Quoted from sd_tom:
Glad to get a glimpse of the challenges at least. Wonder if Phillip Seymour Hoffman's estate is a challenge. With his death still quite fresh they may not be all about putting him on a pinball machine at this moment
I can't possibly refresh my email any more than I am. Sorry work, nothing is getting done until this email comes.
This part of the game is getting old.
I just want this thing in my house so we can get to the part where we're arguing about it's place in the top 10.
Quoted from sd_tom:
Am I still in the club if I don't care for the other two games?
You're definitely the oddball out on Pinside if you don't like either. This is a friendly club, so you're good here. I wouldn't go mentioning that stuff outside of here though.
FWIW, I'm a fan of both. Tron much more so than IM, but I'm always excited to put a couple plays on both when I come across them. Fortunately, one of the few places in the area just got a Tron, so I'll be able to get my fix now.
Anyways, keep it up DP! #30 needs to get here soon.
Quoted from dannylite:
By my calculations at #31. I'm just gonna miss the 1st container :wall:unless 2 out of the next 16 slated for the container pick air freight.
So let's hear it dudes who's got good news for me. Which one of you millionaires is taking the fast plane?
bajapanda? Bemmet? Jazzmaster? Burningman? sd_tom? RTR? Mr68?
R6emporer? Taz? Mr_Freshie? ectobar? Bueller?
Sorry dude, I'm likely in the same situation as you. I'll help you cheer on the millionaires. Come on boys, get your air ship on.
Quoted from iceman44:
How much are you willing to pay to acquire one?
Video is great. Negatives to me are the rug shot, bowling play field and the horrendous instrumentals along with the "clunky feel".
I think you gotta really love the theme over everything else to justify this one.
I feel you have to repeatedly talk shit about the game even though you have also repeatedly said you have no interest in buying it. Just go away.
What's the cutoff number? I'm 30. That picture makes it look like 24/25/26 are the last ones in.
Very cool regardless.
I honestly haven't even opened it yet. I can report back tonight if no one else does.
Quoted from sd_tom:
Strategy question while i'm at work and just pondering how to get better scores; anyone figure out yet if you stack white Russians on the same shot?
Was trying to figure that out the other night. I don't think you can currently. Seemed like the remaining white russians would continue to blink until you hit one of them.
Seems like that is poised to become more important in the future. I feel like a lot of the code is that way. Lot's going on, and you can get a feel where the game is going, but still needs more refinement.
Left Diverter problems persisted, but with a little help from a friend was able to diagnose and get another fix in.
Diverter was getting stuck above the ramp. It would swivel slightly and get hung up on the ramp and not be able to lower.
First attempt at a remedy was to add some washers under the playfield to prevent the diverter from going up so high. That had the opposite effect of getting the diverter stuck below the ramp.
Next, took the advice of Pdxmonkey, and added a piece of felt behind the diverter, attached to the ramp. This prevents the diverter from being able to swivel. I also removed the washers I previously put in.
This worked for a couple games, but then the diverter was once again getting stuck in the down position, only this time it wasn't getting hung up on the ramp, and wasn't obvious why it was getting stuck.
After some closer examination, we figured out that the diverter was smashing down into the lane guide so hard, that it had cracked it and was getting hung up in the guide. My center lane guide in the pops is basically destroyed already. Every time the diverter is engaged, it travels enough down to physically move the guide every time. For the time being, I added another piece of felt to the top of the diverter which has 'fixed' the problem.
Felt added to guide:
Quoted from sd_tom:
The washers seem good idea, except they would make the issue of ramming into the center lane plastic even worse as you are lowering the entire assembly. I'm wondering if this is where yours got cracked
Could be. However, even once the washers were removed, the arm is still traveling far enough down to move the guide. Both my coil and guides are currently flush with the playfield, just seems like it all needs to align extremely precisely.
Anyways, I'm currently fully operational. Hoping to get a night or two in where I don't have to tinker.
How do you guys feel about the Super Bands?
I am over them. Just way too sticky. Doesn't feel right.
I had them on my other pins for a while and was fine with them, but since Titans came out I've switched over to them and like the feel of them much better. I do think the Super Bands are more durable though. I still have some of the post rings in my ST, and those seem to survive much longer than either regular rubber or Titans. But for the flippers, I'm going with Titans.
Going to get an order in this weekend. Figured I'll get a set of orange for the flips and slings, and maybe some other colors to try out as well.
I do have that stabilizer.
