits were due. I watched Rensh's videos from DPO '15 many times. What's not to like?
Of course, here we are 3.5 years later and most of us don't have the game we all wanted so badly.
Would I do it again? Most likely not. I do agree that you should play the game in order to know whether you like it, but I don't need to flip Wonka or Black Knight to know if they hold up to TBL. I'd personally take The Dude callouts and "Oye Como Va" over those games any day. Again, just my opinion and I've owned Lawlor and Ritchie games. TBL is the game that got me back into the hobby after a 7-year hiatus, so I have DP to be thankful for it.
Even though this TBL is currently lost in space, I would still own it in a heartbeat. I see it as a statement piece. Nothing against Stern or JJP -- they're actually shipping games!

And to be fair, I bought my first and only pin, new or otherwise, without even seeing it. METLE #199. I'm kinda a fan lol, so take my posts with a grain of salt!!

0415192036 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#8787 7 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

Good choice and love the Off-Road next to it. I wouldn't mind a MET Roadcase!

Thanks I'm about to restore that Off Road, it needs it. Roadcase is pretty bad ass looking..

4 weeks later
#8812 6 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Are we ready to admit this is as dead and illegitimate as Andrew Heighway and Skit-B? The only difference here is the victims have yet to legally pursue a rightful judgment against these guys. Why are they allowed to remain silent as though there is any hope? Why is there no rationalization of the obvious demise of this project? How much longer are victims willing to wait? And what happens at that point in time?

I'm guessing the logistics of dealing with these jokers overseas.

#8838 6 months ago
Quoted from RTR:

I will go ahead and write the next update for Barry, I know he has been busy.
Dudes - sometimes the bear eats you and by you I don't mean us, I mean you. Your money is all gone and you are not getting a TBL. We are so so very sorry. We did our best and did everything 100% right. Despite our best efforts (which rocked - remember the parties?!) ARA screwed us, but also you. Mainly you.
If only we had more money, we might have been able to prevail in court, but alas, ARA outspent us and the judge (who doesn't understand pinball or contracts or genius) did not see it our way. We could give you the details, but our attorney said don't. He seemed emphatic on this point. Something like "Never tell anyone any of the details unless you want to get sued by all the customers you screwed, you chuckleheads!". That made sense to us, so no details!!
We tried EVERYTHING to get this done and all of our efforts (which were always awesome) were subverted by others. We really felt guilty living off the achievers (your) money for so many years, but what else could we do? Gotta feed the monkey!! If only ARA would have built the BOP25s!! ARA would not see the truth and sunk the project. ARA hates you and hates pinball. Probably hates us too, who knows?
We will be looking for other ways to continue the project - angel investors, BOP30s, lottery tickets, BOP35s, wishful thinking, BOP40s, marrying very old millionaires - whatever it takes! We love pinball so much and hate to let you down - we will never rest until this is over!
Try not to worry about us, we will be fine. We will each retain a TBL at home for, uh, research purposes as we continue to pursue our dream. By the way - we have started selling BOP kits again! Early Achievers can get 10% off BOP kits (limit one please). Just type in the code HAHAHAHADP at checkout!!
Sincerely,
Barry and Jaap

Don't forget, one of them had such a bad cold, that they could not write a newsletter, while in bed.

1 week later
#8848 6 months ago

Some people lol. A fool and his money are soon parted.

I can't believe people think this game, in its current form, will ever be produced. Good luck though, I'm hoping they get the games.

#8888 5 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?
I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

Insert "So your saying there is a chance" meme.

#8889 5 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Thanks for clarifying guys. There’s gotta be another deep root investor out there to save this mess!! Right now sure doesn’t sound like a good gamble to go in for a grand on a hostage game. Sure hope they don’t get destroyed in the end, that would be a shame.

Unless the license is a problem.. And that would be a total shame..

1 week later
#8905 5 months ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

I thought they had offshored this project to People's Republic of China or North Korea or something.
I guess that didn't happen.
Is there any possibility someone could make this loss into a win? Or is it like a bad Cryptocurrency investment. Lost

Someone could, only takes money!

3 weeks later
#9107 4 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Here is a thought from someone smarter about these things than myself. How does 1 man. Gain access to these 40 pins and ship them out all by himself? He has no staff. No employees, etc...
Anyone care to enlighten me? I’m on board to help but getting sorta spooked on the whole thing.

