New York, NY
Anybody know if any of these will be on location in Amsterdam or Utrecht next month?
How about at spirit coffee house?
(Topic ID: 115360)
Linked Games
The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016
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9 months later
Quoted from frolic:Can someone post the ARA email?
OK, so Dutch is tits up.
Kinda reminds me of the early 90s talk show wars when they started dropping out.
If Dutch is Chevy Chase, who is Arsenio?
I gotta say, in all seriousness, I LOVE the Dutch. Literally every Dutch person I know is tall, good looking, smart, and has a good sense of humor. I've never done any business with them, but I enjoy their company and their country!
I'll be there for a week in June, as usual, just soaking in the Dutchness. And the Kush.
Quoted from o-din:It's sounding more and more like this whole project is getting the rug pulled out from underneath it.
Which is dangerous because it was really holding the room together.
You probably don't have much serotonin left after years of abuse...but it's simply the rush people get when they "pre-order" something. Sure they don't have it, they are out $9000, but they are still "owners."
Quoted from spfxted:People are very forgiving! If DP just comes on here…comes clean, explains the situation and options, many would be ready to help.
And if my grandmother had wheels she would be a wagon!
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:Nobody knows how strong Stern's future is and that includes Stern.
We all know that if Stern were to go out of business, it would mean there's not a single manufacturer of pinball machines left. They are as close to a blue chip as we have.
Quoted from metallik:If Stern were to suddenly go titsup, sales and talent would quickly migrate to JJP, Heighway, Spooky, etc. Stern is not the only manufacturer we have now.
What I mean is that they are last buffer. Stern wouldn't go out of business until everybody else had. I really believe they are the only manufacturer who could withstand another recession (of the economy and the industry).
3 weeks later
Quoted from frolic:Bah, this is not the time to announce title 2. I know they want to share exciting news, but it couldn't be at a worse time in their company.
I feel as though you are mistaken. They've been through this before with refundgate, and I think they know how ridiculously easy it is to handle a pinball PR crisis. Announce some kind of believable "progress" update on the lebowski front, and then dangle a shiny new title/preorder on the next game, and boom, you've bought yourself some time and probably a whole bunch of pre-order cash on the next one.
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Quoted from Rarehero:Pre-order is dead, especially with Dutch. No one will give them money for a new game unless Lebowskis are flowing out again - even then, I don't think people would do it. Too much has happened since 2014.
Pre-order will never die. I except at least two out of three of AFMr, AP and Dutch to be soliciting pre-orders this weekend.
Quoted from LITZ:My game is #62 and it is part of the group of finished machines that are being held hostage. I filled out all the paperwork to have it air shipped to AK. It was sooo close to making it out of the Netherlands!
I have good news my man.
They will never give up.
Quoted from Rarehero:Yeah I think it's a great idea. Maybe all parties are human enough that a cause helping children would give everyone enough perspective to bury the hatchet and move forward.
Yeah it's a great idea. In reality a dispute over tens of thousands of dollars probably isn't going to be settled by both parties agreeing to just forget about it and give a bunch of money to charity.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Its a taxable write off for ARA so almost as valuable financially. Dutch doesn't pay into or loose money the stupid over achievers do and who benefits....children that NEED the money. The one caveat I would throw in is Dutch never runs a pinball business again.
I'm no expert on international tax law. I just don't see how ARA / Dutch can possibly write off tens of thousands of dollars in dispute, and then donate another shitload of money "to the children" and then everything will just work out in the books and everybody will be smiling and 50 Lebowskis will be on the way to their new owners. And this in socialist europe where businesses actually have to pay taxes.
If I buy you all rocket tickets back to planet earth/reality can I write that off as an act of charity and it'll all be a wash?
Quoted from PinBalt:Thanks for your input Levi. I do not 100% believe that it is a possibility am just trying to make suggestions that might lead to a positive outcome for those actually with a vested interest. I personally don't see BOP 3.0 working out and I don't want to wait 3-5 yrs for lawyers to figure it out. I don't know if you are in on a TBL. Are you? More than willing to hear some other ideas that could actually create a positive outcome.
I'm not in on Lebowski. I have friends who are.
I have no ideas that could actually create a positive outcome. So...good luck my man.
My gut feeling is that eventually this will shake out. It's unlikely 50 finished games are just gonna sit there and rot. But it might be a long time and they might end up asking you for more money. Clearly DutchPB has absolutely zero shame and getting you your game is not their top priority right now.
Now if you'll excuse me I have Bride of Pinbot 3.0 deposit to mail in...
Quoted from wcbrandes:Please tell me whats owing? This is something I don't know. I am under the assumption that a third party would negotiate whats really owing and what it takes to complete and get the games shipped. If Dutch is willing to sign they are never going to operate in this field again for obvious reasons, and ARA receives no cash, part cash, and the tax benefits which would be paid by all those who still need to get their machines then this could possibly speed up the process which you already say will eventually work its way out. In other words get Dutch Pinball the &%$#@%$# out of there. ARA receives most its money in an indirect way (I have used this method before) and they also receive great exposure for doing the right thing and donating to a worthy cause. The people who have to buck up like me, because of the idiots at Dutch pinball, can then choose to sue Dutch Pinball for the money we lost because of their lies and inability to do business and protect their clients while at least feeling good that most or some of the money went to charity. I have no doubt where the issue lies. This also means, and make no mistake about it, most of us over idiot achievers will have to pay far more than 1k, however better than waiting three years and having to pay anyway. I think worth a shot and I will continue on the process suing Dutch pinball. its going to have to happen one way or the other.
Well if anybody can broker this mega deal to save Lebowski and get some needy Dutch kids some new clogs, it's you. You have my full support!
Quoted from Rick432:Is it possible this is a currency exchange issue?
No.
And the Dutch don't use guilders any more.
Quoted from Pinbally_1968:Oh stop all these comments... dudes!
legal action, going to universal, each individual's opinion on how to run a proper business..getting mediators in?
Its time to look into the mirror, plain and simple, all dudes like me who pre-ordered did this (probably) in full
consciousness. The moment you paid, you were aware that it might have been a non-smart thing to do. (like me)
Now, there is nothing you can do. It is the nature of ''crowd funding''
When money is involved, even the coolest dudes act differently, that is my experience, I never felt I had any rights after my payment. it was ''on the line''
these DP dudes did and do whatever is possible to deliver what they had promised, Im sure.
So please sit back and try to ''relax'' as there is noting else left for all of you.
Going into a law thing makes you only look stupid. it is how it is at this moment and you did take the risk.
BTW, I got my TBL delivered, it plays well, fun but some small issues which i can address myself. now im waiting on decent code.
Please stop all the crap. You may get it one day maybe not, you knew that 3 yrs ago
You telling people to chill out about this is like hearing a eunuch tell somebody they shouldn't worry about being kicked in the balls.
I'm having the hardest time understanding why universal would care about any of this. One would assume they've already been paid.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Scrap the Bops and add the number of Labowskis that it takes to get enough margin to roll the line again. Also if anyone interested, now that there's hope, my spot is available.
Are people still trying to get full value for their "spot" or are there any bargains to be had to go with the risk that comes with it?
Are you will to sell your "spot" for under face? I might roll the dice at the right price!
6 months later
Quoted from colonel_caverne:what sane person would pay here a TBL 10k€?
Alien standard is around 7500€, the same for Houdini.
Stern pro is around 6500€, premium 8800€
JJP starts at 8800€
if the TBL price is not similar to Alien and Houdini, nobody will preorder it.
At this point, I seriously doubt the sanity of any person buying a game from anyone other than JJP of Stern.
Seriously. You are just asking for it.
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