Boerne, TX
Terrible communication. Par for the course.
Why wouldn't you have open source code to allow swapping out the songs?
Has anything been updated since last Expo?
(Topic ID: 115360)
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Quoted from Jvspin:Just like I don't want to go to a restaurant and cook my own dinner, I don't want to spend $9000 on a pinball machine then have to put my own sound in.
For those who have done it, if you put the sound in yourself, how well integrated can it be to the gameplay?
Well I've taken my Acdc and changed out every song except 3 of them.
That's licensed music and the ability to change it to what you want is great.
9k for a pin that has gone backwards from last year and no original music?
The music is part of the huge appeal for the game/theme
Quoted from frolic:What about the call outs? Did the John Goodman issue get answered definitively? What else has been dropped from the game?
I thought the last update stated no Goodman.
Once again, you need to be able to change up, ala TWD Cleland and Millhouse tracks
They gotta change that to allow pinball browser to do its thing
Quoted from sd_tom:Sorry
. If you ask them about open source, the answer will be no. But asking them about whether they are going to make it hard to change the music assets or not is a valid question.
If they want to sell pinball machines they better not make it hard to replace.
I guess they just decided it was easier/cheaper to dump crappy music in there and let the community fix it the right way 
Quoted from Rarehero:You guys don't quite understand. They still have the music licenses. They just can't drop the master track into the game like an MP3 player a la Metallica or ACDC. They can recompose the songs which IMO can only benefit the game as they can be tailored to gameplay with transitions and such. Think WOZ - it doesn't have the master tracks but you hear yellow brick road, over the rainbow etc - but recomposed by Chris Granner.
We get it Greg, but the recomposition of the Santana track SUCKS. Woz needed to be recomposed and nobody bought it because of what Granner did, we bought in spite of the music.
Original tracks make a HUGE difference. To do what they did to Santana is a JOKE and an abortion of music!
It's been another year now, without much getting done it appears.
They have collected all the $$$ from people.
Given Philgate and the $$$ issues he raised with Barry, I think its a fair question to raise, do they have the funds left to actually build all the games?
The communication sucks and while I'd be worried about the music the main thing I'd want to know is WHEN and HOW MUCH is left to finish these games.
We all know a few prototypes can get built. What's left?
Quoted from Rarehero:Mr. Blindfaith Jpopper is now a Lewboski skeptic? GTFO of here....
Who's blind faith now? That's the point. You should know better. I wish I had listened to you back then. But I got my refund last year so after Phil, I became a "skeptic", not just now. Still "hopeful".
But hey, everybody has seen the roadkill, its not like people aren't properly warned now.
I would focus on the $$$ and delivery dates, not rationalizing the lack of communication and music, been there, done that.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Remember those protos have been here stateside . Saves money and they are focused back home . I think the cointaker partnership will be a huge difference .
Chris was working like a maniac on those games.
I don't want to bring up bad karma but Chris was in deep with Jpop.
For his sake, I hope it works out.
I agree with Rommy, if it ever comes out, I'm in. But it's one thing to trot around prototypes that seem to have gone backwards in a year to producing hundreds of pinball machines.
They can't even get the second round of Bop 2.0 out and Pinballlife is doing the assembly.
Phil said Barry was pulling funds from TBL to get Bop done and pay himself.
Wasted time and monthly overhead are killers.
1 month later
2 weeks later
Honestly I don't know how you can still be "confused" at this point. No excuse for that
I know time flies and dates get blurry the older I get but didn't the announcement come at Expo last year. I thought that is when I put $$ down
2 years?
Quoted from sd_tom:If you recall, at expo 2013 they started a mystery count down timer.. It wasn't until the timer ran out on Dec 23rd that you could pre order.
I remember that for sure. Seems like I met some 2014 pre order Expo deadline to opt in before the price went up. Did you guys get it cheaper in 2013?
They stole the show in 2014 at Expo.
Quoted from sd_tom:we got in at $8500. Yes after expo 2014 they were trying to close the pre-order window for all the goodies (rug, chrome). Phil meltdown I think left the window open a bit longer as there was too much turmoil.
