Westchase, FL
Quoted from RobOOZE:Plus cash if delivered
Dude, Melissa has like 13 games left that are all expected to be built and shipped before the end of the year. Keep or sell Tron and buy TBL before they are sold out.
(Topic ID: 115360)
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The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016
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2 weeks later
Quoted from RTS:This needs to change. If there is no challenging strategic element, this game will suffer.
I'm sure it will. However, I don't think it's helpful when that other member insinuated that this may be Dutch's last game. If that is a fact then I would really like to know because I currently have a game on pre-order I can cancel. Hopefully DPG can address these rumors on Pinside.
1 week later
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Sure, having TBL games to play at shows is great and although a lot of folks are willing to wait in long lines to try it out, the general buzz surrounding TBL is now a fraction of what it was when it was first unveiled with much fanfare at Expo two long years ago. And FWIW, while finally having A TBL for the first time at the NW Show this year was wonderful, unbelievably, it was NOT running the latest code version available at the time!
The point intended in my post though was merely that if DP wants to compete with the other manufacturers exhibiting new games at Expo this year, they need to have something significant to talk up about TBL other than games starting to trickle out of the factory or code that is cool, but STILL has a ways to go yet. As a DP and TBL supporter, I hope they will.
Apparently they are backed buy a multi million dollar company so I wouldn't be concerned too much.
Hey guys, just trying to get an idea on my machine. How many "Early Editions" were made? I'm #85 whatever that means but don't think I'm an early edition for obvious reason. However, I still get a rug just not a number and plaque.
Thanks for your help. I'm just trying to not bother Melissa too much.
Quoted from Concretehardt:When did you order? And are you #85 Achiever edition or just #85?
So I think I figured it out. I'm probably #85 on Cointaker's list and not necessarily overall obviously. I ordered in late July so seriously doubt I'm getting an early edition game. I will call to verify though.
1 month later
Hey guys I don't want to bother Melissa and I know I'm a LONG ways off. But, does anyone care to speculate on what number I may be if I was paid in full on 8/23/2016?
Like I said, I know I'm at the end of the pack just trying to get an idea. Thanks!
Quoted from Mike_M:I put my deposit in mid June (2016) - at the time I was told an estimate of late this year... but have always assumed it would comfortably into 2017 until it actually shipped. I suppose I'm somewhere between 200-300 but have no idea where.
Out of curiosity- why did you pay in full if you're not part of the original "Early Achievers" group?
According to Melissa I don't think there was any other option. I think they were real close to selling out so perhaps that's the reason why? She still hasn't responded to my email I sent out on Halloween.
Thanks for your help though. At least I have someone to keep an eye so that when you get yours more than likely mine is right around the corner.
1 week later
Quoted from Rarehero:Gagrghghghhlargh....mine JUST missed the last container and now mine's just sitting there waiting for 40 more games? I really hope it ships soon...I was confident mine would finally arrive this year...if it gets bumped to '17, that'll be a bummer man!
Yea, it's a shame you'll have to play one of your other 26 games... 
Quoted from Rarehero:Irrelevant. I paid for this game in 2014. It's built. Let's go!
I was just messing with you. I totally get it and you were one of the people who were very excited about the game whereas I was a cynic. Now I wish I wasn't but glad I at least got in for the game. I'll keep and eye out on the boards and hopefully your game will be here very soon.
2 months later
Quoted from chuckwurt:I couldn't care less what a pins worth.
I couldn't either!! Unless........
It's in my collection. 
2 weeks later
Quoted from RobT:Dutch, Scotch, English, Irish, Portuguese and German.....and even a little Native American thrown in for good measure.
Maybe DP should hit up the other 5 countries for money. 
Does anyone have the latest stable code they can email me? I unfortunately got left off of the list for code. Please PM me if you have the last stable code. I think the last code was unstable so the one before that.
I would greatly appreciate it.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:According to the dutchpinball forum:
How will you receive your updates:
- When a new update becomes available we will e-mail the download link and changelog to all The Big Lebowski™ Pinball owners (for the machines that have shipped).
