(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

By Nilroc

4 years ago

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  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by phil-lee
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Topic index (key posts)

24 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (2 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (1 year ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (1 year ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (1 year ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (1 year ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)

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#370 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Wow when did you order?


1 month later
#463 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

BoP was my first ever pin, and I was kind of against the idea of changing it because I'm kind of attached to the gameplay as it is... both for nostalgic reasons and also I just think it's a cool game... but after seeing that video... I feel strange... my emotions are changing, I'm starting to think I want it... what's happening!!?? That looks f**ing awesome!!!!!

As I understand it you can easily boot into BOP 1.0 mode and still play the original, so you're not sacrificing anything by adding this mod (other than the $2,000 purchase price, of course).

1 month later
#497 3 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

How does the rug interact with the game?

Mostly friction.

#506 3 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

I heard that 2 new TBL's will be there, Production models, not prototypes.

That would be excellent!

#513 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Yeah not that the plaque is really at all important, but it is actually nice looking. Most others phone that part in. Just need to get it in my house now.. Starting to think about the fact that I'm going to be out of the country for a week in late October and its possible that could turn into a problem for receiving my game (Murphy's law factor). Oh well, would work it out.. Just hoping getting iy by Thanksgiving holiday week at the latest.

It would be super impressive if these are actually arriving States-side by the end of October given that they aren't even on the line yet in Holland! That said, I hope they start cranking them out ASAP, can't wait to see one in action.

3 weeks later
#613 3 years ago
Quoted from karl:

What! None of the original songs. Only covers? Or did I misunderstand that last one??? (I surely hope so)

This definitely sucks (and makes you wonder how Rodger feels about that graphic of his face with the checkmarks). I wonder if they could at least program in some kind of pinbrowser functionality so users could readily replace music with selections of their own choosing.

#620 3 years ago

If no original music is for real that's also a major switcheroo -- hope they'll provide another chance for pre-order folks to bail if they don't like the sound of the CCR and Dylan covers.

Maybe they should just license that weird chanting/grunting music that's playing during Maude's aerial painting scene and have that play throughout ... That track should be affordable at least!

#622 3 years ago
Quoted from accidental:

I understand why this restriction is in place. The songs were licensed to the film and the film is being licensed to the pinball, not the songs that feature in it. To be able to use the individual songs would mean separate agreements with all the artists of the songs featured in the film. An impossible task IMO.

I don't really get this restriction. I would have thought that if you're making a game based on a movie and you want to use music that appeared in the movie (other than a theme song or other original compositions that are presumably owned by the same people that own the rights to the movie) you'd have to reach a separate deal with the rights-holders for the music. I also thought DP said early on that they had all the music licensing worked out. Will be interesting to see if more detail is forthcoming on this change.

#721 3 years ago
Quoted from JimB:

Making a pinball machine is hard, any questions now?

Since you ask, I've still got a question ... how the hell was DP confused about the music licensing this late in the game? Or if DP knew about it before this weekend, how can they justify resting on their previous incorrect statements about the music licensing (including that at-best misleading picture of Rodger Sharpe) until now? Given their past "troubles" with licensing, why weren't they on top of this?

The game looks sweet, the latest updates are cool, and I can't wait to play one. And you're right, making pinball is hard. Pinball licensing is evidently hard too. But if you're doing it right, you shouldn't repeatedly leave your customers wondering whether you're being honest with them.

2 weeks later
#777 3 years ago

They can always add songs later in code updates. The quality of the songs doesn't matter so much but they have to be there in the first place to be replaced by the owners later!

It'd also be sweet if you can tell which soundtrack song each of the instrumental replacements is meant to "represent" to make the swapping easier, and have it still feel like the game was coded with those original tunes in mind.

1 week later
#807 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Why don't we just call this game what it is.......Magic Girl 2.

Robin returned the thumbs-down feature just in time!

1 week later
#821 3 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Enjoy...I'm Out!

Are you selling your spot? May not still be the case but in recent months there have been a number of people eager to get in on the closed pre-order, so it might be worth asking around.

#877 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Yep. Earlier they talked about filling about 40 per container and shipping them over for distribution. They're using a contract manufacturer in the Netherlands (where all the pics are coming from presumably). It will be interesting to see how fast these things come off the line when going.. Would hope fast as these are professional manufacturers on contract so they want to get them out as fast as possible (likely fixed cost per unit given to them from dutch pinball )... So time is money lost out of the CMs pocket (speculation, but usually how things work). Also puts incentive that they force DP to have all their ducks in a line before getting started with inventories as the CM won't want to stop in the middle with people standing around doing nothing if there's a shortage.

You'd hope so, but CGC using Stern as the contract manufacturer for MMR hasn't caused them to move particularly quickly.

#894 3 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

But if they refund through papal the fee is refunded too.

Maybe there's a time limit on that? Not sure I've never tried refunding a super-old PayPal payment.