You are just now getting spooked?

#9166 4 months ago
Quoted from Manimal:

I'll admit I just scanned most posts as I can't keep up here, but anyone that thinks more games will ever be made by DP is crazy. I do feel bad for JAAP, but his former company is gone and people need to accept that.
ARA doesn't want these games in a warehouse, so I am sure they have worked out some sort of split with DP to get these games and parts sold. All of the claims about generating revenue to make the original buyers whole is pure crap. It has proven to be an unsustainable model time and time again. It is a pure cash grab, and DP needs a good cover to get dealers to purchase the games and to keep the original buyers from throwing burning dung on their door step. They have shown time and time again they cannot be trusted.
Now with that said, I am amazed at the rush of people to buy these games knowing others put out good money for them. I don't know if the original buyers would have any legal remedies, but they should surely be exploring the possibility. And while it is entirely legal for others to rush up to the sales counter....just ask yourselves how you would feel if the roles were reversed and you were one of the early buyers. Horrible Karma at the least.
Mostly though, I am really disappointed in the dealers and the attitude displayed regarding the situation. They know full well people got taken for a lot of money on these games, yet they are willing to just overlook that part of the issue and act like it doesn't matter. Aren't many of the early buyers your customers too? I am (or used to be) a huge fan of Cointaker.....but when you were asked about the early buyers and just replied that they would need to take that up with DP is unacceptable. This is a small industry, and small group that is like a family, and to just discard people that were wronged to "keep these games from going to the European market" is pure BS. It is a cash grab all of the way around....and the claims of "we aren't making much" are BS as well. "Much" is a relative term and really says nothing.
I was not an early buyer....I would have loved to have one of these games at one point, but I would never touch one now unless they were made completely by a different company. This whole deal stinks to high heaven, and I hope somehow the early buyers get made whole in all of this, but it won't be with any new startup of production. That will NEVER happen. There isn't enough money in 200 games to get that going, let alone 40.
All of this seems like going through your grandma's purse for cash after she passed away. Horrible....but I doubt anyone is going to lose any sleep over it. It is only pinball after all.

Nothing personnel, strictly business. DP was a "business". ARA is not a pinball business, CT is a business that sells pinball machines.

And if anyone thinks DP, ARA, or CT is going to closely inspect these machines at anytime is nuts. I have no doubt CT is telling buyers AS-IS. No Warranty, ZERO support.

The pinball community will have to address issues, much like Alien.

#9175 4 months ago
Quoted from Manimal:

I hate it when people use that term..."strictly business", like it somehow excuses us from having any human compassion. In the end, we are going to be remembered/judged not by our business, but how we are as a human. People can do whatever they want and my opinion is just that....an opinion. But I for one will loose a ton of respect for those stepping over the early buyers.
As a medic, I once worked a case of a heart attack at a blackjack table. The woman fell off of her chair and the casino was crowded. As we were treating this woman, people were placing bets over the top of us because....hey, it was an open seat. I guess that was nothing personal either, but it was just as disgusting.

Ok well not the same, at all. Its not ARA's fault, its not really EA's fault. Its DP's. It does suck and it is unfortunate, but ARA has employees that need to be paid. I have no idea how much ARA is owed, but they deserve what they can get for the money they put up. Or should they just write it off?

#9178 4 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Kind of predicted this a few pages back; however, 99% of people long forget 6, 12 months down the line. Wish I had a penny everytime I hear people are boycotting something for some reason only to find them back at the business. Just doesn’t work.

Dude, pinball people forget in less time that! Predator, Zidware(Some people buying multiple "pins" based on artwork alone) Alien, and finally DP. Hell, someone in this very thread just a few pages back said something to the affect "Im not getting a good feeling about this now" LOL Ya think???

#9189 4 months ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I have not kept up with this thread. The 40 games sold out instantly?

Apparently , yes. Some may have gone to Nitro.

#9270 4 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

against shipping damage...
These are gonna be AS-IS

With no warranty and no support.

#9271 4 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

I checked back over last nights posts in this thread and that was not posted anywhere. Did I miss it? Where did you see this? Thx

Seems to be a tactic to keep EA buyers hopeful. A poor, twist the knife tactic.

#9272 4 months ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Whoosh right over your head lol.

More like shot over the bow!

#9396 4 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Nope, TBL is better than Alien IMHO.. also TBL is way better looking as the Alien cabinet and back box are MEH.. again just my humble opinion.