[email protected]
Thanks. That's the problem though, I'm not currently on the owners list. So just trying to figure out how I can get the latest code.
Quoted from Rarehero:They were Licenced and had playable prototypes. I don't need your fucking lecture on my retroactive mistakes. We want to know what to do NOW with the situation as it is NOW.
Licenced? Now I KNOW you've had a privileged life with obviously a top notched education to boot!
Quoted from Rarehero:What the fuck are you talking about? The Big Lebowski pinball is licensed by Universal. This is a fact. Why are you starting shit with me based on nothing? If you have a problem with what I'm saying and have facts to back it up, let's go - otherwise, enough with the personal attacks and lies.
Dude, I'm just merely pointing out you can't spell licensed correctly. Carry on. 
From your link: In American English, license is both a noun and a verb, and licence isn’t used.
And...last time I checked Rarehero is in America.
Quoted from fosaisu:For the record, Rarehero, I did not actually think that eggbert52's veiled reference to your typo was an epic burn. My sarcasm appears to have slipped by the goalie.
A blood pressure raising post maybe but you're right, definitely not an epic burn.
Quoted from Superchicken:Weather resolution happens between the two parties or in court a data dump here will be to DP's disadvantage.
"Weather resolution happens???" How are people supposed to take your opinion seriously? I'm like really??
Quoted from dmbjunky:Not every new pin company is gonna be like Spooky. It's common sense.
Everyone is using Spooky as this model of perfection but after the reviews of Rob Zombie and the number of people who backed out with a refundable deposit, I'm sure put Spooky in a tough financial situation. Fortunately, they are lean and live in a relatively inexpensive part of the country. At the end of the day though, I think Spooky is the modern day Game Plan if they don't start stepping it up on their games.
Quoted from metallik:You're sure, eh? Do you know exactly how many unsold RZSIs there are in inventory? Do you know if that number is even greater than zero? I see no evidence whatsoever of financial issues at Spooky.
Don't equate people having second thoughts on the game (it is NOT a family machine in any sense) with failure to sell through. Just took a little longer for some games to find homes
I know that you own a total of one game and that I bought both of Spooky's games. That alone says I probably know more about the company than you do.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:Apparently it doesn't because you think Spooky lost money due to RZ cancellations when they are still sold out with a waiting list.
Point to where I said they "lost money."
Quoted from karl:Back to boring
I find it strange that not one single Dutch person has been even a tiny bit worried about the situation.
I don't know you Karl but perhaps they really are and are just sick of people like you speculating about what you don't know? Just a hunch.
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:You kind of just popped into this thread, what's your Achiever # again?
I can't say but I am happy to take a picture of my game room.
Quoted from Gutterballs:Hey eggbert, are you insinuating that you have a TBL? If so, tell us about it, it would be nice to hear some real news about the game. Thanks.
Updated game room with TBL. Got my game 3 weeks ago this past Friday.
Quoted from Gutterballs:Eggbert, so, what do you think about the game?
I absolutely love the game. The latest code .48 is actually in depth enough to keep me going and hopefully they have something updated in the next few months after they get these games back off of the ground. I am fortunate to have one.
Quoted from Razorbak86:TBH, I'm surprised you bought a TBL, given the tenor of your posts in the other thread (now closed).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-usa-refund-still-want-the-game?tq&tu=Eggbert52
I'm glad you like the game now, though.
Yes, but my defense of being called a paraquate was second to none!
Quoted from bounoun:wait, how incomplete is the code for TBL ? are we talking stern incomplete ?
.48 is obviously incomplete but I wouldn't call it incomplete like say Wheel of Fortune or original Cactus Canyon incomplete. I think it's just that the game has quite a few shots and modes that could be included that I would say the code is maybe 10% complete. However, that 10% or so is pretty damn fun. That being said, you can't stack multi-balls and the only extended modes really involve the upper playfield and the car. The possibilities are endless and at this point I would say Dialed In has a much more robust code than TBL. But, I like the playfield of TBL better which is saying a lot as I have a very early pre-order on DI. Hope that helps.