1 week later
#921 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Part of me wonders if this business about the scenes and the music is a miscommunication - the Dutch guys have been confused by the nature of U.S. licensing lingo before - perhaps they're confused about what the licensor is/isn't allowing about is just playing it safe. I'm just thinking about other games that use video clips or audio from movies...Spidey, TF, Iron Man, BDK, WOZ, Hobbit - they always scrub the existing BG music out - but they're allowed to use clips & voices.

Hopefully they'll look into this, would be a shame to strip out those bowling alley scenes (among many others) unnecessarily.

I also wonder if the video clips could be made user-replaceable like the sounds. Could allow for custom work-arounds if they really aren't able to do much with clips from the film in the official release.

#941 3 years ago
Quoted from embryonjohn:

Couldn't wait, so I had to get my dude on for Halloween

You took the Pomeranian bowling?!?

2 months later
#1070 3 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Whats the rumor about the Lawlor pin?

Seriously, don't leave us in suspense here!

3 months later
#1652 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Far out !! I spy :
- 12 cabinets on their feet (including what might be a finished game in the back)
- 5 in boxes
- 5 cabinets on their backs
Which is roughly a full container worth. Definitely helps to solidify my decision to go via boat.. wont be too long now I hope!

All well and good, but where's the bank of microwaves? Can't be a real pinball maker without one.

1 month later
#1877 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Jeff Bridges says he's all in for starring in a "Big Lebowski" sequel: "It's a great idea"

I love his concept of a "Little Lebowski" sequel. The kid would be 18 this year, perfect timing for a road trip with dad. Somehow I cannot see the Cohen Bros. signing off on it, but who knows?

#1879 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

While I love the idea of another Lebowski movie some things are just better left untouched and this is probably one of them.

Agree 100%. I don't think a sequel should (or will) happen. But I do think that's a hilarious response for Jeff Bridges to give to that question!

#1924 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

David Huddleston died today (the goldbricker Lebowski)

Sorry to hear that.

On a lighter note, I heard Dom Irrera today on the local comedy station doing a bit about his role as Tony the limo driver in Big Lebowski -- "I got a rash so bad on my ass, I can't even sit down. But you know me. I can't complain". Anyway, he says that entire bit was pulled from his standup act (him talking about his Italian uncles), which the Cohen brothers had evidently heard and enjoyed enough that they wrote it right into the script and then offered him the part. Funny stuff!

4 weeks later
#2136 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Don't! I just stuffed myself at my favorite Vietnamese restaurant. Gonna take a nap now.

TVP for the win!

#2138 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Gotta consume like the Dude man!

Do we ever actually see the Dude eating at In-and-Out? Maybe they were just picking up a sack of burgers for Walter. I kind of imagine the Dude being veggie/vegan.

Booze on the other hand ...

#2173 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

JJP's top game is too expensive too!
Look, I'm not being down on Dutch Pinball, or the game. I'm just saying, if you want one you might want to get it soon, I can't see these being made for years. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, who cares. But if I'm right and you were sitting on the sidelines ... that's all I'm getting at.
Remember, WOZ, which managed to get JJP in the door, was what? $6500 if you pre-ordered? I don't know what would have happened if they came out the game with WOZ at $10k.

Well to be fair Lebowski was $8500 preordered, right (a bit more if you count shipping, but I'm assuming the $6500 WOZ preorder wasn't shipped)?

I'm not saying $8.5k (or $10k) for a single game makes sense to most people, but then again a few years ago would you have predicted the level of sales in the Premium/LE class at ~$7k? It's all insane money to anyone outside the pinball world, and to many inside it for that matter! That said the flow of beautiful new games is awesome, so I hope people keep buying them all for a long long time.

2 weeks later
#2346 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Interactive lighting for Folgers can topper. 100% electronic, wave of the future

I still jerk off manually

4 months later
#3275 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Thanks. That's the problem though, I'm not currently on the owners list. So just trying to figure out how I can get the latest code.

Have you emailed that address and asked to be added to the owners list? They could presumably also send you whatever version of the software you want.

#3331 2 years ago

Why do people keep referring to a "white lie" here? If your girlfriend asks you if she looks fat in her college jeans and you say "no" to make her feel good, that's a white lie. This seems ... different.

#3398 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Dude, I'm just merely pointing out you can't spell licensed correctly.

Epic burn on Rarehero.

#3401 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Epic burn on Rarehero.

For the record, Rarehero, I did not actually think that eggbert52's veiled reference to your typo was an epic burn. My sarcasm appears to have slipped by the goalie.

2 weeks later
#3608 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Yes, but my defense of being called a paraquate was second to none!

Don't leave us hanging ... did you order Aurich's glowing joint mod?

1 week later
#3693 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Talk about feeling fucked in the [censored]...

Your censorship policy seems inCONsistent.

#3824 2 years ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

Did anyone else get this email blast? Got it about 30 minutes ago...

