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NICE!!!
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Dutch Pinball, 2016
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2 months later
1 month later
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2 weeks later
Funny.. I emailed Barry yesterday asking about news on TBL production. DP are working on an NSNL showing production or some stuff that is being assembled whilst waiting for other parts to arrive.
Barry said maybe this week, most likely next
3 weeks later
3 months later
3 months later
1 month later
Can I come round and play it when you do!?
When Gary Flower asked Jaap on my behalf when mine (105) would be ready he said late June/ early July. But not holding much hope of that now 
Would really like GBLE, THBLE, & TBL to turn up together. That will be an one serious unboxing party! 
1 month later
2 months later
2 months later
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Any news!?
I'm number 105, emailed Barry and asked about numbers, he said 4 weeks ago that they were making the .
Emailed a few times and DP are still having issues with boards.
I really wanted a Xmas delivery but not sure this is going to happen
1 month later
1 month later
As above,
Not all 300 have been made, so, find out how much ARA is owed for the ones made, and then find another manufacturer for the rest.
Has ARA made 100 and then said you owe us 100K more due to unforeseen circumstances? Or have they said a price increase for the rest of the machines to which DP has said no and honour the contract!?
DP has admitted to me that board issue was to "buy time" which is not good.
I'm sure Jaap & Barry are up to their eyes in emails now requesting refunds.
We need complete transparency on this so we the buyers can decide.
I would pay more to have my game, £700 more is better than loosing £6000!
I put this to Jaap
There are apparently 40 games packed ready that are by all accounts being "held ransom".
DP are refusing to pay ARA and have stopped paying them to have money ready for legal actions.
I'm sorry, but I did not intend for my money to pay for legal action.
I have asked why not: settle the account for the assembled games, or the 300 and then take this to court as what appears to be blackmail. They have the contract that should hopefully win in court. Then move to a different manufacturer for game 2! Makes FAR more financial sense.
I would rather pay the extra, get my game and then get reimbursed when/if DP win court case.. at least I will have a game rather than nothing at all!!
ARA owns the rights to the circuit boards used in TBL, so the new manufacturer will have to redesign the boards as well
Hopefully they will have hindsight to develops boards backwards compatibility for games already produced..
DP stopped paying ARA after they asked for more, I don't know how it works in Holland, but if you owe money and don't pay the bills then the creditors can sell what they have in possession to cover costs.
Do DP pay bill per machine made or per 10!? Who knows.
I said to Jaap settle invoice for machines made and then find another manufacturer.
We the buyers with money paid in full should decide what our money goes towards! Pinball or legal battle!
There are only 300 voices to listen to, less with the deposit only people.
If only 300 are made, then TBL will be quite rare. Those with deposits have the choice pay more or get deposit back.
Raise price by €1000 then whoever wants one will pay... people are already paying 15K for a stern with dimpling/ghosting playfield and shit code...
Quoted from flynnibus:That would be unusual - and highly stupid by DP. Remember, ARA was working FOR DP for engineering and manufacturing. They were contracted for the work - not making their own boardset and then selling to DP (I doubt ARA was looking to get into the PROC space )
ARA would have been selling their services to DP.. just like you'd hire a contractor to draw a logo for you. The terms of the contract would dictate that DP owns the output, the designs, etc as the work is being done to their spec and acceptance. It would not be unusual to negotiate some licensing arrangement or timed exclusivity terms if trading some liability for guaranteed business.
The standard is the buyer owns the design, but the contractor is usually going to work to ensure they don't do all the work then just get abandoned. Remember, the money paid (and margin) on assembly is not that much... the money is in the services.
Its entirely possible ARA bent DP over here and technically owns everything... but it would be the extreme 'DP was stupid' case.. and that's not been their M.O. Too bold.. Too optimistic... too quiet? Sure.. blatantly stupid? Nah..
Where it can get even more messy is even if DP has the rights to it, if they aren't in physical possession of everything, ARA could withhold it arguing non-payment or other stall tactics.
Jaap told me himself that ARA own the rights to the boards this morning
1 month later
I am far from impressed!
We, the early achievers who's money helped start DP, and now we are told that they are moving CM, but not putting TBL first! Instead moving to a second game..
I know ARA is apparently holding parts to ransom and so to remake all parts would be costly.. but to just let us sit here with no option to get our games... poor business decision
I am pisssed!
BUT.. calling Universal and starting legal proceedings whilst DP are challenging ARA will only lead to bankruptcy.... leaving all of the people half paid and paid in full out of pocket
If ARA hold what Jaap is saying then no DP cannot afford to reproduce the parts/playfields etc.. to make the games.
Then they would have excess stuff if/when they win the court case. With only 300 agreed if everyone complains to universal then of course they will not agree to extend/renew the licence
Quoted from Rensh:Can further confirm that the meeting ARA-DP is scheduled for this week
Good news!
Thanks for the update
2 weeks later
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1 week later
Maybe DP wants to sort out a contract - water tight. Then can go to the 140 customers with Deposit only and then start up the production again.
Think it is the 2nd machines sales that will help DP make a small profit and pay ARA.
Starting a business usually means no profit for the first few years
1 month later
4 months later
I find this reveal totally disgusting!
EA paid years ago, have been waiting patiently, well at least I have! Now to be told new customers get the game first!
No! Take 1K deposits for games and use that to build the EA games and so on! The new customers should wait a while, not like the 4 f@@kin years we have been waiting!
Being built in China will really reduce labour cost I reckon.
I think that taking deposits/whole payment for new games will help make the EA games. Maybe 1 full price new order will pay for EA and new order ($5000 build cost) probably less if being made in China!
3 weeks later
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Quoted from GGBGROUP:I wish they would sell the whole operation to someone that knows how to manage a business, like JJP. Would love this machine but never from DP.
How quick people forget...
How late WOZ was, how late TH was.
JJP were in trouble and, if not for the investor gone belly up
JJP was taking money for hobbit, to build outstanding WOZ games, then, when that didn’t work blamed substandard parts for the delay in Hobbit.
JJP also took new money and gave machines to them first whilst the start up guys waited for their games.
This will be what DP will most likely do.
I was told by DP at the EAG that 1 sample game was on its way to CoinTaker for their approval on its build quality and if that was good then orders would be placed and production would start
Has CT been in touch with pre-order customers or made public their opinion of the game?
Yep, a bail out, at least DP had said don’t take anymore pre-order money after things started to go wrong.. and despite all the shit they are still trying to get machines made.
They have got permission to make more than 300 and have approached pinball distributors in Europe, UK etc to build up more interest to get the games going..
2 months later
I emailed Barry asking for an update, he replied saying it’s taking a bit longer to get the production going.
I then asked a few Qs about the feedback cointaker have on the Chinese prototypes, how many more TBL have been ordered, have all parts been ordered to begin producing....
he replied again saying now news to announce just yet
1 week later
Has CoinTaker given any response.. last real news was that CT had 2 Chinese games and were going to give their approval of the build standards.
What happened there?
CoinTaker commented?
DP were at the EAG in Jan with a TBL and Pinball Heaven is the UK distributor.
1 week later
Do we the “Investers” not have a say... A representative of the EA’s should be in the room of court/ ARA DP discussions.
