Email from Barry earlier today suggests NSN being written now, for release tomorrow, with some welcome news. That's all I know and am hoping for the news we all want to hear - and I don't mean crickets
(Topic ID: 115360)
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The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016
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1 week later
OK - now, how do we figure out if you can modify the sound track to meet one's personal preferences (sic)??????
Around the time they pulled the original music I am pretty sure they said they were custom arranged for DP. The $64k question is whether this music can be replaced with "versions of an owner's choice?" I am hoping this will be the case. Does anyone have any insights on this?
1 week later
Quoted from Nilroc:#148 TBL
Maybe see it for Christmas. If I go the Air Freight option.
Don't say that --- #147
I was down at my local Starbucks and overheard that Gary Stern was over in Holland to consult on DP production issues - and that is why Stern production has been shut down
"Yesterday we tested and boxed game #9." - congrats to Genex. Looking forward to that first container being enroute!
egads - that makes me container 8. (#147).
Congratulations!!!!! - I hope it is being played by now.
Can someone please wake me up when we get to the low 100's. The rate of mfg and resulting wait is torture #147
1 month later
Dannylite - Sorry to see you depart. as previously indicated, I'll be delighted to take one of your spots!!!
Quoted from dannylite:#31 OVER THE LINE! My inner dude was tingling this morning so I emailed Barry to see if I would make the 1st container and sure as sh*t five minutes later the NSN arrived. Wonder why the shorty container for the first shipment?
Wish they would have used the 40 pin one. Spilt cream at this point.
The good news is my machines are built and waiting to be tested so I'm still super excited.
Anyway, I am truly really so very unbelievably HAPPY for all of the dudes that made it in the 1st container
P.S. due to the horrific nature of this devastatingly sharp cutoff I have started a gofundme to pay for the cost of air freight. JK but seriously if you wanna send me some money or other gifts of consolation I'll take it. PayPal.me/danek
P.P.S. No dirty undies.
Dannylite - It is abundantly clear that this whole situation has become emotionally overwhelming for you. I strongly suggest the best course of action is to trade places with me so you will have the added time needed to seek the required help before your TBL's arrive. HJBondar
Quoted from Mr68:Those are nihilist's in chase boat.
- But I'm worried. Is sailing allowed on Shabbos?
sailing yes; motoring - No!
1 week later
6 months later
Perhaps a stupid question and an even stupider thought but, who is in control of the remaining parts? At this point I'd be more than happy to take my game shipped as a kit!!!!!!
3 weeks later
This is unbelievable - It basically says to TBL pre-order customers - too bad - we are moving on in the meantime - Wow- Who runs a business this way. Who, in their right mind would put a deposit down for anything they do until they get this right - i don't care who did what to whom?
See the following message from DP:
Today, Jaap will give a presentation at the Texas Pinball Festival about the status of The Big Lebowski™ Pinball and the future plans of Dutch Pinball. As you know, our Contract Manufacturer ARA stopped the production of TBL because of a dispute. We will recap what happened:
April 2015
ARA and DP signed a contract that says that DP will buy 300 TBLs from ARA, delivered between April and October 2015.
May 2015
ARA informs DP that the agreed price is too low because the cost price is higher than estimated. DP agrees with the new price.
April 2016
First shipment of TBL.
June 2016
ARA informs DP that the agreed price is too low because the cost price is higher than estimated (again). This time, ARA demands over €1.000 extra per TBL. After several negotiations, DP agrees with this new price, but only under the condition that ARA seriously speeds up production and delivers 300 TBL plus 50 units of our second title: Bride of Pinbot 25th anniversary, before December 31, 2016.
October 2016
DP finds out that ARA has not ordered a single part for the 50 BoP25s. When DP confronts ARA with this, ARA insists on the higher price. DP refuses to pay this price since the condition will not be realized. ARA announces production stop of TBL.
Nov 2016 – Feb 2017
Several negotiations between ARA and DP but no solution.
March 2017
Radio silence between ARA and DP.
The production of TBL has stopped. ARA has about 40 games ready to ship. ARA still has a lot of parts in the factory to build the 300 TBLs including P3ROCs that are paid by DP (over $100.000). DP paid ARA a lot of money for engineering, prototypes and engineering samples.