Yep - Rensh posted it above.

#3878 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I don't know man. I'm still soluting every morning I wake up.
I suppose if I was ever to break down and marry an ugly woman, I can see the purpose of these little blue pills. But that isn't my plan.

Psst ... I think your line was "Yeah well, I still jerk off manually"

#4030 2 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Oh, wait, this is Denmark, not the US. What have the Danish attorneys suggested?

Quoted from Nilroc:

Why has Denmark been brought into this?

Shh, I'm with Sadsack, let's hear from the Danish lawyers!

#4204 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Oh you haven't, however no sense in arguing you would be surprised what people sign when they have to or shall we say want to

So what you're saying is, you'll make DP an offer they can't refuse?

#4207 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Think about that statement.....has anyone ever known a lawyer to advise against litigating and telling someone to wait? Sounds more like a stall tactic. I am betting if you dig into this really deep, you will find DP is not the victim they play.

You've obviously never met a Danish lawyer.

#4215 2 years ago
#4280 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

For those of you saying the profits from BOP 3.0 aren't enough to get the rest of the TBL made, what makes you think so? 25 BOP, $12,500 per machine = $312,500.
250 remaining TBL with $1,000 increase = $250,000. Cointaker and DP split the remaining $62,500 and call it a day. Totally feasible.

The infeasible part is selling that many $12.5k BOP3s.

#4411 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

My apologies to those I have raged on in these heated and emotional times...and if all goes well, I will repeatedly and humbly apologize to DP. Sometimes it's really tough to balance hobbyist friendships when there are customer/seller relationships involved.

You were justified in reacting as you did to the way DP handled this mess. However things play out, DP lied to their customers and they can no longer expect the benefit of the doubt, especially when they're not putting forth a clear plan to resolve the underlying problem. DP deserved both barrels and you gave it to them.

That said, I also hope this is a turning point in the DP/ARA relationship, and that the line starts rolling again soon!

3 weeks later
#4603 2 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

There is a band up here in the Northwest actually called The Fuc$ing Eagles and they headlined the Big Lebowskifest here a few years ago.

Apparently the Eagles didn't take kindly to that scene. Further evidence that they suck.


#4608 2 years ago
Quoted from Berserk:

I hated the eagles before... after reading that, I REALLY hate them

Yeah, and that quote from Jeff Bridges is fantastic: "but you know, my anus tightened a bit." He truly is the Dude.

2 weeks later
#4750 2 years ago
Quoted from Bearcat:

Fuck it, I'm sending a toe to Nivoge. Anyone know where to get a toe?

You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon ... with nail polish.

1 week later
#4831 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's 2017, the train is off the tracks.

Agree with everything else you're saying, but your train derailment metaphor in a Big Lebowski thread will not stand. Goddamn planes and mountains, on the other hand ...

#4879 1 year ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

I think you mean, other than you.

Another epic eggbert burn!

Shifting gears, eggbert, shortly after you were going off about the Dutch royalty in this thread I read this:

If you have to have a king, this guy seems alright.

#4929 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

What's the number of your game?
.... Yeah, that's what I thought.

His comments on DP's communications practices are merely a diversion from his main interest in this thread, which is complaining about the Dutch royalty (and monarchies in general). Sic semper tyrannis!

#4960 1 year ago

The Dude looks much more inviting than the MOTE(L) down the block. I'll bet they do good business.

2 weeks later
#5337 1 year ago
Quoted from kapper:

I keep hearing that a lawsuit is expensive - yes true, but (at least in the USA), the winning party of a lawsuit can claim the expenses of said lawsuit as damages

False. Except in special cases the US generally takes a "Dutch date" approach to litigation costs.

It's certainly possible the Netherlands has a "loser pays" rule though, many countries do. But unless its a total slam dunk DP would probably still need to front the money to its lawyers and would get its legal costs back only at the end of litigation. If they've blown all their cash already, that could be tough to pull off.

#5355 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

Ever hear of the Seattle Seven?

That was me ... and six other guys.

#5364 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Had any existing TBL changed hands since delivery to the original owner? Does anyone believe that these games listed at 18k-25k are actual market value? At what point does the market correct itself? At the conclusion of the ARA drama? Either there are never going to be any other games built or there will be another 250+\- built and in the market - then what is the price? Best case all buyers get their games for 8500-10k NIB and then what? Prices instantly double? I just don't get the logic of the buyers looking to double their money but the fact that no one is biting proves my point I guess. That said - anyone with a game in hand that wants to sell for for 10k please PM me.

What's not to get? It's very much up in the air whether more TBLs get made. If they don't, then this is a super-limited edition game (with a still-beloved theme). BBB sells for $15k-$20k and there are far more of those than of TBL at the moment, so it's not exactly surprising that TBL owners would be asking in that price range ("double their money" doesn't enter into it, they're asking what they think the market will bear). Of course if the best-case scenario comes to pass and another 250 (or more) are made, prices on used TBL should come down significantly. But that's still a big if.

