(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

By Nilroc

4 years ago

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  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by adamross
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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #2465 Tips on removing the upper playfield Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2474 Photo of the updated divertor Posted by sd_tom (2 years ago)

Post #2477 Photos of new tilt graphics side art for TBL Posted by jGraffix (2 years ago)

Post #2506 Factory visit update! Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #2926 DP's response to their issue with ARA and game manufacturing. Posted by JimB (2 years ago)

Post #2971 pinghetto contacts ARA for information regarding the delays Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #2973 pinghetto information regarding contacting ARA Posted by pinghetto (2 years ago)

Post #3056 ARA's email response about DP's claims. Posted by CrazyLevi (2 years ago)

Post #3483 Jaap from Dutch Pinball counters the ARA story. Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3491 ARA counters the Jaap counter to ARA's previous communication! Posted by Rarehero (2 years ago)

Post #3650 Report from a dinner with Barry of Dutch Pinball. Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #3951 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #4259 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Rensh (2 years ago)

Post #5004 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5229 DP update about an alternative manufacturer Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #5461 Details on June 19th DP Livestream Posted by Nikonokin (2 years ago)

Post #6420 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by KoenHeltzel (1 year ago)

Post #6684 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by Concretehardt (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#8261 1 year ago

I finally found a place in San Francisco that has the Big Lebowski (Number 9), and ended spending my afternoon playing it. No wonder this game is so sought after as it went straight to my top 5 of all time favorites. I don't know much about the business side of it with Dutch Pinball problems, but what an incredible game they've made, I hope it can get sorted out and mass production can start as I would definitely buy one.

#8264 1 year ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

How was it holding up? Everything functional? Any wear or broken parts?

It was fully functional, but I didn't test the bowling lane I didn't find how to launch the mode. The playfield didn't have any damage but the transparent glass on top of the bowling lane was very dirty, it made it hard to look under. I could totally take it home as is !

Quoted from Toucanf16:

What other pins are in your top 5 favorites list?

I think I have a fairly classic list, in no particular order :
Wizard of Oz
Star Trek TNG
Attack from Mars
Addam's family
And now The Big Lebovski who took the spot Dialed In used to have.

I haven't explored everything TBL has to offer, far from it but the music, the movies, Jesus, the rug, the upper playfield, the girls, alcohol, give me the money, everything on this machine screams genius work, play me more and endless laughter, it really is a one of its kind.

#8267 1 year ago
Quoted from Snoogans138:

Is that at Alamo Drafthouse? I’m headed to SF in December and I’m really hoping the one the pinside map says is there, is still there.

Yes it's that one. That map is awesome, there is no way I would have found that game otherwise

1 week later
#8269 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

I’m sure it has been already said so sorry to ask again but Is the code completed?

I don't know what the code is expected to be, but it looked fairly achieved as in every shot had an animation, was counting something and felt consistent in progressing in the game. It's really a fantastic game it would be awesome if a more serious manufacturer could take over and build more, I'd definitely buy one.

2 weeks later
#8345 1 year ago
Quoted from zucot:

I played this yesterday. The rug doesn’t register and it’s tearing away from the rolling mech. The flippers aren’t strong enough to reliably make the ramps. The upper right flipper doesn’t work at all.
I’d still be interested in this damn game if they ever got their act together. Too bad.

Bummer, I was there a couple weeks ago and all was working well. Some older pins there where in need of maintenance, I wonder how well they take care of them, it's worrying TBL is a beauty, they shouldn't let it die.

4 weeks later
#8381 1 year ago

That a perfect summary of the situation. DP clients can turn to DP for a claim, but ARA has no relation to DP's clients and would most likely sell their machines for money to cover their losses instead of delivering them for free to pre paid clients of DP

#8384 1 year ago

In any case the situation really sucks. I really love playing that game, and would kill to have one at home. Throwing coins in it just to hear "give me the fuckin' money" was already enough to throw coins in it !

2 months later
#8499 10 months ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Sure, a good thing. Carry on I say for the Lucky few
6 weeks max , judges verdict will be out, and then its no longer an assumption of what when or what.
Haters will hate, lovers will love .

So 6 weeks for now, there might be a hope that TBL production will resume ? I would be first in line to get one, we are lucky enough to have one on location here in San Francisco, TBL is a masterpiece in every possible way, the game, the theme, the give me the f**** money, the dude's head in the toilets, it's just endless, really never felt that excited about a game !

#8501 10 months ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Project is dead. They heave been out of money for years, Now they are being sued by their contract manufacturer for non payment. Case went to court 1 month ago. Even if they win they have no money to fulfill the 100 or so units that have already been paid for at 8500 each.