Got it. Now I recall, you guys were truly early adopters then.
The fact that the build is being done by outside contracting is a good thing. That would give me hope it will happen quicker.
1 week later
Quoted from sd_tom:A lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous.
Hope you get it. Not sure how they haven't figured out the "ins and outs" by now? Can't be that stupid after last expo a year ago right?
Who knows?
I'm glad I saved my $$ for locally made Spooky.
The communication with these guys is for shit.
Quoted from sd_tom:Think there's room for both titles. I have no interest in any of the Spooky themes so far, so me its not a DP vs. Spooky thing.
I agree, there is room for all titles. I would love the TBL theme and what I've seen so far. By comparison, the Dutch boys have their heads up their arse. Plenty of stupid to go around for the last year.
Yeah, no I'm not "politically correct". But I hope they pull it out for all of us.
4 weeks later
Quoted from ectobar:No. There's a $2000 dickhead tax. So $11995 for you.
In that case I'll take 5 A hole 
2 months later
Quoted from Concretehardt:The only DP order que that is full is the pre order que (achiever editions) I would assume they would like to get orders for a few hundred more machines.
No doubt Concrete. Wouldn't you think a little better communication with the people that are fully paid would help that cause?
I don't get it. Maybe it's a new kind of marketing tactic 
Quoted from Rensh:I think DP is giving a lot more info on what they are doing as others do. Have you ever seen a seminar from Stern showing pinball rules, software developments etc.? Also visited John Trudeau seminar at TPF and GB is a nice pin, enjoyed playing it, but if you think John told anything on software etc you are mistaking. And yes, it was an entertaining seminar
Stern doesn't take fully paid pre orders years in advance. Just sayin 
Hope you guys are unboxing soon. That's all that really matters
Quoted from JimB:Stupid comparison, Stern isn't a startup company.
You can't be serious.
Spooky, Heighway and P3
Excellent ideas Tom, hopefully they are listening. A ton of input on the Spooky thread that the programmer Fawzma listens to and incorporates. Along with everybody else involved.
2 weeks later
1 week later
Dude, the pics and the fanfare and you don't unbox it and play the F out of it! Wtf.
You waited forever. Open it, play it a few hundred times at least and then sell it.
Is it really worth that much more in the box?
I don't know how you could even look it at sitting all boxed up.
1 week later
Quoted from luvthatapex2:It's easy if you can get to the audio files.
My recollection is that they hadn't decided yet if files would be open or not. Hopefully they choose wisely
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:If your communication methods have been sloppy and ineffective, it is time that you improve them. Why? Because effective communication with your customers is vital for the success of your business. For your company to thrive, you must always keep your customers in the loop. If you fail to do so, your customers will eventually stop doing business with you.
Obviously they never got the memo on regarding "proper communication" and giving a shit about your customers.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Meaning - lack of swappable music is a deal breaker.
There is no reason for them to not allow pinball browser to do its thing.
Gotta be able to replace that instrumental crapola. I realize they had no choice and did the best they could with it but its gotta go.
Maybe you have to hit the rug x amount of times before it does its thing?
The Dude doing the callouts sounds pretty weak and depressing? Hard to tell not hearing it in person but combine that with the instrumentals and that seems to be the weakest aspect of TBL right now imho.
Production at one per week right now and #8 getting his next week. At least pins are being delivered. Plenty of time to get code polished up.
1 week later
Quoted from JustLikeMe:To be honest, I'm avoiding going bowling. The one outstanding issue I have with the machine is the bowling alley -
The bowling mech is hugely impressive from a technical standpoint but somewhat of a waste like the lower play field on Ac/dc.
Great job on the videos and it's cool to see in home use play.
The video is awesome to me. Absolutely love it and if the theme was a must have for me then that might seal the deal regardless of the other negative issues.
Every video of game play I've seen looks very "clunky".
And the "instrumentals" versus what it used to be in the original version? It's not loud enough and it sounds terrible to me. Somebody needs to patch the originals in with Pinball Browser. It's awful.
