(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

27 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (3 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (3 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (2 years ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#102 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Just got this from Barry...finishing up lighting

tbl prod proto.JPG

Thanks for the photo. That is one WHITE Russian.

#131 4 years ago

Is TBL showing up at any upcoming pinball shows (either USA or European)?

2 months later
#430 4 years ago

Go, Barry, go!

Throw us a bone, here, man!

3 months later
#661 4 years ago

If they don't make the sound files unmoddable, then it's cool by me.

If they however lock down the files via encryption, then I want out.

#688 4 years ago

At Pinball Life yesterday, confirmed with DP programmer that music files, while not released with the master tracks, would NOT be encrypted/locked down.

That is, theoretically, someone could probably find a way to painlessly change the music files to their liking (without official dp support).

#696 4 years ago
Quoted from Fishbeadtwo:

Not to change the topic here or anything but does anyone know if the call outs will have family and nsfw settings? Like Goodman saying"this is what happens...." Or Bunny saying her famous" I'll suck your ........" ?

My understanding is that it was previously announced a while back that there would be a family friendly mode. Also since then, playfield art has removed cannabis image.

#701 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Jaap said that they got the first production model from the factory - and could have shipped them - but they were shit and had to make changes. The new production models will be at DPO in Nov. so - even though he wouldn't give us a date (seems to be the new MO for anyone but Stern) - it's clearly "close".

There's nothing blind about my faith. I own BOP 2.0. They've shipped me an awesome functional and supported product. I've played the Lebowski protos and seen the pics of the production model. Focus on $$$? Why? This isn't an egomaniac in a garage or a meth head in a basement - these are guys who have produced. "Pinball is hard" so yes there are delays and issues, but these guys have it together. All the evidence is clear...no one is blind.

Totally agree with this. I do not not NOT think at all that this pin is vapor. It is legitimate. It still commands long lines at expo. Sound is fine as is and likely user modifiable unofficially and in unsupported fashion.

If Jaap didn't like the initial production run, and delayed so they could up the quality, his priorities are straight. Better slow at this point, given this is a legitimate business, and produced well than rushed and poor quality.

#741 4 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

You can definitely get your $$$ back.
I personally feel the game is over-budget or at least very close to it. If you disagree with me, at least make your counterpoint.
The exchange rate is hurting the bottom line for those doing business in Europe. The Euro took a beating over the last year, but it is still in DP's favor to get this game out ASAP and sell as many as possible before the Euro is in line with the US dollar.
China's economy has a bad cold right now and it's about to give the rest of the world the cooties in the very near future. Don't believe for a second that China can't implode. And let's not pretend there isn't a real estate/tech bubble in the US, Canada, UK, Australia, China, and elsewhere. This and the fact that 2016 is an election year in the US. Our job market may be doing well right now, but people aren't getting raises and Millennials aren't spending. Retirement costs are rising faster than Social Security benefits. I could go on. Wait until April when the corporate Q1 '16 earning reports start coming out. It is going to start getting rocky. This affects all of us. Any pin collector should think twice about their NIB purchases (and financial strength) moving forward. We're technically overdue for what lies ahead. And don't be surprised to see a surplus of pins and other "toys" for sale over the next few years as people prioritize their discretionary income (or deal with job losses). I'm willing to bet money with anyone that doubts what I'm stating here.
I think DP would love to charge more for this game, but do what you have to do. At least, keep these economic factors in mind. If you're going to pull the trigger, why spend more later?

I'm not an expert in international business by any means, but the exchange rate only bites dp in the ass when they have to convert euros to dollars, right? In fact, if they havea sizable amount of preorder money in dollars from 1-2 years ago, before they became much more valuable vs the euro, then shouldn't that be HELPING a lot? And if, in fact, DP intends to so more future business in dollars, shouldn't they simply keep their dollar sales as dollars, using them to fund purchases required to be in dollars?

1 month later
#949 3 years ago

Theoretically, since I know licensing laws are different in different countries, couldn't DP make an EU edition, that uses more extensively the music and video clips with proper clip length, etc. But also make a US edition that is more nerfed, but compliant with licensing?

#975 3 years ago

C'mon, Jaap! Bring it on home, dude!

3 weeks later
#998 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I talked to Barry last week - all good news! Should be a new newsletter soon!

And the race between The Hobbit and The Big Lebowski continues to be close...

2 months later
#1115 3 years ago

Who is this "Mark It Dude," and why are they shipping him?

#1135 3 years ago
Quoted from d0n:

The big lebowski?! What's next... dukes of hazzard or Magnum PI?
I personally cant think of a worse pin theme than the big lebowski. It wasnt even that good of a movie. It'll surely be a dud as a pinball game.

Wow! Magnum PI!

#1148 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Maybe he could re-theme hardbody into a sweet ass Magnum P.I. Pin

image_(resized).jpeg

You KNOW we needs a Higgins Multiball! YEAH!

