(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (3 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (3 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (3 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (2 years ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#3360 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

DP stopped paying ARA after they asked for more, I don't know how it works in Holland, but if you owe money and don't pay the bills then the creditors can sell what they have in possession to cover costs.

Interesting, so you are saying ARA might be inclined to directly sell off the machines to, say, us?

1 month later
#3936 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

What does make sense about Dutch Pinball these days?

There, I fixed it for you

#3937 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

BOP is the only thing that makes sense really. And in a way it makes sense from a delivery standpoint. All the parts are there, programming done, just get the license and make 25 special ones. Even fits that weird part of the ARA story where they were gonna have 50 of game 2 made.
If game 2 were a brand new theme/game, this would start feeling jpopish. If they announced Pulp Fiction or Trailer Park Boys and wanted full pay pre-order money it would sound like a Hail Mary plan or Jpop scheme. Trying to generate extra cash from a special BOP is at least less stupid than a second brand new pin. I guess.

As gossip continues to flow in, it is suggested the initiative for ready-to-run BoP 3.0 machines came from Cointaker. Maybe Dutch has not much to do with the project except possibly some small modifications to the already existing software. I doubt they will have a big part in the funding or the fabrication and as such, I doubt it was meant as a way to fund ARA-gate.

(yes, many suggestions, maybe's and doubts in this message, but you get my drift)

#3954 2 years ago

So basically they are selling translites for $250. Unfortunately they seem useless in a regular BoP (or 2.0), else I might even be interested

#3957 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

At $12,500, VDL better have other business and activity to fall back on. I foresee crickets and paper airplanes.

Apparently, they also manufacture cars.

#3961 2 years ago

I wonder, would any of the TBL buyers be willing to pay the €1000 and free their machine?

#3965 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Well, they have giant Dutch balls, you gotta admit that!

Well they do, coming up there in person to tell this story in front of an audience of duped TBL buyers. And taking orders for the next title at the same time.

#3982 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Really?? Man, the phantasy of some people, unbelievable.

Did you follow Magic Girl-gate? Of dichter bij huis, MMR-gate?

#3991 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Yeah, I would make myself an outcast in the pinball community, destroying a lot goodwill (needed for startups more than else), upsetting everybody, stopping production and thus not getting the money from the TBLs ordered by CT and Nitro, etc to make a usd 1000 extra. Yeah, you are right, I see it now
Come on Maurice, you know Barry and Jaap. If you really think they are capable of doing such a scam I suggest you sell your BoP2.0. I would at least not wanna be associated with people doing something like this.

Hey Rens, don't get me wrong. I most certainly don't think Barry and Jaap are setting this up, neither am I selling my BoP 2.0

I do however understand that people who have money in, have fears. I do not call that a rich fantasy, given recent history. I understand their sentiment.

#4001 2 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

I cannot believe nobody wants to buy my spot!
#148
Paid in full

Oh I want to buy it. Did you have an ad listed?

#4429 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I agree, we are not there yet but it's a big step in the right direction on a road which will have for sure some bumps in it.
However, if the new person in charge and DP are on speaking terms and both are willing to work it out (Can confirm DP is) there is a good chance it can succeed.
If the in the newsletter mentioned 50 Bops are really required to make it work I think it's a lot easier to sell 50 extra TBL as 50 Bop3's (sorry Barry, I know you made the artwork on Bop3 )

Why would it still be required (to sell extra machines) to bring in extra cash, now that the Extortionist at ARA is gone? One would think they would now honor the original contract.

#4503 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

It isn't fake news but alternative news
I know somebody who is supposed to pick up his Alien at the factory this Friday. I will ask him afterwards his experience. Really very curious to see the Alien. Alien is a killer theme for me. Bought a TBL because it was Dutch pinball, not because of theme allthough I knew the movie. With Alien however ..... . Problem is space, can only have 3 pins. Have now MET and AC/DC which ain't going anywhere and NF which will be replaced with TBL. No space for an Alien

I am offering to keep it for you in my living room - for free!

#4506 2 years ago

Shouldn't new shit have come to light by now?

1 month later
#4769 2 years ago

Yes he left. Told me to speak to Barry for further details (I asked how DP was supposed to move on without him).

I reckon Scott might be able to step up, once he finishes TnA

#4771 2 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

I cannot imagine that Scott would do that.
He is no longer affiliated with DP.

He isn't? Everything is falling apart...

#4852 2 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

2. Forget the assumption that DP is broke. I have no reason to even assume that and nobody who suggested they are have any form of proof even remotely indicating that. The only reason they refused to pay ARA in the first place was because ARA raised the prices of the games due to poor project management and overpaying for parts on their end. In the decision not to pay ARA were principles involved, which is completely unrelated to whether DP could pay them.