That said, if you can find a TBL for $10k I'll be the first to congratulate you.

#5423 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Two in Seattle just sold within the last week.
25k nib
20k new out of box (pending)
Kind of crazy for a game without a manual

Shh, Dkjimbo's trying to scoop one up for $11k and you're killing his game.

#5489 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I think step #1 of the business plan ought to be refund EA's and current buyers 100%. Get them out of the preorder model and go forward with a fresh slate.

That would be ideal, but per some of the comments above it sounds like DP has stated they do not have the money to refund everyone 100%. And it's hard to imagine a lender would be keen on giving them money to pay off preexisting debts, vs. build and ship machines (which would get them to profitability faster, even if the first 150 games go to cover fully-paid preorders).

#5492 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I don't know, this sounds eerily familiar to Heighway's attracting investors. New people injecting new capital - and if the plan is based on borrowing enough to refund existing buyers their money, buy parts, setup factory for manufacturing and early production costs, they will have a lot more people and potential customers pulling for them.

Maybe I missed it but did Heighway's new investors promise to refund anyone that asks? I saw they refunded one guy but lots of others are still complaining of radio-silence.

Regardless, if DP can pull this off that's be great. It just seems questionable to me that they'd be able to find new funding, even without budgeting an extra million or two up front to pay off existing debt to the pre-order folks.

#5685 1 year ago
Quoted from JimB:

Too bad the dude himself isn't interested in being an investor. Maybe he could use this as a tax write off?

I think he tapped out his checking account when he bought that half and half.

1 week later
#5773 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

If this is legit, the $16k TBL just lost some value. I feel real bad for the sucker who supposedly paid 25k - assuming this is going to come to fruition. Too early to tell but at this point buying or selling one is a pretty big gamble...

Buying or selling is relatively risky at this point, since it is far from certain they'll get production rolling again. And of course with a new manufacturer there's always the question of possible changes in quality/specs.

But here's hoping they start making games again. I imagine most current owners would be happy to see people get what they paid for (and see DP survive to provide future support), even if the market value of their games comes back down to ~retail.

2 weeks later
#5889 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

nonsense I'm afraid we are in the Europe Union, you'd be amazed what crazy shit happens here!

Let us know when your ARA Lebowski ships.

#5907 1 year ago
Quoted from Skins:

Please tell me the Richard "I'm Not A Crook" Nixon picture was an attempt as self-deprecating humor.

Obviously you're not a bowler.

a2385ed283199a55f82c97d0f39c5696--the-big-lebowski-nixon (resized).jpg

#5911 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

He discussed financing!! Seems like the new CM isn't interested in completely being the bank. He said that they (new CM) believes that the extra machines ordered by CT and Nitro (there are 200 of these, per Jaap) that have $1000 deposits on them can help pay for the 130 that have been paid for already. The quote was something like "being creative in how we build and ship the 200". Jaap believes DP has enough money in the bank that the profit from the 200 CT/Nitro machines + money in bank, will be enough to make the whole project (all 330 machines) cash flow. I took this to mean that they may be producing some of the 200 and the 130 at the same time in order to make the money work.

Or maybe the 200 CT/Nitro games would ship first (to bring in new revenue), and then the fully-paid games would ship (since they won't bring additional cash flow)? I did not watch the video but the quotes you provide seemingly could go either way. That would be a bummer for existing orders, of course, but similar to what happened with WOZ as I understand it, and perhaps the only way they could get the games made at this point.

#5923 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

I know about production issues.
But Did DP polish the code during this time?

Hard to polish the code when you don't have a programmer, as I understand it he left DP some time ago.

Probably worth asking DP to address with specificity their plans for future code updates in the next weekly update (i.e. do they plan to hire a new programmer or hire the original programmer back, if so do they plan to make significant changes/additions to the code or just polish/address bugs, will the new build require any changes to the code, etc.)

1 month later
#6004 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

NSN time:
Dear Rens,
It’s Friday again so… here is your weekly update about the production of The Big Lebowski™ Pinball.
We introduced our friends Cointaker to our new Contract Manufacturer and both organizations were happy to meet each other via Skype. The three of us talked about 1.5 hours about plans and expectations and we concluded that 2018 will be a very good year for our three companies. We will introduce our new Contract Manufacturer to you at Expo in Chicago (from Wednesday, October 11 until Sunday, October 15) where we will do a presentation on Friday at 6PM.
This week we received almost all parts to start producing the 0-series. We are now waiting for the last parts to arrive so we are getting there! We still are on schedule that the first ‘new’ TBL will be ready in October. We still are on track to deliver the first ‘new’ TBLs before the end of this year.
Next week we will be back with another update.
Have a nice weekend!
Kind regards,
Barry & Jaap

Doesn't sound like the timing would necessarily align, but wouldn't it be great for DP if they could have one of the "0-series" games at Expo this year, just to show that they're getting back on their feet and are capable of making machines again?