And I know what a PERFECT topper would look like...

Screenshot-2015-06-22-21.28.56[1]_(resized).png

3 weeks later
#1233 3 years ago

I hate crickets.

#1243 3 years ago

Wow! First Hobbit, now this.

Close race between the two!!

10 months later
#3247 2 years ago

While this is obviously not good information, it helps to know that all the main players involved have significant skin in the game and hence incentive to resolve it amicably.

There is significant amount already sunk into this project in terms of licensing, design, and even construction by all parties involved.

This is not a JPop/SkidB situation at all.

So if it only takes a little bit more lighter fluid to get this fire lit, I still remain pretty confident it will happen. The incremental costs versus payout once one forgets sunk costs is just too small.

Waiting for this poker match to play out, however, sucks balls. Time is a bigger expense than uncertainty for this.

#3280 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

No, that's why I have two of the top ten games made ever in my house right now with JJPs logo on them. Fiasco? I guess our definitions of fiasco differ wildly! LOL!

We should have more fiascoes like WOZ and TH.

#3358 2 years ago
Quoted from taz:

I thought the update was great as well, for seemingly such a minor number change. Hopefully they can advance the code during this dispute and get back on track shipping games soon.

Right: don't look at this situation as "Contractual disagreement causes pinball delay."\

Look at it as, "Pinball title to be shipped with completed code!"

2 weeks later
#3640 2 years ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

So not a peep yet from DP on any of this or in response to the various statements made by ARA? Man I really want this game and have admittedly cancelled my order and got my refund. I hope for the best but suspect the worst here....

To some degree, I find their limited response reassuring and consistent with how a responsible party involved in prospective legal action behaves. As opposed to morons who type out poorly thought but legally admissible statements on internet forums.

Could be just old-fashioned take-the-money-and-run, but I don't think that's consistent with DP behavior. And so much money has already been sunk into this that all the parties involved should have a large incentive to work this out, invest the relatively little more effort required to make more pins, and reap the crop.

So unhappy, but not pitchforky yet.

1 week later
#3800 2 years ago

Off topic.
I love that my wife hates that I love Family Guy.

#4077 2 years ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

We all knew there would be no refunds after the game went into production. If you want to go after someone, sue ARA not DP.

The game is in production?

#4147 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Right now Kevin Kulek and John Popaduik are saying: "Thank you Jesus".....

Okay, I admit it. I laughed.

#4148 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Dutch created the drama.
Dutch fucked it up.
Maybe it feels good to skapegoat me - that doesn't change the fact that Dutch Pinball are fuck ups and liars.

I wouldn't scapegoat you ever. This is frustrating for all of us.

On another note, what does a director for a cartoon like Family Guy do, exactly?
Do you get to fly to Seoul to stand behind a bunch of animators telling them to draw it again, but better this time?
Or do you just have to convince McFarlane to lay off the coke in exchange for some Mel Torme records?
I ask because I'm considering a career change...

#4149 2 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

You should ask Kevin Kulek, he's got first-hand experience.

I'm increasingly pessimistic, but there ARE some significant differences between this and Predator. The biggest is that there IS an ACTUAL product that is all but produced in terms of design, licensing, heck even field testing at this point. So hope remains.

#4324 2 years ago

Is it possible this is a currency exchange issue? That one party expected to be paid in one currency but the other expected to pay in another? That agreements were made when exchange rate between guilders and dollars were significantly different? It would explain some stalling we see on both ARA's and DP's ends...

#4351 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

No.
And the Dutch don't use guilders any more.

well... euros anyway.

shucks.

#4421 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

"If you can keep your head about you while everyone else around you is losing theirs, then you clearly don't understand the situation."

Well, we're risking it all on a game of pitch and toss...

#4425 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

I just love the quote from Vin Scully in "For Love of the Game" so the situation seemed fitting.

I didn't know it was from that.
I think BEFORE that it is Rudyard Kipling's poem, "If."

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

Source: A Choice of Kipling's Verse (1943)

2 months later
#4986 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Dutch holiday was end of last week. Looks to be another one next Monday. Not that these really factor much anymore given the current status.

Maybe it would be easier to be patient if someone could provide us the dates on the calendar which are not Dutch holidays. Thanks!

#5055 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It was obvious from early on that Phil knew these guys were a couple of dipshits
They have lied and F ed people over from day one for their own benefit.
I had fully paid after Expo and thankfully Phil sent all the money back that he had control over.
What a cluster F

I let my desire for a TBL get the better of me. Classic con. I wanted it too badly.

Poorer and smarter I hope.