We now are in the situation that our attorney talks to their attorney and this will probably take months/years. The production of TBL has stopped until the attorneys come up with a solution that both parties agree on.
We have several options:
1 – Start a legal procedure and wait.
2 – Give up.
3 – Find an alternative Contract Manufacturer to produce TBL and/or BoP25.
First of all: we won’t give up! We will not let anyone take away our dream: bring fun to the (pinball)world!
... and we want it Dude. That’s why we won’t be sitting on our hands, waiting for the attorney to do his job. We want to move on and live our dream: bring fun to the (pinball)world. That’s why we talked to several potential Contract Manufacturers and it looks like we will do business with the VDL Group. A very big Dutch company that produces a.o. BMW cars in The Netherlands. They are very interested in starting the project but they suggest to start on a smaller scale. We have planned to build a series of max.150 units of The Bride of Pinbot 25th Anniversary Super Limited Edition, 100 for the USA and 50 for the rest of the World. If all goes well, we will start building a regular version of BoP25, to be build by VDL. If in the meantime, we come to an agreement with ARA, we can start building TBL as soon as possible, time will tell.
Today we started selling BoP25 in the US and Canada via Cointaker and Nitro Amusements. The price will be $12,500 and they will not take pre-orders. If you are interested, you can reserve your spot for $250 and you will receive a translite. The rest of the payment will be right before the game ships. Please understand that DP has no down payments from Cointaker nor Nitro Amusements and we will keep it like that.
We have acquired the license from PPS and we are finalizing the artwork of the cabinet, we already have approval for the artwork of the translite and the playfield. This is how they look like:
Dzoomer - I see 3 options and think #2 is the most practical:
1. As mentioned previously in this thread, the ARA and DP lawyers find the mid-point that is not perfect for either but respects the investments of us as customers. I hate to say this but, having done business in Holland, flexibility is not a top three attribute
2. As buyers, we offer to pay the extra $1000, in an escrow count, payable upon delivery. At this point I am more than willing to do this rather than lose my entire payment. I thin this is the most practical option
3. Universal is brought into the equation by us making this a PR issue for them in such a way that they are motivated to make help resolve this. I would hope that we have someone with PR and/or social networking experience that could help to escalate this.
1 week later
Quoted from alexanr1:ebay.com link » The Big Lebowski Pinball Machine New 32 Impossibly Rare
$100k by Christmas!
3 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I don't have any money in this but DP is finished. If you have anyway to get out and get your money back press the button now Even if ARA rights itself the rest of the machines will be the last as you couldn't trust ARA again and the cost to re-tool at another vendor isn't going to be cheap and its clear DP have liquidity restrictions.
» YouTube video
.. and your not invited to my box opening party!
3 weeks later
DP is not reading Pinside if they think Group 1 is only 2-3 Achievers. They are also wrong to think that those that want their game ASAP want to see them fail. There is an old adage, "better a slice of a watermelon than all of a pea" which may or may not apply here. Admittedly, I am not in the ARA discussions, nor have I seen the contract(s). But I do believe, as a buyer, I have every reason to look at DP as having not operated in my best interest.
I fear that DP may not have many, if any, real alternatives in which case history could easily look back and point at the decision to not take this deal as the final nail in the DP coffin. I hope not, but see my game and money fading into a dark abyss.
Vey upsetting and very sad.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from EternalLife:Were we on the same stream?? They are going forward with a new CM to deliver TBL's. The second title has been put on hold to focus on finishing the first run of TBL. They are waiting on quotes, which will take a few weeks. DP has all documentation and plans for building TBL which we own, not ARA as Barry and Jaap wrote all the assembly instructions.
Some of the pre order money was spent to get us this far in IT, development, materials - refunds can't happen for everyone so no one can be refunded.
ARA has a lot invested in materials/finished games which they can never sell. ARA breached the original contract with DP by not delivering finished games on time or on budget. Suing ARA also may happen down the road. Suing is a long process, if we sue we would have to wait longer for a refund/game.
