I want to buy one.
If anyone has been in business for themselves long enough you’ll deal with a vendor who goes bankrupt, you’re screwed out of a lot of money. Another issue is someone just doesn’t pay their bills... governments provides laws to protect these business so they can hopefully resume operation and save jobs. If you think this situation is unique to pinball you’re just flat out being dumb. This is business and for anyone to call for a boycott wow that is really dumb. Anytime a business goes under, there are a hundred people lined up at the auction, while many other vendors are left holding unpaid bills. This is part of the business world and unfortunately in a democracy this stuff happens.
People are going to buy the games because they have the money and they want them. If not you someone else. Again calling for a boycott is just stupid. Do I feel bad, sorry for those who got burned oh yeah 110%. I’ve been burned for over 100k from a China amusement park, was I pissed damn straight. I learned from that experience however, and after getting burned 2 or 3 times I said nope not anymore. I changed how I do business, how I pay for something and this whole ordeal and other deals like it IE: Magic Girl, you need to learn from it and not repeat those mistakes. Dwelling on it won’ t solve cancer.
This is business nothing more nothing less. Yes some people got burned in the process but that is out of their control once it goes to a judge. This is what it is and you either accept it and move on or you can cry about it. I think Coin Taker is doing the entire fan base a favor for grabbing these games and trying to get them to people who put down deposits first. Kudo’s to cointaker.
They seem pretty transparent about the whole deal. Again kudos to coin taker. I would say this either coin taker is doing this deal or another company is for sure... at least coin taker is an honest company who’s looking out for the best interest of everyone.
Buy one or turn your attention to another game. But the people who do buy them do not in any way shape form or fashion deserve your scorn your wrath its their money, and none of your business. Period.
People should celebrate that 40 more games will be out in the market, and should bring the price of these games down somewhat. You might see a few land in pincades another great thing. Most people in pinball can’t afford to pay 12500 for a damn game, but they can afford a few quarters to enjoy it. Getting 40 more machines in the market and the hopes of a few hundred more behind it should be a great day. This is really one of the greatest pins ever made, hidden away in some rich guys basement doesn’t give the pinball fanatics the opportunity to enjoy it. Based on this move more people will see the game, enjoy the game and maybe own one at some point. I’m stoked!!!
Quoted from pinghetto:
What a God damn stupid thing to say. For so many reasons.
I am FAR from rich. And love to share my games and beer with my friends and other pin folks.
I don't think you understand what I was saying, maybe because you can't read I'm not sure. But I think what I said very very clearly was, if BL is only buried in some rich guys basement because the very handful of people who do already own them, never sell them, so they never end up in a pincade near you, then you can't enjoy them. So the upside is with 40 more games hitting the streets, good chance a handful will end up at pinball shows, and pincades, rather than in some rich guys basement never seeing the light of day. How is that the 'GOD DAMN stupid thing to say'. If you didn't understand what I said maybe you could ask for some clarification rather than being a God Damn stupid poster. Just saying.
Quoted from NPO:
Always entertaining to watch two guys with nearly 70 games between the two of them - total worth of both collections combined at around $350K (averaging $5K per game which some surely aren't and some certainly are over) - mention that they're either not rich or that "most" people can't afford $12.5K for a single pinball machine.
Really puts things in perspective. I don't know whether to laugh or cry softly.
I'm not arguing with him, I merely state that having 40 more machines out there is a good thing not a bad one. So some points are shread those games and have a boycott that is really stupid comment. Yeah lets get everyone on pinside to have a boycott, but guess what those games are still getting sold. As I pointed out Coin Taker is doing a solid to all the previous customers, good for them! You should be happy someone is looking out for those people best they can, but its true not everyone can afford 12,500 dollars. What is that a misstatement? Tell me why is some people offering those games prior to this for even more... should we boycott those people? This is all super silly. Secondly the value of my collection has nothing to do with how much money I might have or how much I don't. I bought a lot of games not for my 50 million dollar mansion, which was my point. I have escape rooms where we have 14 games on site for people to play while they wait. We only charge 50 cents a game, do you know how long it will take me to get my money back on these games? Try I'll be dead first. I also own a haunted house and inside the exit we have another 14 horror themed games on display again 50 cents. I think you missed the point totally with your ridiculous comments... maybe some people like me just maybe will buy it and put it out there for others to enjoy!!!! That was the only point!
Quoted from highdef:
Do you actually know who bought each game and where they will end up?
