(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

By Nilroc

4 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 11,069 posts
  • 611 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 hours ago by Toucanf16
  • Topic is favorited by 188 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (2 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (1 year ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#7323 1 year ago

I know I'm not a member please don't stab me. But wanted to give some input on licenses.

They're always X money down to get started. Then either a total set amount (say 100k) which you amortize across all units, or pay X amount per unit with a minimum unit expectation (basically enough to make it worth the studio's time). The cover versions of the songs would also cost about $10 per song/per game.

The thing that NEVER changes is the time limit. Usually 3 years max, and the timer (generally) starts when you sign, NOT when you start production.

Thus the license probably timed out. Also if DP didn't hit the minimum payment amount (by the end of the term) they could be on the hook for that as well. (and rumor is they WAY overpaid to begin with)

1 month later
#7835 1 year ago

Cleaning out my old closest, found this.

What an innocent age that was (and a really cool party!)

IMG_20180628_134600 (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
#7917 1 year ago
Quoted from Draegermeister:

I have no doubt that DP has the license to The Big Lebowski

Sorry but there's no way it hasn't expired by now. Also proving ability to manufacture is required now which they've also failed at.

This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

#7919 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

PETA hates you.

I'm sure they do!

#7992 1 year ago

Most startups survive off ramen and hot dogs.

These guys threw presidential suite parties and crossed the Atlantic god knows how many times.

Do the math.

#7995 1 year ago

Philgate was awesome. We sold a LOT of AMHs that week.

I think Phil knew what was coming and tried to pull the rip cord.

#7997 1 year ago

Oh I agree DP made a top-notch game with TBL. So top notch they ran out of money.

I also agree with your idea about people bringing stuff to Spooky to build - look how well that's worked with TNA.

RE: contract manufacturing consider this: STERN of all companies bailed from the contract manufacture of MMr. If a pinball company said "fuck it" imagine how awful it must be for a "generic" CM?

#8124 1 year ago

Good luck!

wonderful_life (resized).jpg
11 months later
#9229 3 months ago

I think DP ran out of money before the first 50 were even done. They probably told ARA "ship them and then more deposits will come in!" and ARA does, regrets it, and holds next batch hostage.

This explains why the cost to release next 40 isn't just the contracted cost, or the retail cost, but 4k ABOVE the retail cost. Think that's seed money to restart DP? Ha. It's probably to pay back what was owed on first batch.

This game is done. Not only is DP broke AF but the license probably expired years ago.

#9337 3 months ago

Some have asked "why didn't DP ask EAs to pay the difference years ago?"

ARA being made whole by unloading these at 12k each is your answer. "Yeah, Um, that 8500 game you bought? Yeah gonna need another 12k to get it shipped"

Nobody woukd have accepted that. Now consider the "new money" buyers who snapped these up. Yeah its still more than the original price but only 4k more not 12k more.

Remember it's not just EAs I heard they sold about 250 of these things. Maybe if Phil hadn't rage refunded all that money they would have gotten a little further but still nowhere near the finish line.

#9339 3 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ben, do you think DP/Barry will ever get this game back into production?


2 weeks later
#9629 73 days ago

Selling 40 TBL's at a 30% markup to new buyers (aka sold them twice) didn't settle the ARA debt?

Now they need to magically assemble 100 more TBL out of spare parts and once again SELL THEM TWICE just to get into the black? (aka back to zero)

OMG. This company is f'd beyond belief. No wonder Phil rage-quit and refund spammed people back in 2014.

#9723 71 days ago

So EA's should have had first crack at buying their own game twice? Makes sense on paper but if you're DP and scrambling to get out of debt you know it's easier to sell a game to a newbie for 12.5k than to expect an EA to pay a total outlay of 21k.

Think about how badly that would have gone over - "As thanks for being our original investors you have to pay way more to get a game than randos!"

Seems DP underestimated costs at a catastrophic level. If they have to sell 140 games twice to even have the money to fulfill original orders that's really, really bad. Like they were off by double bad. That wouldn't even be acceptable in government

#9736 71 days ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

From memory Barry & Jaap told us ARA wanted an extra 1000 Euro per game and 51% stake in DP.

51% ARA stake in DP = Barry and Japp insta-fired. I'm sure that's the biggest reason they didn't take the deal.

Also how on Earth did they go from just needing 1k more per game to having to sell games twice? That's a huuuuuge difference - maybe that's why ARA wanted the company? They'd recoup the debt by building even more TBL?

#9765 70 days ago

100 parts worth of games but no cabinets. Say 150-200k for that. Where does that money come from? Who builds the cabinets? Someplace in Europe? Gonna be a fortune to build. Outside the EU? Gonna be a fortune to ship and import.