What if ARA gets all the rights back, the license deal, the stock and can actually resume production ? The machine works, the code is good, it's far more advanced than all the JPop stuff and totally ready for mass production. So the R&D costs can be kept to minimal and investment can be made towards selling units. 100 prepaid isn't that much compared to the current sales potential of this machine so it could be absorbed as a loss by ARA.

I don't know how it works in The Netherlands but in France for exemple a bankrupt business can be bought for 1€, debt can be negociated as long as jobs are kept and that a valid business plan is presented to the judges.

Anyways 6 weeks from now, is almost tomorrow, so I'll definitely keep an eye on that lawsuit and cross all that crosses.

#8503 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Absorb an 850,000 loss before starting? Don't think they would consider that business plan.

850.000 includes the profit margin, the real cost to absorb is the production cost since buyers expect a machine not a refund. It seems that some machines were boxed and ready to ship, something like 30 to 40 of them. Also from what I understand not all the 100 people paid a full price some made a partial deposit.

So that number could be much lower, maybe in the 400,000, which is realistic compared to the R&D costs attached to designing a new pinball from scratch.

#8505 10 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Seems like a loosing debate but I do not follow your logic. The money is gone so the 100 machines Paid and Owed will need to come out of someones pocket. There is no profit in an IOU.

I agree with you there is no debate there, the money for the 100 machines is gone, delivering these 100 will be a loss. All I am saying is that the loss won't be 850.000 but a smaller number.

#8507 10 months ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

The cost to produce at ARA was around 6500 each including license . Then you have to get them to the customers around the world and pay import taxes and shipping. After that there was never going to be a big profit on this game.

6500 for an 8500 public price ??? Even worse if 6500 is € and 8500 is $. No wonder that adventure ended up the way it did. There is no way to build a sustainable business with margins this thin.

#8518 10 months ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I’m sure they could figure that out before resorting to destruction.

TBL pinball has reached the sought after ultra rare grade, not sure Universal would want to revert that now that the legend is built.

But still crossing fingers !

1 week later
#8538 10 months ago

genex So nice of you to leave it to the crowd. I didnt expect to be able to play it one day, then I found out a TBL was 5 minutes away from my work. I dont know how much it makes but a fair portion of it happily comes from my pocket !

1 month later
#8575 8 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Good grief, another wannabe Pinside lawyer. Tell us where you got your law degree counselor. Was it from television or a bar stool?

I'm not a lawyer, but as a business owner in France, I had to deal with many lawsuits. On the few occasions where we got sent by court to mediation following a long justice instruction process, it was because our positions were not that far, so an agreement could be worked on, and a court decision would have damaged both of the parties more than a bad agreement. Also one can't disregard that the EA would be the first victims there.

So my hope is that this is why the court sent them to mediation, and that it can be resolved, I really love this game and would definitely buy one (at 10k not 25!)

1 month later
#8723 7 months ago

I had no opinion on Kaneda until now, as I didn't get into the drama surrounding his time here. But following that false rumor he spreaded, the hope it must have raised with the people waiting for their games, and how I day dreamt of having one in my game room, he is now officially on my shit list.

2 weeks later
#8739 6 months ago

Ok, they have 3 more days to sort things out, or my money will go to a WWCF

#8743 6 months ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

There was a lot of activity when people here were seriously considering suing. Now that everyone has backed off...………..

The legal action discussed here is between DP and ARA, so wether EA sue or not doesn’t matter much.

#8747 6 months ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot.
Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

The ARA - DP lawsuit is in The Netherlands, it's a parallel line.

#8753 6 months ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Seems like a fair price for your wishlist machine.

It’s a blackjack bet. You bet 8.500$ and get a 17.000$ machine or lose it all.

#8772 6 months ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Am To ugly to be Barry or Barry’s mom
Anyway, several people on here, like Robin or Burningman, can testify that I am a real person.
And I do fully understand your statement as i would feel the same. I have always stated I am not only an EA but also a friend of Barry and Jaap so everybody could take this into consideration when reading my info. No hiding here. And yes, I try to keep people updated as much as I can with indeed 1sided info. This is all I have to offer.

And keep doing it, it's very much appreciated. Any kind of insight around what is going on, even small pieces is good to take, as I always say, as long as it's not dead it's alive !

#8779 6 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

Call me insane, but I would still take TBL over Wonka and Black Knight.

Me too and by far ! I’ve put a lot of coins in TBL and it’s not just a great game to play, it’s also a hilarious one and the best theme integration I have ever seen.

It makes me regret even more that DP didn’t deliver after such an incredible design work.