Unfortunately, felt on top of the lane guide isn't totally working. Downgraded to mostly working. It's still occasionally getting stuck down.
Next on the list:
After a tilt, I lose music and most lights for the next ball. Callouts are still functioning. Anyone else experience this?
Replaced the Super Bands for Titans on the main flippers. Shots feel better. Not nearly as much crazy ball spin.
Bought the wrong size apparently though for the top flipper. I bought the rubber labeled, 'mini' and it's too small. The other options on Titan's site for flippers are 'thin' and '3/8'. I'm guessing I need the 3/8. Can anyone confirm? Not as a big a deal though, the super on the top flipper doesn't really bother me all that much.
Also bought some blue rubber for the slings, but am going to wait to tackle that until I secure some metric nut drivers.
Not sure if it was this thread or the other but some one mentioned the fact that in TBL when the timers stop, it actually means the mode is over. Unlike in modern sterns where there is usually a 3-5 second grace period where you can make another shot.
I'm conflicted over this.
How do you feel about it?
It really is a different mindset playing the game. I play my ST/TWD all the time knowing that I can still make some magic happen even when the clock runs out. I have to mentally prepare myself now before playing TBL that 0 means 0.
TBL seems correct on the surface, but I've just been trained to play the other way.
I think I prefer having the grace period.
Quoted from r6emperor:
There is a "grace period" setting in the menu. Not sure what it is for, but mine is set at 3 seconds. I didn'tchange anything so that must be the default
I certainly haven't changed that setting. Maybe it's not functional yet. Or maybe only applies to certain features.
Currently, I've turned the upper flipper power down to 1 above the lowest setting.
The left diverter to the lowest.
And the reg flippers to 1 from the highest.
Also, some more intel on the tilt situation. After a tilt, I lose most sound and lights on the following ball. However, starting either a character mb or bowling mode will bring everything back.
Quoted from sd_tom:
Question for the people with games: when you do the rug skill shot (left flipper) ; where does the ball end up? At 6.8 degrees pitch I got SDTM every time. At 6.6 it hits the very tip of flipper and not too controllable. Wondering what I'm aiming for (left or right flipper?) If I start adjusting ball guide?
Not sure what my pitch is, but the ball comes around to the tip of the left flipper. I can't just hold the flipper up or let it dead bounce, need to flip.
Quoted from BigLebowski:
can you explain what you mean by "stacking White Russians" and "collecting White Russians". All I figured out so far is that I get a bonus for hitting all 4 WR targets on the right side and a callout "White Russian for you, Dude". What else is there I need to know about them?
I also haven´t figured out much about the "car mode". I know I get it lit by twice hitting the two targets on the upper playfield. And then the car comes out when I shoot the ball into the hole on the upper playfield. But I´m totally lost on what to do then. Hit the car as often as possible? When does the car move back again? Is there a timer involved?
Maybe we should open a rules thread on TBL because this one here gets also cluttered with all kinds of other stuff?
My TBL is still waiting for a few parts from Barry incl. a new slingshot plastic. One broke already thanks to the too strong coils that were built into the first TBLs. When I removed the broken slingshot plastic I noticed that there weren´t any washers underneath them and the underside of the plastic was already pretty scratched by the rough edges of the posts it´s sitting on. Anyone else noticed that they forgot the washers?
Collect the WR ingredients, you hear the callout. At that point, all the WR inserts in front of each shot begin to blink. Which ever one you hit, activates that WR for 2X for that shot. It seems like you get 5-6 shots at 2X and then the light goes out.
When he's talking about stacking the WR, he's meaning that if you could then re qualify WR by collecting the ingredients again, and then again hitting the same shot you already have running at 2X to turn it into 3X. Currently this isn't possible. Currently once you qualify a WR again, you have to hit another one of the blinking WR shots (The active one is lit solid).
Most of the rules at this point are pretty basic.
The rug modes are basically worthless and can't be stacked with anything. I think you get like 200,000k for completing them. The only reason at this point to even try for the rug modes is just to see and hear them.
I think the base structure they have built up is going to lead to fun rules, but currently I think the game is boring.
Mark it Zero shots are about the only thing close currently.
The inlanes spell ZERO. Once complete you have x Seconds(20 I think) to hit the left vuk. You need to do this 5-6 times to complete the Mark It Zero insert. You get a little extra bonus currently for each MiZ you complete. Not sure if you get anything for hitting them all, haven't done it yet.
Quoted from BigLebowski:
thanks for the explanation. I figure I´ll have to play a bit more.
