(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (2 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (1 year ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)


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#11 4 years ago

Without words

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#23 4 years ago

It would help people to find it if it would be transferred to the Dutch pinball sub forum. I also stumbled on it by accident

2 months later
#96 4 years ago

Be patient, Q2 is not over yet Our money is put at work with DP

TBL befor TH, would that not be something great if DP could pull this off? Chances are growing for this

11
#125 4 years ago

I can testify that Barry is still alive so if you wanna know DP is still alive, yep see enclosed picture for proof.

I met him yesterday evening, dutch pinball association magazine meeting, and as a future TBL owner I can say I sleep without worries

image.jpg
1 week later
#149 4 years ago

Nice newsletter but several pictures are lacking in this thread. Now not anymore

TBL1.png TBL2.png TBL4.png
#165 4 years ago

Really hope they will start shipping end of Q2 but it will be a close call (only 8 weeks left after all). So many parts go in the TBL and it only takes 1 vendor with delay to f*ck it up.

Anyway, even if it becomes start-mid Q3 I will still be impressed. Philgate did cost a lot of time to we have to remember. This time would otherwise have been spent on TBL development.

1 week later
#220 4 years ago

Good list from pinballslave. Little bird told me answers won't take long

Good idea the FAQ. Avoids DP having to answer same question over and over and reassures the customers that things are moving

2 weeks later
#270 4 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

Hey Guys....
No protectors on the ramps....from testing, there are no ball hits that strike the front of the ramp.
Fasteners will be both....but to be clear, Flipper assemblies and wear out parts will be off the shelf Imperial. Any of the fasteners that are metric will be easily available at a hardware store.

I have asked Barry this months ago and the answer at that moment was yes, there will be protectors.

Apparently testing afterwards has proven not required? As I am Always very protective about my pins (they all have Cliffy's for instance), I am still hoping for them

2 weeks later
#304 4 years ago

Great newsletter excellent

As they say: pictures or it didn't happen. Now, pictures are there

#305 4 years ago
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#307 4 years ago
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#326 4 years ago

Met Barry today at Dutch Pinball association meeting (www.nfvpinball.nl). Good vibes and talk.

Also designer JP de win was there.

Lot of things are in motion and moving forward

Have skin in the game and will sleep well tonight. With the recent bad news on jpop I thought would be nice to share my experience of today

Meeting was in Netherlands by the way, not in Fiji were some person suggests barry lives nowadays .......

#329 4 years ago

I am a customer, not owner of DP unfortunately so not my place to say yes or no to factory visits.

I am sure hoping that once everything is functional and production running they will organize it. At Chicago expo that would set you back usd 50 per person by the way .....

#342 4 years ago

#163 ordered nov expo

#350 4 years ago

All pre orders are expected to be delivered this year so us at the end of the line should not have to wait so much longer. But it will feel like forever !!!!

4 weeks later
#439 4 years ago

Very very cool

Top work from the Netherlands

2 months later
#554 4 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

I don't mind the stars gone from the apron, as I'm still old school and need the instruction cards there.
BUT I would really miss the illuminated Big Lebowski emblem in the center so I hope at least that one returns to the production machines.

That emblem wasn't illuminated as I remember it. Just looks that way in the picture on previous page. Reflection of light I think or very bright paint.

#558 4 years ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

I would venture a bet there needs to be a slight modification to the apron for the achiever emblem. I don't know where else they would put it.

Wasn't there a picture when they announced the emblem where is it was shown mounted on the chrome rail on top side of apron? It isn't a huge emblem after all

3 weeks later
#720 4 years ago
Quoted from karl:

That was a nice news-letter. I am glad that there still might be an option for the apron, and if it will be easy to exchange the music later on, then nothing is fu..ed here.
Only thing I am not so keen on is the female voice actor. Seems out of place in this game, but things like that can easily be changed bevoer
the game is done so no reason to worry about stuff like that yet.
Everything else looks to be hunky dory.

It is already mentioned in the NSN that female voice will change

Yep good NSN.

#754 4 years ago

Big part of Holland is below seal level so we don't need a floating TBL, we all know how to swim

However, rest assured. DP factory lies in the part which is above sea level

1 week later
#761 3 years ago

Just finished prepping 60 pins for transport for DPO

Can state at least 1 pin made in NL will be there

Can you guess which one ?

And guys, no worries, I will inform you from DPO what's happening on the floor. It will be all fun for sure

image_2.jpeg

#763 3 years ago

Nop, it is not a DP pin but made in NL

#764 3 years ago

Hint: 2 years ago hit in Chicago

#766 3 years ago

Come on guys, you can see a part of green on the cabinet corner, how can you miss it

#768 3 years ago

Yep it was to subtle, for me at least ...

Talking of special pins

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1 week later
#797 3 years ago

Good question. Next show would be TPF I think but the next news should be I think a NSN on showing delivery of the first machine

1 week later
#812 3 years ago

November 20, 2015 - The Big Lebowski™ Pinball - DPO Update

Two weeks ago we were present at the DPO (Dutch Pinball Open) with 5 TBL ES's (Engineering Samples) to test them.

Unfortunately we still encountered some mechanical and electronical problems that we have to solve before the machines go in production. All of the issues we had are now isolated and are currently being processed by the engineering team. We expect the altered ES's to be ready in a few weeks for final testing. This way we can be sure to build the best and most reliable TBL pinball machine possible.

A wise man once said: "Making Pinball Machines Is Hard"... This is true... But, we are very close to finalize the machine for production. We can't wait to box these babies up and ship them to your homes!

Dutch Pinball Open Presentation
At the Dutch Pinball Open we gave a presentation - similar to the Pinball Expo presentation - about TBL.

You can click here to watch to the presentation (43:20).

One of the sections in the presentation is about the changes between the prototypes and the production model. In the Expo presentation we showed some of the big changes, but we also wanted to show some of the other changes... •The custom launch button we used broke down on the prototypes, so we had to replace it with a 'standard' (orange) launch button.
•The plastics are of much better quality and we added a plastic on the Mini playfield (Spell Bowling).
•We added a spot light on the rug.
•We now use light pipes for GI which works and looks perfect.
•We changed the sticker on the spinner.
•Left Ramp Diverter was re-engineered and is much smoother now.
•The Bowling Alley Exterior on the Mini Playfield now has a full color decal based on the Holy Star Lanes Bowling Alley from the movie.
•The Ball Return Rack is now made of polished metal.
•The White Russian is now leveled perfectly with a 6.5 degree angle and instead of a straw we now use a much more sturdy stirrer.
•We changed the character inserts from starburst to smooth inserts.
•The DOT resolution has been changed from 192x64 to 272x102 dots.
•The Bowling Alley now has a much better playfield, also made by Mirco.
•... and many, many more little details which would make this list way too long!

New Apron & Music
At the Dutch Pinball Open we also introduced the new apron and the new music. Our solution for the apron to keep ‘everybody happy’ made everybody happy! Also the male voice for the custom call outs and the new music were very well received.

Dutch Pinball welcomes Geert Koop!
We are happy to welcome Geert Koop to the Dutch Pinball Team! Geert will take care of painting and finishing the toys. Some of you already may know Geert and his perfectionism when it comes to painting pinball toys.

Pictures
We know you all love photos and pictures. We don't have any particular photos selected for this newsletter, but here are some random pictures from the last couple of weeks, enjoy!

Preparation of the Engineering Samples

So many parts...

The Bowling Alley sub-assembly station.

It's uh, it's down there somewhere. Lemme take another look.

Education is so important.

These rugs have sentimental value to us.

The TBL display panels.

Our distributors' visit to The Netherlands

We invited our authorized / preferred distributors Cointaker (USA) and Nitro Amusements (Canada) to visit the Dutch Pinball Open and the factory in The Netherlands so they could see our production facility in person.

This way they had a chance to meet te people who are doing the engineering and production and also learned about some of the mechanical and electronic details of the games.

Well... That's it for now! We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more
'new shit' to show you guys!

Until then, stay tuned.

Best regards,
Team Dutch Pinball

#813 3 years ago

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#814 3 years ago

Great newsletter !!