Here is what I know, as I pointed out this is out of your hands, this was a court ruling. What happened before doesn't matter anymore. This is part of the business World we live in and unfortunately sometimes its very unfair. Do I feel bad for people who lost some money on this game, or Magic Girl or the countless other start up machines? Oh yes I do but what does that have to do with Coin Taker doing the best they can to put those people first. Nothing. Not one damn thing. Fact is people calling for boycotts, that is ridiculous totally and utterly. Some people think with passion first, rather than common sense that is a simple fact.
Quoted from cooked71:
Ok, that blows my theory out of the water. No way these last 40 would sell for enough to cover all DP liabilities
The one thing I've learned about pinside is very few and I mean very few people on this website seldom if ever know facts. Lets go with everyone including all the podcasts seldom have facts. Heck Kanda said he was 110% positive CG was producing Aliens, and they're not. CG can't even ship out Monster Bash's much less take on Aliens. I'm not saying every statement is wrong, but I would say about 80% of the rumors, that people spread as facts are WRONG!
Does this guy have a copy of lawsuits, order forms, does he actually know how many people paid in full based on some documentation or just something he read somewhere that was also probably wrong. Fact is this website is filled with so much Fake News it makes CNN look like the most reliable source of information again. LOL
I wouldn't believe even 20% of the stuff people post on here, when they say something is a fact they mean opinion!
Don't believe them without hard documentation.
This website is at its best when they're helping other people with problems about their games, and not delving into fake news, slandering companies, and worse.
Wrong! The game is awesome despite all the legal issues that came before. People want the game, hence why we've seen some people trying to sell their games for close to 20k. I couldn't believe when I heard Stern was trying to sell Beatles for 25k that seemed totally crazy, but who are we to judge how someone else spends what they make, even though Pinside does it daily.
If Big Lebowski goes back into production there will be a line out of the door to buy it because the game is good. If Black Knight goes out of production I doubt anyone will care because the game is not filled with amazing shots, lower playfields, upper playfields, amazing artwork and most importantly based on the #1 rated Cult Classic of ALL TIME!
Look at any list BL is rated the #1 Cult Classic of all time, this coupled with the fact that the game is awesome is why people will be lined up to buy it.
Here is a reality check for the passion based closed minded people around here... when don't you get reality here? How many start up pinball companies have failed and failed like a two trains colliding? Don't blame those companies blame yourself for buying into something that is not proven. The stock market is the same way you take risks every time you invest in a new company, you took the risk. Blame yourself!
A better plan is WHEN YOU HAVE MY GAME READY TO SHIP I'll give you a CREDIT CARD! Why? Because when they don't ship you have some recourse ... is that to hard to understand?
Why do so many people hammer at JJP, they're doing everything they say they will do, and so does Stern, and even if Spooky is slow, or Chicago Gaming is slow, they still deliver. Order from those guys until a new company can prove themselves. That is just business 101!
Buyers should take some blame for trusting people with NO TRACK record. Use a Credit card so you have recourse. End of story. I can tell you this situation isn't unique to pinball not even close. Every single industry has these problems, where people get burned, and I see people all the time say I'm not putting my hand over an open flame again. They order from companies they trust, or they use a credit card. Pinball people need to stop getting excited about a new start up company, wanting to be first in line, and lay down a bunch of money, without knowing without any doubt this company can deliver on their promises. I think people have good intentions but they learn the hard way they are in over their head. This isn't unique this is just business.
Coin Taker deserves a lot of credit for getting 40 more machines out into the pinball world for people to enjoy! Not scorn! This thread is ridiculous!
Quoted from cooked71:
Come on - Cointaker don't deserve any credit.
They do because they tried to reach out first to the people with deposits. They could just sell to the highest bidder and considering some people have tried to sell these games in the past close to 20k I think they're being pretty fair! 12,500 for a pinball is a lot no doubt but supply and demand could drive the price even higher, but they're reaching out to those people first. I say that earns respect.
In my honest opinion no pinball game is worth over 10k no game no matter how rare it’s just a pinball game. On the other hand everything is worth what someone is willing to pay. Again I love the game feel bad for everyone screwed over by the countless start up pinball companies. Selling these 40 games opens wounds but it should also serve as a reminder not to support companies with no track record I would never even trust buying a game from someone in another state much less another country. Put cash down as u load it into ur truck. With all that being said I’m happy if some of these games end up at pinball shows and or pincades that is better than never seeing the game or a boycott
No one should give a pinball company pre-order money ever again. That policy works for the company but not the customer. Just say never again no how tempting. If a company doesn’t have enough money to manufacture good reason not to trust them
Quoted from Coindork:
No shit, thats like advising somebody to look both ways after they have already been hit by a car.