Have you also figured out the car mode?
And yes, I agree, the gameplay gets kind of boring after a while......
I believe the car mode is just hit the car a bunch of times at this point. Haven't really paid attention to it much though. I know I've completed a couple, I'll have to pay more attention and report back.
Quoted from Time:
Want to sell it? I'd love an achiever edition
I've waited 3 years for it to show up. Another year waiting for code isn't that big a deal.
Just was hoping for more fun out of the box.
The rules are basically Meidevel Madness meets Whitewater. Both of which I'm a fan. Unfortunately currently both those games are more fun right now.
I think it's going to get there, but at the moment it's lacking. There aren't any big scoring opportunities. I think even with just some scoring tweaks the game would be much better.
Anyways, going to hang onto it for now.
Quoted from colonel_caverne:
i would like to know what is the quality of the playfield, clear coating, mech, ramps etc? can we compare to Stern or JPP? does it feel cheap or not?
it's difficult to have a fair opinion from videos or pics. thx
Game looks amazing, and feels solid all around. At least on par with Stern and JJP.
Communication with DP has been very good as well. Myself and some others are having an issue with the diverter. DP has re-engineered the piece and is sending a replacement.
The screen is excellent, as is the sound and lighting.
Definitely does not feel cheap in any way.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:
With #30 first in line for the next container, and 42 games being shipped this time, the next lot will include at least up thru #71 and probably beyond as a number of the games in between will most likely be going to non-North American customers.
For their sake, I hope that DP brings something to Expo (i.e. games to play with more advanced code, news of stepped up production and deliveries, etc.) to help rejuvenate some of the excitement about TBL that has been lost since its initial debut at the show 2 years ago.
#30 is sitting in my living room.
72, you made the cut!
Quoted from BC_Gambit:
They are making about 8ish a week (I can't remember exactly, sorry!) reported from the Vancouver Flipout seminar. Obviously this can change, and is only a half remembered number on my part. Hopefully someone was taking notes .
I do clearly remember Jaap clearly stating he and his partner were personally testing each game to make sure it was working right. The focus right now was quality, not speed. No sense rushing out half assed games that suck up more time in support.
I do have two questions regarding TBL; the flippers on the (from what I was told) proto game at the Vancouver flipout stayed energized for much longer than I would expect. Basically I could move my hand (quickly) more than 2 feet away from the cabinet and the a cradled ball would remain motionless on an upright flipper as if I was still pressing the button.
Is this fixed on the newer versions of this machine? It made ball separation and other flipper tricks much harder than any other game I have played.
Also, the right ramp seems impossible to shoot from a cradled ball, is this fixed on the newer games? This was way too steep!
Other than these two issues, TBL seems really well put together and the software seemed legit. It did not look or feel like a homebrew game (nothing against homebrews!). It reminded me of the 90's heyday sort of games in terms of rules, and playfield feel.
I liked it, it put a smile on my face. I look forward to seeing it again with the 1.0 software apparently coming out in several weeks!
I have turned my flipper power up (1 below max I believe) and that shot is possible. Was difficult at stock. I'm sure leveling plays into this as well.
The only other issue I have flipper wise is that post passing is difficult because my flippers don't drop as fast as my sterns. Maybe this is similar to what you are referring to? I wasn't sure if it was something that could be possibly fixed with a switch adjustment though.
Quoted from genex:
Also if you tilt, then the next player plays their next ball with no music, but the music starts up on the following player.
Nice to have this confirmed. I reported that here weeks ago and apparently no one else tilts their pins.
A little more info for the curious.
Default tilt warnings are set to 3 which I found odd. I've changed that back down to 2.
If you start any of the modes or mb's, you usually get your sound and lights back during that ball.
My upper flipper stopped working during game play. It works in test mode. Am going to dig in later. Anyone have any insight to what I should looking for? Flipper moves smoothly by hand. Gave some of the wires a look and the solder points seem good.
Quoted from Concretehardt:
I was worried about this issue when I got my game (#19) but my diverter has always worked flawlessly. Was this only an issue on the first few games produced?
Nope. I have #30 and it has always had diverter issues.
Sorry bemmet, I haven't gotten around to installing the new piece they sent me.