I hope they sell a bunch overseas, I don't see the excitement now or people lining up to drop over $9k here in the US.
I'd like to play it, don't want to own it, but for those that do, congrats on the fact that its finally shipping.
Quoted from Mike_M:Opposite for me. I've played early versions twice in the US and that combined with the videos from the latest code has me actively looking to acquire one.
How much are you willing to pay to acquire one?
Video is great. Negatives to me are the rug shot, bowling play field and the horrendous instrumentals along with the "clunky feel".
I think you gotta really love the theme over everything else to justify this one.
Quoted from ectobar:I feel you have to repeatedly talk shit about the game even though you have also repeatedly said you have no interest in buying it. Just go away.
I was in on day one at Expo. Fully paid. Then thankfully got $$ back after Phil gate.
I haven't "repeatedly" done anything except follow this from day one.
I'm always interested and looking for a reason to own any pin. Don't like my realistic opinion, go F yourself.
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:You're overly negative Ice! Not actually based on facts since you mention call the sound "horrendous"... Well it definitely isn't! And please do explain what you mean with "clunky"... ???
The game feels solid, has good flow, speed and lots of action. Like it's very nice you can build series of multiballs.
Maybe you are confused with an other game...
Ok, maybe I overstate the sound issue as "horrendous". I'm obviously not there playing like you and the guy that made the videos but its disappointing at least from the original song versions, not something I'd like to have to just "put up with". The music was a big part of it for me.
When I say "clunky", I think its evident from the videos, but that is probably true with a lot of pins when you miss shots, TWD is "clunky" that way. On top of it, the shot layout doesn't look great to me. The rug shot and bowling mech, and the upper play field is WPT not great.
I follow this pin because I was a "pre order" and still have an interest in it. Believe me, I've got empathy for people that have waited years for a pin to come, Woz got pages of hate then and still does, and of course waiting for a pin that never came.
Overly negative? Maybe, I'd love to play it now, but I realize its a perfect pin now that's above criticism in most of your eyes!
Come on Dudes, I'm wrong a lot, maybe wrong here, just some observations This is the "Dude club" thread so I'll refrain from negative discussion in the future here.
Quoted from Concretehardt:Ice think of the custom sound packages available for TWD, many possibilitys here
No doubt, that's what I'm hoping for, the "real" awesome tunes, with a sub woofer and rocking out like my Ac/dc.
I hope to "flip flop" again on this one.
Quoted from dannylite:You're right. Not very dude like of me to call iceman a loser. Sorry ice
No problem Dude. I might be the loser if it turns out great and I have to pay more to get it later.
I was Jpopping during that time frame of Phil gate so all kinds of shit was unraveling.
The White Russian drink and lighting is very cool.
Hopefully we can get more discussion and video going. Thx to the guys that have posted vids.
Compared to other new pin threads this one is sparse.
Quoted from flynnibus:No fear is clunky
Sttng can be... Shadow can be
Tbl is not.
The biggest issue with the sound is I think it's kind of average now verse standing out.
The game feels like a 90s wms/bly in play and rules.
How so like 90's wms/bally in play and rules?
I can see build quality looks very solid.
My RS is mostly linear. NBAFB rules are obviously unique and Wh20 is a ton of fun.
8 months later
Leave the F ing politics out of it. Something you def know ZERO about anyhow.
Focus on trying to hold these F ers accountable
How can you deliver 60 games in almost 3 1/2 years and survive? Rice and beans?
Another Jpop in the making here.
They "stopped production in October of 2016". WTF, just now finding that one out.
That blows, typical Jpop BS.
ARA wouldn't hold inventory like that if they were getting paid. DP just keeps lying when they actually speak.
Billy, you need to get over there and get shit straightened out.
Quoted from rubberducks:They didn't. Though it was mid afternoon on a Friday, there were still 2-3 ladies working on assembly when we went on the factory tour in early November. Production definitely hadn't stopped at that stage.