1 month later
#8807 5 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Where were things at the time of the last update? DP is broke, and the only chance of them making more TBLs is if they win the lawsuit and then get the Chinese manufacturer to produce games for them on credit. We know the lawsuit hasn't resolved yet, so I doubt there's much for DP to report.

I think there are more options than that, since there are 40 machines sleeping in a warehouse. I hope (and doubt), that there is a chance for more to be produced, but this leaves a window for some EAs to receive what they paid for.

2 weeks later
#8852 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

So, let me make sure I am understanding this properly...
- Original purchaser paid full price, got nothing
- You're offering original purchaser $1000 for his/her slot
- If the games ever DO materialize, you get a $1000 Big Lebowski
- OP gets $1000 and cuts his losses
If that is what is going down, I might be persuaded to buy a slot myself. I am curious to know the details on how the slot changes hands though. What happens if the games ship and the OP decides to keep the slot after all, for example?

Nope, or I don’t think so. Some pre orders only required a 1000$ downpayment and that’s one of them.

#8881 4 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Brushing up on details — So right now the possible futures of the hostages are:
Lawsuit goes in favor of jap&co and games are released and delivered to EA’s (I’m assuming shipping would have to be arranged individually or something? Or were these headed to cointaker?)
Ara wins and can do whatever they want? Auction them, release to buyers with additional money collected, burn them..?
Is that the just of where it’s at right now? Lawsuit is still going on, yeah? Or no? Or no one knows?
Trying to understand the stakes of that $1000 gamble a bit better, sounds interesting. It’s a killer game, esp if you love the movie.

It depends on the number written on the gambling ticket you get. Word is 40 units are ready to ship, the rest is very virtual so is the money B&K would have to produce more.

#8884 4 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Per Jonathan Joosten (unigroove) in the EA private thread, the verdict does not appear to be accessible by the public. In the meantime, no word whatsoever from Dutch Pinball for 7 months now other than a supposed promise by Barry (via a private email) in May to send one "soon".

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?

I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

1 month later
#9688 78 days ago

"Private collector" who want to make 17.500$ profit in 2 weeks !

#9923 73 days ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

They are making more machines and have planned on making more for about 6 months while all this was being negotiated. I can't reveal my source. Believe me if you want. I believe my source.
They are not telling the buyers of these machines being released because, just like DP was, it's pure deceit to influence the overpriced market based on limited #'s and perception that no more machines will be produced.
Those that are excited to get in at $12.5 now better sell fast.. once the other 200 plus machines get rolling who knows where the price will be then. More machines out there also equals less spare parts if/when machines break, etc.

Are any of these new 200 machines planned to be delivered to the EAs or is their money lost forever.

I mean, F*** at some points when you cash in someone's money it comes with some responsibilities.

#9952 72 days ago

There might be a way to design a cheaper mech, from a far distance it looks like an STTNG cannon with a low power coil

#10093 67 days ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

Did you see the game is now essentially 100k.
ebay.com link » The Big Lebowski Pinball Machine
The person who put up this ad is an animal! What is the highest price ever sold for a pinball does anyone know?

Its quite cheap actually, for the same price you can get a set of pokemon cards !


#10123 66 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

flynnibus - I'll keep this short b/c I don't want to drag this out but I'll just assume you didn't mean to come off like a pompous ass.
Thanks but I don't need to be told I'm "free" to do anything. I went through the Alien thing first hand and purchased one of the first production games so I can tell you how that went down. Regarding TBL, I had the same inside info as others did to buy one so I know first hand how fast they went and how I intentionally didn't buy one even though I could have easily.
Carry on.

I think the question there is "Where you as an EA informed prior than the rest of us about that new deal to buy a TBL and given a bit of time to take or pass before the deal went public" ?

#10138 65 days ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I'm an EA and was not either. At all.
FWIW, I also take offense with those, like Kaneda, who contend that EA's had an equal opportunity to buy these. I know for a fact that some buyers were offered the opportunity to purchase by virtue of their prior (non-TBL) connections with CT only.

You should be offended for sure. The current epilogue to that whole shit show is incredibly disappointing, so I’m sure I dont get the third of how you must feel seeing these games going to someone else.

1 week later
#10355 52 days ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

The instructions would have to be damn good with full color pics.. talking something like a DILE manual quality here.

Didn't Barry write a complete assembly manual for ARA ? I remember reading something about that.

#10380 50 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

My friend, Gene in San Francisco has had his TBL on location for the past three years or so. He has a fantastic mechanic keeping the game alive and they have been passing along engineering fixes/suggestions to Dutch Pinball.

