Q: WTF are these guys doing at shows when their order cue is already full?

A: CASHFLOW

I am directly attacking the pre-order model that has sopped over a million dollars out of the market over the past few years.

Delusion exemplified ^^^^^. Haven't you heard? JPOP and Kevin Kulek have thrown in the towel.

For all you know, it's an empty box...

So has anyone done the math on how much these delays are impacting the business plan? What is DP's cash churn rate? Do they even have an office outside a principal's residence? I sure hope they are still selling BOP2.0's. The idea of idling your entire business for 4 months at this key time in the product release should be very disturbing.

Your argument is flawed. ARA's "lie" is beneficial to all involved. ARA's "truth" (if it is true) of not being paid for completed production is a thousand times more significant to the issue.

Perhaps they mean that they have not started any new production, but finished the units that had started. This would be the expected behavior of a CM that was afraid of being stiffed. Unfinished goods are virtually worthless while finished goods can be liquidated to satisfy the bill should that be the final judgment of the dispute. Not only that, but a production line must be cleared out when new contract production demands the square feet. Do you think ARA will idle for 4 months while Jaap belligerently argues. This has already been addressed by others that have business experience with the Dutch.

You are using a 'gotcha' to bolster your emotional investment. I suspect what really happened is DP refused to pay for change orders once production was in process. This is really not uncommon at all in contract manufacturing.

It doesn't matter who is publicly most honest. What matters is how DP idled construction for over 4 months because a financial dispute. They take the blame from me for two reasons. First, they chose their counter-party and entered into an obviously non-succinct agreement. Second, it's extremely unlikely the dispute will work itself out by waiting longer.

Reading between the lines, this is clearly an engineering/manufacturing change order dispute having to do with the bad boards. If DP is trying to stick their CM with the costs of engineering errors and changes, this will not be resolved. Look for a 2 year delay while courts settle the dispute between DP and ARA.

In the meantime, we can expect DP to search for the Holy Grail of a CM who will do work for an under-capitalized company that has already spent the revenue that was generated by selling the yet-to-be-produced product - a CM that will start a program to be paid for in "love of the game". Good luck!

It's really simple to me. A financial dispute has arisen that DP is incapable of solving in the short term for certain. And the long term solution is only solved by first catching a Leprechaun.

This does not look good.

So does that get you your game more quickly? And further, why are you so sure that DP hasn't told more significant lies?

$40k by Christmas! It's too bad that there must be equal suffering and joy to maintain the galaxy's equilibrium. Congrats and condolences to all those affected. Pinside has become the new online high rollers' gambling casino.

Wow, you are really looking at this situation through a strong filter. My guess is there were change orders. I don't think the board situation was a total fabrication. I suspect that there were changes and delays that resulted in additional startup and shutdown expenses that needed to be amortized over the number of games ordered. Seriously, no CM wants to shutdown a contract.

If all of pinside would dispense with this "secret info" crap, there could be a whole new set of arguments that were rooted in opinion rather than "speculation-turned-fact" nonsense.

What do you expect DP to say? You all should have expected this after watching how well they handled the BOP2.0 rollout. DP is missing some rather key ingredients to becoming successful.

"Production is stopped because of a disagreement between us and the CM. We will continue to profess our justified outrage until the CM sees it our way. In fact, we have begun court proceedings to force them to see it our way and expect the production line to be humming along as early as tomorrow."

I don't think you understand the CM process. The customer pays for all costs related to parts and sub-assembly change orders, engineering problems, delays, vendor problems, etc. Usually this is paid up front. If not, it's amortized per unit. There is nothing surprising here other than the finger pointing.

The writing is on the wall, Boys. Condolences to those on the tail end of this ride. If anyone paid by amex, there may still be hope.

Note to self: when a vendor has my money and goes dark, expect the worst.

Are you suggesting there has been preferential transfers while the company was insolvent? That would suggest an involuntary BK proceeding initiated by DP's creditor pre-buyers.

Oh, wait, this is Denmark, not the US. What have the Danish attorneys suggested?

BOP3.0 is a non-starter. The market is so thin that the buyers for this machine are already waiting for resolution from other boutique failures. Pinball is hard, manufacturing is hard and finding solutions to business disagreements is hard. I think the pinball market has run out of 12 grand plus sycophants.

Binding arbitration can only happen if both parties agree to it. At this point, it doesn't seem likely.

The fat guy has a pedo tattoo on his hand. I remember it from the last #fakenews.

Yes. When we are property of the Crown it is important to sacrifice .5% of our productivity once a year for the vanity of the progeny of murderous hereditary dictators that bullied their way into a palace while the people starved.

Worship your master, slaves! I detest royalty and everything related to it. It is abhorrent to all who know freedom.

BTW, if you follow British royalty, you should recognize the fact that Wills goes to lots weddings without his family. The purpose of that attendance is to bang the bride right before the wedding. Between that behavior and their stool groomers, I detest all bullies who dare to don a crown.

Sorry to tell you guys that May 4 will just be another big disappointment. If these guys were serious about negotiation, it would have happened already. Now we're told that the negotiations to have a negotiation has been completed. How long did that take?

edit double post

"We had a meeting to plan a meeting to plan a meeting that will be used to discuss our differences. After those 3 meetings, we will have a meeting to determine who will pay for things. At the time of this 4th meeting, we will sadly have to report that no one is willing to pay." Sorry guys.

And the only thing that's taking time at this point is the delaying of the lawsuits.

Everyone makes a big deal out of programming. It's really just taking a little input, manipulating it a little and giving a little output. NBD. It's just that programmers want to look like they are important and doing something hard.

What would DJT do?

This whole program is completely hosed. Obviously, there needs to be better decision making at the executive lever of DP. Y'all better hope DP is willing to punt ownership of their whole program to bail themselves out. Talk about a 'reset'...

Royalty is repugnant. Hereditary dictators are an anathema to the Liberty bestowed by God on any free man in a constitutional republic.

This is bullshit. What more is required than a yes or no? More of the same. Some people never learn.

My sole purpose in this thread is to call bullshit on any of the enablers that would help any of you lose your monies. I'm sorry some of you are so invested that you see my help as a threat. I'm really not angry. I'm disappointed. I'm having a deja vous with the other threads. This stage of mourning your financial loss is denial tending toward bargaining. Once you guys hit anger, I won't have anything more to say.

I don't fit in with losers. Thread drained.