They were finishing off the pins they will sell off if they don't get paid
Quoted from kidchrisso:I got back in with Cointaker after Philgate....I want to get a second one to sell in 5 years...lol
Dang Cheech, you are smoking some good shit
They aren't total DBs like Jpop and Kulek
That's why they haven't pressed to F people over by raising more money with more lies
Any rational person with any sense would have to realize shipping 50 games or whatever it was in 3 1/2 isn't going to feed your family
Maybe somebody comes in and fixes this disaster. I doubt it
Quoted from o-din:On a day where we found out TBL is in trouble and J-pops games may actually be on their way, I think a big fatty is in order.
Isn't that the F ing truth! How did the stars align on that one?
So many horrible pos liars in pinball.
On the flip side, a lot of great people as well
Quoted from MrBally:I knew right then and there that despite the cool toys on the sample machines, there was no way in hell I'd give that arrogant asshole a Dollar/Gilder/Euro of mine.
I'm just F ing thankful Phil did what he did with the refunds on the way out the door. Got my $$ back
What a F ed up Expo that was.
Quoted from Pimp77:Say what you will about JJP, but they are far from a fiasco my friend. JPOP, Predator, Vonnie D, Dutch? Now those are fiascos!
Ok, one liar for another? You are correct, JJP doesn't belong in the class above, not even close.
But they are a "fiasco" in some sense of the word. Been there, done that.
Hopefully, they keep providing a good alternative to Stern.
2+2=4 last time I checked
Contract manufacturing was doomed from the beginning
The common sense math says DP guys have no revenue coming in to pay for anything
How do you survive on so little productivity over 3 1/2 years? See Spooky for how to do it right
Quoted from chadderack:Can you check again?
It's down there somewhere, let me take another look.
Seems simple right? Amazing how the simple math gets lost in all of the BS.
As for Flynnie, what can you say? There is no math to figure that one out.
1 month later
Quoted from Roostking:Obviously people are not afraid to continue to pre order #2, even as game #1 Is having serious delivery issues. I think it's quite ballsy to announce #2 when DP has not communicated with owners what the problem with #1 Is.
HUGE balls. Need a hammock to carry those things
There has been a LONG time gone by now without resolution and ARA sitting on those pins
At what point will ARA auction off those pins to satisfy the debt
DP needs some kind of miracle bailout obviously. That's why they strolled into TPF hat in hand
Even if they could somehow pay the $125k how will the rest of the pins get built?
They appear to be out of parts and $$
This is Jpop 2.0. Some people get pins and everybody else gets F ed
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Why ARA took so long before stopping work is a bigger mystery
Bingo
Quoted from wcbrandes:Scrap the Bops and add the number of Labowskis that it takes to get enough margin to roll the line again. Also if anyone interested, now that there's hope, my spot is available.
Call Kaneda
Quoted from cosmokramer:is that a fat Kevin Kulek?
Well its not a skinny one. Yep, same guy I pointed out a while back.
He's beefed up since he left the USA.
Must be eating a lot of weinerschnitzel.
3 weeks later
3 weeks later
The first rule in investing always is "let your winners run, see Apple stock, and be quick to cut your losses".
Can't see ARA gobbling up this disaster but then again its a total cluster F at this point so anything can happen.
2 weeks later
Quoted from cooked71:I heard Jaap speak at TPF in April, and this latest announcement reads like he spoke. Was a lot of meaningless "motivation speak" that might work if he had something positive to say, but when trying to explain your way out of a shit-fight, just sounds like he's lying and trying to divert attention from the real issues.
It was obvious from early on that Phil knew these guys were a couple of dipshits
They have lied and F ed people over from day one for their own benefit.
I had fully paid after Expo and thankfully Phil sent all the money back that he had control over.
What a cluster F
Quoted from unigroove:what else you can do? there's nothing you can do that will solve the situation, so you might as well do nothing, sit back and wait for DP to work out a solution.
DP is incapable of working out a solution.
-removed-
Thank you Phil, wherever you are
1 week later
Wow
Who would buy "a spot" on the Titanic?