All depends if EAs would pay another 1K per machine or loose 8K completely!
I put this to DP when this first happened...and they refused. Now we have lost it all!
Another thing.. the legal counsel DP have.. are they any good? Do they cost money, or are they a no win no fee kinda thing.. what I’m saying is would a company take on this case unless there was a strong chance of winning it!
4 weeks later
The way the email is worded... Waiting for legal suit to get you & us compensation... this implies that it is a certainty they will win.. if not done already!
I would give another €1500-€2000 if it guaranteed me a machine as I would rather this than loose the whole amount.
DP needs to be upfront - rather than asking for this blind!
As for the Specials page.. can be viewed as 2 things - raise money for defense, or get rid of stock that they have possession of..
€1495 for a playfield is a lot to fork out of a game that may not be built
Good Afternoon Barry
I am emailing you about the NSNL that has been released today.
Barry I need a few clarifications..
In the NSNL you say about law suit to compensation for DP & the EA’s. The way this is worded sounds like it is certain of a verdict in DP’s favour or a VERY VERY Strong case. This did not seem like it on the first communication about the law suit. Has New Shit come to light!?
The Go Fundme. I would like to know the estimated legal costs of this lawsuit AND the amount needed to start up production of TBL with Xytech. How much is the cost of the game to make?
I know people are willing to support DP but without any information I fear these people will be throwing
€1000s away!
Maybe a EA would stump up another 2- 3K to guarantee they get a game. Again you are asking people or basically encouraging people to do this to help DP. Is this what it has come to? AGAIN HONEST OPEN Information on the state of DP. The ugly truth.
The Specials Page - A temporary shop- is this due to amounts of playfields/spares that were made before production started and lawsuit. Is this an attempt to get money for defence or sell of parts so no inventory. Sounds like it’s Temp because you don't have a lot of stuff as it’s only what DP possesses from Xytech preparation?
Barry you owe it to your start up customers to explain fully what is happening. This is most UNDUDE like.
Maybe being open and honest you will have more EAs come to DPs Aid.
Enough is enough..
Dave Bishop
Quoted from highdef:And here is their response:
Dear David,
Dude...there is an unspoken message here. You're over the line and your aggression will not stand. Obviously, you're not a golfer.
We can't be worried about that sh*t; life goes on man.
Don't worry Dude. We will get you your TBL and tie the room together as soon as we can. In the meantime, just sit back, take a deep breath, and say "f*ck it -- let's go bowling" while we work it out with ARA.
And a good new year to you sir!
Your favorite Dude,
Jaap
Before it blows up- yes highdef has posted a fake reply- 
will report back IF & when I get a reply
1 week later
2 weeks later
I make no secret, I put in €100 to the GoFundMe.
I have bought a playfield set for a game I don’t even have and may never get, in a show of support.
It may be misplaced.. but I don’t think so.
Barry & Jaap could have taken more money in pre-orders, what another £200K! Instead they said hold as it was going south.
DP then refused refunds to have € for lawsuit. This was a dumb thing to do. A run on the bank would have certainly happened and DP would have gone under. Lawsuit did not come and another manufacturer was found near 1yr later.
After finding a Manufacturer and making 2 new prototypes, sending out to CoinTaker for approval and gearing up for production, informing us that about to order/have ordered parts ARA raise a lawsuit. It’s too convenient.
Barry and Jaap could have given up. Gone bankrupt but they have.. in a really painfull way kept going!
It wasn’t a JPOP- take $$$ on multiple games that would be released. It’s not a PONZI JJP - Woz, the deposit on Hobbit to pay for Woz, then parts trouble on hobbit to delay release by 4yrs!! ONLY that investor saved JJP. but that is forgotten because they got games out!
Sure DP should be more transparent and that is what I am asking for. I’m EA#125 and want to know more on this lawsuit. And where the €500k they are asking for is going.. Sure some for the lawyers and most, I hope is to start up production
Added over 6 years ago:Ooops! I’m EA 105 not 125
I think the prizes is donation tier
Every €10 donation- details go in and raffle is drawn.
Every $20 donation a translite
Over $20 is raffle for the TBL pinball- if they make target- which I don’t think they will.. not €500K.
DP did not set up the GoFundMe. Seattle 7 did in a bid to try and help DP get games out. Not just theirs but everybody’s.
They are trying.. its actually doing something. All these Keyboard warriors- both IN and OUT of the game.. what is it actually achieving. NOTHING.. need to more of a collective.
Either come together to help DP get the games out, if it is successful then the extra money put in will be repaid some how I’m sure.
OR bitch and moan, type on the keyboard..
How many people bailed at Phil gate? Then when that was sorted out how many demanded back in at the same EA number!? Which DP did.. can’t help but think if people bailled and then DP win the case, people would expect back in at same price, same spot.
It was a risk from the beginning, so many have tried to make it in pinball and failed. DP are trying.
If you want to help them fail don’t come crying into your keyboards the HIGH prices of STERN games, the SHIT build quality etc...
Quoted from Roostking:You are obviously more than just a buyer. You are completly disregarding the facts as we know them and defend DP so much that you seem to be a paid employee. Is the DP team on vacation with you?
What are the FACTS exactly!
What we know:
1.) DP lied about the board faults to buy them some time. Then we found out it was due to supposed contract breach.
2.) ARA let Renee the General manager go with immediate effect.
3.) DP met with ARA about restarting pinball production. Couldn’t find a soloution
4.) DP hold everyone’s money for Defense of proposed lawsuit.
5.) after a year of waiting no lawsuit and DP find another manufacturer, build prototypes and send to CoinTaker for approval.
6.) DP start to move ahead with production with Xytech and ARA raise lawsuit..
Have I missed anything?
Everything else is people making speculations. Imaginations running wild.
Quoted from colonel_caverne:I had understood games were fully paid. So:
What is finally the cost price of this game?
What is usually the benefit per game that 1k charge more prevents to come into production or solve issue with ARA?
How DP made his balance business sheet?
Does DP know their multiplication tables?
Obviously, DP missed something.
A lot of the initial start up money was used to develop the game, tweak machinery like bowling ally and ARA circuit boards I think.
The issue was that ARA increased the price once, DP agreed to the increase, with a price for the 300 machines and an agreement to build the 50 BOP 3.0 machines.
Then ARA increased the price again, I think this is what DP said.
Opened this baby up!
It’s beautiful!
All inserts good, colours are great and the register is spot on.. And the shine of the clear coat. Looks pretty thick and smooooth!
Loads of inserts, didn’t realise there were so many...
0B84D969-638E-4464-AAD7-72D40210E563 (resized).jpeg22C2404F-BCEC-48AC-85CA-06D5AF79ACED (resized).jpeg321436DC-9E0D-4205-B6FF-8448DCD82FBB (resized).jpeg39C54F77-687D-49F4-BA7F-4E0E3E83C18B (resized).jpeg44E818E6-655A-44FD-AB05-CB4CB4443560 (resized).jpeg49CA97E4-A788-470D-A9A8-BCC2B26A1975 (resized).jpeg640AA701-9A78-4704-9B73-6BE601DD8C04 (resized).jpeg6F60DCB3-C527-4973-B720-6CF9434A19A0 (resized).jpeg9F54D4DE-524A-444B-B086-69E43FCD7333 (resized).jpegC3357BAC-7403-4D1E-B5F9-5D41E46F414C (resized).jpegD767A28A-138E-4B18-A6A4-77BF84050FE6 (resized).jpegDEB40779-5E5F-4789-AB0E-2A7B081B7659 (resized).jpegF082D509-20B4-4EAA-966B-8D420A86C44F (resized).jpegFF83C3FE-2552-44C2-AC54-9B08831EAB72 (resized).jpegMore speculation.