Then the question is, what brings ARA in a position to make this offer? On what grounds do they think they can hold those machines hostage? They must have a legal base for that, one of which can be that payments are long overdue and money is gone. Why else would DP even consider this takeover?

Quoted from unigroove:

Keep in mind that ARA doesn't have any experience in selling pinball games. The collectors market they may be able to sell some games to, but the operators market requires a different approach. Being able to make games doesn't mean you're able to sell them in the quantities you want them to sell.

They don't need to. Acquiring DP comes with the network, Cointaker and Nitro will be happy to sell those pins off.

2 weeks later
#5062 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Anyone interested in buying my spot for #56, which has been sitting at ARA since September '16, it's for sale. I just want the $8500 I paid for it. If I actually take delivery, I'll be selling it for $10k+
Have patience or a gambling spirit and wanna take it off my...well, not my hands...take it off my conscience? Hit me up.

You make it sound like a great deal, but chances are slimming down by the minute, shouldn't you be selling your spot for (a lot) less than what you paid? I have seen people selling RAZA or AIW spots for under half of what they paid for it.

2 weeks later
#5467 2 years ago

If they sue ARA, they might not win, as ARA might file for bankruptcy (as I understand, Nivoge wanted to use DP to inject money in ARA, they might also just let it blow)...

#5473 2 years ago

They could also force ARA to just release the already built ones for the agreed price, using this short procedure.

#5484 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

This is not how I understood Jaap's words. Pls note that approx 100 people are working with ARA and you just dont file bankruptcy because otherwise you need to cough up like 500-1000K ? Very costly way to avoid payment ....

They did not say that, it was my interpretation of what could happen. Since Nivoge mentioned Ara needed money anyway, this might tip them over the edge.

#5486 2 years ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

It wouldn't surprise me if ARA suddenly decided to honor the original contract once DP has a new CM willing to finish TBL. It would be less costly than a lawsuit/scrapping all the games and materials.

It would also be a breach of contract.

-4
#5524 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

There is no one out there willing to pay the whole 8500 dollars, lets not be stupid. It just happened to go to the guy with the loudest voice and a straight line to the people who control the license and guess what..... he didn't even have his machine for sale. Good work Rarehero I tip my hat to your brilliant play. Thanks Barry for paying out the select ONE you choose to pay with my money and every one elses. Let me guess someone wanted a spot and you just happened to choose Rarehero and sent a personal wire to his account. This one stinks to high heaven and wires don't lie, however it's proven DP does.

A lot of accusations/speculations here, or do you have any proof?

#5632 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Ok, so I agree with you guys that the unpaid for machines are what can salvage this operation, I've mentioned that before.
Where I start to disagree is in regards to DPs stated plan. It is good to know they at least admitted they dont have enough money to build the 150 paid for machines. Sounds like they may have enough money to get a new CM through the pre-production process (development/prototypes/testing again). And that's if a new CM comes back with a figure that fits inside the TBL build budget.
From there I have a hard time believing anyone will loan DP enough money to build the 150 machines. Look at the business plan. Sticking with an overall net of 20% per unit on this project, the numbers can work, but it's a really tough road. The 150 machines that have already been paid for would have to be paid by loan, loan has to be repaid by profit on next batch of machines (bc ZERO money comes in on the first 150 units).
And they don't need to borrow enough money to build 150 machines, the first 150 pay ZERO money to them. They need enough to build the Cointaker machines too. So a loan for 250 machines so that they can actually start collecting money.
If 20% net per unit is correct (and I think it's less) they have to sell around 5 new units for every 1 of the 150 to break even. So they have to have a total run of somewhere around 750 plus 150 to build their way out of this with a new CM. 900 TBLs. That's a pretty big run, I'd certainly be glad if that happened!

This is only true if they are flat broke now, which I don't think. They just don't have enough money to refund 150 EA's (probably because they advanced on the profit margins).

#5723 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

In regard to the 40K salary story. I checked this with a bookkeeper.
There is no minimum salary you have to take out the company but but but the government will tax you like you took out 44KEUR as a salary. So even if you take zero salary taxes will have to paid compliant with a 44K salary. So you might as well take it out as when you leave it in the company you have to company tax on it.

Except one might argue it's not theirs to take

#5757 2 years ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

Who would trust them to deliver at this point?
I've played about 20 games on a BOP 2.0 and couldn't seem to do anything except start the multiball a bunch of times per game (5 or 6 times = a bunch)... Or maybe I just suck!

Try shooting the scoop next time to start one of the many modes

#5795 2 years ago
Quoted from kurgan999:

Is complete edition sold out?
Is there a chance that they will make more latEr?

I think this chance is about 99%.

1 week later
#5836 2 years ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Wow, must be the smallest response ever on a NSN
DP took the license hurdle, this is a small step for DP, big step for us achievers

I believe two weeks ago it was said there was no license hurdle, now they overtook it?