If that is the TBL that was at Alamo theater in SF then it’s has been pulled out 3 months ago. And the last time I played it, the rug mech was dead and the machine was quite beaten up.

I hope he puts it back on route somedays I did make Gene very rich with my piles of coins !

#10425 46 days ago
Quoted from RTR:

You can say a lot of things about this situation, but the Europeans have the holiday/vacation thing down a LOT better than us.
We have somehow been tricked into thinking this is a weakness of some sort and demanding fewer holidays and vacation.
Look at me chuckling at the Dutch having so much time off!! Suckers!

I moved from France to the Bay Area, and despite everything I thought arriving here, I've never seen people take that many days off as I have since I'm here !

#10427 46 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Coming from France where you have
mandated breaks
mandated max working hours per day
mandated max working hours per week (35)
mandated minimum annual leave (5 weeks!)
I think most will have a hard time appreciating your comment.
Here people just hope for overtime pay.. hope for paid vacation at all.. and most really have no limits on hours per week or over a longer period.

Mandated ?? That is simply not true. I'm sorry but you really need to learn more about the work regulations in France, because you are wrong about all the above.

#10430 46 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm not - you work more you can get overtime, but then you start hitting the consecutive limits as well, which must be compensated with overtime or extra days off. Annual leave is labor law, etc. Federal holidays are labor law. You can have collective bargining which changes the numbers around, but it can't reduce the benefits to the worker.
Recognize that most salaried workers here in the US don't even have a right to overtime at all.. let alone mandatory paid leave. Those are at the discretion of the employer except in government jobs and other exceptions that have been carved out.

Ask the nurses or the police in France if they get paid or compensated in any ways for their overtime or if they take their 5 weeks of paid vacation, you will be surprised.
As to the private sector these rules only apply to non executive positions and they are far from being enforced.

But I’m also very aware that the bay area employment market does not reflect the rest of USA. Tech jobs are a kind of their own with high salaries, unlimited paid time off, no clock and not much to be accountable for. I agree that the lower (or expendable) your position on the ladder the less rights you get since nothing is ruled by the government.

My commute here during the week is around an hour a day, on Friday it falls down to 20mn, the 3 days weekend is quite strictly observed, I have never seen that in France !

#10438 45 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

He also said that he had been contacted by several parties wanting to buy the company, but they all wanted to "cut the EAs loose", so he turned them down. I got the impression that he genuinely wants to get the EAs their games.

From a VERY well informed source I can guarantee you that this is NOT true. There was a party at the table that had an offer that included delivery to the EAs first at no or a limited (1 to 2k) cost.

#10460 45 days ago
Quoted from dts:

This sounds like a stretch. Who would make a financial decision to ship $1.75M in games for $140,000, before even making a profit?! Sounds like a terrible investment! I seriously doubt anyone that is rich enough to do so would be rich in the first place with business decisions like that!

It’s called (re)building a brand and if you aim for the long run its goes in the top 3 of the smartest investment move you can make.

#10613 42 days ago
Quoted from whitey:

Maybe I worded that wrong my bad,
If you invest money in anything that’s not guaranteed? Win lose or draw you have nobody to blame but yourself!
I know the truth sucks but come on man
Get over it

This was not an investment, it was a pre order...

#10667 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

please highlight where I'm going wrong in my thinking because you seemed to think that by offering the retail games to EAs is pushing EAs more to the back of the line... where is my logic failing??

Because in reality 500 games need to be built before taking care of the EAs and the odds for this to happen tend to grow thinner. The EAs are not a debt they are people who paid for their games.

#10671 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

So you think this explains why by not offering the games to EAs it will make EAs go closer to the front of the queue somehow?? Are we even talking about the same thing?? You should let pdxmonkey answer for himself by the way rather than interject with some smoke screen that totally deflects the point in hand... imho...

It goes back to my previous post here. There were some investors offers, with the proper funds, a capable team and the right infrastructure that planned on honoring the EAs games prior to selling new games.

Barry rejected them while saying his main priority is to honor his commitment to the EAs which now sound like total bs. And he failed once already with a ton of money, the parts, the suppliers, I still hope he succeeds but lets face it, the odds are lower than ever.

#10685 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

That may be so, but you were answering a question I asked someone else with an answer that doesn't answer the question...

Oh my bad, I thought this was a public thread...

#10712 38 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

It's ok... I also thought it was a public thread... pointing out that you answered a question addressed to someone else with an answer that didn't answer the question does not imply that this is not a public thread... does it? Very odd logic around here at times...

You come in with your reasoning of the 6th EA who is still 6th after 5 people, and you ask for logic... Interesting !

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