I know I'm not a member please don't stab me. But wanted to give some input on licenses.

They're always X money down to get started. Then either a total set amount (say 100k) which you amortize across all units, or pay X amount per unit with a minimum unit expectation (basically enough to make it worth the studio's time). The cover versions of the songs would also cost about $10 per song/per game.

The thing that NEVER changes is the time limit. Usually 3 years max, and the timer (generally) starts when you sign, NOT when you start production.

Thus the license probably timed out. Also if DP didn't hit the minimum payment amount (by the end of the term) they could be on the hook for that as well. (and rumor is they WAY overpaid to begin with)

Cleaning out my old closest, found this.

What an innocent age that was (and a really cool party!)

IMG_20180628_134600 (resized).jpg

Sorry but there's no way it hasn't expired by now. Also proving ability to manufacture is required now which they've also failed at.

This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

I'm sure they do!

Most startups survive off ramen and hot dogs.

These guys threw presidential suite parties and crossed the Atlantic god knows how many times.

Do the math.

Philgate was awesome. We sold a LOT of AMHs that week.

I think Phil knew what was coming and tried to pull the rip cord.

Oh I agree DP made a top-notch game with TBL. So top notch they ran out of money.

I also agree with your idea about people bringing stuff to Spooky to build - look how well that's worked with TNA.

RE: contract manufacturing consider this: STERN of all companies bailed from the contract manufacture of MMr. If a pinball company said "fuck it" imagine how awful it must be for a "generic" CM?

Good luck!

wonderful_life (resized).jpg

I think DP ran out of money before the first 50 were even done. They probably told ARA "ship them and then more deposits will come in!" and ARA does, regrets it, and holds next batch hostage.

This explains why the cost to release next 40 isn't just the contracted cost, or the retail cost, but 4k ABOVE the retail cost. Think that's seed money to restart DP? Ha. It's probably to pay back what was owed on first batch.

This game is done. Not only is DP broke AF but the license probably expired years ago.

Some have asked "why didn't DP ask EAs to pay the difference years ago?"

ARA being made whole by unloading these at 12k each is your answer. "Yeah, Um, that 8500 game you bought? Yeah gonna need another 12k to get it shipped"

Nobody woukd have accepted that. Now consider the "new money" buyers who snapped these up. Yeah its still more than the original price but only 4k more not 12k more.

Remember it's not just EAs I heard they sold about 250 of these things. Maybe if Phil hadn't rage refunded all that money they would have gotten a little further but still nowhere near the finish line.

No.

Selling 40 TBL's at a 30% markup to new buyers (aka sold them twice) didn't settle the ARA debt?

Now they need to magically assemble 100 more TBL out of spare parts and once again SELL THEM TWICE just to get into the black? (aka back to zero)

OMG. This company is f'd beyond belief. No wonder Phil rage-quit and refund spammed people back in 2014.

So EA's should have had first crack at buying their own game twice? Makes sense on paper but if you're DP and scrambling to get out of debt you know it's easier to sell a game to a newbie for 12.5k than to expect an EA to pay a total outlay of 21k.

Think about how badly that would have gone over - "As thanks for being our original investors you have to pay way more to get a game than randos!"

Seems DP underestimated costs at a catastrophic level. If they have to sell 140 games twice to even have the money to fulfill original orders that's really, really bad. Like they were off by double bad. That wouldn't even be acceptable in government

51% ARA stake in DP = Barry and Japp insta-fired. I'm sure that's the biggest reason they didn't take the deal.

Also how on Earth did they go from just needing 1k more per game to having to sell games twice? That's a huuuuuge difference - maybe that's why ARA wanted the company? They'd recoup the debt by building even more TBL?

100 parts worth of games but no cabinets. Say 150-200k for that. Where does that money come from? Who builds the cabinets? Someplace in Europe? Gonna be a fortune to build. Outside the EU? Gonna be a fortune to ship and import.