Okay thanks you're so damn smart that's obvious, smarter than me clearly because I would have never thought that was so obvious! LOL
But answer me a quick question. Why do people keep doing it?
It isn't just one game we're talking about here its multiple!
Quoted from RTS:
Nope, the game isn't as awesome as the resale price has fooled you into believing.
I've played the game and here would be my quick take:
Theming: Perfect. You couldn't theme the game any better, they really incorporated the theme of the movie into the game.
Playfield: Look at what you're seeing from stern lately and compare it to this... its a masterpiece. It has an upper and lower playfield. How many games ever made within the last 10 years could claim that?
Artwork: Its a bowling movie so only so much could be done, its not star wars. For the theme I think its great.
License: It's considered the #1 Cult Classic movie of all time. So I would give it another A plus!
They incorporated clips from the movie into the game perfectly, there just isn't a single knock on the game itself other than the biggest one...
Can you get parts, will the game hold up, support for the game, code updates, blah, blah... that is the F in the room.
So where does this game sit? It probably needs to be a collector game, with limited playing time. If it ends up in a pincade I would only do that if the person running that pincade is a master at fixing pinball games. I would not consider myself in that category so for me its home use only.
The game is good, the theme is fun, the interest is high because of what a great job they did with the game. As with all of these companies there is going to be risks in buying them, because their company might not offer long term support.
Many props and cons but the game if it never breaks is a home run!
Quoted from genex:
I have put mine on route and it gets heavy heavy plays. My friend TJ operates it for me as he's one of the best operators and techs in our area. The parts are all standard so that's not too much an issue. Other stuff that has broken is the subway which was made of perforated metal. Some other design features TJ had provided input to Dutch about and were incorporated into the Xytech protos that help the game survive better on route. Weirdly enough the game doesn't have audits for # of games played so I don't know that but can infer from the other audits and earnings how much it was played and I think it was probably the most heavily played TBL out there. After initial issues TJ got things smoothed out and it worked pretty well under heavy & regular play.
I would call that a vote of confidence thanks for posting that!!! Very helpful!
Quoted from bane:
I am unaware of a ranking of “cult classic” movies. Could you provide a reference? If such truly exists, is it the “definitive” ranking of said films? Can you define a “cult classic” (questionable capitalization omitted here), as I am unaware of what films qualify?
Your post is totally and utterly ridiculous. Anyone and I mean anyone can search for top 25 cult movies, top 25 ranked cult movies, blah, blah... Big Lebowski comes up #1 or in the top 10 on nearly every single list. Instead of acting like a weirdo why don't you just do the search yourself.
There is no such thing as a definitive list because all lists no matter who makes them are their own opinions. However nearly if not all lists created have Big Lebowski as their #1 to top 10 film. Secondly, there is a website called 'ranker' where people can vote so if we call that 'definitive' because everyone can vote. Oh since you're acting super weird and lazy I did it for you... https://www.ranker.com/list/cult-movies-and-films/reference
Whoops Big Lebowski is #1 imagine that!
Since you can't seem to look up 'cult classic' here is the wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_film if reading is something you're capable of maybe you'll take the time to read it yourself.
Unlike you I actually try to post facts not fiction not make believe. When I said Big Lebowski is considered the #1 cult classic movie of all time I guess I knew exactly what I was talking about. had you put out some effort you could have seen that for yourself.
Since we're on the topic of is Big Lebowski a good theme or not...
Its listed on Ranker as the #1 Cult Classic movie of all time!
Ranker also lists Big Lebowski as the 14th best comedy of all time.
I think its a pretty good theme and beloved film by many. Its a cult classic because it was discovered on cable, dvd, or just simply after its theatrical run, which wasn't great. The film has a very loyal fan base, and now they just announced a sequel based on the character 'Jesus'.
Other movies ranked under 'comedy' that would make great themes for pinball: Airplane #2 - Caddyshack #6 - Animal House #7 - #11 Vacation #12 Young Frankenstein #18 Blues Brothers
Cult Classics that would be great pinball games on ranker: #3 Blade Runner #9 Psycho #11 Lost Boys #14 Army of Darkness
Rolling Stones list of top Cult Classics has Big Lebowski #2 behind Rocky Horror https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-lists/readers-poll-the-25-best-cult-movies-of-all-time-18696/2-the-big-lebowski-38531/
Some guy on another thread totally embarrassed himself by stating something like 'lets face it JJP is a niche company like Spooky'. LOL A niche company doesn't sell 5000 plus copies of WOZ, or license stuff like Toy Story. Get the point?