1 week later
#6017 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

Early birthday present:

Nice one! Hadn't seen that before.

amazon.com link »

Evidently the same car was used in an X-Files episode (don't you love the internet?):

#6019 1 year ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Did you buy your wife a LAPIN plate yet?

LAPIN (resized).jpg

#6022 1 year ago

The plot thickens. So in the end was The Big Lebowski actually the castrated male rabbit? ("That and a pair of testicles" as the Dude would say).

And more pressingly, who is castrating these rabbits?

#6028 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It will be a feather in their now rather depleted cap if they really can finish the engineering samples and deliver the first new machines in December, given how things looked earlier in the summer.

I'll say. We'll be verging on a Christmas miracle if they're shipping games in December. I hope for everyone's sake that it comes to pass.

1 week later
#6035 1 year ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

We also received the confirmation that our new contract manufacturer will join us at Expo in Chicago. We will introduce them at our presentation on Friday, 6 PM so you will have a chance to meet him and ask all questions that you have.

That seems like a positive development. Hopefully he's got good answers to the many questions the achievers must have at this point.

1 week later
#6045 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

If that's true, then DP is doing things bass ackwards. First and foremost they should have a few final TBL's at Expo. Because people want to lay their eyes and hands on one. And having two games is better than one for many reasons. We want to be assured the game can handle being played endlessly while continuing to work flawlessly. Without TBL's at Expo, Jaap could skype in remotely and be projectd on the screen in the seminar room, thus saving the airfare and hotel expenses. But if DP brought some TBL's, people could judge for themselves. Dutch Pinball, why can't we see the final TBL?

Sure, but it sounds like the games haven't been made yet. So there's nothing new to show.

2 weeks later
#6119 1 year ago
Quoted from jsa:

From a business perspective, I understand taking orders to create some cash flow if you have a model that can take you to breakeven with a certain number of sales. However, the idea that it makes any difference to handle the queue out of order doesn't make any logical sense to me. So I understand the literal words "new orders will have to be built before old," but the logic escapes me.

The logic is that no one is cutting checks to DP anymore to get at the back of a line — everyone has seen how that’s gone for the Early Achievers. The “new orders” they’re taking will require them to actually ship the games before they get paid. Their plan is to use money from those new sales to build the EA machines they owe.

This is, as I understand it, what JJP did with WOZ when things were looking grim for them. Not ideal and not fair, but if it works out, at least everyone will end up getting a game in the end.

#6135 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

You do realize that there are roughly 150 people in front of you? Given that they make an estimated 1k clear per machine (could be more if they would stop traveling all over the world telling everyone how great they are doing), they need to sell 1.5 million dollars worth of Lebowskis' before your even considered. And your worried about delivery charges?

Tough but fair.

#6141 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Double penetration.... kinda like how the people that got in on this in the beginning and are getting it 2x now with new customer's getting their machines first.

Perhaps your thinking of “Dutch Door Action,” as popularized in Wayne’s World.

1 week later
#6349 1 year ago
Quoted from taz:

Definitely! I own both games and regardless of different code numbering methodologies (.48 versus .75ish), TBL seems more than twice as developed as BM66 at this time. I’m pretty sure that all inserts work and there are many modes and multiballs. The biggest thing I’m still holding out hope for at this point is addition of some Knox Harrington, the video artist action. Hopefully, DP will figure away to squeeze him in to laugh during some mini mode.

A Knox Harrington video mode would be kind of awesome.

#6355 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Knox giggling uncontrollably when you drain to quickly.

Do it three times in a row and you get the "Friend With the Cleft Asshole" consolation multiball?

#6373 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

It is not cheaper to build in China?
I was on the fence to buy one if price were in relation with the market but if it is 10k€ I am out for sure.

No idea, but Euro price might be different than USD price?

3 months later
#6705 1 year ago

Easy now fellas, he's just trying to drum up a bit of panic and drive down prices so he can scoop a Lebowski up on the cheap. Evidently it didn't work the last time he tried this in this thread (about eight months ago if I remember right), but give him have another crack at it and I'm sure he'll convince someone to sell him one of these worthless, unplayable prototypes for $8k.

#6713 1 year ago

dkjimbo, you’re fighting with a straw man. No one said that OG Lebowski will still fetch $15k+ if/when DP gets it together and starts shipping machines again. But that still hasn’t happened and there’s no guarantee that it will. Anyone buying or selling a Lebowski now is well aware that DP hopes to make more of them, and might pull it off. The sales prices you are seeing reflect the uncertainties.

You obviously view the chance of significant numbers of new machines actually getting made (of equal or better quality than the first run) as pretty good, so you wouldn’t pay going rate for an existing Lebowski. That’s cool, but you also seem surprised that no one will sell to you at $11k. That’s just not where the market’s at right now.