#827 3 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Enjoy...I'm Out!

May I ask why you want out? This last newsletter clearly show the progress made and that DP is working hard to get us our pins

#838 3 years ago

Thanks for the pics. Looks great

Hope this puts an end to all rumors DP is a fake company or not serious. These guys are real and are very serious in their attempt to make a quality product. making pinball is only proven to be a bumpy road and a hard job ...

#881 3 years ago

Yep, PDXMonkey was there. He even helpt on Friday setting up a lot of pins. Thanks Again John !!

DPO2015 (162).jpg

#899 3 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

But if they refund through papal the fee is refunded too.

This is only true when refunds are done during the first 60 days after payment

Refunds After 60 Days

If the buyer requests a refund more than 60 days after the original transaction date, you will not be able to issue a refund through the Transaction History page. Instead, you will need to use the regular "Send Money" function on PayPal. When you issue a refund in this manner, you will not be able to recoup the selling fees.

So, this is after 60 days so the approx 3% fees applied remain with PayPal . DP didnt keep thus any of the buyers money, its with Paypal

2 weeks later
#968 3 years ago

Yep, good newsletter even when it is short

The end of the waiting is near !!

#973 3 years ago

Hang in there guys. Dutchmen don't let anyone down so don't worry.

Have you seen bop20? Awesome work and they will excel even more for sure with their first pin. Theme is holy to DP and TBL will live up to it, no worries

3 weeks later
#986 3 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Can I still pre order this game?

Preordering stopped beginning of 2015/end 2014

You can now order with cointaker for the US

#1001 3 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Hey there Dudes,
Don't know if everyone has seen this video of gameplay of TBL.
It was posted November 11th 2015 on Dutch Pinball's Facebook page.
Have a look:
» YouTube video

Nice video. Wonder who made it Good times at DPO

Further more the DP team made it to Dutch pinball association New Years reception and enjoyed some time off. Hmmm, is playing pinball time off for a pinball manufacturer

We all enjoyed a good time. Let's all not forget pinball is all about having a good time !!

And yes, work on TBL is continuing and looking good.

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2 weeks later
#1020 3 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

Really hope this is true!

Being Dutchman I went outside on the street and listened to the Street talking to me and yep, it's true

#1037 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Have heard sometimes them having communication delays with NSNL is that Universal has to approve aspects of those official communications as well and they aren't nearly in as big a hurry as we are. What I've heard anyway, second or third hand FWIW.
Anyways, do hope some positive news kicks loose soon like everyone else. Much longer and I may be out of pinball as a hobby before it gets here.

You nailed it. Licensing ain't easy.

#1039 3 years ago

Games can and will only ship with approved code so YouTube will be no issue of course. Videos like I made at dpo are also of approved code

Licensing ain't easy, but not impossible

And yes, unexpected delay is always frustrating for us waiters and reason for wild unfounded speculations

DP will get there as always, no worries

#1052 3 years ago

Trying to re arrange my work schedule in Order to be able to go early. Think it will work out, to be finalized on Monday. And yes, I will bring my camera(s)

In regard to software, guess it all depends on Universal what we will see. I am hopeful for some positive surprises.

1 week later
#1081 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Hensbrooker hasn't logged in since mid-Jan. but hoping he'll come back to let us know if there's a game in his house

Strangely enough he also wasn't at the VIP party, hope nothing has happened to him. Never met him in person though but asked Barry at VIP party who he was to shake hands but Barry told he me they got no response on the invite

3 weeks later
#1120 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Anyone in the preorder club going to Jaap's talk today?

Yep, I am. To my best knowledge TPF is not streaming and also not filming the seminars

#1126 3 years ago

So, seminar has ended

Have recorded it but need my computer at home to get it on the Internet. So that will be more by the mid-end of the week, sorry guys

In regard to the seminar, first shipments to end customers (so not preproduction units contaiker and nitro are getting) are planned two weeks from now. So hope nothing goes wrong and unboxing vids should be appearing soon

For the rest no shocking material. A lot of slides on how the planning of software is moving along

Pinballnews did an audio recording. Hopefully that is sooner up but will be missing a lot of info as pictures were used a lot by Jaap

#1150 3 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

I don't know what we would do without Rensh. He is our global TBL pINSIDER. Many thanks for all that you do and have done.

You make me blush but thanks. A job I gladly do. Being Dutch makes it easier for me as I feel very envolved with DP

These two machines are the same as at dpo expo November 2015 but than upgraded to last hardware. One was out for a few hours because of a broken coil. Some bad luck there due to a single manufacturing error

Last code was also on the machines

We are at the very edge of seeing these boys shipped and enjoyed in homes

In regard to the question on shipping. It will be a consolidated container shipment to the US as far as I know. Makes also the most sense. If you wanna spring for the extra costs in airfreight this is possible ofcourse

#1156 3 years ago

see the TPF2016 DP seminar at

Some of your questions might be answered

#1190 3 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

I couldn't agree with this more. It's ridiculous that we have to rely on people like Rensh to provide updates when DP should be communicating with us directly. As for the code, I can only hope that what we're seeing is still very early - the website used to talk about pinball 2.0, and what we've seen is hardly revolutionary.
As an aside, thank you Rensh for putting in so much effort for keeping us in the loop, it's very much appreciated.

Calm down. DP knows upfront I am recording their seminars and posting it on Pinside and thus they can concentrate on getting the games out.

So if me posting videos means DP is getting attacked as I do it and they not I can better stop and let DP do it on their time and slow the process down if this is what is desired by the community. Somewhere I have the feeling however as this is not what most of us want

And yes, if it is game changing info VIPs should get it same time as a seminar but their was no such info in this seminar. Should Jaap stand in front of a mirror and record his speech to put it in Pinside prior to TPF? No is my opinion

I think DP is giving a lot more info on what they are doing as others do. Have you ever seen a seminar from Stern showing pinball rules, software developments etc.? Also visited John Trudeau seminar at TPF and GB is a nice pin, enjoyed playing it, but if you think John told anything on software etc you are mistaking. And yes, it was an entertaining seminar

Than about current software status. I know for a fact that JP de Win and Barry and Koen are locked in a room, not being allowed to leave it and occasionally a hamburger is thrown into the room to make good progress on software. Time first being spent to get production up and running is now freed for software developments (meaning not only inventing rules but also animations etc).

You can state that game is already long in development but how much can you do without approval of universal? And that took forever Licensing is really hard

Approval is now there for like 200 clips or so, so now some real progress can finally be made

Also their was a change from Windows (BOP2.0) to current Linux (TBL and future pins) which took time to redevelop their software tools.

Believe me, they are working hard but making pinball ain't easy and the last part is always the most difficult part. Especially for us buyers as we can already smell the game which makes us even want to have it more thus waiting gets more and more difficult. He, I am number 164, I have to wait still a lot longer as most of you Do you hear me complaining?

So chill out and enjoy the unboxing videos expected within a few weeks

And yes, always their will be people who will think TBL is not great but that's all about taste. Some people like blonds and some brunettes after all

#1195 3 years ago

Barry and Koen who are developing the rules are tournament players themselves, just like Lyman Sheat.

You can bet your life on it they will create an interesting gameplay as this how they want to have it also as a player.

They are in this for the idealism and pinball hart, don't think you are starting up a pinball factory in order to get rich .....

So give them a couple of weeks to deliver the pin's, mature the software befor stating capital letters that it is a total let down.

And sd_tom, keep the ideas coming can't garantuee it but good chance a DP man sees it and might think, hmm, good idea

#1201 3 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Well, some of these posts have talked me off of the ledge. Thank you, fellas.

Good. The dude abides

#1205 3 years ago

How can you finish codes without approval for clips and so on from Universal? You need to have that first so you can truely finalize your thoughts

Anyway, rest assure, it will become great and current rug modes are To be changed to

Code development is under full steam, stay tuned and be prepared to be amazed

2 weeks later
1 week later
#1270 3 years ago

Guys, sorry to spoil the party but I got word that this TBL will remain in box

Expansion in the family apparently changed priorities which is understandable. Will Hensbrooker unbox in the future or resell it? Time will tell

number 3 is expected to get his TBL on his doorstep next week so unboxing pictures will happen soon anyway !!