I know it’s hard when there is no communication from Dutch Pinball, imagination run wild, opinions and what we think we know becomes how it happened.
We don’t know what has happened. Only DP and ARA.
One thing we do know for sure is DP aren’t in a position to give refunds.. or they would have.
ARA & DP are in a pending lawsuit against each other. Both think they have a case or there wouldn’t be one.
The Seattle Seven- a group of people who want to see the game built and are trying to help Dutch Pinball have set up a GoFundMe page, but that has been met with negativity and comments of a scam.. why is something that is trying to help met with so much slagging off and negativity.
So tell me What do you guys want!
REFUNDS aren’t going to happen- So don’t bother with that.
BETTER COMMUNICATION-Won’t happen with lawsuit pending if you ask something that can be used against DP by ARA.
I’m asking all the EAs that don’t have their game what could they do/would they do to help this game get built..
So if the raffle/donation structure was laid out better..?
The S7 have obtained items from DP for the raffle. The S7 are Pinsiders that are EA and want the game to succeed.
Rubberducks.. are you an EA? What about you Jeff?
Thanks.
The game raffled was 1 of the TBL Prototypes from ARA I believe. I would imagine as the production manufacturer has changed, with different boards and 2 new prototypes with Xytech, that these are no longer needed and are being used to raise capital.
I know EAs want to be updated. This is DP biggest opportunity.
How do you think ARA found out about the new manufacturer, and that DP was going to start production. Then Lawsuit happens... it’s most likely from this forum.
If DP was to update EAs, do you think that ARA would not find out about it and use it to their advantage in the court case?
My next question is how many EAs are willing to put more $ into this.. those without games... and those with games or had games, would you put more in.
I know the first 50 EAs wouldn’t have to, and so would look at it as a collective as the first 50 wouldn’t have made it out without all of us putting $$ in. And the few that have sold for $20K+
This is a question for EAs, don’t really want anybody’s else’s opinion who is not IN or FULLY PAID on this game, although sure I’m going to get it!
I’m the guy who’s only name is on the GoFundMe.. others are not, maybe because they are part of S7, or DP or quite simply because they don’t want others to know through the email or txts ridiculing them from people WITH NO INVESTMENT in the game..
TWIP got an email saying to contact Universal about the issues.. this is people trying to get the license revoked, most likely so ARA win and then they can buy the game from them.
With quote from BallyPinball of ARA has already been offered $400K + for the games. This has proved that people have been contacting them with offers. Maybe that’s why they are trying to bankrupt DP.
Dutch law is slow.. from what I hear each side has at least 6 weeks to respond to the other. Imagine 12 weeks to get a reply to the question asked!
Quoted from foxtj24:We do not know when the lawsuit was started. If could have been over a year ago. DP is not giving us the information. Considering their lies in the past. It would be hard to believe them anyway.
If it was a year ago, I don’t think DP would have spent money trying to find a new manufacturer, building prototypes and then saying we’re gearing up
Quoted from foxtj24:Are they trying to bankrupt DP, Or just get paid for the parts they bought, produced, and the games they have made and not been paid for?
This I don’t know.. but if ARA weren’t paid for the games they made it parts bought I would think that they would have taken DP to court a long time ago as DP had money then.. and so ARA could have got € and it would have been an easy case I would think. But why a yr later? Now probably less money due to Xytech proto investment etc..
I would ask that all EAs- with numbers PM me with response to putting new € into this. Just to gage support and amount that could be raised.
Then go looking to speak with DP about proposal of cash injection and how it would be utilised, getting production going and getting the games.
Quoted from foxtj24:Anther 50%. Hell no.
Shoot me a PM
Think the GoFundMe was closed because of all the negativity..
OK.. so I have contacted Robin regarding a closed forum for EA only. No one else.
He was already working on this 
so over the next few days. All the EA interested in sorting the shit out let’s get together in this forum to discuss what we can do.
The way it works is that the OP adds who they want in the forum. Please could EAs send me their name and proof of being an EA.. maybe your True Serial Email..
6292C077-895E-4B05-9220-91A369C5EE58 (resized).pngOdin
Robin was ALREADY working on this.. it is near completion and he was thinking the same as me that it would benefit situations like this.
There was also a small charge.. donate and become a Pinside+ member.. no sweat I won’t be setting up a GFM to get it back..
Quoted from PinBackpacker:It's not only the EAs that have a vested interest in how this turns out. There are many in the community that are interested in purchasing TBL or want the latest news on DP and the manufacturing situation. Why not keep the information available for all interested parties?
As it stands right now, it is the EAs that have put money into DP.
Sure people have an interest in it, some good, and bad, some constructive and some far from constructive.
No one wants DP to go down, for TBL not to be made. It is, in my opinion a cracking game that could be one of the best.. with that being said it is not right with how DP are going about certain things.
This forum is for the people who have a right to know what’s going on, as ultimately the people who funded DP.
If you want in then please feel free to pony up $10K with as yet no concrete answer to if you will get a game.. want to do that.. I don’t think so.
Only know that if TBL is produced then not only will the EA games be built but enough to satisfy demand.. that is the goal.
Quoted from Yelobird:Don’t think you have to worry about anyone stealing your place in line as the line is now gone and the parks closed.
I feel for you guys.. what will you spend your time doing after this thread is gone.
Quoted from Ballypinball:I think you will find the $500euro is what is needed to payout ARA for what is owed and games in their possession.
Then plan is sell them for $20k each which would get $600k us back, then proceed with new production in china.
Only problem is them raising $500k euro? Any billionaires out there?
Here we go speculating again.. 
EA’s check your emails..
The members only forum Robin is creatingis almost complete. I would ask that EAs post in the forum when I set it up, as if the NSNL is posted here then it will only get trolled, and more speculation/accusations of lying etc..
Quoted from jpk1972:I totally agree. Just got my NSNL and if it goes public we will only hear more of the conjecture!
Give it couple of days. I have some more stuff to share but not on this thread
Quoted from Nikonokin:#52 here btw...
Things are coming together in the EAs that want to be in the thread.
Quoted from foxtj24:I do not understand why anyone is not willing to share the info. So here it is.
It upto you.. you must really value the input and opinions of the others on this thread.
Quoted from Yelobird:The broken silence and letter looks like a fear seeing groups uniting to end this long playing shell game. Basically back off and trust us again and please don't take legal action or contact anyone. Anyone surprised that they decided to start communicating when EA's decided to take strategy conversation off line.....
Seeing your name reminds me.
I will take a set of the bowling ball pinball mod you have on your site
Quoted from Yelobird:Thanks! I have never hidden the fact that TBL is without Question my dream theme and holly grail no doubt which is why we even made a mod for it. It is disheartening to see this title possibly forever lost to poor business decisions. This title (to me) is the best cult classic to ever come out. (or almost come out)
I’m serious! I will take a set!