1 week later
Quoted from bemmett:I'm kind of getting burnt out on this whole thing, I'm not enjoying having my game right now(I know boo hoo poor me, I really do feel for those that have money in and nothing to show for it). I'm not playing it much anymore as the code is only a shell of a game still. I have such high expectations and this was a dream theme for me and I love the layout and think it can be a phenomenal game if ever finished but it just isn't fun right now.
Has anyone sold one on here yet that actually had the game in possession, kind of stopped paying attention? Not saying I will sell it but I might consider it strongly without any good news coming out soon or at TPF. Not even sure what it might be worth to anyone to be honest, obviously someone with money in with DP has little interest in paying for another one.
You've got 20 games to play and you're sitting around worrying about the code for one of them? Not being patient NEVER pays off. Just hang tight and let the chips fall where they will. Trust me, the value of your game is only going to go up. And those that say it won't, want one, don't own one, and are hoping to get one. Just remember that.
Now go play some pinball.
Quoted from bemmett:Well I know some people will take that attitude but again I like playing them, I don't buy them for value or trophy pieces, right now that is all TBL is, a trophy with a lot of drama around it. I enjoy pinball for a relaxing getaway, not drama...... I guess we'll see
To be honest bro, I just found out that my friend has tonsil cancer today and Steve Charland would give anything just to be able to play pinball one more day with his friends and family. Please, appreciate what you do have, which is a LOT and enjoy the weekend.
Quoted from bemmett:I'm entitled just as much as everyone.
I think everyone is in agreement that you are definitely entitled.
1 week later
For those of you saying the profits from BOP 3.0 aren't enough to get the rest of the TBL made, what makes you think so? 25 BOP, $12,500 per machine = $312,500.
250 remaining TBL with $1,000 increase = $250,000. The cost of each BOP to make is probably $2.5K so that's your remaining $62,500. Totally feasible.
Quoted from fosaisu:The infeasible part is selling that many $12.5k BOP3s.
If a non working Magic Girl can be sold for $25K then anything is possible. We are only talking about 25 people.
Quoted from boustrophedonic:Wow, 100% profit margin. That must be some deal they have with the new CM.
It's since been corrected. Totally doable.
Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
Quoted from RTR:You are assuming 1000 usd per machine frees them.
Also the remaining unbuilt/hostage machines are 240.
Yes, definitely going on those numbers.
Quoted from Rarehero:A non working MG at least physically exists. BOP SLE does not. Just as no one would ever order a game from Jpop again, no one is going to order this.
Yea, and we've had a non working Magic Girl for what all of a month now?
Quoted from Manimal:And if the amount needed to get this moving again were just 1K per machine, the buyers would have already been hit up for the cash
That is 100% pure speculation on your part and you know it.
Quoted from Rick432:Well, we're risking it all on a game of pitch and toss...
I just love the quote from Vin Scully in "For Love of the Game" so the situation seemed fitting.
Quoted from Rick432:I didn't know it was from that.
I think BEFORE that it is Rudyard Kipling's poem, "If."
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
Source: A Choice of Kipling's Verse (1943)
Yep, definitely from Kipling. However, Scully made it his own by changing a couple of words. It's Scully's paraphrasing of Kipling's quote that is worth listening to.
Really nice to see Pinsiders get along. I like it!
1 week later
Quoted from jwilson:I dunno, personally I would like to see confirmation from ARA about this productive meeting, given DP's proclivity to bend the truth to suit their needs.
Once bitten, twice shy.
Ridiculous. What have you been bitten on? You haven't lost any money yet.
Quoted from jwilson:No, but Jaap has lied over and over. But this time he's totally telling the truth!
True.
Quoted from titanpenguin:Let's be honest, we all really kept coming back to see rarehero's rants.
I'm gonna go ahead and start the "Rarehero rant against Houdini" thread. 