1 week later
#5882 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

DP has put their cards on the table. Claims to have a deal with a new CM to make the game and has begun ordering parts for it. They appear to be walking away from ARA, the parts, and the contract. If that doesn't cause a lawsuit to happen, I don't know what would.
So, whatever is gonna happen ought to happen soon.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds

*grabs popcorn

#5936 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's good news that the company is one that at least Jaap already has a relationship with and should know the main actors involved.
There should be fewer unknowns and less chance of skullduggery. Also more leeway in the event of difficulties.

Makes one wonder tho, why they did not engage with them in the first place...

2 months later
#6103 2 years ago

I wonder if the China TBL (CTBL) will also cost less than the Dutch one

2 months later
#6576 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

On the topic of BoP 2.0, the plastic that returns the ball to either the right inlane or back to the ball launcher (fed by the PinBot upper pf), has essentially been removed from the game in 2.0, which is a bit of a shame. It does nothing.

I have the thing here too, I really don't understand what you mean. How can a plastic be removed by a software kit?

#6579 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It plays no role in the game whatsoever other than as a return, and there's zero point getting the ball there anymore as it doesn't do anything in 2.0. So it might as well be removed.

There is a gain in nudging it towards the shooter lane, as it will give you another skill shot. if yours does not do that, check the shooter lane switch.

1 month later
#6666 1 year ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

I sort of wish Rensh was making TBL.

Or at least DP could employ Rensh as their spokesperson

1 month later
#6914 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I have said it befor but also over here it is rather simple to pursuit unpaid bills.
However, you need to proof you deserve to get paid and did your part of the deal. Just suppose that DP has been telling the truth an investigation will proof immediately that ÄRA didn’t fulfill their part of the deal and breached the contract..... So the lack of action from ÄRA where I guess they have at least like 750K at stake (remember that they prepaid a lot of the parts) is proof for me that DP is telling the truth.
Otherwise I totally fail to understand why ÄRA hasn’t filed a payment claim. They are a reasonable sized company but also for them 750K is no small change.

rensh, Just out of curiosity, why do you spell it like ÄRA?

#6933 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

That’s the auto spelling of my mobile .....

You *can* correct the auto-correct

1 month later
#7072 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

with JPOP now convicted

Wait, whut??

</offtopic>

1 week later
#7303 1 year ago

People here wonder what ARA has to gain from this, as they will probably not get any money from DP. So here is my take on this:

How I understand Dutch law, if they win the claim, they then might own all assets including the 40-ish finished machines, and are legally allowed to liquidate (sell) them, of course pending the license issue. We do not know the contents of the claims filed, but I would imagine they are trying to obtain those as well (it may very well be the most valuable asset DP is still holding on to).

1 week later
#7678 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I don’t get it apparently.
ÄRA sents a letter accusing DP and ‘everybody’ falls over DP, they are scumbags etc.
...
And now a lot of you go in defense mode for ÄRA?? I feel like living on another planet.
...
money was caused by lack of action from ARA. ÄRA has itself to blame for this !!
...
with DP but the guilt with ÄRA. DP had all agreements with them to make TBL a reality but ÄRA decided to f*ck a stranger in the alps. By not doing what they
...
this to block new income for DP and get them bankrupt. A bankrupt company can’t win from ÄRA ......

Rensh, please, fix your "autocorrect" so it will no longer "correct" to ÄRA.

3 months later
#8340 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamberger:

Feel bad for guys that payed up front, anyone want to sell their full paid spot for $500?
$500 less you don't loose, and I roll the dice. Most likely I will loose too, but the thrill of it! priceless.

I offer the same deal, for $1000 no less!

7 months later
#8778 7 months ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I spoke to somebody this week who spoke 3 weeks ago with the director of ARA. This after the Kanada podcast, he wanted to see if it could be true. Now we know it wasn’t but he did learn the TBLs and parts are still there but the manufacturing line has been dismantled completely. Again shows ARA have no interest in starting up production again.
Even if ARA wins I am doubting they can sell the 40ish TBLs sitting there. Not only because of Universal studio but a pinball without the software where clearly the IP is with DP? Sounds useless to me.

I'd like to take on that challenge. Sell me one of those 40 "useless" machines without software

1 month later
#8846 5 months ago
Quoted from Lamberger:

PM's received, had a smooth transaction...Thank you.
looks like I'm in on the wait and hope list too.
Also have a buddy willing to risk $1000 if anyone else is interested.
Cheers!

#metoo

1 month later
#9277 4 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

All games sold out pretty much instantly. I tried immediately and the 35 in the US were gone.

35? Before, it was mentioned CT got 40. Where did the other 5 go?

3 months later
#11099 19 days ago

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