Quoted from Jvspin:Agreed. If their goal was some elaborate con, there has to be a much easier way. I think the expense and difficulty of going from prototype to production was much greater than they expected (stating the obvious, i know).
Now they're stuck in the weeds. Hope they can find a way out.
Development with ARA - boards, sub assemblies and setting up the production line probably cost most of the initial capital.
Then it goes wrong, then they go do it again with Xytech .. it’s no wonder they are short of cash now.
Quoted from Yelobird:Anytime several sets and colors in stock. Visit www.TheModCouplePinball.com and I can have them out next day.
Says out of stock?
Quoted from Yelobird:I just checked and the website says 9 sets in stock. Just PM me what colors you prefer!
Paid! Can I have a set 1 blue & 1 Red.
Thanks
Quoted from ToucanF16:Regarding the holiday... I emailed DP six days ago about a TBL PF and plastics set. Jaap responded in 12 hours asking about an address to calculate shipping. I answered in just over an hour. I haven't heard back. Guess their holiday started as soon as he sent his first email. Wonder if I'll ever get the playfield?
Probably having more made, like the plastics.
Quoted from el_duderino:Hmm, I'm an EA and I can't see this sub forum. Why didn't you add the EA's from the confirmed list that are posted in these very forums?
Some EAs have received refunds, some have sold their spot etc.. so I like to make sure.
I have had several NON EA contact me trying to get in to the forum.
1 week later
Quoted from Yelobird:Not sure how this makes sense? Why are future customers more important the Existing customers? So if they get hammered in court for poorly running there company they wont complete what they started? Why should lucky buyers that paid good money for a product have to see what the future holds for them to complete their product as promoted? Seems like they have had Years to at least finish what little they can to make a few people/supporters happy no?
Don’t see how you can bash DP for this.. I’m still waiting on my GBLE Update from STERN! TBL is already more complete than a Stern game on release.
Quoted from RTR:Hey gang - I don't post on this thread very often now that we have the sweet, VIP, secret handshake thread with the hot tub and free drinks.
However, if you are an EA, we would really like for you to consider joining the private thread. We are discussing things of importance over there and would love to have your input.
PM pinhead1982 for admittance.
What he said!
Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
Reno, NV
2 months later
Yep! It’s been quiet on the private thread because we are waiting for something for an update, we aren’t posting and then having 15-20 posts of others comments..
that have no skin in the game, or if they do they are refundable desposits..
As Far as fraud goes... How is taking money to start production, producing a game and then getting fucked over by the manufacturer, then going to a different manufacturer, getting ready to start up and then a court case by manufacturer that fucked You over..
Court case has been held, judge is to make a decision. That’s the FACTS at the moment..
This thread has been quiet because nothing to make speculation about, bitch about, others to comment.
Back to the private thread
Later Dudes!
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I genuinely hope everyone either gets their game or their money back but the notion of a private thread disturbs me alot. Part of the value of a community is the community, if more bad stuff happens and is only known in the private thread then how do you make sure no more people are ripped off? Its good that the court case is done though and hopefully this mess comes to an end.
Neil.
Hey Neil
The private thread was set up and I think it is a good idea. It has kept all the bull-shit out, look at the last 15 posts... anything productive, factual been said. Nope, just people giving their opinions, which if they are welcome to do, but I
as an TBL buyer don’t want to have to scroll through all these posts to find there is not 1 FACTUAL thing!
You say about more people getting ripped off. Like who? DP Stopped taking money/ depsosits after this happened. Who else a DP trying to rip off?! No one.. And they have gone on to try and get people their games.
As said another manufacturer was lined up and TBL was ready to go back to into production to get people their games..
It really does surprise me how people overlook this..
Did JPoP do this.. nope, did Heighway do this- the Pinball Bros.. nope.. they just fucked people over..
Quoted from Londonpinball:Pinhead1982
DP Tryed to get another manufacturer ????BS
Did they pay the first one ??? Nope
What “new manufracture ” would do a deal with bankrupt DP ??? That’s ridiculous
Jaap and Barry took out money for years.
People who rip people off never take responsibility.
Pinhead1982 you have your private thread created to defend DP’s scam congratulations.
Your friends Jaap and Barry don’t use pinside ?
If they are honest, why do they not communicate? They are ashamed, embarrassed and guilty.
Are you ever embarrassed to defend these guys ?
Pinsides who think DP was honest can down vote this post.
So the Xytech games don’t exist? Even tho they were shown at the Dutch Expo- ARA & Xytech games side by side...
Quoted from sd_tom:the posts of late have been a great reminder of why the private thread is useful
number of posts in last 2 days in private thread: 0
number of posts in last 2 days in this thread: 42
signal to noise ratio a lot better over there
Don’t know why I bite Tom..
back to private thread... care to join me
Quoted from colonel_caverne:You mean all the story with xytech is just hot air? Wow!
Btw, I always said all pinball fellows that were scammed should submitted a common complaint.
3 weeks later
4 months later
I have a Translite & TBL Playfield Set that I may be letting go of.
I think that you make a TBL up, all hardware on PF is Williams type.
The circuit boards - maybe Xytech will make the new type if we ask and My brother in law has a big metal manufacturing business in the family so could get. Bowling mech? Subway etc done..
This is if DP would give the EAs the CADs/ schematics.... who knows
2 months later
This is all speculation
Recent facts are
Barry has signed a contract with ARA.. I do not know what exactly- but why would ARA sign a contract with Barry just to sell the games if they already own them and Barry has to pay them!?
Barry has a lot of things to get lined up and will then tell us more..
1 week later
Quoted from sd_tom:i wonder if all this could fall apart during the inspection.. what if ARA didn't store the games climate controlled for the last 3 years as they were pissed and just moved them to where was convient/didnt cost them even more money. so, its very good they are getting inspected.. but also we'll see i guess too
Games stored in climate controlled environment- few games already opened and like new
1 week later
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I have been thinking about this ordeal and most of my curiousity revolves around the lack of inspection of built games and parts. It appears at first blush that only a cursory inspection by a compromised individual has occurred and will occur before purchase. I ask myself why.
Why doesn’t CoinTaker demand to be present and to inspect items for themselves?
Why didn’t DP inspect and take a complete inventory before the sale, when there are parts rumored to build 100 more?
Someone is being setup for disappointment and I think that person is DP and ultimately it’s customers. A complete and verified inventory would dispel uncertainty and reveal what is true. Why do I think this? Because nobody has insisted on an inventory and because ARA doesn’t want to build the games. That’s right, ARA has said your parts are in boxes, but don’t look closely. There are parts to build 100 games but ARA is requiring parts to be moved from their premises (a factory) and they won’t be assembling the games. Wonder why? They have experience, the parts are present, it should be easy money for ARA to build them. The only conclusion I can draw is that the parts are a mess. It may turn out that only enough key parts exist to assemble ten games. By the time inventory is taken and missing parts are ordered the year will be over and the license expired.
Jeff you are talking out of your arse.. you know nothing..
This thread just goes round in circles..
FACT- Inventory has been done- this was required by the judge..
If you are so sure licence has expired - shoot an email off to Rodger Sharpe. See if he responds, being a private client matter he may not. I have been told that licence is still there..