#1280 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I know where #3 is going and it's not far from me, sounds like this dude is going to be paying a visit to a monkey I know.

This monkey will garantueed unbox it

#1302 3 years ago

Good that you decided after all to unbox it

Looks great. Now DP speed up production as soon as your move to a bigger hall is completed and pump out these beauties

#1313 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Bigger hall? Larger production line in one of ARA's other buildings?

Correct

#1328 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Anybody know if any of these will be on location in Amsterdam or Utrecht next month?
How about at spirit coffee house?

In Utrecht there is a pub called the Little Lebowski. Would not be surprised if ........

#1359 3 years ago

Hoping for some vids soon. Little birds tell me that the installed code will reveal new shit to light compared to the version shown at TPF

#1376 3 years ago

Congrats PDX with getting your game
Us fellow abiders can only be jealous of you

Perhaps version 0.56 means 56% done of what the initial goal is when it comes to software? Just a wild guess. I know for sure DP will not rest to have the total package done as beautiful as possible . So have piece of mind on this.

2 weeks later
#1443 3 years ago

Met Barry today at a Dutch pinball competition so can confirm he still hasn't made it to the Fiji islands :

Everything is going well he confirmed

Waiting is just so hard, damned

#1495 3 years ago

Somebody is l having fun with his TBL . I think he was, not serialno, delivery no. 3.

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#1502 3 years ago

Have a GnR as a place filler for an 163 I believe.

To celebrate this latest NSN I made my GnR feel more like a TBL

Remember folks, pinball is all about having fun

#1568 3 years ago

No worries. Thanks for posting. Good to see finally more activity from those who already have the machine.

Will now get even more restless to have mine

1 week later
#1673 3 years ago

Gonna be a good day today Leaving for DP factory in a hour for a visit

Will report in https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/factory-visit-dp-ara-10th-june-2016#post-3193807

#1676 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Does anyone here know what those rotisseries are they they use at DP? Pre-fab or custom? I'd like one of those...

Made by the factory themselves. If yoiu can built a pinball a rotisserie is easy

1 week later
#1692 3 years ago
Quoted from LadySlingshot:

Sounds simple enough. I'm considering a TBL but want more reviews to roll in. Any clue how many have shipped?

My guess is 4 are with customers now and like 16 in total are produced but filling a container is required to have the remaining 12 shipped. I read some talk of filling half a container?

But than still their is shipment time overseas by boat so TBL hitting customers homes in bigger quantity is like 8 weeks away? Wild but educated guess I think/hope

#1696 3 years ago

Barry setting ES4 Up

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2 weeks later
#1736 3 years ago

ShIt, 160 kg

I have to move it upstairs so I will feel every kg. Lucky enough easy to seperate backbox from cabinet and take playfield out should be rather simple

In 3 parts it should be doable.

#1737 3 years ago
Quoted from Deaconblooze:

From memory, 3 weeks.

Typical it is indeed 3 weeks however I understood it is 2 weeks in this case but not full capacity for a few weeks more. So a more spread holiday

#1743 3 years ago

Dp has repeatedly said that all pre orders will be shipped this year. Highest known pre order serialnumber is approx 200. I estimate production is now like 5 pcs per week and slowly increasing. When I was there like 5 weeks ago they were testing serialnumbers up to 16 and now they are close to 40?

First run of machines is 300. This leaves like 100 to none pre-orders? Like ordered via CT or Nitro? If they do all pre orders this year I would guess the extra 100 will be like 10-15 weeks? For sure they should be than at a production rate of around 10 a week? So dependable on where you are between 200-300 this would set you first or second quarter 2017

Pls note my guessing is about production time and doesn't include waiting time for containers to fill, shipping etc.

Sofar my educated guesses but we all know how bumpy the road can be of pinball manufacturers. If you would have ordered a MMr in NL you still dont have it for example. First delivery of TBL in NL was sooner ...

#1744 3 years ago
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:

Good news on that part mine has moved two floors and for sure I'm not taking the beast upstairs in one part!
Removed the backglass (damn heavy!), backbox (by removing screws from inside backbox). Luckily there are a very few connectors to be disconnect the backbox.
Also need to get PF out which at first seemed to be problem since cablebooms were strangled (by tie wraps) but cutting a couple + disconnecting a couple of connectors ON the PF-Board it was surprisingly easy!
So quite an doable task after all (well done DP!)
Tip of the Day: when having the PF out of the cabinet and before reinstalling I would recommend to stick a strip of soft liner/band on the PF side to prevent future scratching on the nice even black cabinet finish!! I bought roll of sticky tick tack band and just use the 'soft side'.

Good to hear, thanks !! Even better to read you like to enough to take the effort to move it upstairs

#1761 3 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

What's the cutoff number? I'm 30. That picture makes it look like 24/25/26 are the last ones in.
Very cool regardless.

You are gonna be one happy dude. Serialnumber 30 is the last in the truck, you made it !!!

#1766 3 years ago

Already there is backlog for container 2 so shouldn't be to long. Container two will I think be a normal size so can take like 40 pins?

30+40 makes serialnumber 70 as last one but there will be some European ones in those numbers to so perhaps up to 75-80?

#1807 3 years ago

Guys, relax.

By the time all pre orders are fulfilled DP will have an European sales point. Be patient pls. Take it from me that it will not be necessary to go via US once pins are readily available for sale as pre orders are fulfilled

#1809 3 years ago

In Europe no official distributor(s) is/are appointed (yet)

#1819 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

you mean MoP did not get the right to propose this pin on their website and take pre-orders?

I mean DP has not appointed any distributor(s) in Europe (yet). I leave the rest to your imagination.

If I were you I would tell your friend to wait a couple of months and for sure don't order in US. See it as a positive sign that a new pinball manufacturer wants to deliver first all pre orders befor accepting new orders.

CT and Nitro I think are part of the first 300 pcs batch of which approx 200 were sold to the endusers direct. This leaves another 100 which I assume are going to CT and Nitro. When these 300 are produced than there is room and time for more distributors. DP has always stated this and is the reason they are not accepting themselves new orders.

And yep, let your friend pick up the phone if he wanna known more. Allthough I think a phone call to Hell is a true real long distance call

#1823 3 years ago

During pre order time DP did the sales direct. This is how the German person bought it.

In like April 2015 I think preorders closed and DP announced that new orders only possible when pre orders have been delivered. So they are not taken new money out of people's pockets knowing that it will take a long time to get then the pinball. I think this is a great attitude.

CT and Nitro bought a part of the first production run which is why they are now able to sell as a distributor. Setting up a new distributor without having pinballs for him to sell, what is the use ?

Anyway, production pre orders is running. End of the year all done and than up to regular sales via also an European channel than. If production steps up to like 10 a week after summer holiday it shouldn't take to long

#1826 3 years ago

Was a computer error. No gameplay, nothing thus to be seen so nothing missed

2 weeks later
#1977 3 years ago

Congrats Burningman. If anybody deserved to get his TBL Asap it is you

Now play it non-stop and let us know your findings after a couple of days !!

#1986 3 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

will do for sure!
by the way, I noticed 1 dimple on the playfield....would you know anything about that?

#2023 3 years ago

Jaap made it to the biggest Dutch national paper

Guess you guys will need to a crash course in Dutch now

image_(resized).jpeg

#2026 3 years ago
Quoted from karl:

Something lost in translation or have they up'd production considerably lately ?
"The first three hundred dozens of orders this week with the sea container arrived in the US"
Ref: Jaap interview using google translate
Edit: Also, we all know that 10 000$ is a lot of money but Jaap gives us a great reason to forget about that and just go for it:
"The shiny toy boxes cost $ 10,000, but then you have some."
Google Translate is your friend
PS! Great that they are getting a lot of coverage in the papers

Yep, google translate messed up. Correct translation would be several tenths of units on its way to the US. Not several 100s .....