1 month later
#6955 1 year ago
Quoted from Snoogans138:

I’d sent an email to DP last week just to see what they had to say about trying to get one in Australia and I got this back.
“Hello Simon,
We expect to start selling The Big Lebowski Pinball machines in a few months. We first need to ramp up the production.
We will keep you informed via our website, Newsletter and facebook page so please keep following us!
Kind regards,
Jaap Nauta”
So I mean, I’m not holding my breath based on everything that’s happened, but that’s better than the “we don’t have a distributor there” or “orders are no longer available” or anything along those lines that I was expecting to hear.

Just wait until they’re ready to ship you a game immediately before you turn a penny over - history of this game shows that to do otherwise would be nuts.

2 weeks later
#6967 1 year ago
Quoted from highdef:

Can anyone confirm the investment rumor?

Quoted from Mr68:

It's an important question as I have learned to not trust Pinside at all in situations like this. And DP needs to make an announcement to restore faith if it's true.

And even if there's an announcement from DP, people need to continue to protect themselves as best they can until there is concrete evidence that things at DP have stabilized (i.e. games are shipping at a steady and predictable rate to old and new money folks alike). It's tempting to believe that people who love your hobby just as much as you do could never mislead you, or would be incapable of fooling themselves. But at this point, "trust but verify" has to be the rule when dealing with any boutique pinball manufacturer. Or maybe just "verify, verify, verify."

#6978 1 year ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Only on pinside can the demise of one pinball company be considered an issue for the overall business health of another. Heighway’s failure was due to a completely separate set of issues. I don’t see the guys at DP living high off the hog and starting a boat company.

“No money to make the games” is the real problem, and the why of it is a secondary concern - people just want their games. DP’s not in bankruptcy so it’s still possible they’ll pull something off, but how could anyone believe it until they’re shipping games in steady numbers?

1 week later
#7030 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Is it even legal, of course given the jurisdiction, to sell a product to a new customer when there are 150 people waiting for theirs and have prepaid for the exact same product they will be producing and selling? I would love to ask a lawyer who specializes in this arena. For some reason it goes against by better judgement and I would think the line is getting crossed somewhere.

Are you asking if it's "legal" for DP to still be taking orders? Or do you mean if/when DP gets around to shipping out Lebowski 2.0, could original preorder customers sue them for shipping "out of order" based on when payment was made? I don't see why DP couldn't continue to take new orders, so long as they still believe they've actually got a chance of making games and fulfilling those orders some day. As for the original preorder customers, they could sue right now for breach of contract, since they paid for a pinball machine and one was not shipped within a reasonable period of time, no need to wait for DP to start shipping games "out of order."

But like you say, if you really want to know you'd have to ask a lawyer that specializes in this stuff.

#7038 1 year ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

I really hope many of you are ready to eat crow. While many of you have been trash talking, DP has been learning the art of pinball.

Hopefully that encompasses the art of shipping pinball.

1 week later
#7097 1 year ago
Quoted from jpk1972:

I just contacted XYTECH through their main contact page for any updates on their end. I am skeptical whether I will get a response, but in the event I do I will post it here immediately.

It would be surprising if XYTECH answers (other than to put you back in contact with DP), part of the benefit of being a contract manufacturer is not having to deal with end-users directly.

Quoted from Rick432:

Options for collective action for those who have lost money with DP directly?

You could try small claims court. Dollar limit ranges from $2.5k-$15k depending on the state, and it should be a straightforward argument that they broke the contract, but you'll have to convince the court that it's legally proper to sue a Dutch company in whatever state you file your case, as opposed to in Dutch court. Or hire a lawyer, who can figure out if you can sue DP in the US, and whether you can bundle a bunch of claims together to spread the cost. You might reach out to mr68, I believe he helped coordinate the group that just got a judgment against JPop and might have some thoughts on how to get started.

None of this guarantees that DP will actually pay a judgment against it, of course.

#7103 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well, that's how we finally got answers about the PCB-delay lie...a few of us started to email ARA - and we got responses that were different than the DP story.
Since DP has gone silent, it's the right of anyone with money in on this project to contact Xytech and/or Unviersal Studios licensing division to get information.

Sure thing, it's the buyers right to take whatever steps they can to be informed and protect their money. Just seems unlikely that XYTECH's going to talk -- ARA situation was somewhat different in that DP was blaming them for delays, and they'd seemingly had a complete breakdown in the relationship by that point. But it cannot hurt to ask.

#7114 1 year ago
Quoted from MPRAMONE:

"capable of doing" : like what ? an offer they can't refuse ?
"This aggression will not stand"-the Dude

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Universal will, or should, threaten DP with physical violence.

Presumably the idea is you talk to Universal and hope that they will call DP and threaten to pull the license or take other punitive steps under the licensing agreement if things don't get straightened out. Then, DP hopefully responds positively to the pressure and games start shipping (or at the least, information starts flowing again). Or, DP continues to give their customers the silent treatment, the license gets pulled, and at least everyone knows where they stand and can proceed with their lawsuits, official period of mourning, etc.

