Quoted from eggbert52:
So wait, you don't actually OWN the game? Why is it in your lineup then? Also, is that you selling a "spot" for $8,500? That's just as fraudulent as JPop, DP and Skit B themselves.
You never even ordered the game and were negative about it all the way until you bought a stock unit... for what appears to be just for personal gain. Then you jump into this thread like you're the king of TBL or something. Give me a break. Just because you managed to scam your way to one of the 50 or so games released doesn't make you anything more than speculator who is only worried about how much his game is worth.
This sounds like a Ponzi scheme in the works.
Take everyones money.. .then gain confidence from those that lost the money that if they just give more, everything will be delivered as promised. And the second batch of money gets taken and never seen again also.
No thanks, I'm out... unless I can buy a machine that's in hand from a reputable dealer, I wouldn't send a penny too these jackasses
$12,500? I'm out. You still have all the unknowns (being stuck with a game with no replacement parts, buying a game that's been sitting for 3-4 years in an unknown warehouse (climate controlled or not?).
Too bad this has come to this. All of those that have been in for so long are still hosed btw.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
The games never sold for more than $7.5k, right? So why guess a starting price so high? I’d guess they will be offered between 7.5k (price before 2nd compan crash) and 10k (expected pricing after EA editions) before taxes, shipping and import tariffs, which may add another 1k-3k. DP’s approach will be interesting.
iceman44 ARA will allow the sales to go forward only because they will be listed on the bank account. All sales will be deposited directly into this account, duh, and ARA has full access to the money when it rolls in. If you were ARA, what is not to like? ARA will dictate where the funds are sent and when they can be withdrawal. They won and Barry wants to make them whole first, evidently.
Might not be a long wait before Big Lebroski’s from China, start entering the market. I’d buy one for $5k to join the EA club (Early Awakers club).
Don't kill the messenger, but this is what I heard from a reliable source who has had a deposit down for quite some time.
Quoted from mrbillishere:
I am really surprised that CoinTaker is going to be involved at all, in any way, under any circumstances.
God bless Cointaker for everything they do, including helping this whole situation out. They are SAINTS IMO.
That being said, the price increase sucks and my follow up to this is- with the freeing up of TBL to be produced down the road, how will they be produced (by who) and how much will they by (Continued at $12,500) or is this the knee-jerk price to snag those that have been desperate for a NIB TBL?
On top of that, will the newly produced games be the same boards, parts, etc.
All questions that need to be answered for those moving forward!
Quoted from CoinTaker:
You can think shame on CoinTaker, but it was we bring the games to the US and offer to people who want them or they go overseas.
We are not making a huge profit on this in anyway shape or form. We are simply trying to offer customers who want this title the option to purchase
and are hoping that Barry can find an investor and get this back up and running...By the way, I am one of the EA holders as well and have even purchased
some of the EA's place in line and I am not keeping any of these games for myself. I am out the funds as well if this never takes off for several spots.
What is the plan past the current 40-50 games currently being held?
Ok so they are releasing the games that have been sitting at $12,500.
Do we have enough interest to sell the next 100 games beyond that at $12,500 also?
What about the code? Any further development on this? To be honest, I thought the code was good when I played one years ago but I've heard from owners that it needs more?
I think we can all agree, based on what we've seen from other pinball manufactuers other than Stern, that it's not easy to fire up a pinball production line and start rolling out games
The amount of whining in this thread is just ridiculous. The original machines were lost by DP because of horrendous accounting and practices, and as such, the machines no longer belong to DP. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. The money was given to DP and THEY lost it.
An example I can think of is I have a friend that gave his money to a real estate investor back in 2008 who promised him a huge return on a property he was buying (he should have known better and he admits it), and he lost BIG. The money he invested went into a house that was foreclosed, and he never got a thing. He doesn't drive by the property the investor bought and think he has a claim to the house now nor does he believe he should have been given any rights to buy it later. It went south, it hurt, and that's the facts. He got burned by the investor, and boy does he know it (the investor ended up in jail).
So when the property went up for auction, he didn't show up and tell all the bidders he hope the house burned down and that the house went up in flames... mainly because it was the investor that burned his money up!
I don't know why some people on here don't get it!!
I am very sorry to those that lost their money on the initial investment, as I am sorry for my friend. But let's not confuse how things have to move forward.
I am glad to see more games coming and hoping for success moving forward. Perhaps this success will then lead to some money being returned to the initial investors getting some money back, which would be better than nothing!
So what if Cointaker is actually paying $10K per Game and charging $12K plus shipping ($12.5)? Does that change anything?
I thought these "new" units were supposed to ship beginning of August... any updates? Melissa?
Imagine if DP hadn't been so arrogant with everyone's money and actually came to terms with ARA and rolled with the price increases at the time and the machines would have continued down the line. To me this is just confirms the mis-management of people's money and the arrogance DP had which ultimately caused so many to lose so much.
Buying one of these right now (one of the 40 being released) just seems too risky for me... Sure looks like there are plans on a bunch of more machines being produced, and if so, that $12,500 isn't going to hold up long term... no way. Plus, you get ZERO warranty and while there appears to be "spare parts", these "spare parts" aren't going to be for repairs to your out of warranty brand new machine.