He said Played, not artwork. "Playing Pinball Matter" PPM

#9443 4 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Wanna play the TBL numbers game? Bring a bottle of booze and case of beer. World Population is 7.5 billion. Number of people satisfied with the distribution and sale of 90 TBL pinball machines is ... 1,094
50 EA’s paid $8.5k each and received their game, but these were never paid off at ARA -> Barry and Jaap committed grand theft larceny on the day these games were delivered, when they had no money nor ability to pay for them.
40 orders made with $1k deposit at Cointaker. Sure their purchase price jumped $4k but the game’s value rose more and they have a TBL.
ARA will be paid for work which they had to write off their books. They will receive a $480k windfall for 2019 and ARA’s employees annual bonuses. ARA will not be producing any more TBL’s and will wash their hands of DP once the last promised cent clears their bank.
CoinTaker will fulfill it’s TBL orders and meet their obligation which they they created when they accepted deposits. Hopefully they have dibs on a boatload of spare parts to support owners. CoinTaker succeeds at getting 40 more games into the world before they hit dumpsters and were lost forever. Not entirely altruistic, CoinTaker will earn some lost money back through this transaction.
Jaap is freed from this mess to focus on his health crisis.
Barry gets ARA off his back and sees more games in the world. He also gets spare parts and plans to assemble them himself to earn some running money. That he still owes thousands to vendors and suppliers and 80 TBL’s to EA’s is of little consequence. The license will expire this year and have no value then. The rights, tools and institutional knowledge to build TBL have limited and rapidly declining worth, without a license. This is a deep hole, so expect DP to declare bankruptcy by year end.
1000 people who may come across and play a TBL.
AND if you don’t see your group mentioned above .... you were probably fu@Ked in the A**

Brutally, honest..

#9452 4 months ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

When will Barry's next update be?

Doubt he will announce bankruptcy.

#9464 4 months ago
Quoted from estrader:

same here...but if you can get one from cointaker is there a reason to turn it down?

They are long gone.

#9484 4 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I’m guessing 40 pass inspection and maybe more?
[quoted image]

The inspection is going to go like this. Opens box. Is there a pinball machine in there? Seals up box.

I am sure DP, ARA, CT have or will make it clear these are AS-IS, with no warranty implied or expressed.

#9489 4 months ago
Quoted from whitey:

This is a half a million dollar deal
Coin taker is a legit business, there not gonna crate up 40 Munster pros !!!
This isn’t there first BBQ
Anyone that wants to see this game be made again or loves pinball hopes that everything goes well .Having this go bad doesn’t benefit anyone. After going to court I’m guessing a court system is overlooking this with a fine tooth comb
Think about it ? You actually think he’s shooting from the hip with 500K

Its not cointaker on the hook, its Barry. He needs this to happen in the worst way and I cant imagine he will be unboxing each game, play testing etc. Maybe and hopefully I am wrong. Id love to play one some day!

#9490 4 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

As someone who spoke with cointaker, none of you have any details about how this is working or what the insurances are to the people buying the games. It’s almost comical. I get you are all pissed but seriously, none of you have it right. It isn’t my place to tell you either so don’t bother asking me. Those that did get a game and spoke with CT about the finer points will know what I’m talking about and the steps CT is taking to protect customers. Y’all need to chill. Melissa is one of if not the best person in the pinball industry in my eyes and she always looks after others best interests.

So you are saying there is a warranty, parts replacement and a full inspection before they ship, or after they hit the US? Doesnt seem like there is much in between what I said earlier, and that. Sorta all or nothing.

#9524 4 months ago
Quoted from RTR:

Not sure why that cartoon is in my post that was from a post in the other thread. It is a live view of DP's accountants creating the funding plan...

They have accountants?

#9536 4 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Just remember, when all the EA’s get their games in the future. The 40 buyers of these games from ARA will happily take that thank you.

Based on?????

Your psychosis is very vivid, the name fits!

#9539 4 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Y’all need to be more positive.

So who is making the games that EAs will be getting?

#9543 4 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

The 40 buyers of the ARA games are key to the EA's ever having a chance at restitution. And I'm glad they bought them to give this effort a chance. But let's not pretend they bought those games out of charity for others. They bought them out of self interest.