#7359 12 months ago
Quoted from EternalLife:

Maybe ARA is suing DP just to close the books and write it off as a loss?

#7512 12 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

From Wikipedia: "Deus ex machina (Latin) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and seemingly unlikely occurrence, typically to the point of being perceived as a contrived plot point. Its function can be to resolve an otherwise irresolvable plot situation, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or act as a comedic device".
I had to look it up and thought I'd share. (Well done RT)

Speaking of, did anyone else see Ex Machina? Incredible movie, well worth the two hours.

1 week later
#7670 11 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

It also applies in the US and Netherlands.

In the US, each side generally pays their own way in litigation regardless of who wins.

I understand that most European countries follow the "British Rule" where the loser pays for both sides' legal costs.

2 weeks later
#7745 11 months ago

ballypinball, are you talking about rarehero getting a refund like a year ago by threatening to contact Universal (in which case that has little bearing on today’s situation and seems an awful lot like you’re just stirring up shit)? Or do you have specific knowledge of people getting actual refunds since DP’s “whoops, the party’s over” email last month? If so that’d be huge, even if it doesn’t make much sense since it’s not clear where the money for refunds would be coming from.

#7764 11 months ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

No I mean there has been more current refunds

Can people with skin in the game PM you for contact details on the people you know of that got recent refunds? They should be able to share more precisely how they got their money back, which would be very useful to others in the same situation.

#7815 11 months ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

Wow... Didn't see this one coming... Now a Kickstarter too? Maybe TBL will come with a rug and a Stern coffee table book..?

The Seattle Seven. That was EternalLife ... and six other guys.

Quoted from EternalLife:

That being said, we're forming the "Seattle Seven". We are EA's brainstorming ways to end ARA involvement in TBL and restart the line.

2 weeks later
#7864 10 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

I won’t go into details on how I got a refund (it wasn’t voluntary), but I accomplished it without directly contacting Universal.

Why not?!? You’ve got your refund (and congratulations on that, must be a huge relief), now share what you know and give others a shot.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

This is one of many refunds i know about, did you read this proof Rosh ?

Are you finally ready to share any actionable details on how your acquaintances are wrangling refunds? People were questioning your veracity because you provided nothing concrete to back up your statements. If you have information that could help people recover funds, for God’s sake out with it already. Maybe it’ll do some good and at least a few more people might get some money back before the Titanic goes down here.

#7865 10 months ago


#7873 10 months ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

DP might want to release a NSNL and start moving forward on building pinballs. This could get ugly fast.

DP might want to start building pinballs, but as they've told us they're out of cash, so they cannot.

#7925 10 months ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

The Go Fund Me program isn't going that great. Only 4 of the Seattle Seven have donated!

The other three will probably pay by check. What do you get for a $0.69 donation?

Ralphs (resized).jpg

#7978 10 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Probably because he's claimed other 'facts', possibly with the agenda of hoping to score the ARA TBLs.

Any day now he’ll be back with those details on how his aquaintences are scoring refunds

If it’s true and he actually knows something that could be of use to people that are out thousands of dollars here, it’s shameful that he has time to pop into the thread but cannot be bothered to share the necessary details. What gives?

#8087 10 months ago
Quoted from cyclone1234:

I had many conversations with high def , i know the way he approached this and hence most likely got a refund , he is a very smart person , i wouldn't even no how to begin and he told me what he did , i was hoping he would let me know but it might be a condition of his refund to go silent , waiting for him to pm me but have not heard from him .....

If so, he had a hell of a time going silent - not, apparently, out of a desire to help his fellow pinhead, but out of a need to illustrate what a dildo the K-man is. Which we all knew already without a seven paragraph post that brought nothing new to the table other than a general statement that he got his money back and wouldn’t be sharing his methods with the rest of the community.

1 month later
#8354 8 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Every time I read this thread, I think to myself better you guys than me ‍♂️

Isn't there a Hurricane Florence thread you should be posting in?

1 month later
#8410 7 months ago
Quoted from Deadpin:

Something every dude needs! Although still only in pre-order....

Thanks for posting! This went right on my Christmas list.

Lebowski Box

Shipping now from Amazon:
amazon.com link »

#8412 7 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

Interesting,they dropped the $ in the Title font which I believe was added at the 10th anniversary and is included in the pinball.

Glad they did, I never liked the $ change. Seems like the fonts should be baked in for a 20 year old movie.

1 month later
#8531 5 months ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Probably not, most licenses have time limits.

I would guess that licenses with seasoned players like Universal are also non-transferable (without the licensor’s permission). What you’d probably need to do is buy the design, software, etc. from DP and then get Universal to separately sell you the license to make more.