Say by some miracle they get the cabs. Who builds the pins? Barry & Friends in a garage? They'd make 1 a week tops and have to take zero salary for 2 years - so basically be in a debtor's labor prison of their own making. Doubt that's even legal in the EU.

Their best bet would be to find a sugar daddy to front the cabs and ship what they have to American Pinball or somebody in the US for assembly. Most importantly they have to LET IT GO. This game is no longer a bright and shining future, it's an albatross around their neck.

#9906 67 days ago

We basically just discussed how meaningless "100 games worth of parts" is as far as making new machines go.

Love me or hate me, I still made the first successful boutique pin so I'm not a total dunce on these topics.

#9975 66 days ago

Ever hear of the Coolest Cooler? 2nd Biggest Kickstarter ever: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually

Whoops doesn't actually cost $185 more like $400 now with same features: https://coolest.com/collections/coolest-coolers/products/coolest-cooler

Same deal "sales of new units will fulfill original backers" - five years later some people still haven't gotten it.

All signs point to TBL being catastrophically mis-budgeted to the point where the only salvation is a rich pinball sugar daddy.

1 week later
#10179 56 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. It’s more like you order something from Kickstarter for one price and it shows up later on amazon for twice as much before you get your order..
Guess what, that happens too. See my earlier point about two different markets now. Anyone with your perspective is confusing them as the same market.

That absolutely happened it was called the Coolest Cooler.

2 weeks later
#10480 39 days ago

16 weeks left this year plus 52 next year before license expires = 68 weeks.

68 weeks X 5 work days a week = 340 days to finish.

500/340 = two people must build 1.47 games per day!

It's just impossible, unless he's allocated some of the new money to extend the license past 2020.

Even then, they only sold a couple hundred in the first place. Is the market even there for 500 more especially consider the cost has gone up 50%?

#10593 38 days ago

How many complete game's worth of parts does Barry have? 25 or so?

That's all the more new TBL's that will ever be built.

#10630 33 days ago

NSL should include:

1) cash on hand
2) # of games we have COMPLETE parts for
3) # of new games we have to sell before we can start fulfilling original orders.
4) total # of unfulfilled EA orders
5) how on earth we are going to build 300-500 games in 15 months with only a few people.
6) how we plan to account for the much higher cost of parts when we no longer buy them in bulk
7) does the new profit margin include $ for re-licensing the game when we don't finish in time?
8 ) do we have a sugar daddy as it's our only hope?

It contains none of that because the true answer to any of those would reveal the project to be hopeless.

Instead the NSL reads like a scam:

"EA's can have first dibs at giving us more money and we'll turn these parts into TRUE EA EDITIONS! (fear of missing out) And you'll still get the TBL we owe you down the road, a 12.5k value you only paid 8k for! (greed scam)"

There is no down the road. You will never see that extra game. They will never sell enough, nor be able to build enough to make the original EA's whole.

#10682 33 days ago

If EAs get first dibs on the next 40 games and if TBL pin is worth 21k total outlay to them by all means, it's your money. I think it's feasible even a skeleton crew could get them done in 15 months.

Just assume you'll never see that 'back game'.

#10745 31 days ago

Yeah their whole "plan" hinges on 500 people wanting to pay 12.5k for a TBL. That's twice as many as they sold originally when they were the lords of all creation.

Some say Barry is doing right by the EAs by not giving up. I disagree. He could have taken the ARA deal but he didn't want to lose control. He could have taken deeproots's help but 100% guarantee they also would have cut him loose. In the end it seems him remaining involved is more important than making customers happy.

1 week later
#10873 23 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

It may sound odd to some, but the higher price these games get flipped for the more In think I'm not going to lose so much if I buy a 2nd game for $12.5k and don't end up getting my original game... in this case I'd have effectively paid $21k for my TBL... So if I see them selling at about that price it gives me a comfortable feeling...

I don't know what your intentions are but the above is exactly what a shill (AKA con artist partner) would say.

You either:

1) don't realize how your logic sounds
2) are trying to give people confidence in a doomed endeavor
3) have fallen for Barry's con logic yourself

#10881 23 days ago

Just think people should be careful. The easiest person to scam is someone who's already been scammed.

If Barry shows new, completed games with today's newspaper laying on the glass then by all means fork over more money.

Since only a few more will get made they probably will continue to resell for 20k.

1 week later
#10945 10 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

So Barry is Design, Sales, Assembly, Support, HR, Accounting, Shipping/Receiving... and you guys think they will be assembled on a similar timeline as Spooky? Anything else you want to buy?

Nobody said Barry couldn't build games. The eyebrow raising part was promising to make 500 by end of 2020.

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