How? Isnt the money from this sale going to be used to satisfy the DP debt to ARA? Nobody in their right mind is going to work with DP again. I mean, who doesn't hope its going to happen? Please see RTR meme above.

-1
#9552 4 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

That's a question for Barry and hopefully his podcast will shed some light it. I'm just hopeful that he finds a way and EA's will be taken care of.

Disagree. If games are boxed and sitting inside Cointaker or Nitro's warehouse for immediate shipping, they will sell and I think sell very well.

By working with them, I mean funding to get this off the ground and in production. Obviously people will buy the game if they have the opportunity, just not pre-order, for the most part. There are still those people out there though.

#9561 4 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm glad you agree with me.

Seems you misunderstood the big picture outlook that I meant, but yes, if they show up for sale, they will fly off the shelves. Problem is, nobody is going to work with DP and manufacture these pins. Sadly.. Cause i know 2 Instabuys.

-1
#9562 4 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

[quoted image]

Wrong, at least 2. They aren't interested in a project or no support though. They want to order, deliver and play. With the usual tweaks of course..

#9564 4 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

No, I understood and I answered you the first time.

You might be right. In the pinball world, a podcast can change everything. In the real world, unless there is real$$$ injected, its not happening.

#9569 4 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Sorry dude, nobody is paying $12k for TBL if it were a full run 3000+ machines when better LE’s are going for much less. This machine is only $12.5K because there’s only 40. Basics of supply and demand my friend

Who says they have to be $12500? They needed that # to satisfy debt on these 40.

#9606 4 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Which is precisely why you sue him. If Barry doesnt have to answer you truthfully or in full then why would he? He just wants to be out of debt himself meaning personally and DP wise because yes lawsuits can spill over personally if any guarantees were made I would imagine there are now. Barry must be sooo happy everyone has just laid down and let him do exactly what he wants with parts and machines that in any other circumstance, would not be his to sell again and again. In business you put a suit in to get answers, truthfully in full answers. What you do after that is entirely then based on facts not Barry and friends polished info they want you to have.

I would guess the reluctance is because he is not stateside?

#9609 4 months ago
Quoted from Rody:

Regardless of future production prospects, I hope that there is support for those with games...sad to see these two examples at Sunshine folded up for years with little hope of needed parts.[quoted image][quoted image]

Wow That sucks. Expensive and darn good paperweights!! I do not believe there will be any support avaiable for to 40 inbound switches either.

#9622 4 months ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Yes, yes I think they would...
Ask that another way. You think ARA would release 500 G's worth of pins without payment received?

The didnt release them before, why would they release them now... And I still think Barry is just going to do a cursory inspection. "Yep, there is a pinball machine in the box, tape er up!"

#9749 4 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Can someone post this video please, I was not there
Cheers

Here is "a" video shot in a penthouse. Not sure if this is the party.

#9755 4 months ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Looks like one kickass party! Would’ve loved to be there.

That gal at the beginning was gorgeous lol

#9756 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

My recollection of events was that ARA asked for 1000euro more for each game, DP refused to pay, and after that ARA proposed a way forwards by a hostile takeover, which they also refused... I don't think these two were simultaneous things...

Don't the 500k euros worth of parts they are getting from ARA count as assets?
I've done some speculative maths also (yes, the 's' at the end of 'math' was intentional ) and if we assume the parts for the next 100 games are 90% there (financially speaking, not number or weight!) and assuming the total cost to make each game (parts wise) is 6000euro, 10% of which is left to pay) then to make the next 100 games will cost 60k euro, they sell for 10000euro each = 940k euro profit. Let's say the next 100 games worth of parts are for 50% of the cost means that the next 100 games will cost 300k to make and they also sell for 10k each means another 700k profit. Total profit with zero parts left is 1.64million. This should be enough to pay the rest of the ARA debt plus the new manufacturing set up (which will be lower than usual due to massive inventory of parts already made) and have plenty of cash left for making the parts for the next batch of games... roughly speaking... fire away!

Depends on the parts missing. Couple of screws, easy. Entire bowling mechs, not so much.

#9764 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Of course... the speculation that the first 100 parts covers 90% of a machine covers that.
Come on guys, there must be a better counter-argument than that! I've painted a positive picture for the future of DP there... where are you?? Don't disappoint me with your counter attack!

You are just lumping parts together as if they are the same. Hell, they could have 99% of the parts, but if 1% is the bowling alley that is missing, they might as well be at 1% of the parts needed. Not not going to happen.