2 weeks later
#2086 3 years ago

8/26/2016 - The Big Lebowski™ Pinball - August Update

Dear Rens,

The first container made it without any problems to the USA and we loved the funny comments on Pinside. Captain Jonathan Flores of the NYK Delphinus is a good man, and thorough .

Unfortunately, some truck services in the USA don’t treat a precious TBL with the love and care a pinball machine should have. We put Tip ’N tell and Drop ’N tell indicators on all games, but some couriers are really f-----g amateurs... Anyway, we are happy that Melissa and Chris from Cointaker are taking care of this. We know the Insurance company will pay but we would prefer the games to arrive safe and sound.

Also, the first problems occur. Sometimes the P-ROC can’t be found because one of the wires was disconnected during transport. We are working on a database with known issues, so you guys can check and see how to fix problems like this soon. We've seen posts on Pinside about some issues and people helping each other (which is fantastic!).

If you have an issue with your game, please contact us at support@dutchpinball.com and we will do everything we can to solve any problem or issue with the game. Please keep in mind that some issues we've seen are new to us and take some time to troubleshoot.

Holidays are over!
The ‘Bouwvak’, which is a compulsory Dutch holiday, is officially over for ARA which means that the production has started again. We now are working on games in the 40s range. We know you want your game as soon as possible, but we prefer building good quality games instead of building games (too) fast.

During the Bouwvak we had time to visit Grand Café Lebowski in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This is our test location. We combined this visit with an interview session with Jonathan Joosten (who lives right around the corner of Grand Café Lebowski) for Pinball Magazine. We talked about our project for almost 3 hours and realized how special this rollercoaster project has been until now. Jonathan will publish the interview in the next edition of Pinball Magazine which will be presented at Expo in Chicago (October 12-16).

Factory visit
On Friday, November 4th, 2016, we will organize a VIP Factory Visit. You will be welcomed at Apparatenfabriek ARA in Aalten at 2PM, meet Barry, Jaap, and probably other DP team members, followed by a factory tour. In the evening we will go to a hotel nearby to take you all to dinner and have a classic DP (with bowling!) party. The party also takes place the same hotel, so nobody has to drive... After the party, your hotel room will be ready for you as well as the breakfast buffet the next day. And there is more: the next Saturday and Sunday, the NFV (Dutch Pinball Association) organizes a Clubhouse Weekend. We have reserved 50 entry tickets for the Saturday so you can play pinball on more than 120 pinball machines in the NFV Clubhouse. There also will be a tournament split into multiple divisions so everyone can play their own level. A great opportunity to play a fantastic line-up... And of course, The Big Lebowski™ Pinball!!

As a thank you, the Early Achievers, our VIPs, have the first chance to register for this arrangement. We have a total of 50 tickets, and you can book this trip for €125 (including a 3- course dinner, bowling night, hotel room (one night: Friday to Saturday) and an entrance ticket for the Clubhouse Saturday). Please RSVP before September 16th. Just send an email to nsn@dutchpinball.com with your details and we will put you on the list. We need at least 30 participants but that shouldn't be a problem.
Please follow us on Facebook too. We also post news at:
https://www.facebook.com/dutchpinball

We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more 'new shit' to show you guys!

Until then, stay tuned.

Best regards,
Team Dutch Pinball
Follow us on facebook

8/26/2016 - The Big Lebowski™ Pinball - August Update

Dear Rens,

The first container made it without any problems to the USA and we loved the funny comments on Pinside. Captain Jonathan Flores of the NYK Delphinus is a good man, and thorough .

Unfortunately, some truck services in the USA don’t treat a precious TBL with the love and care a pinball machine should have. We put Tip ’N tell and Drop ’N tell indicators on all games, but some couriers are really f-----g amateurs... Anyway, we are happy that Melissa and Chris from Cointaker are taking care of this. We know the Insurance company will pay but we would prefer the games to arrive safe and sound.

Also, the first problems occur. Sometimes the P-ROC can’t be found because one of the wires was disconnected during transport. We are working on a database with known issues, so you guys can check and see how to fix problems like this soon. We've seen posts on Pinside about some issues and people helping each other (which is fantastic!).

If you have an issue with your game, please contact us at support@dutchpinball.com and we will do everything we can to solve any problem or issue with the game. Please keep in mind that some issues we've seen are new to us and take some time to troubleshoot.

Holidays are over!
The ‘Bouwvak’, which is a compulsory Dutch holiday, is officially over for ARA which means that the production has started again. We now are working on games in the 40s range. We know you want your game as soon as possible, but we prefer building good quality games instead of building games (too) fast.

During the Bouwvak we had time to visit Grand Café Lebowski in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This is our test location. We combined this visit with an interview session with Jonathan Joosten (who lives right around the corner of Grand Café Lebowski) for Pinball Magazine. We talked about our project for almost 3 hours and realized how special this rollercoaster project has been until now. Jonathan will publish the interview in the next edition of Pinball Magazine which will be presented at Expo in Chicago (October 12-16).

Factory visit
On Friday, November 4th, 2016, we will organize a VIP Factory Visit. You will be welcomed at Apparatenfabriek ARA in Aalten at 2PM, meet Barry, Jaap, and probably other DP team members, followed by a factory tour. In the evening we will go to a hotel nearby to take you all to dinner and have a classic DP (with bowling!) party. The party also takes place the same hotel, so nobody has to drive... After the party, your hotel room will be ready for you as well as the breakfast buffet the next day. And there is more: the next Saturday and Sunday, the NFV (Dutch Pinball Association) organizes a Clubhouse Weekend. We have reserved 50 entry tickets for the Saturday so you can play pinball on more than 120 pinball machines in the NFV Clubhouse. There also will be a tournament split into multiple divisions so everyone can play their own level. A great opportunity to play a fantastic line-up... And of course, The Big Lebowski™ Pinball!!

As a thank you, the Early Achievers, our VIPs, have the first chance to register for this arrangement. We have a total of 50 tickets, and you can book this trip for €125 (including a 3- course dinner, bowling night, hotel room (one night: Friday to Saturday) and an entrance ticket for the Clubhouse Saturday). Please RSVP before September 16th. Just send an email to nsn@dutchpinball.com with your details and we will put you on the list. We need at least 30 participants but that shouldn't be a problem.
Please follow us on Facebook too. We also post news at:
https://www.facebook.com/dutchpinball

We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more 'new shit' to show you guys!

Until then, stay tuned.

Best regards,
Team Dutch Pinball
Follow us on facebook
Email us

#2088 3 years ago

If you wanna have more info on the Clubhouse weekend CW2016 pls check https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ap585hMUVLvwh45IBjbhr1cvvcFyoQ

#2126 3 years ago

A container was shipped and delivered with serialnumbers up to 30.

#2127 3 years ago

http://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2115747/Amerikanen-worden-wild-van-Big-Lebowski-flipperkast-uit-Aalten

Local Dutch tv station did a small report on TBL. Time to brush up your Dutch

#2129 3 years ago

Let me translate the title: Americans are getting crazy from the big Lebowski from Aalten ......

So, are you really getting crazy is the question or is it the usual reporter nonsense

Also Jaap is stating that the typical buyer is a male person age 40-45 eating hamburgers and drinking beer, can you find yourself in this description

If not, guess you have to cancel

#2152 3 years ago

Is this not an awesome view

image (resized).png

1 week later
#2222 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

i suppose no european customer gets a pre-order of this one as DP has no european distributor yet?

A number of units were sold in Europe during the pre-order period. There are ones in Netherlands and Germany and Sweden I believe.

All pre-orders were direct placed with the factory, no distributor envolved at that moment.

1 week later
#2275 3 years ago

Not mine but no 58 also got the call/email

So things are still moving

#2291 3 years ago

My engineering degree says it's under an angle and gravity does the job

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#2299 3 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

I spent the weekend messing with my bowling alley. Its now working about 90% but still needs a little adjustment.
my understanding, (and I could be dead wrong) is...
The logic knows the ball is in the orange launcher. The launcher is going side to side with the ball in it. (In test mode, you can see it move across the screen either 1 swing, or in a loop.) When you hit the Ball launch button, the orange launcher stops, sending a signal of where that position is. The solenoid then pulls the ball stop down and the ball rolls towards the pins. The opto that runs across the alley tells the computer that the ball has passed and then tells the specific pins to pull up. Each pin has its own solenoid to pull the pins up.