Quoted from sd_tom:
Ok I just installed it finally in mine. It does fix things for me. While my filing out the holes kept the diverter within the ramp channel, it did nothing for the diverter ramming the plastic . This new flap addresses both for me. However, you can't default to letting it rest on the screws anymore , it will be too low and fall out the bottom. So fiddled a bit with not too low (too high would be challenging at this point).. screws are about middle of slot. Diverter now hits coil stop before bottom of diverter even hits my felt dot I had put over plastic (so, prob 2-3mm gap now). And would also add with the diverter flap not being the coil stop anymore, vibration overall is down.
Did you take off the ramp?
Any thing tricky I should look out for?
Just replaced my left diverter. Surprise, surprise, still doesn't work.
Someone earlier was asking about the sizing of the replacement vs the original. Here are a couple pictures.
The replacement is on the top in the first image, and bottom on the second.
Anyway, unfortunately after replacing, the diverter is still getting stuck in the down position. However, originally I thought it was just getting stuck underneath the ramp. The new design seems to be preventing that, but yet it's still sticking. When manually moving the diverter, it does not move smoothly. I'm thinking at this point it has to be either the coil or the coil sleeve. Anyone want to chime in if that seems like a decent conclusion? Unfortunately I don't have any extra coils, or sleeves around.
Quoted from pinghetto:
I don't have my game yet... But, I doubt it's the coil or sleeve. Have you tried moving (slightly bending) the coil bracket when the diverter is stuck? To see if the plunger releases or moves easier. Sounds like maybe an alignment issue.
Now that you say that, when moving it by hand it does feel like it's catching the sides. That'll be the next thing I look into.
My diverter replacement had the exact same curve. They sit flush on top of each other when I hold them together.
While my issue is still unresolved, I think the new diverter is an improvement. With it in place, I don't think it will be the issue any longer. The original diverter would go below the ramp and then slightly shift and not be able to go back up because it was getting hung up on the ramp. With the new diverter, I was able to mount it such that when it is either in the up or the down position, one of the little nubs on the end are still protruding through the ramp so as to guide it on the return.
Unfortunately, the diverter is still getting stuck in the down position. I did some more investigating last night, and it does seem to be getting hung up either on the coil bracket, the lane guide, or potentially even rubbing against the playfield itself. My lane guide was already destroyed from the diverter arm smashing down into it, and DP sent me a replacement with my new diverter. I did try to adjust the coil bracket as suggested, but it doesn't have much play to it, and didn't seem to improve anything.
At this point I want to just take the ramp off to get a good look at the whole thing, but am having difficulty deciding the right way to do it. The plastic portion of the ramp looks like it is just secured with 4 screws. 2 at the entrance of the ramp, which aren't an issue, and 2 screws at the back attaching it to the piece that lets the ball travel under the playfield. After those are out, I think I'd be able to slide it off the metal habitrail. The issue is the screws at the back have nuts on the bottom that are very difficult to get to. Basically, I think I could get them off, but am not particularly confident I would be able to get them back on.
Anyone take their ramp off have any tips on the procedure?
Quoted from bemmett:
It is hard to explain but I will warn you, I scratched the living hell out of my ramp getting it off and on and trying to make this diverter work. There is this metal post/tab thing in the back that hold the ramp steady and it scratches it bad removing and putting it back on repeatedly. So much that I insisted Barry send me a new one(which he kindly did agree to). This has been one of the more frustrating "fixes" I have done and eventually just gave up, put the old one back on until I can work with Barry and DP to find a better/correct solution
Not exactly the reassuring answer I was looking for.
I took another look last night and see what your talking about though. Once that piece is out I'll definitely have more room to menauver. I have confidence I'll be able to get the ramp back together with the right equipment. I had only previously bought a set of metric nut drivers and a little 7mm combo wrench. Looks like the nuts on the bottom of the ramp are 6mm. Going to pick up a 6mm combo tonight and give it a go.
This whole ordeal has been terrible. I really hope DP gets their crap together and cranks out some nice code. Never would have thought my favorite moments with the game would have been the time waiting for it(before it was delayed). Still trying to remain positive, but I only have space for 4 pins, and as of right now this one is the front runner to leave.
Anyway, for those of you still waiting. At a minimum, get yourself a 7mm nut driver and or combo wrench. Most of the bolts on the top side are that size. Most of the remaining things you will need to adjust are phillips head screws or allen bolts. The 6mm nut that I'm about to remove under the ramp seems to be the only place that size is used.
Diverter battle rages on.
I have the ramp out, and have fully pulled the mech. It all seems to function mechanically fine by hand, but when using in test mode, the diverter continues to stay in the down position. When depressing it by hand, it seems to catch ever so slightly when its against the coil stop.