I hope somehow it works out but these guys are some pretty good con men.
The fact they can still hang around and act like nothing is wrong is amazing. Total losers. Go hang out with Jpop and make a game. These guys are disgusting and STILL aren't taking any responsibility for what they have done!
WTF
Quoted from highdef:It's definitely been a hellish ride, but this game is undoubtedly special. No one else is going to step up with a comparable "outside-the-box" theme, so why not support them? They are good for pinball.
Good for pinball working for somebody else and building/designing pins? Maybe so. They are talented.
Not taking in other people's $$$ and trying to run a business.
They can't do it. Don't have the skills.
They are Jpop, good ideas without the ability to get it done. And none of them seem to have any remorse because of their gigantic egos.
Where has all the $$$ gone and why haven't they moved on to get other jobs? The numbers can't possibly add up.
Quoted from Mr68:At least they didn't make an exit plan last September and begin a Hydrofoil company.
They don't know what an "exit plan" means
They will be selling selfie sticks to tourists in Amsterdam soon enough
Gotta squeeze the last drop of cash out first
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I can't go this far. Congrats to Rarehero on getting his money back, but if he received a refund from DP rather than sold his interest to another buyer, then that's BS in my book.
I fear that if we all adopt an "every man for himself - no matter what it takes" attitude, or DP starts to make policy exceptions, then this game and an equitable solution for all investors will definitely be fucked.
Unfortunately that is part of the pinball culture
Who tried to pass it off as a sale to some dumbass versus a refund?
4 months later
How is it even possible that these guys are still surviving?
Are BOP sales enough to keep rice and beans on the table after all these years?
So new sales and profits thereon are going to fund the remaining 300 build?
Math doesn't add up to me but whatever
3 months later
Quoted from Rensh:Got message that no NSN is expected today, rescheduled for next week.
So, bring out the knifes and forks and shoot the messenger.
They can't even complete a simple newsletter. Pathetic. Not you Rensh of course
1 month later
Quoted from highdef:It pains me to also add Heighway's Alien to that long list.
And that one is back in production for now, barely.
If these games get made again it will look like Alien. The "early achievers" will go to the back of the line.
If Cointaker is involved they will get the first "containers" and sell them to NEW customers. So they make $$ and DP does too while the original guys get F ed. Then again, that's sadly the only way it appears for fully paid guys to get games.
It's Barry and Jaap after all, look at their track record of honesty and full disclosure. What's the point of suing a pair that has nothing? Barry was in big trouble financially the day it all started according to Phil. Thank you again Phil.
I wonder what their occupation has been for the past few years? Time to get back on the payroll.
1 month later
Quoted from Rarehero:You and I ask these questions...but we're not even getting the game anymore. I don't get why people with years-ago paid deposits aren't asking these questions.
You got refunded
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Principles are important and more power to those that can afford an attorney to pursue enforcing them. Other realities in this matter aside, for many of us, "lawyering up" (as seems to be the common unsolicited advice) is not a financially viable solution.
Coming from a guy that cashed out and has ZERO to lose. That's priceless. And i mean Rare_______
Quoted from titanpenguin:I really hope many of you are ready to eat crow. While many of you have been trash talking, DP has been learning the art of pinball.
I know you are joking and trying to be funny.
Quoted from RTR:DP has no assets aside from whatever IP they have around TBL and the BOP kit. Hard assets include a few prototypes, some parts maybe, and whatever of our money is still in their bank account.
And FWIW, the whole salary for 4 years thing is bullshit. Like we all sent them to a 4 year pinball college and they didn't graduate. I get pissed every time I hear it.
How is it even possible they have a dime of deposit money left?
Are they still drawing a "salary" of any sort?
They can't possibly still have the license to produce the game right?
Angel investor? Come on. It would take a miracle.
Quoted from highdef:Do I still want this game? Absolutely. However, I rightfully no longer feel confident in the sustainability of this project. This is based on DP's performance so far, including failing to prove the delays aren't tied to financial problems
What has led you to this conclusion?