Don, you are dead right

So it's a calculation process and not real detecting which pins are hit. The pins are pulled up which the software calculated to be hit.

#2309 3 years ago

Early achievers are those who bought direct at DP and didn't bail out during Philgate. For this they get a plaque. Don't know if via CT also early achievers are there.

Direct sales were around 200 units reported through serialnumbers at Pinside.

Checked with DP for you and your 85 is not serialnumber 85 so check with Melissa is the advise. Is it not so that sales via CT also came with a rug and chrome?

#2312 3 years ago

Chrome and rug are not purely early achievers property. They were just at a lower price in the beginning eg you paid more for this after a certain date but still could be obtained

Early achiever is done via the unique numbered plaque on the apron.

#2317 3 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

anyone figured out where I can grab 12volts from the cabinet?
coin door board is a little unfamiliar...

Isn't there a special 'mod' connector on the big board under the playfield. I have seen it in the factory but have no idea which pins are what.

However, I am sure you know people in the know

#2318 3 years ago

And stop using the travolta avatar. Now everybody thinks Pulp fiction is next for DP where you know that it is My little Pony

10
#2357 3 years ago

As pinbally_1968 already said his no 58 is now up and running and see below some pics on this

Playing flawless besides we had a ball stuck once in Jesus shot which we couldn't free with shaking. It didn't make it to the end and got somehow stuck in the lane. Under observation to see if this is a one time thing or not

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#2364 3 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Is there damage to the front decal above the coin door or is that some kind of artifact from the pic itself? Thx

No damage in real life. Picture is playing tricks with us in this case. But, must admit, you scared the owner for a brief moment as it looks so real on the picture

#2367 3 years ago
Quoted from orangestorm87:

Anyone know if Cointaker will have one at expo to check out?

For sure they will. I know the Dutch pinball team will be present at pinexpo and thus can't imagine TBL will not be there.

#2405 3 years ago

Poor Jaap

IMG_0391 (resized).PNG

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#2423 3 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Just heard on the latest Bro Do You Even Talk Pinball podcast that Jaap/DP will supposedly be speaking at Expo today after all.
4:00 PM CST

Don't know where this comes from but this is incorrect. Jaap is not at Pinexpo

1 week later
#2456 3 years ago

Looks like somebody is making sure the cable doesn't interfere with the Jesus lane

1 week later
#2480 2 years ago

A great combo of two of my favorite themes

IMG_0627 (resized).JPG

#2503 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Is anyone going to the factory tour this weekend? Wondering if there's new code running?

Am not going but will see DP at the pinball event I co-organize (CW2016) tomorrow and Sunday where they will bring a TBL and I will see Jaap and Barry the whole day. Will drop the question.

#2505 2 years ago

Sorry, no new code (yet) at CW2016. It is work in progress however. Pls Be patient is all we can say for the moment.

1 week later
#2529 2 years ago

I am 163 and my educated guess is feb 2017. Being Dutch I don't have to wait for a container to fill up. So day it's ready I will be there to pick it up

#2531 2 years ago

So you are like number 63? Than your pin is already produced or am I missing something ? So just a matter of filling up the container. I am guessing they are now approaching 90

My guess is was it is, an educated guess. Did however some homework prior to guessing it

And is there a good chance it will be later? Yep, it's pinball after all

#2533 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I've had it in my head that my game (#59) would be shipped once they had another 21-game container filled by completing #70 something. I now realize that DP is probably going to finally go with a 42-game container and shipping for me has been delayed until they finish a #90 something game.
Just my guess anyway.

When the last halfsize container shipped they did tell indeed next shipment would be a 42 game container. I dont think that that moment is very far away. So perhaps a christmas present for you? If not than my game arriving feb 2017 is not happening i guess

#2561 2 years ago

Wanna see a Vlog on the last VIPtour @ ARA and introduction of the Dutch Pinball Association Clubhouse weekend?

Its not mine so cant take the credits but see

2 weeks later
#2589 2 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

Anybody in Europe willing to sell to me ?

If you have a BBB, there is a German guy offering his TBL as a trade against BBB .......

3 weeks later
#2654 2 years ago

Saw a topic on Facebook of a TBL owner acting as Beta tester reporting he is finalizing his test on a Beta release

So hopefully it will not be long anymore !

2 weeks later
#2719 2 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

TBL #16 playing .47 beta code on twitch right now. This is after a 24 hour run last Friday at Magfest on the same machine.
https://www.twitch.tv/pinballjoe

Running smoothly . But man, making that right ramp is tricky

I need to practice more. Luckily it's now Fridaynight which is pinball night over here

#2727 2 years ago

And still streaming and going strong. See both ramps are made easily. So, this game is now running like 14 hours already continuous usage? No weak flippers to be seen

1 month later
#2922 2 years ago

NSN from DP:

We sincerely want to apologize for the radio silence. We understand that in the pinball world, not communicating causes speculation. The reason is that we have no news to share. There is an issue with our partner ARA which we are trying to resolve. As soon as we have news we will let you know but this might take a few more weeks.

If you want to meet Dutch Pinball in person, please come to the Texas Pinball Festival. Jaap will be there (probably most of the time at the Cointaker booth) and also will give a presentation on Saturday.

Again, our sincere apologies, we hope to come with news soon.
Kind regards,
Barry & Jaap

11
#3022 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

The Dutch do showmanship well. I have dealt with them in business before and I hate painting with a wide brush however I will say this....every time I have dealt with the Dutch, I have been fed many lies and exaggerations that constantly have to be sifted through. I am not saying this is the same situation as I have no knowledge of wha the truth is or what is really going on just find it very interesting that i received two emails one after the other basically covering asses.

Being Dutch and a businessman myself must admit this remark does hurt me.

So you Americans have Trump as a president and this means all Americans are like him?? Guess what you are stating here is alternative news

#3219 2 years ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

.... paying another $1000 over and above the already super high (but agreed upon) price is just not something anyone should really be comfortable with. Its bordering on extortion - .......

He, this is exactly the situation DP is in now with ARA. So if you feel uncomfortable on 1 pin imagine how you would be with 300 pins .....

24
#3320 2 years ago

So I let this first sink in for a day or two

The way I interprete the letter from DP is easy enough. They had a contract with ARA to produce TBL for a certain amount of money within a certain period.

ARA failed to produce within the agreed timeframe and likely occurred more costs as they calculated. They are now trying apparently to do a breech of contract and ask for more money. However, 1) I don't think that the markup on the pre-order pricing allows this kind of extra costs suddenly and 2) this is just not how it works. Ara should eat the extra costs themselves. After all they calculated themselves and agreed to a certain price.

Yes, the PCB lie was, allthough I understand it, a bad move. But ARA is here suddenly asking more money. DP is not in the wrong in that point. DP wanted to avoid hysteria and did a white lie on the PCB. Yes, looking back wrong wrong idea. I suspect they thought ARA would come to their senses quickly as their is a solid contract in place and everything could go back to normal quickly.

So their is now the demand for extra money and DP is not willing to do this which I accept and understand. This is not only concerning the current 40 pins but also ofcourse the already delivered 50 pins. So we are talking of at least 90x1000 eur which is serious money. Pls do note the NSN states 1000+. I hear nobody on the +sign. For me this means it's more than eur 1000 and for those who think the markup on the preorder is more than eur 1000 keep on dreaming. Plus markup is something else as profit. Expenses like rent-flights etc are paid from this markup.

Than customer paying extra. Paying ARA is not the solution. They don't own the License and can't resell it. So if you pony up your 1000+ eur DP should still pay their part for ARA to release it. So it should go via DP. It is feasible? Don't know. Can only work if everybody agrees I guess.

For European residents, on top of your 1000 you have to add also 21% VAT I guess.

For what's it worth to you: I expect that DP is able to pay the original agreed pricing. So no financial issue if everything goes according to the original plan.