However I've been saying that companies like American Pinball, need to get off this original pinball theme kick, otherwise they're never getting out of the batters box. I think that company has potential but take my word for it Octoberfest if its lucky will sell 150 copies. Now they're talking about doing even more original themes but based on classic public domain characters. This won't work either because nobody and I mean NOBODY wants a Robin hood pinball. LOL
American Pinball should go after these niche classic licenses because they would be cheap, and the fanbase behind them would go crazy for the game. American Pinball should become the KING of NICHE just like Chicago is the king of remakes. They could announce a game and they would pre sell everything within days of the announced title.
Friday the 13th will sell 750 copies - Rocky Horror Picture Show the following is massive and would sell 750 copies easy - Halloween, Army of Darkness, Airplane, the list goes on and on.
I wish American Pinball would look into this direction because if they did we'd have a serious contender on our hands, because I think they do a great job with theming. They just need to license something that they can make money on selling 1000 or less machines.
Did anyone see this?
Let me be super clear NO PINBALL GAME IS WORTH $30,000 no matter how rare! There is no way this person is selling this game for 30k no way in hell! Being an opportunist is perfectly legal in the USA, however to me anyone this is in the category of the goof asking for 50k for a back to the future. LOL
Quoted from Coindork:
I would just like to reiterate my above post "$12,500 can apparently buy you a machine, but it can't buy you class.
Do you watch pawn stars? What do they do in every single show? They buy stuff for less than its worth to flip. What do car lots do... they offer you less for your car than its worth so they can resell it for a profit. What do banks do... they loan you money for a house and when its all said and done they get back like three times the investment. The list goes on... its a pinball game.
If you ran across a barn find classic car, wouldn't you buy it if you knew you could flip it for a ton more? If you heard thru a friend that some guy has a pinball machine in their basement they want removed... wouldn't you go take a look hoping it was some mint condition big bang bar? If the guy said yeah just want to move out this old thing, then said I'd take 1500 are you going to seriously turn around and say no let me get you 15,000.
We have to keep things in perspective here... its a pinball game. If people want to buy them, and flip them there is nothing you can do about it.
Life goes on! I will say people should buy the game because they want the game, I want the game. But people can do whatever they want its their choice.
I will say this however until I'm dead NO PINBALL is worth $30k, just like Beatles isn't worth 25k. But if some really dumb people pay it oh well... the world is full of dumb people. LOL
Quoted from Spelunk71:
It’s just Kaneda trolling for a reaction (and maybe an actual offer) using that ridiculous $30,000 Facebook listing as inspiration. Either way, it’s pretty crass and disrespectful to those who got burned.
He may or may not have put that on ebay. I honestly don't care because I'm going to focus on what I do not what some moron puts up for sale on ebay. Just like the guy who tried to sell Back to the Future on ebay for 50k. That was a joke!
He said it was part of Hollywood history!
NO PINBALL GAME IS WORTH 30K! PERIOD!
It won't sell!
As for Kaneda, I think he likes getting a rise out of people. I've said this before he knows no more than the average person, he's doing a podcast because honestly he enjoys doing it. He's not getting rich doing it that's for sure. People have the option listen or don't listen either way it doesn't change how much money he makes from his real job. The more controversial he is the more people listen just like Fake News CNN or MSNBC the more outrageous they get with their Trump news, they hope that will turn into ratings. Do you think Rachel Maddow really believes half the stuff she puts on the air? Shock jocks like Howard Stern get ratings from being controversial ... Kaneda enjoys this. C'mon hasn't anyone figured that out yet.
Quoted from Monk:
This DP situation would be more like buying stolen goods off the street for a substantial discount and selling to the public for a profit.
I totally see your point and its a valid one. I was just trying to make the example of the people who have them now buying for 12.5 and selling them for whatever more. That was my point. Taking advantage of an opportunity that almost every single person on pinside has probably done multiple times over and would do again. You can't be upset with someone who saw an opportunity then tried to maximize on it, otherwise we're all hypocrites.
On your side however I understand where you're coming from totally. I would only say that the people you should be mad at are the people who made those 40 games or whatever and never shipped them. Why didn't they ship them if they had them... I know its a long story, lawsuits, and everything between.