Quoted from highdef:Don't be a dick Iceman. I do owe you an apology for defending DP in the past, so here is that apology.
Seems obvious right?
No need to apologize.
Thankfully, Phil gate happened and I got out early. Congrats on however you got out.
Barry and Jaap went to ARA in an attempt to save their ass.
Obviously, ARA had no clue what they had gotten themselves into with these dopes.
ARA is a real company. You can't suspend all reality and common sense to think Dumb and Dumber is getting screwed here.
There is ZERO chance I'd believe anything those two say. Sorry Rensh.
Maybe somebody should call Phil.
Quoted from highdef:That's actually a good idea.
Except he knew better and is LONG gone.
Thank you Phil, because of you I received a full refund!
Quoted from Rensh:You are talking of Universal license if it allows ÄRA to sell the built units or not but what about a software license .....
What is a TBL worth without the software to run it? And for sure the software is IP property of DP. This needs to be added to the universal license allows Ära to sell or not.
Don’t know laws there but I would assume they will lose any IP when they go bankrupt
Quoted from Rensh:Which enforces my idea is that ÄRA is starting this to get DP bankrupt and buy the IP for little money from the trustee. Sue them and drag the court case till they are broke policy.
That’s exactly what ARA is doing.
How else would they ever get paid? They are sitting on worthless inventory right now
Quoted from highdef:In summary, put yourself in the shoes of ARA as a business owner. It's like a pawn shop. If you don't come back to pay what they loaned or fronted you (+ interest) by a certain date, they rightfully keep your item. Based on what I've seen here, a few of you would be more than willing to put your business and livelihood on the line for DP.
Maybe a few would be willing? 
JK
Even though people are still hopeful, and that's a good thing, the reality is the problems were always staring us right in the face with Jpop, Kulek, Heighway and DP and we chose to overlook every single warning sign, lie, and lack of communication.
When you want to believe something its easy to justify away all the apparent problems.
Just like Heighway, DP has been done for a long time, its just the final nail in the coffin hasn't been driven in yet. It's coming.
Quoted from spfxted:The more I read this Thread the more I realize... Nobody Knows Shit!
Phil did, early on.
Quoted from EternalLife:Thanks for the letter, it now makes sense on why people are posting the way they are and It also helps the DP court case against ARA.
Totally delusional
Quoted from Mr68:Phil was guessing back then and only seems knowledgeable in hindsight.
He was pretty damn specific in his assessment of the money gameplan and deployment thereof. Including Barry and his budgeting woes.
In hindsight, it was enough to thankfully get my $$ out since he was the custodian of the US funds and wanted to have nothing to do with these guys in the future.
Guessing or not, he knew a WHOLE lot more than the rest of us and that was good enough for me.
I did get to play some Big Lebowski slot machines this weekend
Quoted from flynnibus:All I get from that exchange is... that in June of 2016 (remember.. first units were leaving the factory in APRIL 2016) they were still debating prices of units 1-100. Of which, some had already left the factory.
The rest about what the negotiating of new pricing is... still too vague to know who is agreeing to what really. It doesn't add any clarity at all to what DP had actually paid ARA or not... and what balances ARA was really looking for.
Why would ARA keep building pins for these idiots that can't pay for them?
How hard is that to understand, wtf. Contract manufacturing, as Gomez would say, is a horrendous idea in the first place.
Maybe they are nice guys but truly we are looking at Dumb and Dumber.
And you can throw that dummy Renee in that category too for actually agreeing to a deal with these dopes.
You sound like a good guy Rensh and I wish you well with the "hope" angle.
1 week later
Checking back in and nothing has changed.
It's just a matter of time now. Barry and Jaap are just pissing in the wind and its blowing right back at em.
They just lasted a bit longer than Heighway, SkitB and Jpop. Congratulations.
2 weeks later
3 weeks later
Quoted from kklank:You're defending a "buddy" who took a shit ton of money from a lot of people and now it appears to be all gone.
WHERES THE MONEY??? Where's all the flipping money??!
Quit placing all this blame on ARA. That's crap.