Is another CM feasible? Don't know. Perhaps for number 2 but who will step up and buy no 2 if TBL is not resolved? So it must be a deal in which in some way TBL buyers are helped to.

I know Jaap and Barry as passionate pinballers who started DP as a dream for them. If it would be only for the money they would have accepted much more preorders. Remember they stopped accepting preorders at a certain date. They wanted to ship first. Would moneyscammers do this? No.

We are in for some serious money but for them there is much more at stake. I think some or many of you don't care about this but their passion for the hobby will make sure that they will do everything to make this right. They love pinball after all !! Is this passion a Garantuee for succes ? Unfortunately not but you can bet they will really really try to make this right

My thoughts are with Barry and Jaap and Koen. I know them much better as many of you, consider them as friends, and for what's it worth to you : I know they really really care and are hurt to. They do their best and are human like you and me.

And yes, I have a horse in this race.

#3345 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

.. but it seems like lawyers and communications people are in short supply in the Netherlands or something

Perhaps the world should start a crowdfunding to give mediatraining to us Dutch

#3351 2 years ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Good business is about good relationships not iron clad contracts. And still we know nothing of the situation, and nobody can say what it's about... even money.
Show me evidence.. until then..

I also find business to be based on trust. No trust, no business. Relationship ends were contract starts. So I fully agree with you

So For me trust is rule number 1. And yep, I understand why contracts have to be in place so everybody knows what is expected but relation and trust is what make my business tick. But that is not multi-million dollar deals I must admit.

And now the trust from DP to ARA is gone. And between DP and (some of) his customers. This is worrisome to say the least. Priority no 1 is to get trust back. This means communication but time is needed. If 2-3 months of discussing between DP and ARA didn't bring any results it's not likely that tomorrow it will suddenly be different.

The ideas DP has now have been told in the last NSN. So either lawyers to get Ara back in line or another CM. Which one is most feasible will need time to investigate. Communication on their plans is in place and a good start to rebuilt trust.

Stay tuned is all that can be said at this moment.

#3362 2 years ago

As stated befor, DP is the IP holder and ARA can thus NOT sell the games direct. Has to go through DP

This is my understanding at least

#3433 2 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Easy Question. Those factory vids we saw along the way. Where were those filmed?
Mof

I made them and they were shot at the Ara facilities in a city called Aalten.

Ara Website http://nl.www.ara-aalten.nl

Here also DP clearly mentioned the production facility is ARA http://www.dutchpinball.com/contact

So hope this ends the false story about DP claiming to own a factory. ARA is contracted by DP to built the TBL. Not only boards but complete product.

1 week later
#3550 2 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

They did show off the wire form making robot.

That was not with ARA.

It's only good business to not make parts yourself in low volumes which can be made cheaper somewhere else. Buying a robot for making just 300+ wire forms? Would be crazy.

The Ara factory i saw twice was impressive and had a lot of machinery which was universal in use. In this way a CM can operate efficient for a big variety of customers. Bending wire forms and spraying paint on a wooden board isn't universal and thus can be better outsourced

Hence mirco for the playfield and company X for bending wire forms.

#3596 2 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Well the TPF is coming closer.
Looked at the event schedule.
March 25th
3 pm – Dutch Pinball Update
Location: Seminar Room
Hopefully Jaap or Barry have some good news.

It's Jaap who is coming

45
#3650 2 years ago

Being local and friends with Barry I paid Barry a personal visit this week, shared a meal and had a lengthy discussion with him on this topic.

What I can share is my true feeling that DP is in the right and ARA in the wrong. Have got a lot of inside details supporting my opinion that ARA has been changing the rules during the game against contract and normal business ethics. So DP is now caught in this bad situation which is not easily solved and certainly not overnight.

What I also saw was a person who is, with Jaap, working hard to find a solution for this bad situation. This will need time however. This is also the reason for lack of news. There is just nothing new to report besides the info which has been shared already (eg. another CM, researching legal ways against ARA). You can imagine that both options need time and posting on public forums is not always the best for the case. You cant expect them to disclose all details in public. This would not be wise.

As I mentioned earlier, both Jaap & Barry are true pinball lovers who want to make this happen. Yes, we do have our hard-earned money on the line but not only they have also personal money on the line, it is also their dream who is at stake. This combo is what they are fighting for and hard. Am I 100% sure it will all end well? No, this would be not realistic. But, I am 100% confident DP is trying their best to overcome the bad situation caused by ARA and they have a good shot. The Dutch CM they are talking to is a local well-known name with a good rep, deep pockets and much bigger as ARA. If they take on this case they have the capacity to act quickly, Not only TBL design is ready ofcourse but also design pin 2 is finalized. The lawyer they have is very confident on this case but legal ways cost time and capital.

What's the above worth? For me everything and for you perhaps nothing as it are 'just' words but I wanted to share it anyway. Jaap is going to TPF so approach him there and I hope you will get the same feeling as I have.

Regards from a fellow Dutch dude

#3652 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I was bugging DP almost daily for a bit...backed off a little...bugged them again yesterday, and they said no new news to report. I heard from someone else that they will explain everything at TPF...so, I'm just gonna hang back and see what transpires there before I decide on my next course of action.

Sending daily mails will not help, will only work on your own nerves. This matter takes time and sending daily mails only reminds you again again and again on this situation. Let it loose for some time pls and trust, or hope if you prefer that word, that DP is doing their best and don't need reminders. They are not forgetting us

So don't drive yourself crazy !!

#3663 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Was checking the thread to see if they delivered any good news at TPF. Cancelling seems like bad news. Anyone know anything different?

Last week Barry confirmed me in person that Jaap is going to TPF so where the cancellation story comes from ??? No idea.

#3664 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Only 12 days, 17 hrs, and 33 minutes ...
Not that I'm anxiously awaiting this or anything.

Legal talk or new contract manufacturer don't happen overnight

This thing takes time to solve but more info would be great. Also ofcourse as soon as legal issues are envolved people are extra careful with mentioning things

#3673 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Interesting that no one from Expo said anything about a medical or injury reason for the seminar cancelation. Again the cancelation was revealed at the last minute.
Did this injury occur in the States? If not, wasn't anyone else available to represent DP?

Come on man. I fully realize and understand that DP needs to re-earn your trust but this pushing it to hard.

And yes, there were people representing DP. They are called distributor Cointaker.

IMG_1594 (resized).PNG

#3757 2 years ago

As I mentioned earlier if people think building a pin like TBL in small volume can be done with profits far bigger than usd 1000 keep on dreaming.

Ara demanding this kind of money extra is pushing the markup in the red or close by and than we have not even touched the topic of license costs, marketing, shows, salaries for Jaap, Koen and Barry.

Yep, you can state rightfully that this is DP problem not yours (Rarehero says a lot of things I disagree with, his tone is very not dude (he has the role of Walter ) but his remark that we are customers and not investors is a correct one allthough it feels different ) but you are talking here of a startup company. So their problem is also our problem. Like it or not but it's a fact in pinball life.

Like P3 said in a special K podcast, there are only few ways to fund a startup and preorder model is likely most achievable or you have to be rich yourself ...... can tell you Barry and Jaap are no millionaires or at least don't live like it

So hang on tight and reread Rubberducks earlier true words.

Got to play a captain Nemo further today, sn 3. Ordered 5 years ago and delivered some weeks ago. So it proofs it can still happen !!

#3759 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The license has expired. They'll have to renew it...I don't see that happening.

Not true. Why are you saying this? The usual badmouthing I assume?

17
#3762 2 years ago

Yep, you are very supporting now

They say you know who truely your friends are when times are bad ......

So just the idea you have that licenses go for three years made you state that the TBL license has ended? No fact checking, just shouting things to stir the masses. Pinside at his best

What in heavens name you wanna gain with contacting Universal? Just, very hypothetically, suppose your action will get the license revoked, how does this help your case??

I truely don't think the license is at stake but just the fact you wanna go to Universal to create trouble really p*sses me off. This is not a Kevin situation or do you think Roger Sharpe also f*cked up to use the word you like so much?

Flame suit on.