#5137 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Not sure if they have any more travel plans at this point - but IMO they should be BANNED from any more Pinball Shows/Events until things are worked out. As it stands, too many pinball customers are sitting here screwed. Same goes for Andrew Heighway, John Popadiuk, and Kevin Kulek....none should be allowed at pinball shows. If they show their faces, I think there's cause to call the police...as it stands, they've all stolen from us.

I can live with this.

#5268 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Where can one order a 20th anniversary LE?

20th anniversary of the film?
Or 20th anniversary since pin paid for?

1 week later
#5638 2 years ago

Okay, so what I'm getting as the story(for those who paid up front):

2019 or bust.

10
#5648 2 years ago

Yeah, it feels like a fine line between "waiting on finding a reliable contracted manufacturer" versus "paying DP managers salaries until there's no money left to pay their salaries."

Quoted from Foxis:

They are still in business because they still have some assets left in the form of preorder money. They are burning through the money that should have been used to produce the machines. Sad, but pretty much irrefutable at this point.

#5726 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

So you might as well take it out as when you leave it in the company you have to company tax on it.

It still creates no compulsion to take it out. If you leave it in, the company pays taxes on $44k. If you take it out, the company or individual pays taxes on $44k, plus the company loses $44k. It speeds up the bleeding.

Once money is regularly coming in, THEN it's the time to take out a (reasonable) salary.

#5732 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinbally_1968:

Have you read my post? what are you talking about, keeping this subject going on and on to keep you busy?

Lighten up, Francis.
I was politely referring to someone else's post entirely.
The one whose quote was quoted, who suggested that they might as well take a salary if they were going to be taxed anyway.

I disagreed.

Nothing to do with your sabbatical post. Calm down.

#5750 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

At least one of the rugs belongs to me. I am pretty sure DP pissed on it.

I think they shat on mine.

Yeah, I know that wasn't in the movie.

#5786 2 years ago

I admit I haven't been the most patient person in the world and frustrated by this project, backing it more with my heart than my head. And suspecting that I was (and still might) get burned as a result.

But I think I'll just enjoy this last update for now.

I have to admit that I found the last video convincing that Barry and Jaap sincerely loved their project and wanted DP to make it with them at the helm. I was impressed that DP pursued and maintained the license with what must have been a considerable financial and time investment. I also was impressed that they developed the manufacturing process/manuals itself for ARA to build TBL, and hence knew it inside and out, and were not held hostage by any ARA proprietary knowledge.. It suggested to me that they were invested not just financially in this project, but heart and soul. And in that respect, I didn't question their honesty (which is more than can be said for others in this hobby...).

I just question(ed) the competence... which is another way of saying I questioned whether the money was (is) there.

But if they truly have secured a quality manufacturer, then it appears all ingredients of honesty, competence, license, and money, are there. My patience? Well, I'm working on it.

Hopefully, Barry and Jaap getting to develop and know intimately the production process for TBL while ARA apparently struggled(?) will prove invaluable with this new manufacturer.

A lot can still go wrong, so until a quality, complete, TBL arrives at each of our locations, a healthy dose of skepticism must remain. And we've got a LOT of waiting to go, even if everything goes smoothly from here on out (a BIG if...).

But this last DP newsletter message is good.

White Russian.

10 months later
#7078 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Now that Farsight’s Pinball Arcade app has lost all the B/W tables, they’re prob desperate for content. Maybe Dutch should approach Farsight & license Lebowski to them. As much as I have disdain for this whole situation, if Lebowski pinball was on Nintendo Switch for $10, I’d buy it. They’d prob sell a ton on iOS, Steam, PS4, etc....could help financial problems & put out free advertising for the game.
You’re welcome, DP.

Brilliant flipping idear./not sarcasm

Wouldn't there be licensing issues, however?

#7094 1 year ago

So is the dream finally dead?
Any one have Xytech contacts, since DP no longer updating?
Options for collective action for those who have lost money with DP directly?

#7373 1 year ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

HD - This is for you. Everyone else, please get ready to down vote I hope I get at least 16 this time.
The 20 or 40 games at ARA wouldn't count as they were never "delivered" but lets work the numbers and see how ARA comes out.
30% delivery on a contract that was over due by over seven months leaves -70% due on the contract . Terrible numbers, one could say "failing" numbers or another legal term is "fundamental breach".
The amount owed was always the question. DP wanted the original price and ARA wanted the new price even though they did not meet the contract terms or
the second agreed terms. I don't blame DP, I wouldn't pay extra for services not received. If someone ever gives you bill for services you did not receive it's in your right not to pay it until they provide you a correct bill.
DP did say to start over with a new CM and sue at the same time would not be possible. They wanted to get our games out then sue ARA for what happened. They had years to file - getting our games out was the priority suing would take place after.
ARA sees this as a win-win. Bankrupt DP and win, lose in court and write it all off.
Lets see how the courts view this, if it makes it to court.
I did offer DP more money when the ARA thing first hit, they declined. I also offered more cash last week, they declined again. I'm not affiliated with DP, I'm only an EA - our game is number 77.
I do believe in the project and the dream to play against people from all over the world and I still have no reason to believe that will not happen. It is a great game, the best original title in the last 20 years IMHO. -EL

I hope you are right.
But then again, that's all that's left: hope.
Philgate and DP's history of underreporting the facts do not make me enthusiastic at all.