If he's such a great guy and has nothing to hide then have him post his financials on Pinside showing where every penny went. Was Barry taking a 6 figure salary? Do you know?
Show some transparency.
If he's got nothing to hide then let's see it.
I smell a rat that's hoping he won't get sued by a bunch of guys in the states and you're just trying to keep the waters calm by posting its ARA's fault.
The whole stench of this thing started LONG before ARA ever got involved.
Philgate was an ominous sign of things to come. Thank you Phil. It could have been much worse
Yes it took me a long time and a few others to root out Jpop and that disaster
The same result is coming
Can you imagine ARA having to deal with Barry and Jaap! And their lies and misrepresentations
The go fund me effort looks to me like a way to extend keeping them out of bankruptcy. Another win for the lawyers
The games sitting at ARA are gonna get sold by them to cover debts through the bankruptcy process
Just a matter of time
1 month later
Quoted from Rarehero:The attorneys have agreed that they will try to have contact within two or three weeks, so that they have time to discuss various solutions.
We will send an update as soon as we have more news.
All of our very best,
Barry and Jaap
A good way to totally F it all up. Get the lawyers involved.
Quoted from Lamberger:Feel bad for guys that payed up front, anyone want to sell their full paid spot for $500?
$500 less you don't loose, and I roll the dice. Most likely I will loose too, but the thrill of it! priceless.
Maybe Rare has another spot to sell to some sucker?
10 months later
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:Hate to say this because I don't care for the guy, but Kaneda was right?
Excuse me
Iceman was right
He told Kaneda
Along with Alien coming and all you naysayer MF ers will have to eat shit 
Quoted from seenev:So people put in a deposit at a lower price point and are now being told to pay more or they don't get a game?
It's A or B dude. Get it?
Yeah that's right, be thankful you have SOMETHING after all this time.
100% of NOTHING is what?...................NOTHING
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:What is the plan past the current 40-50 games currently being held?
There aren't any more being currently held.
They need to get these future games "produced" after this batch goes out the door via the settlement.
It's pretty simple and common sense.
NOBODY is paying any deposits. If you want a game in the future then somebody is going to make it and you can buy it.
Will it get built? Who knows.
Quoted from flynnibus:It’s not hard dude. 40 games are being sold for 12.5k. Get in if you want to get in.
Presumably this 40 number is more than the number of pre orders cointaker had... so if you were a pre order customer they have games to offer to their buyers and they have their original deposit money still.
This is not “delivering your preorder” - these are games for sale at this price point.
Not that hard to figure out right? 38 games but still.....
Who is the major whiner? Can't see it? LOL
Quoted from Rarehero:They’ll all break and explode. Karma.
Of course......should have known who the culprit was . LOL
Back to where it belongs. Trash can
The guy sold his "spot" and the buyer got F ed so stfu
Quoted from Rockytop:I'd be in on one if manufacturing picks up again. Big if, I know.
It would be really awesome if a proven manufacturer picked this up. CGC, Stern, Spooky, American, JJP...if any of these announced they would be making these games everyone's level of confidence would skyrocket.
Seems like a great potential win/win.
"win/win". Just like this settlement i don't know why its hard for some to figure out what's coming next.
This clears the path for future production by someone. You need to add Pinball Brothers to that list above.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:And to think that this (or $9,500 in your case Hoss) was considered to be SO EXPENSIVE when we invested in TBL being made.
Yeah i thought i was out of my F ing mind paying $6500 for a Woz at the time!
Wtf has happened to all of us Insanity
Quoted from Phat_Jay:I can’t help but feel horrible for the ea’s here. Those machines should have been theirs. I understand why not, but it doesn’t take away the feeling. Sorry guys, truly sucks.
Ditto that
Quoted from flynnibus:CT has done FAR more for buyers than you want to give them credit for now in this narrow view you have.
Not to mention the money they lost on the Jpop fiasco. And its not chump change.