#3777 2 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Cool! Welcome to the Nemo's owner club (all 3 posted in this thread!).
It happened because Antonio accepted to lose some money and a lot of time. By assembling his games (at least the ones for Europe) himself in his garage he kept overheads to a minimum. The model works for very small production runs, but can't be viable for 300.

Jim, to avoid further confusion. I stated I played it, I don't own it unfortunately

So not in Nemo owners club, it is Ad Jonker's Nemo I played.

#3810 2 years ago

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#3833 2 years ago

For those who are not going to TPF (like me), I understood there will be another newsletter on Saturday parallel to the TPF seminar.

So, watch your mailbox Saturday

#3835 2 years ago

Hope not needed, it will be so
This was suppose to happen also last time but than technique fucked up

This will not stop speculation, so pls proceed.

Nobody wants to guess theme pin 2? My dreamtheme I think would be Resident Evil or Mad Max

#3855 2 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I got spammed as well with the email. I am not a customer of the game nor have I ever been interested in the game, and I got spammed with it. I have no idea how I ended up on their list.

This was not a NSN newsletter but a mailing to their general mailing list plus TBL buyers (was not only TBL news hence the general mailing). Can it be you subscribed once to their newsletter and forgot about it?

#3896 2 years ago

You really want beetlejuice

#3906 2 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

They are going to be a Texas? Seminar?? Speech??? Unveil of #2???
» YouTube video
Hope someone records this!

Yes-yes-yes-yes-I hope so to

#3919 2 years ago

No worry Rubberducks. I agree that 25 pcs make no financial sense and is incorrect for sure

#3921 2 years ago

I don't know pricing so not disputing that part as I just don't know.

Honestly speaking I do expect low volume (but >>25) so USD 12500 doesn't sound that strange because of low(er) numbers

#3939 2 years ago

Parallel to the seminar there should be a newsletter I was told.

Don't get your hopes to high on TBL is my personal feeling. If it is in legal hands these things take (a ton of) time and during legal actions it is common lawyer advise to keep your mouth shut in NL (the enemy is listening to after all)

But we will see, I really really hope I am in the wrong here.

#3951 2 years ago

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#3967 2 years ago

VDL group is a very big company wth a total turnover over the whole group over a billion dollars. They do built also the Mini's from BMW.

If they wanna do this they have the resources to make it happen.

#3979 2 years ago
Quoted from homebrood:

Or this could all be a scam setting buyers up to pay the extra $$$ all the while making them feel lucky to do so!

Really?? Man, the phantasy of some people, unbelievable.

#3985 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

Did you follow Magic Girl-gate? Of dichter bij huis, MMR-gate?

Yeah, I would make myself an outcast in the pinball community, destroying a lot goodwill (needed for startups more than else), upsetting everybody, stopping production and thus not getting the money from the TBLs ordered by CT and Nitro, etc to make a usd 1000 extra. Yeah, you are right, I see it now

Come on Maurice, you know Barry and Jaap. If you really think they are capable of doing such a scam I suggest you sell your BoP2.0. I would at least not wanna be associated with people doing something like this.

#4007 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Rensh,
Can you investigate my question, please? Does DP have enough funds to pay for all preordered games? Other than $1k@ in dispute, do they have the money or was it spent getting them to this point? Other questions are important but I hope you can see to asking about and reporting back. You can size people up pretty good, so feel you are the best one to ask.

Tough question.

Let's state this: in all my talks with mainly Barry and some Jaap I never had the feeling that they were not capable of paying the original agreed pricing.

I know next question would be if the buyers would pay the extra money would it free the TBL? Again tough question: Ara has proven to be a partner not to be trusted. So suppose they take the extra money for the already built TBLs and thus cash in on 90 machines and than start stalling again or again put in extra conditions? Now there is some pressure against ARA as they have a lot of cash invested in the 90 machines and for sure would like to see a ROI. Their shareholders can't be happy with the way their director is handling this case allthough I know they have stand by him till now. I would see this only working if everybody would agree, signed renewed contract by ARA with penalty clause of not produced within an agreed acceptable timeframe and the holding company above it, and all the extra money is given to an independent person who will only pay out to Ara AFTER delivery of ALL 300 machines. If project still fails this independent person gives money back to the buyers. Perhaps even wiser that on top a certain percentage of the original sum is also with this person. This would motivate ARA even more to really quickly produce TBL and in case it still fails there is more money to divide over the customers who didn't get a machine.

Next question could also be that DP has to cough up the extra money as after all it's their responsibility. This would be 300K+ and considering DP is a 2person company plus 1 programmer I think that's a step to far. Yes, Barry and Jaap had money at the start for sure but proto's, engineering samples, living over a year longer as the original agreed timeframe without an income, this is costly and must have eaten into this sum. I think this also because DP combined the agreement to paying extra with the condition of producing 50 BoP25. I think the profit of the 50 BoP were supposed to cover the loss on TBL.

But, for the record, I am NOT their bookkeeper and NEVER had a look at their books and saving accounts either. This is purely MY personal human feeling and (I think ) logical thinking.

Hope this helps.

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#4259 2 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I noticed that Rensh has not posted in a couple of days.
Wonder where Rensh has gone.
He usually has lots of info to share. He lives in the Netherlands and has had sit down talks with Barry and Jaap.
Wonder if Rensh has some more insight?

I am still here and following the topic(s). I have learned (the hard way) that when emotions are involved it is better to give it a few days rest and some good night sleep. Find Rarehero's f*ck here f*ck here very annoying and proof that it is better to calm down first.

What can I say what already not has been said?

Let's work with my common business sense.

I am not their bookkeeper so don't have a real insight on their financial issues just my own common sense of doing business every day. Big question for us all does DP still have money on the bank and if yes, how much?

For sure not enough to refund everybody (money is spent on parts, PR, prototype, living etc; the PR, prototypes and living was supposed to come from the TBLprofit I assume but when refunding there is no profit) so asking a 100% refund for everybody is a no go and sure way to bankruptcy. It's a three person company of which 2 are owners and 1 is programmer. Do you really think they can cough it up? Best case if you wanna go the refund route would be that they split the money what is left over the 150 achievers which didnt get a pin which will be which amount per achiever? Also dont know if thats even possible legally as what happens if ARA says suddenly they accept the original agreed price for the 90 pcs built but than the money is already divided and sent back to the achievers?

Their business-plan must have been based on ARA keeping the contract-promise and make and deliver TBL in 2015. So its like a business transaction salespeople do every day, you purchase something and sell it with a markup big enough to live from and continue your business. In ARA they thought to have found a reliable partner. Heck, when people asked me if I was not afraid doing a pre-order at a startup company like DP of just a few people I always minimized the risk pointing at the big ARA behind DP and now it is ARA is killing them

So now TBL is not generating the required profit, its even dead in the water dependable on legal action yes-no/other CM, they are switching to a backup plan like BOP3. Its either generating new income or eat in further on TBL money. Is this a good plan? Time will tell but for sure its sensitive with us achievers. For me a BOP3 is not appealing but thats just me. I also had never interest in the original BOP. I know that some people have put down a BOP3 deposit at TPF.

Also, if ARA was so sure about their financial rights, why haven't they opened a financial claim against DP? I think the oldest invoice must be sure like >6 months old. In my company invoices older than 3 months I sent to an insurance company which will chase the customer to get the money through a bailiff and force into bankruptcy if we cant work out a payment agreement. However, I have to give them the complete file showing my invoices are correct and corresponding with the contract/order..... They are not spending their time on a case where the customer can easily show the invoices dont correspond with the order. With that in the back of my mind I find it very interesting to see that ARA has not filed a financial claim against DP through a bailiff (at least not that I know of)....

I think that a plan with a mediator is perhaps the best option for now. Can be quicker and cheaper as lawyers. I dont know the business experience of Jonathan and it has to be an experienced, and most of all independent, person as perhaps Jonathan Joosten offers (although I know as boardmember of the Dutch Pinball Association Jonathan can ask and keep asking critical questions so thats a good point for him ) . Independent as coming from outside the pinball-world to avoid claims of subjectivity from ARA (Jonathan is also an achiever to my knowledge). But if all parties agree to Jonathan I wish him all the success in the world and thank him for his time&effort.

