The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider kvan99.
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Quoted from ToucanF16:Been following this thread in anticipation and am jealous of all you guys. I whimped out at the last minute and didn't get a preorder. Kicking myself...
Well..you're not alone. It's funny to see so many of the (Philgate) naysayers are back now. This is by far the best thing in pinball for a long time. Yeah it's expensive but so are all the other LEs and this blows the doors off the other guys.
Wow...another let down by a pinball company, I really have to find another hobby to offset this one. can't take too much more of this shit. We need a scapegoat to bash here. I nominate Jpop, it's all his fault..wait Kevin too, f-it also Gary. A pox on all their houses. 
You know what sucks about this whole thing? We have normalized this, this f*ed up behaviour......I remember when this whole thing blew up, it was over ARA wanting almost a thousand bucks more per game....now all of a sudden it's $4000, and now the guy who ripped off the community is once again benefitting. I also want to ask Cointaker why are they enriching this guy, is Cointaker benefiting financially from this also? Why wasn't there a resolution agreement regarding the pre order folks before the deal was struck? How can as a community let other people's game get flipped for profit? This should not be normalized.
Quoted from pinballslave:My understanding is that the profit from the sales of the initial games made will be used to build games that will be given to EAs... there will therefore be no profit until EAs are paid off... at which point the game will have probably saturated the market at the price they'll be asking... so how is Barry benefiting here? You mean by giving himself peace of mind that all the EAs are paid off? I hope he gets that benefit!
Well, let history tell you if you're right or wrong.....he has to build 500 games in order to get EAs their games.....I think that's wishful thinking. I doubt he will even get to a 100 much less 500. But let's keep on keeping on with BS.
Quoted from CoinTaker:After all that's happened with the EAs, I can't imagine there will be many people willing to give DP/Cointaker much of a deposit. (quoted by pinside member)
CoinTaker did not take anyone's money and we are NOT taking deposits on the games until they are ready to ship. Just like the 40 games that did ship, we took the funds and wired the money for the games to be released. We are taking names and that is it. As the games are built (if they are built), we will contact people that we have a game ready for them and they will pay at that time. So please do not tell people to be weary of sending CT money...we have never stolen funds from anyone.
What's going to happen to EAs now? did you wire the entire 12,500 to Barry? Why wasn't there a discussion/plan to make the EAs whole before giving this guy more money?
Quoted from cpr9999:IMHO - Cointaker is the reason additional people have 40 TBLs and EAs have hope of some day getting a game AND just maybe a few more people!!!
BRAVO & thank you Melissa!
Well, there is the rub, the wrong 40 people.......while the guy who wronged people is getting more funds, let's see how many of those TBLs make it into EA's hands.
Anyone care to wager?
Quoted from fosaisu:Cointaker is a distributor and took on a bunch of work to sell those 40 games. What would possibly make you think that they wouldn't get a cut or fee for each game sold? That's not how distribution works.
There is a bigger issue here, I'm talking about reselling a game that was paid for by someone else. It's wrong, anyway you dice it, it's still wrong. The fees the money paid and the details is the transparency part that would have helped with the closure. If it was a deal that wasn't tainted by fraud, then it wouldn't be any of our business. But as it stands right now this is akin to buying stolen goods.
Quoted from iceman44:Simply not true Kvan.
The deal we EA's made was with Barry and Jaap. EA's like myself had an opportunity to get our funds back after what Phil thankfully exposed early on. Some decided to get $$ back, others decided to hang in there.
In no legal sense of any kind or anywhere in any country is this akin to "buying stolen goods".
You may not like it but that language and "fraud" is just not accurate. Being a horrible business person like Barry doesn't make it "fraud". Getting into the lawsuit to begin with and not settling it long ago with ARA doesn't make it "fraud".
Carry on
Okay, Ice, you and I go back to our Predator days, so we've been down this road before, but let's say I was approached to buy the 40 EA games, the pitch would be if we give ARA $500K we can get these released, I would say wait you're telling me these games were already bought and paid for by someone else? The answer would come back as yes, I would then say thanks but no thanks.....
Scenario #2, he would approaches me and says I have a way to get the 40 games released and into the hands of 40 of the EAs....but they have to fork over $4k each....I would say ok, let's call the the people on the list and ask who wants in.....