1 month later
Quoted from kvan99:There is a bigger issue here, I'm talking about reselling a game that was paid for by someone else. It's wrong, anyway you dice it, it's still wrong. The fees the money paid and the details is the transparency part that would have helped with the closure. If it was a deal that wasn't tainted by fraud, then it wouldn't be any of our business. But as it stands right now this is akin to buying stolen goods.
Simply not true Kvan.
The deal we EA's made was with Barry and Jaap. EA's like myself had an opportunity to get our funds back after what Phil thankfully exposed early on. Some decided to get $$ back, others decided to hang in there.
In no legal sense of any kind or anywhere in any country is this akin to "buying stolen goods".
You may not like it but that language and "fraud" is just not accurate. Being a horrible business person like Barry doesn't make it "fraud". Getting into the lawsuit to begin with and not settling it long ago with ARA doesn't make it "fraud".
Carry on
Quoted from kvan99:Okay, Ice, you and I go back to our Predator days, so we've been down this road before, but let's say I was approached to buy the 40 EA games, the pitch would be if we give ARA $500K we can get these released, I would say wait you're telling me these games were already bought and paid for by someone else? The answer would come back as yes, I would then say thanks but no thanks.....
Scenario #2, he would approaches me and says I have a way to get the 40 games released and into the hands of 40 of the EAs....but they have to fork over $4k each....I would say ok, let's call the the people on the list and ask who wants in.....
Scenario #3, he approaches me and says I think I have a way to partially refund the 150 EAs, by auctioning off the 40 games and distribute the money amongst the EAs.....
In no scenario Barry should get money again, he's had multiple opportunities to do what's right but he's blown every one of them. After all, it's only a damn toy, is it worth your reputation....or anyone's reputation?
Yes we do go WAY back Kvan. Wild West days
Here’s the thing. Those games were getting sold one way or another to satisfy the debt owed to ARA
That was going to be the case from day one.
Litigation just delayed the process due to very poor decision making by Barry and Jaap. They were going to lose anyhow. Not working a solution long ago was stupid, but hey, it is what it is
Coin taker is trying to get more games made in the future to satisfy EAs
Now don’t tell me it’s not a good thing because I got made WHOLE as a Jpop victim by Deeproot. It might take some time but it could happen
Finally, I take some responsibility for my own poor decisions like on Predator and Jpop.
Sometimes shit just doesn’t work out and you gotta move on
People want to sue Barry? Good luck with that. He has nothing to get
Patience, let’s see how it plays out
People need to relax
Coin taker has spent a shit load of time and $$ on the original TBL fiasco along with getting their ass kicked by the Jpop thing
The last folks that deserve criticism is Cointaker
Come on. That’s a bunch of BS
If you like pinball all they do is help promote it
As for TBL, let it go FFS.
What happens will happen
2 weeks later
Has anyone checked Ebay lately? Kman
I'm on the side of anybody doing whatever they want with their own games they paid for.
Do we cry for people that lose $$ every day on selling Nib purchases after the fact?
And before you chastise the "stupidity" of Nib buyers, if it weren't for us, there would be no new pinball. Your welcome
Quoted from ToucanF16:Agree. Elvira certainly took an unprecedented leap in price.
Not really, same pricing basically as BM66
1 week later
Quoted from mbwalker:Pinhead,
So what's the story on this one? One of the batch of 40? It's not a new build is it?
New build
1 year later
Quoted from Junkhauler:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Lubbock Texas!!!
My kids go to school there. If I didn’t already have a TBL I would buy you some beers to play. Hell i would do it anyhow
Is the pinball bar back open again?
Quoted from Junkhauler:Yup.... Lubbock, born and raised.
Your welcome to check it out sometime....
I looked at your collection.... thats a lot of Pins!!!
Flippers is rolling again....
Great to hear about Flippers! I’ll be up there first weekend in October, will head back over there and check it out
8 months later
Quoted from Rensh:For your both, see page 158 of the service faq at https://www.dutchpinball.com/the_big_lebowski_pinball_support.php
Just turn the bass a little down and I suspect you both will be fine.
Hey Rensh, I’ve got an older game. Are they selling the starry apron upgrade?
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