#8533 5 months ago
Quoted from RTR:

This is the least of anyone's worries and easily overcome a if a real pinball company or investor swooped in and purchased the DP assets. Roger Sharpe has intervened and "Ball Saved" this license at least once, if not twice, on DP's behalf.

There’s definitely potential there, and if DP goes into bankruptcy maybe you can scoop up their part of the rights for cheap at an auction. The rest just depends on if Universal is still willing to play or if they don’t want their property associated with this mess for the peanuts that a pinball license brings in. I’m sure they’ve seen it all though, and they do like money.

1 month later
#8578 3 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Good grief, another wannabe Pinside lawyer. Tell us where you got your law degree counselor. Was it from television or a bar stool?

dkjimbo's legal analysis definitely smells like "stool" of some variety ...

Quoted from flynnibus:

If you want a slam dunk on paper.. look at Skit-B... that should be a slam dunk, yet that is domestic (vs international) and even that didn't get anyone off the pot to file fraud charges.

Good point. And before dkjimbo pulls a hamstring kicking the buyers while they're down, let's remember that at least in the States only the prosecutor has the power to file fraud charges.

1 week later
#8608 3 months ago

Is Jeff Bridges hurting for money? I was surprised to see him and Harrison Ford slumming it in Super Bowl ads.

I guess he’s gotta feed the monkey.

1 month later
#8633 63 days ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Kaneda says suit is settled and 70 games will ship within 30 days

Quoted from foxtj24:

I think it is an Early April fools joke. Did anyone else listen to the whole thing?


#8693 62 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

If I sell you a promise of building you a house... and we go into a dispute.. you don't freeze the toilet I bought and still have sitting on my warehouse shelves. I just owe you a toilet or some agreed upon equivalent if I lost.

Unless Universal also granted ARA the right to sell Lebowski branded pinball games, this toilet analogy is a turd.

#8698 62 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Ability to sell the game is a different angle entirely... but not really relevant to the point contested (that the assets are locked up in the court case). ARA sued DP for monies owed and probably breach of contract terms. Things that not contingent on what assets ARA has or not. ARA's benches, tools, and everything else used to make the games aren't going to be frozen over a dispute to get paid for their work. For the assets to be locked up, DP would have had to make some claims that they're rightfully theirs. Which we know they just tried to walk away from...

Ah, so you are literally talking about selling toilets now. Makes perfect sense of course. I mistakenly thought we were talking about Big Lebowski pinball machines and whether they might conceivably be leaving ARAs shipping dock. I must have wandered into the middle of the wrong thread.

3 weeks later
#8746 41 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot. Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

How would money owed by DP to the Early Achievers impact a lawsuit between DP and ARA? Just so it's clear, this isn't a bankruptcy case yet, it's a contract dispute between the manufacturer (ARA) and the client (DP).

#8751 40 days ago

Huh? You’re claiming that the court is going to make DP destroy the existing games if it wins? Are you just making all of this up as you go?

Also, “funding Agents for development” isn’t a thing. The EAs are plain old customers that got stiffed.

#8758 39 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

Read it again. My career was in Contract Manufacturing.
DP holds rights to Art? Can't pay to finish games? ARA can't sell finished games.
ARA wins rights to Art? They can sell finished games and produce more.
As far as EA claims? The squeaky wheel gets the grease. ALL legitimate claims must be considered in a legal proceeding. They have a legitimate claim. A large amount of "plain old customers" that get stiffed is a class-action.
Right now they are faceless, nameless entities to the Judge. Probably too late at this point.

I respect your career experience, but your legal analysis doesn't make any more sense on a second reading. When you say that "ALL legitimate claims must be considered in a legal proceeding" are you still talking about this contract case between ARA and DP? The problem is that the EAs probably don't have a "legitimate" claim to make in that context. In what world does the judge consider all of the collateral effects of a ruling on a contract claim, instead of just deciding what the words in the contract means and then deciding whether the parties (ARA and DP) did what they promised to do when they signed it? On Judge Judy maybe, but I doubt in the Netherlands. It would be pretty screwy if the judge said "DP, if I just looked at the contract you'd win, but because you're out of cash you're unlikely to make more games. So I'm going to give ARA the win even though they're the ones that broke the contract. Oh, and while I'm at it I'm also going to award APA your IP rights in the game."

Or do you really mean that the EAs should file their own lawsuit against DP to recover their lost payments? This would be logical enough, and there's even a thread discussing it. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/class-action-lawsuit
In the context of their own lawsuit the EAs' claims would be "legitimate." Likewise if DP went into bankruptcy. Just not in this contract case between ARA and DP.

1 month later
#8805 13 hours ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

An update from Barry and Jaap would be appreciated.

Where were things at the time of the last update? DP is broke, and the only chance of them making more TBLs is if they win the lawsuit and then get the Chinese manufacturer to produce games for them on credit. We know the lawsuit hasn't resolved yet, so I doubt there's much for DP to report.

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