#9803 4 months ago
Quoted from whitey:

Games are shipping soon
First step to get this going again?

Money. If you have a spare million, let DP know. If not, just money from someone else.

#9804 4 months ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

EA games will never be made. Agreed they should send us all our rug and EA plate with our number on it as a last big Fuck you to us EA's

I want to up up this and downvote this at the same time I am so sorry you early Achievers got fucked like this period.

#9807 4 months ago
Quoted from whitey:

Ok thats like your opinion man,but it really did tie the room together

Can we stop with that quote, it got old like 3000Xs used ago.

#9857 4 months ago

So Barry and Jaap are officially bigger scumbags than JPOOP and Kevin Kulek. They managed to resell the same games two times. What a group of complete and total con artists.

#9880 4 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Oh, is that sad people there because TBL has been released to the public?
[quoted image]

Just another commiefornian acting like you do. Douchy

#9886 4 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

It seems I am limited as to how many down votes I can give in a certain time period?
I had no idea.[quoted image]

I say we just dont feed the trolls. We know who they are...

#9898 4 months ago
Quoted from Time:

I saw something again today I hadn't seen in a few years.
https://www.pinballnews.com/games/biglebowski/index4.html

In the included video, Ara spent a lot of time talking about how "lean" the production would be. IE, Just in time manufacturing of parts. They did say some stuff from overseas had to be ordered in bulk (rugs, playfields and Williams mech I assume), but it seemed like a lot of the metalwork was done just before production. That's making me worry a little bit with regard to stockpiles of parts. If they did have lean production, they might have used up much of the stock in the 40 games already. I'm just so anxious to here what parts are left.
Sorry - don't mean to add to speculation here. I have no facts. Just re-watched the old video and noticed that.
I'm looking at this video from June 2016 to see what Ara had for parts stocked. Looks like 300 rugs. Don't see a lot of bowling alley mechs:

It waa exactly the bowling alley where I doubted they had enough to of them to make 100 games. Maybe 4 or 5..

-3
#9901 4 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I typically enjoy listening to Ben Heck and this is a worthwhile podcast episode. Unfortunately, like numerous others, Ben is not totally up to speed on his TBL facts and much of his discussion with Kaneda is just speculation.

Why would Ben appear on Kanedas podcast? I hope he took a shower afterwards.

#9929 4 months ago
Quoted from RTS:

Why do you think people hate Ben Heck?
The down votes could be for a condescending comment that "he's a man worth listening to."

I thought Special K was a boy, since he still slept in underroos and has a superman banky?

#9942 4 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Nope they have “truckloads” of original parts to use or as I was told roughly 50 to 100 games worth of original parts that were produced using the original DP/ARA design. If DP does build more games they will be using existing original parts which are the same as the 80 to 90 games already produced. I truly hope all EA’s get their games.. especially RTR!

If anyone thinks the original EAs are getting those games, well, ill eat the Crow that RTR is supposed to eat!! No way all or half of the games are going to the EAs. If, somehow THOSE 50 to 100 games produce enough $$$ for additional games, then maybe, just maybe EAs become whole.

#9947 3 months ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

One of the several parts of a build that I would doubt exists in inventory. Without that part, no new games will be made.

Thats exactly what I was saying a few days ago. One poster keeps saying that if they have 90% of the parts, they could get to 100%. If they don't have the bowling mech, they might as well have 0% of any other parts.

#9955 3 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Does anyone actually see a mathematical way forward to fulfill the EA buyers who have been screwed? What is the ACTUAL cost to produce a game now and who is going to produce them? Even if the parts are "paid for", the labor to build, the tools to build, the space to build, palettes and boxes, none of that exists or is accounted for! And what about the shipping costs? just a direct pass-through to the buyers I suppose?
Surely they do not have all parts on hand. And what about the cut that CT or nitro take? So lets play the game - if it costs $5000 to build one of these new machines with parts on hand for all the extra costs, they sell for $12,500, CT takes what, $2000? So they need to sell how many to start to build a war chest to actually pay out of pocket to build the EA games and send them out for free? Is that realistic at all???

No, without a serious cash infusion, this game is dead.

#10012 3 months ago

Who knew when this that Barry and Jaap would be considered even bigger scumbag than Jpop and Kulek. Wow..