Scenario #3, he approaches me and says I think I have a way to partially refund the 150 EAs, by auctioning off the 40 games and distribute the money amongst the EAs.....
In no scenario Barry should get money again, he's had multiple opportunities to do what's right but he's blown every one of them. After all, it's only a damn toy, is it worth your reputation....or anyone's reputation?
Quoted from fosaisu:The sale of the 40 games to new buyers was not "tainted by fraud" or "akin to buying stolen goods." As Iceman and others have pointed out, that's just not the way the law works. You can draw subjective moral judgments about people doing business with DP/ARA under the circumstances if you want to, but that doesn't mean any laws were broken.
But even if you were right on the law, if Cointaker was fraudulently helping DP sell stolen goods, would it really make any difference whether they accepted payment for their services or not? They'd still be helping DP break the law, right? Of course that's not what happened here, and it's not shocking that a distributor is getting paid to distribute (though based on Cointaker's comments, not nearly enough to be worth the hassle).
See my other post about normalizing this kind of behavior.
Quoted from fosaisu:These would both have been lovely outcomes. But there was no possibility for either of them to happen, because of DP's large debt to ARA. Those 40 machines were sitting in ARA's warehouse and they weren't going to release them without a court order. And if you believe DP, ARA had effectively won the lawsuit and DP was not getting those games back (if you don't believe DP, you'll have to explain to me why the hell they'd pursue this course of behavior, as it doesn't make any sense otherwise). So the options were bankruptcy, or finding a way to settle with ARA. As I understand it , every penny of the sale money went straight from Cointaker to ARA to cover the settlement agreement that was reached, so Barry did not see any of it. You could argue that bankruptcy would have been more transparent, but it certainly wouldn't have guaranteed any recovery by the EAs. There's a chance now, however slim, that more games could be made, and I have to believe that's worth something.
Ok, the 2nd scenario could be modified so they'd pay whatever the cost per game would comes to, I'm sure it's less than 12,500...then the possibility of the rightful owners getting their games would not be so slim.
As far transparency, how much of the original money is left in DP's account...anyone know? Is the $1.2 mill paid by those EAs all spent?
Quoted from fosaisu:DP's explanation was that the court was about to award legal control of the games to ARA, and DP and ARA then reached a settlement agreement under which the games would be sold through CoinTaker, ARA would get the proceeds, DP would take the remaining parts, and all legal claims would be dropped. So you are correct that ARA never got a final court order awarding them legal control over the games. But it's not like DP could have just walked into ARA's warehouse, picked up the games, and sent them to the next 40 EAs or resold them and spread the proceeds among all of the EAs. ARA was never going to release those games to DP without a court order, and there's no reason to think DP had any more hope of winning such an order from the court. So DP needed ARA's agreement to do anything with the games.
At the same time you make sound like those games being released and sold to different people is a resolution, or a positve outcome. No, not if Barry got something out of this. I don't buy the bit that there are 40 more pinballs in the world as an argument.
Quoted from estrader:Pinside post of the year.
You need to raise your standards....
Quoted from tktlwyr:Just to clarify why Kvan posted this. He's was a friend at one point but has turned into a sour little man that been pissed at me ever since I posted his, at the time, for sale LOTR in the "No Rainbow Puke Club" thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/no-rainbow-puke-club-post-pics-of-worst-color-gi-fails#post-4051332
In short, I thought the LED job on his LOTR looked like a Christmas tree.He'a also jealous because he doesn't have a backglass that has a picture of him on it.
Kvan, if you have an issue with me, be a man and take it private to discuss your problem with me instead of being a keyboard warrior. It just continues to show how shallow you truly are.
Dave man, come on, we're just busting balls bro...don't get serious
Btw, for future reference, as a you said while being a friend and slamming someone's game while it's on sale is not exactly a good form.
PS: Also I like my hair....so no jealousy here 
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:All options aren’t good enough.
There needs to be a clear way that EAs get games.
If it’s 1 of 2, 1 of 3, or 1 of 4 so be it.
Putting all of the EAs at the end of the line is not acceptable. I have new money to buy a game but will not till EAs start getting games too.
Right on! All it takes is one guy doing the right thing...well for now our shaming has put the EAs in the running, even if they have to pay the extra cash vs not even being considered like in the last round.
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Miami, FL