This thread makes me laugh.. When something FACTUAL arises I will share it.... on the private EA thread
Quoted from Dkjimbo:The biggest question here that has zero clarity is who the hell builds these other hypothetical 100 machines from parts? What factory and what set of tools and what humans? When was the last time Barry built a pinball machine personally by himself if ever? What is the cost to hire people and buy tools and equipment to actually build these and what do those realities do to the price, timing or likelihood that any game beyond the ARA games is ever made?
They have Top Men working on it!
Quoted from foxtj24:Zytech is out of the picture. They were never paid for what they already did. Rumor is they are the next to sue DP.
DP owe Xytech nothing
I created the Private TBL EA thread-
More stuff to come on there..
This thread is full of speculation worded like it’s Fact, people making shit up, The EA thread sticks to Fact- (depending on who you believe) I try to get Information from people with skin in the game and from Barry at DP.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:pic looks like the truck holds 10 games, so 4 trips with same driver or 4 trucks maybe? I was hoping to see a pic of all games in one frame, and yes those boxes look impressive. Employees return in Sep and that is when TBL parts will be trucked somewhere. Following that, Barry's visitor pass will be revoked and phone # blocked.
Barry will receive and store the hostage parts. He will still have no money, but much less debt. Good time to update DP financials. Assets = $300k pinball parts + license worth $200k that expires worth zero at end of 2019 + warehouse space for storing parts + 10k cash. Liabilities = $1.6M owed to EA's + $ owed to ARA + $ owed to Zytek + $ owed to suppliers + $ owed to lawyers. Everything looks good to me. Nobody is bankrupt and there is nothing here to see.
Ah Jeff.. there he goes again spouting shit of which he know Jack shit about
wolfemaaan you need to show some kind of respect to the 180 people that made this game happen.
1 week later
Quoted from dts:Yeah, I agree.
EA’s were NOT offered the games first.
Those with $1000 deposits at CT had first refusal.
As a EA I a little pissed that we were not offered the games first.
But I understand why Barry has done it.
I do hope that DP make EA’s whole again
Quoted from bounoun:Did you pay full ? Please dont tell me you really considered giving DP anymore of your money?
It’s unbelievable that this ponzi-esque scheme is allowed to continue.
Yes, paid in full- and would buy another to
1.) get a TBL
2.) to put €€€ back into get DP started back up again so that I may get my TBL#105
Quoted from NeilMcRae:There is absolutely no chance of that.
As I said Dave you guys should have got lawyers onto DP. The only asset or link to an asset they had was this one. The only liability they now have is to EAs and they are scattered all over the world. When the transaction happened between CT<->DP<->ARA there was a perfect opportunity to snatch these with an injunction. DP are trading insolvently and everybody is letting them get away with it. Part of me wishes I was in on this because I absolutely would have nailed these stealing bastards to the wall, still might not have got my game but it would be better than this situation.
I hope this comes good and I feel for those watching their games be unboxed by other owners. In reality the same thing happened with Alien with Heighway selling games to new customers before serving ones that had paid up. Hope everyone has learned on this.
Neil.
What happened with Alien- people lost out-
Predator- people Lost out.
Spending another god knows how much on a lawyer to loose out..
If DP go bust now- ARA is mostly paid off- the parts will then belong to EA’s as next creditors for DP- might get a game in bits! Only option is this one..
If you know how Dutch law works Neil - then please give me a PM
DP Have 200sq meters of parts - more than a few screws Neil- DP have a Inventory of most parts that ARA had.. a lot of the expensive parts are there other less expensive parts were ordered Lean...
This stuff I am keeping for the EA thread.. for people how actually have skin in the game.. everyone is entitled to their opinion- but when they state things as FACT or word it like they Know what’s going on.. they don’t Bar Barry, and a few others who are helping Barry sort games and no doubt will be helping Barry move the parts when the factory reopens.. of which some are EA’s...
Quoted from JustLikeMe:Cheers Dave, but that’s still version 0.48 which has been out since Jan 2017. Apparently more recent software should be coming out soon?
That is all there is at the moment.. 0.49 is in development- were all games shipped out with 0.45?
DP owns the rights/ code etc... for TBL
DP has to pay ARA for loosing court case.. Judge didn’t award the Pinball’s to ARA - they awarded €€€€ in which DP had to pay.
Only way DP could settle was to come to an arrangement with ARA to release games to sell to get them their money..
Did ARA contact CT.. Don’t think so,
DP contacted CT to get one financial transaction for the pins... far less
Messy..
The thing is.. if lawsuit is filed, and the 40 MADE games given to EA’s in line- what about the other 103 EAs - DP would 100% go bust-
Maybe parts for unmade games #?- let’s say 50.. that is still 50 EA’s left with nothing..
I hope it’s an All or nothing scenario..
Quoted from Roostking:Andrew is nowhere near the criminal Barry is turning out to be. Andrew will be kissing the "Don of all pin cons" ring soon.
Ha ha, if only you knew! AH was selling Aliens LE out of his back door... literally! Before he left.. I know, I know 2 guys that rolled up with a van, paid cash and loaded up games.. they were pre-orders!
Quoted from Time:NIB No.007 sold recently for 24/25k right? That was top dollar before the 40 released. Plus that was a true EA machine. I think these nihilist machines will have to go for less. Un-plaqued they're just aren't worth as much given the history and shitty situation. I'm hoping for more made at 12.5k. I shouldn't have hope in DP but I guess I still do.
Doesn’t matter about the history.. EA games have no difference- only the plaque. games have chrome trim and a rug..
Hopefully EAs will get something better down the line
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:I won't be buying any TBL assembled by DP in the future, even at $14k level, as that game would be made from EA's parts and the finished games should be getting shipped to EA's.
As apposed to the parts these games are built of? These games are worse.. not only were these games made for
EA’s.. from parts paid for by EAs there are now holes where an EA Plaque should be!
1 week later
Quoted from PtownPin:The only reason people are willing to fork out $12.5K is because they know they can play it for a while and then sell this game for a profit....if this game was readily available it would sell for $8K max....
8K max.. it’s more loaded than a Stern LE..
Color screen(was before stern)
Lower Bowling Ally playfield
Bash Car toy
Upper playfield
rug bash toy to reveal hole.
3 flippers
White Russian toy
Artwork is gorgeous
Little touches like pop bumper caps, bowling ball return machine,
Colour changing LEDs
Killer theme.
Good code
I would buy this over a JP LE
Quoted from CoinTaker:We happen to have 3 of the EA's due too us as well as we purchased some from other people when they wanted to bail. We are in the same exact boat as the other EA's. Hence trying to get these games back into production. We are just trying to see a great game made and hopefully someday (we are in the 100's on the EA list) see our games as well.
And we are far from nonchalant on this. If you say you want to see the EA's get there games, how on earth do you think that was going to happen if this lawsuit was not settled?
When you say 100’s - do you 100’s or several 100’s?
Quoted from foxtj24:If Barry truly has an investor now. Why not make all the EA games now and make them whole. Prove to the pinball community that he is a man of his word, Then start selling more games at a profit. Or is the investor not real?
Very much doubt an investor would stump up €1M & 6 months or whatever to make 150 games that won’t bring in any money..without seeing some €.