9 months later
#8618 8 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So when are Barry & Jaap going to give people back their money? My friend is still paid in full. He's not a Pinsider. This silence will not stand, man.

I was hoping to hear original soundtrack.
But all I'm hearing are crickets.

3 weeks later
#8734 8 months ago

When is the deadline for DP and ARA to make an agreement before the court imposes one?

2 weeks later
#8796 7 months ago

This thread is great for when I'm feeling pretty good about things and just need something to make me feel a bit like crap.

1 month later
#8910 5 months ago

They don't even have the guts nor decency to tell us they pissed it all away.

2 weeks later
#8961 4 months ago

If they start delivering games, even to New money, things change. I appreciate many in the hobby won't touch DP until EAers are happy.

But I'll bet many more nonPinsiders and nonpinheads won't give a shit and will just buy.

The question then becomes does the momentum gained from New sales from selling old ARA inventory (shafting EAers again in the process) will be enough to restore confidence to float further sales to do a 1-to-1 ratio of new sale production: EA sale production.

But we're still light years away from even that.

It's a fairy tale until any deliveries actually come in to ANYONE, New money or otherwise.

#9154 4 months ago
Quoted from RobF:

There are two paths;
1) Boycott these 40 and no one gets the games. They go in the garbage. DP goes bankrupt. 0% chance EAs will get what they paid for.
2) Sell these 40 at the inflated price, settle with ARA and there is something greater than zero chance EA games are built before the end of time.
That doesn't mean you are wrong in your prediction, but really it is the only possibility left for pre-paid folks.
I am curious how Cointaker is protecting itself from paying for a container of half-assembled, half-corroded, non functional games?

That's about how I sees it, too.

#9161 4 months ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

I'm not surprised that NIB TBL's are being sold as part of the settlement. Hopefully they can restart production soon so EA's can be made whole. Will be interesting to see if it's a 1 to 1 ratio of EA to non EA machines produced or if they go with 1 to 2 or 1 to 3 ratio.
Looking forward to Barry sharing the plan. Sure, it's been a debacle, but at least there is progress being made and we can get beyond the ARA dispute. Would be a great Christmas present to the EA community if all EA machines are delivered this year.
Will also be interesting to see the price for the non EA machines going forward. Maybe they can do a Jesus edition at a higher price point that has a different translite. Same for a Donny or Walter edition. I don't see the game having the same appeal if they offer a stripped down version at a lower price point that doesn't have the upper playfield, etc.
With the way the pinball market has progressed, I think it's safe to say that seeing future production units at an $8,500 price point isn't realistic unless it's stripped down.

I'm going with 1:0 until proven otherwise, though I hope I'm wrong. But who knows? I think the faster they sell out those premades allocated for New money, the better, in terms of odds that EAs get their machines.

Not a bad idea for a Jesus edition, but that opens up the licensing can of worms.

Besides, these are ALL "Hail Mary" editions.

#9192 4 months ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I have not kept up with this thread. The 40 games sold out instantly?

Then they underpriced them.

1 week later
#9461 4 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Barry will supposedly be doing an upcoming podcast interview with Jonathan Joosten (Pinball Magazine) & Martin Ayub (Pinball News).
The podcast release date is unknown at this point.

Spoiler alert:
"Sorry.
Now fuck off."

1 month later
#10373 3 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I've been thinking about this a lot in lieu of current events.
Now that ARA is supposedly made whole, Dutch Pinball is reportedly in possession with all these parts (supposedly enough to build a couple hundred machines).
It seems the biggest equation so solve here would be how to make the EA whole in a way that makes economic sense.
If they don't have the funds to start manufacturing these again, what about other alternatives?
Maybe I'm way off base as I haven't put that much thought into the logistics, but what if they shipped the EAs all the parts in the cabinet to build their machine as a kit?
Sure, it would be a lot of work on the EAs part, but seems like it would be worth it.
If you paid $8500 up front, the last 40 games sold out at $12,500 so there is economic as well as the emotional incentive to do it.
They could ship a cabinet with everything included to put the game together at home.
It might take you a few weeks to a few months or longer depending on your skillset, but at least they would get something.
Or if there is a good pinball tech in your area, I'm sure they would put it together for you for around the cost of a restore or full tear down shop job.
With really good instructions you would only need a basic knowledge of tool and soldering.
I know its not the ideal situation, but I was running scenarios though my head and thought of this.

Has ARA been "made whole"? Or do they still have claims?

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