Will the guy that has had the TBL machine with the non-functioning bowling alley finally get a new unit to get his game up and working? And who wants to be the next guy that buys a game at $12.5K to have a malfunction like this only to have a big part of the game (visually, perhaps not play wise but still) sit broke?
Are we being reassured that some of these spare parts will be left aside for repairs or ? Of course this is about pumping out more machines, so all of the parts are a hot commodity to make that happen, sold machines are of what priority to a company like this (LOL).
Quoted from VividPsychosis:
You really shouldn’t post when you clearly have no idea about the facts from those that purchased one of the 40. You aren’t being reassured because you didn’t buy one. Those that did, know what assurances are available.
Sorry I am not part of the total transparency of DP LMAO. If you are going on a verbal "we will have parts" from DP, well, good for you! They have an amazing track record of delivering on promises. If you have something of substance, ie, in writing, lets see it!
And I did have the opportunity to buy one of the 40, I had a deposit over 2 years ago with Cointaker... maybe you shouldn't post when you clearly don't have facts?
One of the things I have been told is that any new machines, if indeed produced, will have new boards and possibly new parts that are incompatible with the old games. So I think my concerns are valid.
Comical that they came to a settlement and the immediate concern is the 3 week vacation the Dutch are taking. LMAO.
I just hope everyone over there is rested up after their 3 week paid national vacation. I would be so upset to know they weren't relaxed and had some pocket money to throw parties or travel.
I never thought I'd see the day where the old packed pinball machines saw the light of day! WOW.
They are making more machines and have planned on making more for about 6 months while all this was being negotiated. I can't reveal my source. Believe me if you want. I believe my source.
They are not telling the buyers of these machines being released because, just like DP was, it's pure deceit to influence the overpriced market based on limited #'s and perception that no more machines will be produced.
Those that are excited to get in at $12.5 now better sell fast.. once the other 200 plus machines get rolling who knows where the price will be then. More machines out there also equals less spare parts if/when machines break, etc.
Quoted from Concretehardt:
If/when more games are made I have confirmed from "my source" the new price will be $12,500 and that wont include shipping.
(I also believe my source as she has far more info than anyone in this thread)
More games equals more spare parts in the long run.. so more games is better for everyone as the community has shown that parts will be made if there are enough games in circulation to create demand.
Right, but those newly produced machines "she" is talking about will have different electronics and components that are incompatible with the old games, right? So now, potentially if this is all true, you will have "Batch A" and Batch B" games, all with various different electronics and components.
Either way, to me, TBL seems to be kinda risky to buy? But good for all those making the move forward. I just hope I can play one locally when it's all said and done.
So would the hand-built-by-Barry games being built now be worth more or less than the original batch? Or the same? What about the China prototypes? How many of those are there and are they going that route once the ARA Parts run out?
This whole thing is confusing.
Quoted from kvan99:
Well, there is the rub, the wrong 40 people.......while the guy who wronged people is getting more funds, let's see how many of those TBLs make it into EA's hands.
Anyone care to wager?
Where have you been? The money went to ARA! No more money will be going to Dutch Pinball unless a game is ready to ship to a person per Cointaker.
EA's now have "a chance", without someone stepping in and helping (like CT), there would be ZERO chance. A chance is better than none, don't you think?
So my question is this- DP is claiming that they will be eventually getting games to EA's as things progress... does this also mean that an EA's can simply just get their money back since the equity is there?
Cointaker is the only one doing anything to make TBL happen. They don't need the hassle, but they are doing it. If you think this is making them rich, you're crazy. I'm sure they don't need it, quite frankly. But they are the most logical as they have been helping with this since BEFORE DP shit the bed. For Cointaker now, it seems to be "no good deed goes unpunished" from my perspective. Jesus, it just seems like if anyone wants to help, the people helping "need to be attacked!!!"
People just have to attack something when something goes wrong, including those trying to make something good happen.... and this is a prime example.
The fact that more TBL machines are rolling out right now is GOOD. Period. There's so much to this story... for those jumping in and getting excited after reading a few posts, go to page 1.
Quoted from seenev:
I get paid for my time, but I don't work with criminals like Barry.
There is a HUGE difference between bad business and "criminal" and your statement to Cointaker is ridiculous. Barry has not faced criminal charges. This was civil.
If people were thrown in jail for bad business that's all the jails would be full of.
Get a grip!
Not sure of the guys problems but I wish him and his family the best.
However, no one is paying $21K for this game right now... period. Doesn't seem like the seller genuinely wants to sell the game if that's the asking price. I'd say that no matter what anyones situation was. Sure a few sold for $18-20K when we thought we'd never see more than the 58 or so games.. now the field is wide open for chances.. as slim as they seem, I didn't think we'd ever see these 40. People desperate for money price things to sell.
I've known many guys with a ton of toys that appeared to be rich, but in reality, they were comfortable and really didn't have tens of thousands to give away. Guys can be leveraged and playing games with banks to look like they are rich, for example. And I've known rich guys that appeared ridiculously poor also. So saying this guy is well off w/o truly knowing just because he's got some cars is conjecture. Not knocking the guy, just addressing the comments on here from people that act like they know his true financials. If he was truly filthy rich he could just stroke a check for the medical stuff, right? The story is perfect to ward off the criticism, to some extent, of a quick flip though.
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