EA games will be mage along side at a ratio yet to be told.
Jack Did it with WOZ & Hobbit... it’s not new!
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from VividPsychosis:At the risk of being harassed again... Any EA’s with a GB prem/LE want to skip the wait? Game is available for sale still. Game+$. I know it isn’t the way you wanted a game but it’s an offer that is available to you if you so choose. Still need to sell and it looks like personal raffles are illegal or I would have offered up tickets to win it. Also, last weekend available before it goes to a stealership for my 17 supercharged c7 Grandsport 3lt A8, 538rwhp.
I have a GB LE... But logistics isn’t right.. oh and my TBL game is being built..
5DA182BF-9053-4FAF-B3D9-6D112C43844E (resized).jpegQuoted from Concretehardt:Yea I think I remember hearing that Barry got a handful of partially assembled games from ARA, I assume that PH1982 will be getting one of those games.
Partially assembled games went out I think. Don’t hold me to that.. but Barry is aiming for 4-5 games this week.
Quoted from fosaisu:If you're willing to share, how are the financials being handled for those in Europe ordering direct from DP? Do you pay nothing up front and then full amount when ready to ship?
No money up front - payment on game ready to ship-
Quoted from pinballslave:Bear in mind that the parts they're using to make the first few games are low hanging fruit... so it will need only a few extra parts to make them complete... as time progresses, unless Barry gas got his ducks lined up, things may actually slow down as more parts to complete games are needed... hopefully he will have these on order already!
Barry has been actively looking for new suppliers is getting Quotes to make all the new parts needed.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:This has been bugging me ever since Barry made this "4-5 games a week" claim.
All of the TBL games were built and assembled by ARA with a factory of skilled and talented workers who specialize in a task such as this. Now Barry has a pile of parts strewn around a storage area and he is personally going to assemble 4 to 5 games a week? ARA built 90 games in what, a year or so?
Now Barry is on track to smash the ARA production rate and crank out 208 to 260 games in the next year? Based on the picture of one single game that is half assembled and based on Barry's record over the past 4 years I am having a very difficult time believing it. A very difficult time believing anything that I am hearing or seeing based on one feakin picture.
Please be very cautious before sending any money. These claims are extremely hard to believe.
QSS
Barry wrote the book on instruction to build TBL, Barry trained the staff to build TBL. if anything he is more qualified
No money until game is ready to ship.
I guess We will see how many games Barry can produce in a week very soon
Quoted from mbwalker:Pinhead,
So what's the story on this one? One of the batch of 40? It's not a new build is it?
This is not one of the 40 - new build.
Quoted from Londonpinball:Don’t expect a straight answer, ever.
They are fishing for money and trying to show games being produced.
Looks like they have a few almost complete games that ARA built.
“They are building 2-5 games a week” BS
3 weeks later ONE game already build by ARA is about to be sent out to pinhead who helps DP avoid questions about when any EA games will be made.
Most likely DP will finish/cash out games already started by ARA and then make up another fat lie.
How are DP fishing for money.. Coin Taker are DP’s US distributor.. Ask Melissa NO money until games are boxed and ready to ship
Quoted from Londonpinball:Don’t expect a straight answer, ever.
They are fishing for money and trying to show games being produced.
Looks like they have a few almost complete games that ARA built.
“They are building 2-5 games a week” BS
3 weeks later ONE game already build by ARA is about to be sent out to pinhead who helps DP avoid questions about when any EA games will be made.
Most likely DP will finish/cash out games already started by ARA and then make up another fat lie.
How do I help DP avoid questions? I just save the answers for the Private EA group thread.
Quoted from Yelobird:As I didn’t follow along early are you an EA finally getting your product or a new cash buyer? Congrats on the game.
I am EA#105. The game is New money - yep I’ve bought it twice!
Quoted from pinballslave:Yes, I'm an EA... are you also involved? I have to admit, however, that my hot beverage claim is a bit speculative... Barry may prefer cold beverages... but this is the thread for speculation after all, so I'm just joining the party...
Stop winding them up Lee.. Barry... no Lee..
Londonpinball another pic
630402B2-B1CB-4066-AEE0-236A564FB65A (resized).jpegI heard the list is “extensive” this is good, as it shows demand. But as mentioned above- people get on the pre-order bandwagon (especially with no money/refundable deposit) and when it comes to paying up pull out.
I have only ever pulled out of 1 pre-order after saying I would buy a game (6 NIB in 3 yrs) - MM when they want from 1000 games to unlimited - and I already had a Williams one.
Anyway- back to demand- if it is there then it shows that the investment in DP, from the new investor point of view is good, and that what is needed to succeed will get done.
In Kanedas podcast he says EA games will be shipped after all new money is done- not true
Also says that 400+ games will need to be sold to pay for EA games. I have been told this is not true- around 400 game built is total including the EA games. So with extensive list in US & still EU to go- it does look possible.
Licence - yep runs out 31st Dec 2020- but most likely can be renewed after that if needed.
Quoted from knockerlover:How can any sane person look at this and think this business model of a one man show is ever going to work? EA's need to band together and sue if you want any chance of getting your money back. Because unless you are EA# 37-40 you're not getting one anytime soon, forget about those of us much later in line.
Mid-July is when Cointaker started taking orders for the 40 machines that ARA had. People started receiving those games in late August.. So theoretically Barry could have started getting parts and assembling them then, it's also possible he had partially or even fully assembled play fields. But let's just be really conservative and assume that Barry only started assembling games in September. I get it, he had to organize parts, and get his shop setup and that probably took the majority of his time. So even though he had more than a month to get one game out the door, let's assume that he can build one a week, or four a month. It will take him 9.6 years to build all 500 games by himself. Remember, this business model is make 400-500 games to make the EA's whole..
Remember, a huge majority of the revenue is going towards making EA's whole.. so it will be very unlikely that he will be able to afford people to help assemble those games. But let's assume he can hire a few more people and he can produce 8 games per month.. it's still going to take him over 4 years to make everyone whole.. Keep in mind, the more games he has out in the wild, the more support those games will need.. eventually it's going to become unsustainable, and he will need to hire to keep up with demand and pace, which he can't afford.
For perspective, Spooky puts out about 500 a year with I estimate about 20-30x the number of employees
Not sure where you get your reasoning from-
1.) ARA deal struck - took time to finalise deal-
Also unboxing checking 40 games - 8th August was last week Barry checking second batch of games from ARA to send to CT.
Barry got parts out of ARA after last batch of games shipped and ARA had been paid. Then they had the holiday (1 week) and parts moved after that to storage
2.)Took time to find a space- the space Barry found had a tenant already- took time for them to move out.
Barry got keys to space on 16th September.
Took time to get parts moved from ARA to storage - out of storage to assembly space
So that brings us up to Mid September- So 3 weeks to Move into assembly space, set up what he could, order storage racks/parts bins etc (which still waiting on)
And get 2 games made/finished tested whatever..
That’s not bad going!
who said Barry is make if the games on his own- the entire amount - Are you NUTS!
There is more information/pictures and EAs have been kept up to date a lot more by me in the Private EA thread
Also- and this is speculation - maybe Barry is looking to get parts for more games than he currently has in hand so when he does get a bigger workforce together they are not cranking out games quicker than the parts can be made, thus resulting in workforce getting paid but no games being made - which IS a waste of money!?