4 weeks later
Quoted from jayhawkai:I've never seen someone enjoy being wrong so much and so often.
I think you mean, other than you.
Quoted from SadSack:My sole purpose in this thread is to call bullshit on any of the enablers that would help any of you lose your monies. I'm sorry some of you are so invested that you see my help as a threat. I'm really not angry. I'm disappointed. I'm having a deja vous with the other threads. This stage of mourning your financial loss is denial tending toward bargaining. Once you guys hit anger, I won't have anything more to say.
Pretty sure no one cares dude. Save the energy. Also...
"you're out of your f'ing element SadSack!"
Quoted from Mr68:Golf clap.
Yea, after the guy sinks a 19 foot putt to win the Masters.
Quoted from Nikonokin:The process ends 1 of 2 ways:
1 - TBL get's completed and delivered...as promised.
2 - TBL goes up in smoke, and reputation of all those involved is trashed (regarding pinball).
Do the right thing DP. You may have gotten burnt, but this is YOUR project, your livelihood. Deliver it, and let it become one of the all time cult most collectible pins out there...or not.
Or 3. When speculators like you finally stop posting and just let the facts come out as they will.
Quoted from ToucanF16:-1, FWIW, the thread is all for entertainment.
eggbert52 already has his game and even has it for sale at practically double what he paid.
Dude, no one cares.
Quoted from Mike_M:Those 51 bff's are going to dwindle quickly as stuff breaks and they find they can't get replacement parts.
Yep. Just like the 9 KingPins, One Loch Ness Monster, and 2 Pinball Circus' that seem to still be working and Oh Yea...drawing huge dollars whenever they are up for sale.
Quoted from RTR:says the guy that owns one....
Of course! Why wouldn't I?
1 week later
Quoted from Rarehero:(contents edited by Mod team). I'd rather lose it all than give anything to you.
You're friends with Barry & Jaap, you probably DO have the inside info, while giving US shit for speculating...what else can we do when we're dealing with this mess!?!?! For all we know, you know things are about to get resolved and you're trying to get my game on the cheap. If you really want my game, give $8500 to Barry and Jaap, then they can formally issue me a refund and give you my game.
Stop lashing out on fucked over customers. All responsibility lies with those who sold us a game and haven't delivered.
Absolutely appalling this is only a 1 day ban from the thread. I understand the frustration but just no excuse for this type of rant. Do this in your personal emails to DP but not on here.
Quoted from RTR:Great, just checking. Thank you. We are at least in the same financial boat I guess.
So wait, you don't actually OWN the game? Why is it in your lineup then? Also, is that you selling a "spot" for $8,500? That's just as fraudulent as JPop, DP and Skit B themselves.
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:You never even ordered the game and were negative about it all the way until you bought a stock unit... for what appears to be just for personal gain. Then you jump into this thread like you're the king of TBL or something. Give me a break. Just because you managed to scam your way to one of the 50 or so games released doesn't make you anything more than speculator who is only worried about how much his game is worth.
Dude, 95% of my comments are tongue in cheek. However, as my blood pressure remains nice and low it's entertaining to see others so affected. Others have made similar comments to me regarding putting Houdini, etc. in my lineup and again, my blood pressure stays low. It's a freaking pinball board, not cancer.
And by the way, I have no preconceived notions that my TBL is actually going to sell for $18K. To be honest, I don't need the money and would rather see DP succeed so I can play the game without worrying about breaking a part.
Quoted from knockerlover:I have to say, I love all this positive creativity and problem solving!
That will amount to nothing. Half these guys posting on here should have tried this hard when they were in school. Maybe they'd have a few more machines by now.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:They are annoucing that Andrew from HP is joining them
Neil
Good, we'll get an extra person now teaching us how to run a company into the ground.
If you watched that entire WebEx and you still think these guys from DP are full of shit then you need to reassess your ability to read people.
Bottom line: These guys should have done this project in the U.S. where they would have been protected by contract laws and this never would have happened. It's clear that Barry and Jaap are sincere but obviously were a little out of their league in terms of running a business in Europe. It's that simple.