Managed to get the plastic portion of the ramp out without removing the habitrail. Removed 4 screws, and removed the ramp support piece. Then slid the plastic part off of the habitrail. Didn't feel great about it. I think I'll probably just pull the habitrail when reassembling to make things a little more maneuverable.
Could it be magnetized?
I pulled the coil sleeve when I had it apart. Looks fine. Everything put back together smoothly.
For those keeping track at home, the nut on the screws that attach to the ramp at the top ended up being 5.5 mm.
Of course 5.5mm was the one size I didn't have.
I'm taking a break from the battle for now. I guess my next step will be to pull it back apart and see if either the arm or the stop seem magnetized.
My diverter issue at this point seems to be within the coil assembly itself. I have the whole thing apart and out of the machine so it's just the arm going into the coil. When I activate it in test mode, the arm still gets stuck in the down position. I've tried cutting the power while it's stuck down and it stays down, which I believe means my issue is mechanical.
Problem is when pushing in the arm by hand it never sticks. From doing some reading on here, my next guess is that maybe one of the brackets isn't quite aligned right. Going to keep investigating this weekend. Would really like to get this resolved before some new code drops.
Quoted from gliebig:
Is the lower bowling alley fun? Is it more of a novelty or is there good points to be earned by getting strikes/completing frames?
I agree with bemmet. It is certainly a cool piece of engineering, looks good in the game, and obviously goes great with the theme. However, as far as fun goes, after you do it once or twice, it's not so exciting.
Diverter saga update:
The diverter arm is most certainly magnetized.
So now the question is, what to do?
I read through these threads:
Seems options are demagnetize, buy new arm, or put a piece of tape on the stop.
I put some electrical tape on the coil stop. It definitely helps. Seems like this is the fake answer and I should probably go one of the other routes.
I guess the correct nomenclature for that part is a plunger, opposed to an arm.
I've got an email into DP for a recommendation on how to proceed.
Sure would be nice if I had a manual with some part numbers in it.
Quoted from bemmett:
I'm lost on what issue yours is, I'm just having problems with the replacement diverter arm not fitting/working where it is supposed to at all. The old one works, just has those hangups. Seems you have some larger problem? I have a call with Barry his weekend and hoping to get some more resolution.
When my diverter is activated, either in the game or in test mode, it gets stuck in the down position.
Originally part of the problem was because the diverter flap was getting stuck under the ramp. The new flap they sent out prevented the flap from getting stuck, but the plunger would still remain down.
I took the whole thing apart and found that the plunger itself is magnetized, and I'm guessing that is what was keeping it against the coil stop.
I put some electrical tape on the coil stop, and that seems to help when moving the plunger manually, but I haven't hooked it back up to power to try it in test mode yet.
Got the diverter working!
The diverter plunger and the coil stop bracket were becoming magnetized.
I was able to demagnetize the pieces using my stove top, but after energizing the mech the pieces would remagnetize.
I ended up putting a piece of electrical tape on the coil stop and that kept the plunger from sticking to the stop. I'm guessing this will only be a temporary fix, but for the time being, everything is working correctly.
Bring on the code!
Looks like a solid update.
I'm glad they updated the White Russian Multipliers. Should be able to put up some more serious scores with that in place.
Quoted from bemmett:
I don't think a lot has changed in regards t this but I really hope to see the character multiballs change a lot rather than just hitting their shot over and over again for small jackpots. Some kind of progressed "story" mode for each(sort of like rug modes) with varying shots would be much more interesting. They are so bland and boring right now. To even further on that, stacking them together could be different "story modes" as each character had unique interactions with one another(I.E - Donny and Walter would Have a Shut the $uc& up Donny mode), (Dude and Maude have baby thing), etc, etc.
I just want to see those Character modes have much more to them!
This sounds like a fun idea, but also seems like it could be difficult to balance the scoring.
I agree that they do need to be improved though.
This update seems like a step in the right direction. I also find it encouraging that they are only calling it .48. That implies to me there is much more to come.
Quoted from bemmett:
Possible bug report on .48 update. I have never had this game reset before in hundreds of games, started the main multiball from left ramp and game shut down/restarted randomly. Didn't have any other modes running that I know of.
I've only got a few games in so far, but have definitely started mb a couple times without issue. I'll keep an eye on it.
I'm sure the fortunate few of us who have games aren't a primary concern, but what is this going to mean for support for the existing pins?
Sounds like things could be significantly different.
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