Quoted from Oldgoat:I don't know, when I look at the pictures in posts 10923 10936.... it doesn't scream well-organized to me. Not throwing rocks here. If you looked at my workshop, well trust me, I have no room to talk about great organization. Looks like packing materials laying about boxes stacked on boxes (and not neatly), etc. It's probably a good thing that it's a one-man band right now. It's a whole lot easier to get by with lack of organization and process when you are the only cook in the kitchen. It will be interesting to see how things progress.
Barry still waiting on shelving/racks for each station of assembly.
Pictures allow speculation and judgment- but don’t tell the whole story- Pictures with explanation and updates are on Private EA Thread. Which, I understand might not Encourage potential new buyer confidence, but with an already extensive interest list - (and there will be more interest once games are flowing) will stay on private thread
Quoted from knockerlover:Hey Pinhead1982, what did barry have for breakfast today? Your nose is so brown I'm sure you can tell by the smell.. Fill us in on the specifics then, how many employees whats the expected build timelines going forward?
I don’t know that stuff yet..
Hmmm my nose is brown!? If that’s you in your Avatar then thinking it’s you who’s been sniffing the brown stuff.
Quoted from knockerlover:Ok, from here on out then it will be very interesting to see what Barry and "his team" can produce. My guess is, it will be a continued stream of excuses now proxied through you and whoever his megaphone of the month is. My prediction, is he can sustain building a game a week for a little while until the next roadblock or two is hit.. then it will be back to radio silence more so than before.
So he and "his team" built 2 games in 3 weeks on top of a whole ton of other shit. Even if he and "his team" can build 8x that amount and then can build 16 games a month.. In 2.6 years all the EA's will be whole.. ludicrous
We shall see, right now DP is in its best position than it’s been in years. Suing DP would yield nothing.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:The “private thread” should be closed and open to public to read. The private thread for EAs is completely irrelevant and frankly at this point counter productive. Considering the EA’s ONLY hope now is new money and new buyers, and they refuse to join together and sue, there is no good that comes from any of their “private” conversations.
Disagree the Private thread keeps FACTS that we know- and very little speculation and pointless bullshit which this thread is 10700+posts out of 11000 are
Quoted from pinballslave:Ok, but the issue would then be that the content of the private thread will spill to the public area and the pointless criticisms would continue just as if the thread were open to everyone...
When games start hitting the streets the vibe will change and the good news will spread no doubt... if anyone really wants one of these games, I'm confident you'll be able to get one... the private thread won't damage that potential from what I can tell...
What Pinslave says..
FACT- CT have extensive list of people wanting TBL despite not knowing what is discussed on the EA thread. Why?? Because all they care about is getting a killer game and having a risk free prospect of owning a TBL.. This is not including EU sales.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Honestly the only people who benefit from information not being public are the people flipping games for 18k-20k... if there are facts that suggest the runway is clear and this is going to pick up steam then the current market premium over the purchase price evaporates.
Don’t buy them then! The days of flipping TBL for 20K is over. Just like BBB - soon as a whisper of BBB being remade some day- more Likely now Kingpin is being remade and Planetary have the Capcom rights
Give it 4 months and we’ll will see for sure if DP will make good and TBL prices will be what you pay
When my second TBL is ready - I plan on selling it on to recoup the outlay on the one arriving.
Even tho it will NIB I reckon I will have it up for £9.5K in UK (£11,000 is what I’ve just paid) because they will be available
Taking into account what I paid 5yrs ago and now. After selling the second game it would have cost me £8K
Quoted from Roostking:The guy above me happily admitted to buying 1 game, twice. So yes, there are some real winners out there and a fool and his money are soon parted.
Barry still owes me a second game, new money helps DP get some € rolling. Hey if if doesn’t work out then I have paid the equivalent of what a TBL is going for with limited numbers... 20K-
I’m no fool, but enjoy this hobby, I enjoyed this game when I played it. I don’t smoke, drink much or do drugs, that is money easily gone!
Game arrives in the next few Hrs!! I will post some pictures
Quoted from MPRAMONE:welcome to the "EA with a game club" , whenever in Paris come by and share TBL experience too
For me 10 games a month is what it gets , always want the rug to be "perfect" that's what you 'll want too I guess as time goes on
Why 10 games a month?
Quoted from Richthofen:I’m aware of what’s going on. The problem I have with it is that it’s not even proven there’s enough demand at 12,5k to get EAs their games. Now we are talking about a second game, which would have a different parts list and Barry would have to author his own schematics and hire someone to do new software, etc... how does that get them closer to the EAs getting their games? Any game that’s not Lebowski will by definition have a lower margin and make less sense than Lebowski because Lebowski already has all the up front work done (proven parts, testing, software, assembly order and instruction)...
Talking about a second game really reveals how delusional Barry must be. Look I know I don’t know the guy personally like many of you do, but any rational observer has to know there is no business plan that makes sense with a new game. He’d be starting from scratch and I think we all know how well that went the first time.
Calm down! . Barry is not working on his second game- his focus is on TBL
Quoted from crwjumper:pinhead1982 : Did you get a rug?
Yeah got a rug
Quoted from Yelobird:Sincerely congrats. Seeing that game at any cost cross your threshold of rugs had to be a happy happy day. If you would share, as a double payer did your game come with your long overdue plaque and any input on the bonus special accessory prizes he was pitching? Do hope you enjoy some closure, really is a special game with a Crazy story and history.
There is something special coming for EA games. They are not quite ready yet- Barry will send me mine in a couple of weeks.
Quoted from Yelobird:The first picture showing These games are going to the next EA's prepaid on the list will be a more impressive statement honestly. At double pay per game, I would work 24/7 to make 21K per game!
Barry has other people working on different assemblies- then they all come together.. he may even take his work home with him
Imagine...wiring up a bowling Mech whilst watching an episode of Friends..
1 week later
Quoted from highdef:Wow.
I can't believe it's been exactly 5 years:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lebowski-presentation-at-expo
Sure is!
After a little tweaking-Rug switch, Pop bumper spoons, flipper alignment & error message removal- TBL is playing sweet!
5yrs ago TBL did set a standard - colour display, internet connectivity
Quoted from Richthofen:You think the issue was timing? DP had no problem selling games. It was delivering them for the price they set that was the issue.
I think it was more of a “cover all eventualities” in a contract!
Quoted from highdef:Worth the wait and hassle?
It’s a fun game, which I think shoots well. The look of the game, and the features DP have packed into are great.
If the code is improved and finalised In think this could be a Top 10 game... maybe even 5 
1 week later
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Some dream for Barry restarting the line and him building and selling 500 TBL. Some wish 150 games would be made from parts and them be given to EA's who bought them once. Some hope he makes 10 games from parts on hand. And here we are ... hoping, wishing and dreaming.
Well Jeff, 7 have been done so far
Quoted from luvthatapex2:That was not the proposed plan for new builds I read. Money was to be held by distributor until game is read to ship.
Unless you are saying profits from shipped games are being used for parts.... that would be acceptable.
Yes that is what I am saying
2 weeks later
Quoted from flynnibus:So should we lower our expectations from 'how can he do 50 games a month..' to 'how can he get past 2 games previously partially completed games completed?'