EternalLife - Your summary was an accurate reflection of the livestream i watched - well done. DP seems sincere in its approach - i can only hope they are successful. I was relieved, and surprised, that ARA pre-funded as much as they did. This would seem to put them in a position of less leverage. ai would hope they are smart enough to sell the games and parts they have to DP and their new CM as it has little value holding on to it.
I am sure DP is aware of this point and perhaps it will accelerate the new CM. Working with ARA at this point seems to be a train that has left the station!
As #147 I am not happy with the whole situation, at least DP seems to be taking reasonable actions to make this game happen. Good luck DP and all EA's!!!
2 weeks later
And on another note I finally had a chance to play TBL in San Francisco. I am, admittedly, a biased TBL movie aficionado. Nonetheless, I have to say this game did not disappoint. It flowed nicely; the video and call-outs were well done; the ramps were not easy to make!
I did notice that the bowling alley window seemed to be discolored. Does anyone with the game in hand have the same issue? GeneX - as this is your baby - any thoughts on this observation? Thanks for making it available to us less fortunate achievers
8 months later
I doubt Xytech would be going to all the work and expense to build 4 engineering samples from scratch without a thought through business plan in mind. As an EA I’m not pleased with the TBL saga but think thinks are in a much better place than a year ago. Maybe I’m Jim Carrey in “Dumb and dumber” but at least their telling us “...there’s a chance”!
2 weeks later
3 weeks later
Wow. Rensh, you have been DP’s champion all along. Does this post signal exasperation - even for you? I hope not as you have been my only hope and advocate for ever Getting my machine.
On a related note of hopefully not false hope, I am wishing that DP is waiting until they can announce the first container of Chinese exports and that is the only reason for their silence. The occasional positive signals from Cointaker are the only substance for this hope.
Let’s all keep our flippers crossed on this one as there is nothing else we can do.
Quoted from PinBalt:I had a dream that I woke up on Friday and saw a new positive DP post .... "DP is proud to finally announce that the production of The Big Lebowski with our partners in Xytech Module Technologies has officially begun. How many days are left before production begins ... "Mark it zero". We are excited to share with you the photos of the initial TBL cabinets, sub-assemblies that are in process, and testing of initial machines by the Chinese Xytech production staff. We cannot state exactly when "everyone" will get their exact machine however we want to share with you our plan to both provide Early Achievers and newer customers with TBL machines. The delivery of the first 30 pinball machines will consist of a ratio of 10 machines for Achievers and 20 for new buyers. The next delivery of 50 machines will be split at a ratio of 1
and this will continue until all of the remaining Early Achievers have received their machine. We understand that the split between preorders and new buyers might create some consternation and are rewarding preorderers with a set of custom miniature Brunswick bowling balls to mod your TBL, and a set of spare TBL plastics, and custom coindoor key chain FOBs. Additionally, all new TBLs will be shipping with code update 1.0 which will include the exciting new wizard mode (Viva Las Vegas!!!) and additional updates and tweaks to the software code. This code update will also be provided to existing TBL owners when the first new games began shipping in 2 weeks from today. This has been an incredible and sometime difficult journey and the entire team wants to extend Thanks everyone involved and who ordered this game".... I can only hope that reality is somewhat close to that ... but my hope is razor thin ;-/
Please don't wake me up
Old proverb- “you can’t get blood from a stone” applies here in my judgement. After the ARA debacle I considered my money lost. I was not happy about the situation but felt this scenario was in my emotional best interest
Fast forward to “Chapter: Xytech” and I will consider this a “bluebird” if it happens.
Do I endorse the DP business and communication practices? Absolutely not.
Do I think the money is gone and that the Xytech path is the only likely solution? Yes!
Do I think litigation or involving Universal will solve anything? No! In fact, it may only impede the slim chance we have of ever getting our machines.
Do I hope DP is holding back because they want their next announcement to include a full cargo container photo? Circle back to Pinbaits dream narrative
I’m not familiar with the details on those. Did they have a contract manufacturer come aboard at the stage Xytech did AND make the investment to redo boards and make engineering samples?