I do know however mediation has been tried already (DP told already that several negotiations took place in the newsletter, mediation was 1 of them) but the 3rd person was somebody from the holding above ARA. Objectivity was just not there as this mediator turned out just to follow ARA. So I dont call that a real mediation effort.Explains also my above sentence about having somebody really independent to ALL parties. Dont think that DP didnt try in all this time to work it out with ARA. So a lot of ideas are like, been there, done that.

I also cant get my mind around ARA. What is their goal? If DP ends in bankruptcy they end with like 40-50 already delivered TBLs unpaid plus 40 hostage-pins unpaid. Also its common CM practice that the CM orders the parts, assembles, delivers and than gets paid. I know that the PROCS's have been paid by DP (info from newsletter) but a lot of the parts have been pre-paid by ARA for sure. Now they make a lot of stuff internally so no need to produce 300 pcs but looking at for instance the playfields. They have all 300 been ordered for sure, you dont make playfields per pc as its expensive to setup a robot for making the playfields. So a lot of money is at stake for ARA to. I am guessing >500-600 KUSD easily. So, whats their strategy? Very puzzling. I am afraid it has become something personal for somebody at ARA (made perhaps a big f*ck up in calculation and now wants to point finger at DP trying to safe his job perhaps?) and emotions are bad if you wanna make the right business-decisions.

Look, I understand the anger and feel also something of it myself to. Writing all the above down is like a calming exercise for me. More info is required but if lawyers are (going to be?) involved its common business practice to keep still. So even if DP is willing to share more info they might not be allowed to.

Yes, I do have more inside info as most of you but at the end it all corresponds with the info already given by DP, just more details. Have not seen the contract, not talked with ARA and am not DP bookkeeper. I can only rely on the info told by Jaap & Barry to me (and I also was told the PCB-story). Above post is thus just my PERSONAL thinking.

Regards from a fellow Dutch (so NOT Danish) dude wishing everybody (including DP) the best.

We are the country which is second after Amerika ( see

starting at 40 seconds )
Denmark was 3rd I think

#4347 2 years ago

Another point to think about. When DP came to ARA with a million+ dollar undertaking and being a startup, do you really think that ARA would just say come on in, we will worry about the money later. For sure they did their research and DP had to play it very open with open books to get it even started-going. 
 
So ARA would only start this whole project knowing they could get paid at the end. However, than you don't held up to your end of the bargain, eg deliver the pins in 2015, but delay and delay and put other customers upfront. This makes DP look bad in our eyes but it also causes to see TBL funds slowly decrease. Still ARA doesn't act so they think they still can be paid. Than june 2016 they recalculate the figures (for a 3rd time: made price in april 2015 and again in may 2015, guessing that the production of the engineering samples in 2015 learned them this) and find out they need more money to make a profit. 
 
They are not looking for ways to decrease costs (speed up building, buying parts in larger quantities to reduce costs, etc), take their responsibility (it's their miscalculation after all) but turn (again) to DP. DP accepts IF they get the TBLs in 2016 out of the door plus additional 50 pcs BoP3. 
 
These Bops are paid by CT and Nitro for sure (no pre ordering after all) and generate profit in order to overcome the price increase from ARA. So DP was reasonable sure to get an income from CT and Nitro. 
 
Than it takes Ara some time to get the invoice out of the shipment of 21 pcs TBL end july, it has a payment term and during the payment term it turns out in october that 1) production TBL is not stepped up and 2) parts for Bop3 have not been ordered (so the needed money to pay for the price-increase will not come). So ARA f*cks with DP again and leaving them hanging. DP than refuses to pay the higher invoice and here we are. Looking at the history of proven unreliability from ARA I can't really blame them. I am even getting the feeling that if they were paid for the 70-90? pcs (dependable if april batch TBL of approx 21 pcs is paid yes-no) ARA would just stop production and leaving 210 buyers without anything. 
 
Even if DP is now short of even the Original agreed amount this is also due to the fact that TBL is overdue like over a year and 3 persons living for a year costs money. This is a year where the delay causes DP to not get fresh money in the door. Who is to blame here? ARA. People will now state DP has done design changes causes the delay and I dare them : point to me where these DESIGNchanges are? Have the ramps moved from left to right? Has the upper playfield become a bottom playfield? Yes, there have been manufactureing changes made by ARA because there original ideas for how to make a reliable rugtoy for instance were proven to be not errorfree. This is a MANUFACTURERchange responsibility ARA, not DP

And yes, we have bought our TBL with DP, not ARA. So we totally shouldnt care if DP or ARA is to blame because from a customer view its always DP. But this is not how it works unfortunately. If a small company has this kind of problems it also becomes the problem of the customer

The above is ofcourse based on stories-newsletters from DP, not on written proof or talks with ARA. So it may be worth nothing or everything.

#4349 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinbally_1968:

then rather listen to the above, another one..hope it helps

Hmm . Captain wisdom, sounds great

#4386 2 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

I was just informed that ARA fired their Managing Director, who I was actually supposed to talk to next week. This could actually be a good thing for TBL as things now may move forward. It could also indicate the problem was at ARA and not at DP. Will post more news when I have any.

You beat me to it

The above is correct. The manager called Rene was fired on the spot and this was yesterday publically announced in the canteen in front of all the employees by 2 commissioners from ARA holding

Firing on the spot is very unusual in NL and only done in cases like theft, sexual misabuse or gross mismanagement. I suspect the latter is the case.

This opens possibilities for sure and deserves a White Russian to celebrate this. Let's all take a stand now in wait what kind of news this brings next week or the week after

#4397 2 years ago

I think we should all go and play a rollercoaster Tycoon. This as a practice for the last week and coming weeks

Definitely this feels like a roller coaster. Jumping every direction and changing it by the second.

#4403 2 years ago

I agree, we are not there yet but it's a big step in the right direction on a road which will have for sure some bumps in it.

However, if the new person in charge and DP are on speaking terms and both are willing to work it out (Can confirm DP is) there is a good chance it can succeed.

If the in the newsletter mentioned 50 Bops are really required to make it work I think it's a lot easier to sell 50 extra TBL as 50 Bop3's (sorry Barry, I know you made the artwork on Bop3 )

#4446 2 years ago
Quoted from whitey:

Rather than me weed through all this Bullshit ?
What are my chances of getting a game after I have given a deposit? It's a gorgeous game, played it , gotta have it

Two ways to go: take over the spot from WCBrandes and become an early achiever and sit it out like the rest of us. I am optimistic you will see your game but will be a roller coaster ride with ups and downs. And yep: chance is there it will fail. Have to be realistic. You can taker a backseat for 1-2 weeks to see how things go but than likely WCbrandes spot is taken.

Or go to CT or Nitro and mention your interest in TBL and have yourself put on waiting list. No risk but if the 300 are not expanded you will have no game. Betting however that DP will try to expand the number if negotiations with Ara go well. Plenty of interest after all so makes business sense to do so

May you choose wisely

#4447 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

As opposed to numerous others' posts, I really suspect that he didn't intend his to come across the way it did.

I know this person well and can garantuee that he not intend this for sure but got carried away on his upsetness with all the negative emotions on the thread

He is a good dude, believe me

#4488 2 years ago

It isn't fake news but alternative news

I know somebody who is supposed to pick up his Alien at the factory this Friday. I will ask him afterwards his experience. Really very curious to see the Alien. Alien is a killer theme for me. Bought a TBL because it was Dutch pinball, not because of theme allthough I knew the movie. With Alien however ..... . Problem is space, can only have 3 pins. Have now MET and AC/DC which ain't going anywhere and NF which will be replaced with TBL. No space for an Alien

16
#4489 2 years ago

Can further confirm that the meeting ARA-DP is scheduled for this week.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for good news to start off the weekend with a few White Russians. Allthough I can imagine that ironing all things out take more time as just 1 meeting

So stay calm and realistic fellow dudes

#4504 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

I am offering to keep it for you in my living room - for free!

In times of need you really see who your true friends are. You just shown you are one !