10 BUILT FROM SCRATCH games have gone out.
1 week later
Quoted from Time:You know they say a picture is worth 1000 words.
[quoted image]
F0909F15-6D98-4937-9CBA-59C24F2AA527 (resized).jpegQuoted from fosaisu:From the payment they received for the ten games they've apparently shipped so far:
Plus I guess anyone outside the US that's been daft enough to give preorder money directly to DP.
No more pre-order money. You pay when game is ready to ship
1 month later
Quoted from Capn12:That's ok...I've asked twice via email, and received ....no answer. Not sure what is better, silence or the runaround...
CT aren’t good at replying to/ getting straight answers from anyone at the moment...
I’ve been waiting 3 months for my Munsters Topper!
3 months later
Here’s an offer..
I’m EA 105..
Some of us EA’s came to an arrangement- buy another game and get our EA game now,
Then, when our number is up in line receive a standard TBL.
I will offer my spot - for $10,000.
Save $2500, or... looking at the amount these things go for, save $5000...
Quoted from Pinhead1982:Here’s an offer..
I’m EA 105..
Some of us EA’s came to an arrangement- buy another game and get our EA game now,
Then, when our number is up in line receive a standard TBL.
I will offer my spot - for $10,000.
Save $2500, or... looking at the amount these things go for... save $5000...
1 week later
Quoted from fosaisu:Approximately 90. I don’t know that anyone knows the exact count from several years ago when DP was first shipping games, but I’ve seen the number 50 repeated here. Then last year, 40 additional games (that were manufactured years ago but had been sitting in a warehouse awaiting resolution of a mfr dispute) were sold (or resold depending on your POV) for $12.5k USD, and I believe those still have the “Early Achiever” designation. And just recently one EA was notified that he’ll be receiving the game he paid for, so you can add that to the tally of EA games produced.
The hope is that DP will be able to sell enough new games at $12.5k to fund production of the ~135 games it owes to the EAs. But in the meantime the EAs are still out the money they paid years ago.
Think you are confused In a nutshell
ARA make 50 games and send to EA’s
ARA had 40 games, some complete and some missing few parts- these were supposed to be EA games but do not go out and these were held due to issues with contract.
After lawsuit - DP looses
The 40 games were then sold by Coin Taker to clear DP’s debt to ARA.
So 50-53 ish EA have their games-
DP I think took 180 - 200 deposits/full money out of the Original run of 300 proposed machines.
So DP owe say 180 - 53 = 133 EA games to its fully paid investors!
Quoted from extendo:All good fellas, thank you for the information. This seems all very messy and people are still waiting for the games that they payed for years ago.
In a nut shell there are about 133ish odd EA games that still need to be made.
Then customers can purchase a non EA game from either Dutch or CT or MOP?
The waiting time is huge!
Now you are confused!
DP are taking orders for games. - In order fo EA to get their games DP need new money and so are selling games through CoinTaker to build cash reserve to be able to complete owed games. Currently looks like 1 EA game to 4 New money games
There is a wait list- you will have to ask Mellissa at CT for the estimated timeframe, but it is not as long as waiting for 130
EA games to be built
Quoted from TRAMD:Dang that Achiever apron looks damn cool. I'm still waiting for my call from Melissa so I can send my check and be 1/3 of an EA getting their game!
Much appreciated!
Yeah Apron is Very Cool!
DP, I think will be selling lighted Aprons separately.. Minus the Achiever Edition Cut out.
Currently the apron interacts in attract mode, and is on during play. With further code updates it will interact with the game more
I think price is €595
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:Are any these EA games original money or new money from an already invested EA???
1/3 or 4 will be an EA game- old money.
Some EA’s, like my self bought another TBL - putting new money into DP - these games are being/have been made First.
When my turn - number (105) is up, I will receive a standard game, as I’ve had my EA game.
Hope that makes Sense
Lights fade in and out of different stars when in play. Really well done, it will only get better.
It’s as good as a topper. Yeah the price is pretty steep, but you can actually see what it’s doing whilst playing, toppers not so much.. it’s quite mesmerising actually.
Mark my words, Stern will copy this idea within the next few titles!
Except this was not possible a few years ago.
Barry has a great game, one with a ton of features.
It has been a saga, with communication still poor, NSNL very few and far between, which is not good.
Barry just wants to build games, clear his debt To EA’s and, I think wants to move on and make DP a contender in the Pinball world..
I’m gonna sound like a Fan Boy, but if Barry can do this. With TBL.. I’m looking forward to DP next game. Which will hopefully be less of a drama!
Quoted from Concretehardt:That apron is beautiful! Has Barry made any of the lighted non achiever aprons to sell yet?
No sure, email and ask him!
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I think all EA that are getting a game are only because they bought a second one. That 1 in 4 is pretty misleading if so.
Has a single EA gotten a game without buying a second one?
Wrong!
You are confusing yourself
It not really that hard to understand...
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:But you’ve bought two. My other friend that is an EA bought a second one too.
Is 52 the first EA game who didn’t buy two?
Yes, that’s correct... from now on Old
Money EA games will be built on a ratio of 1:3 so EA’s will be made while.
I bought a second game, yes, and so did a few other EAs in high numbers because the wait would be long. I’ve had my game from around October last year..
We are not getting a game only because we bought a second one.
Barry is using True Serial production- this means that games are made and shipped to EA in number 52,53,54,55 etc, No skipping the line.
It pissed a lot of us EAs off that DP
1.) sold games to CT without offering us the chance to buy them first
2.) that new orders were being taken and games going out with no mention of how EA’s were going to get their games
Some EA’s came to an arrangement with DP that if we bought a second game and injected new money into DP
We would get our EA game now (instead of a standard) and then, when our turn in line came up we get a standard instead of EA version - basically swapping games round...
DP now has enough money to start producing EA games on ratio to new games and the games will start coming out in order of serial number
Does that make sense?
Yeah Achiever Edition.
EA’s have the choice of either 2nd game or refund of the first TBL payment... when it was cheaper!
Which does suck!
Think most EA’s will take the second TBL, store it or sell it for couple grand less to balance out the total cost.
Although with the wait list - an EA might make a profit on it!
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:I'm planning to take delivery of my second TBL and sell it for $12,500. If I can get more great, but I should at least be able to get $12,500 NIB. That way my total cost is my original outlay.
Would be nice!
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Would you offer a refund should it fail to be delivered by end of 2021?
I have faith in DP - so yeah I would refund the money and take it up with Barry.
6 months later
Quoted from Kneeno:Yeah everything boots fine other than what I mentioned. "coin door lights, start button, fire button, coin door acknowledgement button, flippers". Also the menu buttons inside the coin door. I have a power issue to this area obviously.
Thanks!
Mike
Check fuses!?
6 months later
8 months later
Yeah Rensh Big Bang Bar Pinball Inc remake.
It has loads of hard to get stuff spare.
When I had it I got spare
Circuit boards
El wire arrows
Green tube on playfield
Drop targets and original decals
Cabinet decals
Wireforms
Plastics set x 2
Black light tubes
Tube dancer - flesh coloured I think…
A hell of a lot of stuff..
1 week later
6 months later
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