You’re preaching to the wrong person. Go back and read my post. I very clearly did not endorse DP’s business or communication practices. I simply have taken a different path than you Re: my personal narrative.
If you take Universal to small claims court and prevail I will be simultaneously surprised and following in your footsteps. The downside risk is no cash from Universal and Propelling Universal towards an adversarial posture with DP that can get in the way of the slimmer by the day chances we have.
With this new information i think now would be a good time to collectivize and pursue damages with Universal - any thoughts?
Quoted from steigerpijp:Speculation, but all Ara wants out of this at this point is to break even.
Like Bally Williams was liquidated forcefully and split up end if 90’s , Ara just wants to sell off the units in stock when DP are bust, and this is the moment to do it, when fully comitted to a new party financially.
The board at ara would have done this anyhow with their 51 percent share. Sell the units, close the division, break even..
DP tried, in vain.? Who knows, time will tell, but the money is now not going into games but lawyers pockets.. what a waste;(
Sad day , for all involved
Steigerpijp - I think you nailed it. The money now goes to the lawyers. Very sad end to a dream machine!
All of this is interesting and painful speculation being that I am fully paid and out my investment. While I took issue with Highdef prior to this announcement, I think a collective demand letter to Universal, and possibly, ARA are a reasonable next step.
I am not an attorney and would like to invite the input of someone who has a stake in this and is qualified to comment. I would be willing to be the wingman to a licensed attorney willing to donate his/her time to help organize this.
Any thoughts on this approach?????
I still think a concentrated assault on Universal might have some positive outcomes. I doubt they’d want this in The NY Times or WSJ as an example of poor licensing practices (screening and control).
When I paid for TBL the fact that they licensed it was a form of endorsement and security for me! DP/TBL is an extension of their brand promise! Like Disney, protecting their brand is of Paramount importance. Being a part of a scam is not in their best interest.
3 weeks later
1 year later
Yet another “F&@$ you” to EA’s. Buy at the higher price after 5 years!! Really. Implying that if you don’t your original game will be available at some time in the never to come future. How insulting.
How about, if you buy a second game we will ship your original at the same time. This way I can sell it and be whole!
Pinball slave - I have a hard time understanding your position. I am curious if you are an EA? I ask because I think most EA’s, such as myself, do not feel this “offer” which implies being shoved to the back of the line for the original game, does not acknowledge their investment and patience.
I expressed my feelings to Barry on this as I imagine others have. Perhaps, as I suggested to Barry, if the offer was order at 12.5 and receive both games - then both parties could get whole!
Luvthatapex2- your plan works too. I agree that he owes EA’s a concrete and reasonable plan. You have to wonder who he bounces his ideas off??!
4 months later
Quoted from Nilroc:My Check was requested 5 years ago and I've received no indication I'll receive mine anytime soon.
Nilroc- I think your one EA behind me. I share your pain!!
1 year later
1 week later
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Hi Rensh,
Any way you can wrangle up a list of EA games and which have shipped? It would be super appreciated if it could be maintained online.
I second that. It’s been over 5 years now. When you newbies complain about having to wait an extra 6-8 weeks- thinks about that!
1 week later
Quoted from edmorex:Fellow Early Achievers, Just wanted to let y'all know #61 just arrived safe and sound in Austin, TX.
The drop tag was ripped off the box and the pallet looked like it lost a battle to a fork lift but the pin survived. I only needed to do some minor adjustments to roll overs and tighten up a few spots.
Looked it up, my first payment was on 2014-07-01 and my final in full payment was 2015-03-03. Hang in there dudes.
[quoted image]
Major congrats. #147 right around the bend
1 week later
Quoted from Jack8765:So...the ship stuck in the Suez Canal was headed from China to the Netherlands. What are the chances there were Dutch pinball part on board?
That would fit the Karma profile to date
2 years later
At one time there was discussion about a way to replace the music with the original tunes. Has anyone done that and, if so, how?
1 month later
Quoted from genex:Congrats - can't believe it's finally there! When are you having folks over to play?
Gene -you’re always welcome. I’ll talk to Jake about setting up a time. We also want to come play your Pulp Fiction when you get it!
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