Also, it's fair to note that after watching this entire interview, it's clear that 88% of the comments on Pinside and in this thread are biased, inaccurate, and based on pure emotion rather than facts.
ARA clearly knew they had a piss ant pinball company that they could abuse and bet their strong hand against the possibility that DP would sue knowing that would be a route that DP would never take and would more than likely bankrupt the company before seeing it to fruition.
Quoted from knockerlover:I wholeheartedly agree.
It's just amazing how clear this shit is. Smart move trying to buy a spot.
Quoted from foxtj24:You are only hearing what DP wants you to hear. ARA's side of the story is DP did not pay the bill, at all, even for the games already shipped. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. They are broke, The money is gone. They are done. Why would they need financing if our preorder money was still there? They wouldn't.
You're an ill informed skeptic with zero listening or business skills. Do you "honestly" believe that two guys who want to build this pinball, knowing they weren't going to get rich out of it, are going to not pay a bill that interferes with their ultimate goal? Once again, highly doubtful.
And by the way, don't tell me what I'm "hearing." I'm pretty fucking smart.
Tell you what 24. I'll bet $10K right now with you that they get all 300 machines built in the next 2 years.
Quoted from foxtj24:If they did not have the money to pay the bill, absolutely believe that.
And once again like the other 50,000 posts in here, you have only speculation and zero facts. Let's both come up with $10K and we'll let Iceman put it in escrow till exactly 2 years from now.
Quoted from icust298:I would say their ultimate goal was to make money. Well, unless they started this thing as a charity.
Obviously this is always the hope of any small business. However, the greater goal is to build, expand, and truly develop into a business. Most businesses just starting out can only dream to break even with their first effort. Jesus, watching just one rerun of Shark Tank would teach you that.
One other thing. I am absolutely amazed at Jaap's poise during the entire WebEx. Guys that are ripping people off for thousands of dollars or who are in trouble financially simply don't act that way. Not to mention the fact he had to deal with 86 questions from a bunch of whiny cry babies who have zero self discipline.
Quoted from RTR:This doesn't happen without some level of ARA involvement. No one lends money - banks, angels, lottery winners, rich uncles - to someone that has an unresolved, unpaid 600k+ bill.
Do you walk around work saying the type of stupid speculative shit you spew in this thread? I sure hope not.
1 week later
Quoted from RTR:I guess you will be lowering the price on your game now? Asking for a moron friend of mine....
It doesn't matter because in 5 years every one of the 300 TBLs will be worth $16K.
1 week later
Quoted from flynnibus:Meh.. they still haven't addressed the elephant in the room.. THE MONEY.
And they don't have to. At the end of the day your just some unknown person on a pinball board giving your opinion whereas these guys are actually trying to run a business. Big difference. If they listened to every Tom, Dick, Harry and Flynnibus they'd never get anything done.
1 week later
Quoted from RTR:I just moved mine to the wishlist too. Made sense before, but now that they exist its tough to keep it in the 'owned' section. Maybe Robin should add a 'prepaid but not delivered' section....
Funny, mine sits in my "owned" section.
Quoted from CNKay:That's some funny shit right there!
And those are engineering samples.
Keep drinking white Russians and maybe you'll forget you lost all that money.
You dudes need a reality check.
I think you hurt RTR's feelings. Oh well. 
3 months later
Quoted from colonel_caverne:Thanks for the video.
I hope the sound and music will be improved. I have the feeling you were playing to candy crush at one moment!
Sound and video is fine. As a matter of fact, I still think it's the absolute best LCD display of any modern game available. It's just the video and the background noise that make it sound like it needs to be improved.
Quoted from RTS:They could do a lot toward generating interest in the game if they improve code while nothing else is going on.
The stagnant code has little to do with manufacturing and assembly. It's just a reminder that these guys are broke.
There is ZERO reason for anybody new to throw money at this train wreck.
Reread your own post. Where are they going to get the MONEY...to hire a programmer for new code?
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