Quoted from rubberducks:

The contract manufacturer and supplier of boards and I think some of the wiring amongst other things.
DP don't have a production facility.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I got an Email from ARA this morning...followed by Dutch's. Either ARA is lyin or Dutch is. Either way, it doesn't matter, because FACT: Dutch lied about the PCB's. So, first thinks first:
FUCK YOU, DUTCH PINBALL!!!!!!!
Second...lets sort out the facts.
1. We know ARA has a ton of games sitting there, complete.
2. Dutch says ARA wants more money, won't pay it, threatening legal action.
3. Dutch says they're looking for a new manufacturer.
4. Would they get the finished games back from ARA, or will those be scrapped? Wouldn't it cost MORE to BUILD FROM SCRATCH vs. just fucking PAYING ARA to get this over with? They won't pay ARA 1000 more euros per game...but they'll pay someone else, probably more, to start over?
Point 4 is why this explanation seems fishy as fuck.

Quoted from jwilson:

That sounds great in principle, but in practice there are a ton of costs and issues involved with running a manufacturing facility that are better handled by someone who specializes in it. CMs will have better access to parts sources, volume discounts and expensive equipment that they can amortize across multiple clients versus you as a single entity could not afford.
Going the CM route was a smart play for Dutch, but it's unfortunate that they chose the wrong manufacturer to do it. I gather ARA is mostly making medical equipment and there are unique issues with pinball manufacture that perhaps they didn't understand or foresee.

Quoted from rubberducks:

Rather the opposite. Huge fixed costs are the primary drag on solvency. That they have none is their one trump card amidst all the delays and meanderings. Nearly sunk JJP and others are in dire trouble.
Assuming of course that DP pay on completion and ARA aren't holding large deposits for machines finished or under production in eskrow ...

Quoted from Rensh:

Being Dutch and a businessman myself must admit this remark does hurt me.
So you Americans have Trump as a president and this means all Americans are like him?? Guess what you are stating here is alternative news

Quoted from o-din:

It's sounding more and more like this whole project is getting the rug pulled out from underneath it.

Quoted from eggbert52:

Dude, I'm just merely pointing out you can't spell licensed correctly. Carry on.

Quoted from Rarehero:

There are two sides to every story. Here's the most recent ARA letter. They claim Dutch didn't pay for the shipped containers & ~40 are ready to ship as soon as they're paid.
Who's lying? Who knows. Either they'll work it out with each other or they'll work it out in the courts.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I got this email from Jaap this morning:
---------------------
ARA is not telling the truth. They don’t charge us the agreed price.
In May 2015 we agreed price A. In June 2016 ARA wanted much more money per TBL: A plus €1.000+. DP agreed with this price but only under the condition that ARA would deliver 300 TBLs plus 50 units of our 2nd title before the 31st of December 2016. A few months later (October 2016) we found out that ARA didn’t order parts for the production of the 50 units of our 2nd title. We confronted ARA with this and told them the deal of June is of because they don’t deliver in accordance with the clear condition (the delivery of 300 TBLs plus 50 units of our 2nd title before the 31st of December 2016).
ARA insists on charging us A plus €1.000+. They didn’t produce a single unit of our 2nd title.
For us this is unacceptable as you probably will understand. The agreed price is price A and not A plus €1.000+.
Please feel free to share this with the pinball community.
---------------------
So, they're sticking to their "ARA blew it" story. I just hope they had this conditional contract in writing.If we are to believe this...I think an interesting tidbit is the mention of the 2nd title. If they indeed finished designing a 2nd title and wanted it built by Dec. 2016, that means DP wasn't planning on being one-and-done, and that maybe gives me a bit more confidence that they'll work this all out...as they've got another game in the can that should have been ready to go.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I'll hold back speculation until the weekend, but this I can say either way:
Fuck Game#2.

Quoted from Rensh:

I am still here and following the topic(s). I have learned (the hard way) that when emotions are involved it is better to give it a few days rest and some good night sleep. Find Rarehero's f*ck here f*ck here very annoying and proof that it is better to calm down first.
What can I say what already not has been said?
Let's work with my common business sense.
I am not their bookkeeper so don't have a real insight on their financial issues just my own common sense of doing business every day. Big question for us all does DP still have money on the bank and if yes, how much?
For sure not enough to refund everybody (money is spent on parts, PR, prototype, living etc; the PR, prototypes and living was supposed to come from the TBLprofit I assume but when refunding there is no profit) so asking a 100% refund for everybody is a no go and sure way to bankruptcy. It's a three person company of which 2 are owners and 1 is programmer. Do you really think they can cough it up? Best case if you wanna go the refund route would be that they split the money what is left over the 150 achievers which didnt get a pin which will be which amount per achiever? Also dont know if thats even possible legally as what happens if ARA says suddenly they accept the original agreed price for the 90 pcs built but than the money is already divided and sent back to the achievers?
Their business-plan must have been based on ARA keeping the contract-promise and make and deliver TBL in 2015. So its like a business transaction salespeople do every day, you purchase something and sell it with a markup big enough to live from and continue your business. In ARA they thought to have found a reliable partner. Heck, when people asked me if I was not afraid doing a pre-order at a startup company like DP of just a few people I always minimized the risk pointing at the big ARA behind DP and now it is ARA is killing them
So now TBL is not generating the required profit, its even dead in the water dependable on legal action yes-no/other CM, they are switching to a backup plan like BOP3. Its either generating new income or eat in further on TBL money. Is this a good plan? Time will tell but for sure its sensitive with us achievers. For me a BOP3 is not appealing but thats just me. I also had never interest in the original BOP. I know that some people have put down a BOP3 deposit at TPF.
Also, if ARA was so sure about their financial rights, why haven't they opened a financial claim against DP? I think the oldest invoice must be sure like >6 months old. In my company invoices older than 3 months I sent to an insurance company which will chase the customer to get the money through a bailiff and force into bankruptcy if we cant work out a payment agreement. However, I have to give them the complete file showing my invoices are correct and corresponding with the contract/order..... They are not spending their time on a case where the customer can easily show the invoices dont correspond with the order. With that in the back of my mind I find it very interesting to see that ARA has not filed a financial claim against DP through a bailiff (at least not that I know of)....
I think that a plan with a mediator is perhaps the best option for now. Can be quicker and cheaper as lawyers. I dont know the business experience of Jonathan and it has to be an experienced, and most of all independent, person as perhaps Jonathan Joosten offers (although I know as boardmember of the Dutch Pinball Association Jonathan can ask and keep asking critical questions so thats a good point for him ) . Independent as coming from outside the pinball-world to avoid claims of subjectivity from ARA (Jonathan is also an achiever to my knowledge). But if all parties agree to Jonathan I wish him all the success in the world and thank him for his time&effort.
I do know however mediation has been tried already (DP told already that several negotiations took place in the newsletter, mediation was 1 of them) but the 3rd person was somebody from the holding above ARA. Objectivity was just not there as this mediator turned out just to follow ARA. So I dont call that a real mediation effort.Explains also my above sentence about having somebody really independent to ALL parties. Dont think that DP didnt try in all this time to work it out with ARA. So a lot of ideas are like, been there, done that.
I also cant get my mind around ARA. What is their goal? If DP ends in bankruptcy they end with like 40-50 already delivered TBLs unpaid plus 40 hostage-pins unpaid. Also its common CM practice that the CM orders the parts, assembles, delivers and than gets paid. I know that the PROCS's have been paid by DP (info from newsletter) but a lot of the parts have been pre-paid by ARA for sure. Now they make a lot of stuff internally so no need to produce 300 pcs but looking at for instance the playfields. They have all 300 been ordered for sure, you dont make playfields per pc as its expensive to setup a robot for making the playfields. So a lot of money is at stake for ARA to. I am guessing >500-600 KUSD easily. So, whats their strategy? Very puzzling. I am afraid it has become something personal for somebody at ARA (made perhaps a big f*ck up in calculation and now wants to point finger at DP trying to safe his job perhaps?) and emotions are bad if you wanna make the right business-decisions.
Look, I understand the anger and feel also something of it myself to. Writing all the above down is like a calming exercise for me. More info is required but if lawyers are (going to be?) involved its common business practice to keep still. So even if DP is willing to share more info they might not be allowed to.
Yes, I do have more inside info as most of you but at the end it all corresponds with the info already given by DP, just more details. Have not seen the contract, not talked with ARA and am not DP bookkeeper. I can only rely on the info told by Jaap & Barry to me (and I also was told the PCB-story). Above post is thus just my PERSONAL thinking.
Regards from a fellow Dutch (so NOT Danish) dude wishing everybody (including DP) the best.
We are the country which is second after Amerika ( see » YouTube video starting at 40 seconds )
Denmark was 3rd I think

Quoted from EternalLife:

Hey RTR, For me it's only a numbers game - the numbers are still leaning heavily in our favor that DP will come out on top and deliver all the games to the EA's. ARA's numbers are extremely bad as the CM for TBL so that's good for DP in a big way.

Quoted from EternalLife:

I'm just trying to accept the situation we are in today and find a way forward. I don't want any EA's to lose on TBL, even those I don't agree with.

Quoted from steigerpijp:

Just to clarify, in Dutch, the small print at the bottom states any information contained in this email is for the adressed only and not allowed to be publicly anounced or published.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

I had 2 questions that were not answered (or asked) in the interview:
1. What happened to the 1.5 million dollars +- that DP received from EA’s?
where’s the f#cking money DP?

Quoted from Rensh:

In regard to the 40K salary story. I checked this with a bookkeeper.
There is no minimum salary you have to take out the company but but but the government will tax you like you took out 44KEUR as a salary. So even if you take zero salary taxes will have to paid compliant with a 44K salary. So you might as well take it out as when you leave it in the company you have to company tax on it.
Reason for this taxdepartment wants to avoid people using their company as a saving account (company tax is lower as salary tax). I think an average salary in NL is approx 37K so 44K is not an outrageous salary if you take it out a company.

Quoted from JodyG:

Do you honestly believe with all your heart that DP is going to make enough games to make EA's whole? You can't possibly believe that one guy and a couple volunteers are going to build out 500 games by the end of 2020. Spooky has spent years now honing their process and getting their shit together and now can make 10 games a week. How long do you think DP is going to take to make even one game, let alone hundreds? If you do believe this, I think you are far too trusting of someone who has done nothing but lie and piss away other peoples money for years now. How much have you been told about DP's current financial situation and working capital? I have a hard time believing someone with a successful business like CT can look at this situation with that kind of rose colored glasses. If you don't actually believe DP can build these games, than my thoughts above are absolutely true. If DP goes tits up after building 50 games, how are you going to feel about being a part of selling off games that someone else already paid for? Most people will forget by then, but I won't.

Quoted from seenev:

Does anyone really believe this is a $12,500 game? Take away the scarcity and what's it worth?

Quoted from pinballslave:

Just for the record, I am not Barry.

Quoted from pinballslave:

I don't think the failures we saw previously were due to failing to publicise a schedule... I think the main problem was not having a water-tight contract with ARA, and the bad decision to try and start up again in China before ARA were out of the picture... not inefficient or un-transparent scheduling...