Say by some miracle they get the cabs. Who builds the pins? Barry & Friends in a garage? They'd make 1 a week tops and have to take zero salary for 2 years - so basically be in a debtor's labor prison of their own making. Doubt that's even legal in the EU.

Their best bet would be to find a sugar daddy to front the cabs and ship what they have to American Pinball or somebody in the US for assembly. Most importantly they have to LET IT GO. This game is no longer a bright and shining future, it's an albatross around their neck.

We basically just discussed how meaningless "100 games worth of parts" is as far as making new machines go.

Love me or hate me, I still made the first successful boutique pin so I'm not a total dunce on these topics.

Ever hear of the Coolest Cooler? 2nd Biggest Kickstarter ever: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually

Whoops doesn't actually cost $185 more like $400 now with same features: https://coolest.com/collections/coolest-coolers/products/coolest-cooler

Same deal "sales of new units will fulfill original backers" - five years later some people still haven't gotten it.

All signs point to TBL being catastrophically mis-budgeted to the point where the only salvation is a rich pinball sugar daddy.

That absolutely happened it was called the Coolest Cooler.

16 weeks left this year plus 52 next year before license expires = 68 weeks.

68 weeks X 5 work days a week = 340 days to finish.

500/340 = two people must build 1.47 games per day!

It's just impossible, unless he's allocated some of the new money to extend the license past 2020.

Even then, they only sold a couple hundred in the first place. Is the market even there for 500 more especially consider the cost has gone up 50%?

How many complete game's worth of parts does Barry have? 25 or so?

That's all the more new TBL's that will ever be built.

NSL should include:

1) cash on hand
2) # of games we have COMPLETE parts for
3) # of new games we have to sell before we can start fulfilling original orders.
4) total # of unfulfilled EA orders
5) how on earth we are going to build 300-500 games in 15 months with only a few people.
6) how we plan to account for the much higher cost of parts when we no longer buy them in bulk
7) does the new profit margin include $ for re-licensing the game when we don't finish in time?
8 ) do we have a sugar daddy as it's our only hope?

It contains none of that because the true answer to any of those would reveal the project to be hopeless.

Instead the NSL reads like a scam:

"EA's can have first dibs at giving us more money and we'll turn these parts into TRUE EA EDITIONS! (fear of missing out) And you'll still get the TBL we owe you down the road, a 12.5k value you only paid 8k for! (greed scam)"

There is no down the road. You will never see that extra game. They will never sell enough, nor be able to build enough to make the original EA's whole.

If EAs get first dibs on the next 40 games and if TBL pin is worth 21k total outlay to them by all means, it's your money. I think it's feasible even a skeleton crew could get them done in 15 months.

Just assume you'll never see that 'back game'.

Yeah their whole "plan" hinges on 500 people wanting to pay 12.5k for a TBL. That's twice as many as they sold originally when they were the lords of all creation.

Some say Barry is doing right by the EAs by not giving up. I disagree. He could have taken the ARA deal but he didn't want to lose control. He could have taken deeproots's help but 100% guarantee they also would have cut him loose. In the end it seems him remaining involved is more important than making customers happy.

I don't know what your intentions are but the above is exactly what a shill (AKA con artist partner) would say.

You either:

1) don't realize how your logic sounds
2) are trying to give people confidence in a doomed endeavor
3) have fallen for Barry's con logic yourself

Just think people should be careful. The easiest person to scam is someone who's already been scammed.

If Barry shows new, completed games with today's newspaper laying on the glass then by all means fork over more money.

Since only a few more will get made they probably will continue to resell for 20k.

Nobody said Barry couldn't build games. The eyebrow raising part was promising to make 500 by end of 2020.

It's almost as if the plan for a single guy to build 7 games a week is complete insanity!

Good to see them making progress. Maybe they should have done it this way from the start.

Yeah! Here in America our new year is one day of being hung over then we get back to work.