I totally feel for every single person who got screwed. I myself have been screwed several times and there is nothing that feels good about it. However the old saying goes what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I changed how I do business after getting burned a few times for six figures. If I lose a job in the future so be it, I'm not going back to getting burned ever again. I wouldn't buy a machine from a company in Europe, much less a company who has no track record. It seems like it ends up the same way every single time... someone getting screwed.
There is a term I've learned in the pinball community... CASH ON THE GLASS! When you have the game ready to ship call me I'll pay you with a credit card... so once I don't see the game come in I can reverse the charge. This industry is full of people who're trying to con people... cash on the glass. Its the only way going forward I think when you don't trust the manufacturer either put the cash on the glass and take it away or using a credit card. NO CHECKS should be given to a manufacturer who just doesn't have the track record. Sad but its simply true. I just sent JJP a check for Wonka, I just gave a check to Schaffer Dist for my JW I just ordered. I trust those people... some company in Europe no way in HELL!
Quoted from Monk:
no problem buying the stolen goods off the street
I can tell you I think people who buy known stolen items for resale are scum bags... just as bad as stealing it yourself.
The Big Lebowski games aren't stolen. That is your perspective but legally it was not stolen. There was a lawsuit and a company I guess a creditor I don't know the whole story ended up with assets and sold them. Does it suck for those who had money in on the game ONE MILLION PERCENT! But the people who're buying them now didn't steal them. What should have happened is all the people with money in should have been added to that lawsuit to put a claim on those assets.
The end result is very unfair outcome without a doubt. No one is debating that. Terrible horrible situation. But this happens to companies all the time, and assets go up for sale after the fact. The whole thing sucks I know and I agree but we can't be saying the people buying them now are stealing them. That isn't the case.
Here is what i would do and its not gripping at the people who're buying from cointaker... get all those customers together, and file a lawsuit against the company who sold those assets and I don't mean cointaker. The company who won those assets thru a legal settlement should be sued as a creditor. That lawsuit can still be filed, and I would file it asap. They got 500,00k and you deserve to get some of that money.
You need one attorney representing all the screwed customers. That is your recourse not bashing on the people who bought the assets legally.
Quoted from Bearcat:
$19.99 shipping is a nice touvch...
You have to admit that is funny. This whole conversation has been so serious, that ebay listing makes things a lot more light hearted.
C'mon you have admit that is funny.
Heck if someone paid me 100k for Big Lebowski I would ship it FREE.
I'll go one further, I'll pay you back, $10k to ship.
Its funny no matter how you look at it.
Seriously though... what is the highest price a pinball game has ever sold for? Does anyone know?
Did anyone see the Big Lebowski game go up for sale for 45k? Person just signed up today ... can someone say Kaneda?
So he's gone from 100,000 plus $19.95 shipping to 80 something thousands now we're looking at 45k.
This brings up an interesting discussion... what do you think its worth? What would someone actually pay? $20k? 25K? More less what?
I don't think ANYONE is going to pay $45k that just isn't going to happen. I have the game and if someone wants to pay me $40k SOLD! LOL
How much do you realistically think someone would pay?
Quoted from mavantix:
NIB is a bit risky too, you have no idea if there's damage inside or if it works, and good luck getting parts, like a board or custom plastic? I guess ads like that are fishing for a millionaire..</blockquote
On the flip side if you found some un-opened baseball card packs and you knew the possibility was there to get a super rare rookie card, you wouldn't open the pack. If someone isn't sure they want the game they shouldn't take it out of the box. Just a thought.
According to the ad it is from Denmark, which makes it a one of one edition from when Dutch Pinball was in Denmark and not the Netherlands.
The persons state says Texas. Brand new account just opened today. It could be anyone. In Kaneda case he doesn't have an account so he would need someone to list it for him. I'm assuming its him because of the absurd price, but it at least appears to be a fishing price, see what bites.
Personally I think people will pay 25k if they really want it . At the same time if they make 50 more which I was told is possible, then the price is 12,500 and thats it. Who knows.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:
Seems 40 people thought it was worth 12,500
No ... there was 40 people who jumped at the chance to buy one for $12,500. If it sold out in 30 seconds then obviously the price could have been much higher. What if they said the price was $15,000 I think all 40 would still be sold. What if they said $20 or $25k would they all sell... I think the answer is NO! However I think 10 would, 8 would, just because people paid 12,500 to buy them means nothing to establish the value.
The real question is are their people out there willing to pay 20 to 25k or more for the game? If so how many?
I have this game, I wonder if I should keep it or sell it. If someone is willing to pay 25K I guess I would sell.
I can't wait to see how many people are willing to pay over 20k for this game. I guess we'll find out.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside