(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

5 years ago



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  • 11,381 posts
  • 620 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by Lamberger
  • Topic is favorited by 197 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 11381 posts in this topic. You are on page 96 of 228.
#4751 2 years ago

I must say that I'm pleased with DP's proactive communication over the past month or so. Strong and noticeable improvement over the past.

They just need to make sure the trend continues moving forward.

#4753 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon ... with nail polish.

Fucking amateurs.

#4754 2 years ago

Camel Toe?

#4755 2 years ago

Gotta like me some camel toe! What pins have some camel toe on them? Baywatch comes to mind!

#4756 2 years ago

78' Playboy toe....

#4757 2 years ago

I've decided to jump off this rollercoaster. It's been a hell of a ride and it definetly didn't feel good to ask Melissa for a refund (which shall arrive in a matter of days). There's one spot left now if anybody want to jump in. Would have loved to have a TBL in my mancave but have to get out of the kitchen as I simply don't like the heat and the way the cook is trying to make the dinner. Good luck everybody nevertheless

#4758 2 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

There's one spot left now if anybody want to jump in.

What was your order number?

#4759 2 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

I've decided to jump off this rollercoaster. It's been a hell of a ride and it definetly didn't feel good to ask Melissa for a refund (which shall arrive in a matter of days). There's one spot left now if anybody want to jump in. Would have loved to have a TBL in my mancave but have to get out of the kitchen as I simply don't like the heat and the way the cook is trying to make the dinner. Good luck everybody nevertheless

What was your purchase price - $8.5k?

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#4760 2 years ago

What will arrive first - our Lebowskis or Turturo's new Jesus movie?

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#4761 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

What was your purchase price - $8.5k?

No it was way higher as I've ordered at a later stage. It was nearly a grand more.

With Alien arriving on Tuesday I'm getting my dream theme machine for my man cave

#4762 2 years ago
Quoted from lamihh:

No it was way higher as I've ordered at a later stage. It was nearly a grand more.
With Alien arriving on Tuesday I'm getting my dream theme machine for my man cave

You were either an early achiever at 8500, Or a preorder guy with possible refund rights at 10,000, When did you order and what did you pay? I know at one point Melissa was willing to buy out early achievers at cost (8500) to resell at current cost (10k) but last I heard they no longer wanted to do so (made me want to jump ship!) Early achievers cannot get refunds, Only later folks that did not pay in full, Only had a deposit down that DP never got ahold of.

#4763 2 years ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

You were either an early achiever at 8500, Or a preorder guy with possible refund rights at 10,000, When did you order and what did you pay? I know at one point Melissa was willing to buy out early achievers at cost (8500) to resell at current cost (10k) but last I heard they no longer wanted to do so (made me want to jump ship!) Early achievers cannot get refunds, Only later folks that did not pay in full, Only had a deposit down that DP never got ahold of.

Yes I was a Type 2 guy. Ordered in 2016 and just had to make a deposit (1k). I can fully understand COINTAKER not being willing to buy out early achievers as - I'm sure nobody doubts that no matter if we want to accept this shitty situation or not - this would be very risky for them. DP is in serious trouble and they don't deny that. I really hope they are gonna make it but my life is exciting enough so no extra drama for me please

#4764 2 years ago

Coasters for the Seattle Beerfest

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#4765 2 years ago

So its been another week since the last "update". Wonder if this is going to become a scheduled weekly update (doubtful). I think they should also be explaining in one of these updates about the departure of their sole software engineer and what that means to the completion of the code...doesn't seem like this is an issue that has anything to do with ARA and as such I think its fair to expect some transparency on it.

#4766 2 years ago

Ya I agree completely . Had sent an email to Barry and Jaap a couple of weeks ago asking about the departure of Koen.
No response so far.

#4767 2 years ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

Ya I agree completely . Had sent an email to Barry and Jaap a couple of weeks ago asking about the departure of Koen.
No response so far.

Did he actually announce he left DP, or just that he took a position with another company?

#4768 2 years ago

According to LinkIn he has left.

#4769 2 years ago

Yes he left. Told me to speak to Barry for further details (I asked how DP was supposed to move on without him).

I reckon Scott might be able to step up, once he finishes TnA

#4770 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

Yes he left. Told me to speak to Barry for further details (I asked how DP was supposed to move on without him).
I reckon Scott might be able to step up, once he finishes TnA

I cannot imagine that Scott would do that.

He is no longer affiliated with DP.

#4771 2 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

I cannot imagine that Scott would do that.
He is no longer affiliated with DP.

He isn't? Everything is falling apart...

#4772 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

He isn't? Everything is falling apart...

His involvement was contract work early on --it was long before any drama and his lack of involvement now should NOT be seen as additional drama

#4773 2 years ago

New update from DP today....

In this week’s update of Dutch Pinball and the production of The Big Lebowski™ Pinball we want to share a condition from NiVoGe. When they invest in this project and let ARA start up the production process they demand 51% of the shares of Dutch Pinball. We are discussing what are the pro’s and con’s with our consultant and as soon as we know if this is acceptable or not, we will let you know.

We will send out another update next week

#4774 2 years ago

Wasn't the 51% ownership one of the original sticky points that was stated back in March. I get the feeling that this has come back full circle? I hope not.

I actually think DP should realize that a vested ARA manufacturer is their best option. I just don't see them redoing this with anyone else. Trying to stay positive

#4775 2 years ago

Ok, so they are officially out of funds?
Damn.

#4776 2 years ago
Quoted from fishbone:

Ok, so they are officially out of funds?
Damn.

of course they are- otherwise machines would be moving.

#4777 2 years ago

DP - 49% of Something is >>>> 100% of currently Nothing. DP you need a dedicated manufacturer and getting TBL back on is the way to Reestablish credibility in the pinball community. If Niovoge will Invest then that must be the trade off for their 51%. Do it!

#4778 2 years ago

So 51% is controlling interest, no more dp as you know it.

Old owners become share holders only.

The contract manufacturer becomes the new DP and can do what they like.

Ara probably planned the delays and costs to begin with

#4779 2 years ago

Don't hear much about the price increase and lawsuits anymore... Isn't that why the hostage games didn't ship...?

#4780 2 years ago

DP are out of business, ARA know it and quite rightly want to ensure that the money they use to build supply chain is going to generate the right return. DP need to choose to do this, or it will be bankruptcy...

Neil.

#4781 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

DP are out of business, ARA know it and quite rightly want to ensure that the money they use to build supply chain is going to generate the right return. DP need to choose to do this, or it will be bankruptcy...
Neil.

It's either that, or they need to find another investor willing to buy in for less than 51%

#4782 2 years ago

News coming in another month or three. Look for it.

#4783 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

It's either that, or they need to find another investor willing to buy in for less than 51%

And why would an investor do that and take the risk of not have a controlling interest?

#4784 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

So 51% is controlling interest, no more dp as you know it.
Old owners become share holders only.
The contract manufacturer becomes the new DP and can do what they like.
Ara probably planned the delays and costs to begin with

Probably not as crazy as it sounds.
Its a hostile take over.

#4785 2 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

And why would an investor do that and take the risk of not have a controlling interest?

Who knows the motivation of an imaginary investor? I was just saying they need to find someone with cash who is willing to take a smaller percentage if they don't want to give ARA their 51%. Maybe they can find some rich widow that needs a tax break, or some dude that has more money than he knows what to do with and who really likes pinball. Stranger things have happened, and all it would take is for someone to convince an investor they will make money even at a smaller ownership percentage. I am sure there are millions of bad financial decisions made every day.......

#4786 2 years ago

Not sure what this company would do with 51% of a company that has made one product, in an extreme niche market, reputation is in the mud. Wonder if there is any long game at all with the 51% or is this basically how to lose less money on the game and the forget about it... I.e., recoup the overruns by getting larger share of what was any profit magin. I would bet though with their 51% vote they would want to make way more than 300 tbls.

#4787 2 years ago

Serious question: there were rumors of "good news coming soon" --is this that good news?? I hope there's something else.

10
#4788 2 years ago

I don't know all the details but percentage wise, it's not a bad deal, DP needs to take it. It's really their only hope. They need someone to take a lot of the operational aspects off their hands. They can focus on sales, creative aspects, and future projects knowing that they are backed financially and operationally. If they had done this long ago we would all have our TBLs and our Pulp Fictions by now.

Gary Stern has the same kind of deal (although he probably owns a lot less than 49%) and he seems to do ok.

#4789 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

I don't know all the details but percentage wise, it's not a bad deal, DP needs to take it. It's really their only hope. They need someone to take a lot of the operational aspects off their hands. They can focus on sales, creative aspects, and future projects knowing that they are backed financially and operationally. If they had done this long ago we would all have our TBLs and our Pulp Fictions by now.
Gary Stern has the same kind of deal (although he probably owns a lot less than 49%) and he seems to do ok.

That is a dangerous proposition. The decision makers then would basically be concentrating on profitability with really no responsibility or presence in the pinball market. They could stagnate the code, cut corners to make a cheaper product, etc. Of course the opposite could be true as well....they could make things much better, but my guess is you will get less for your dollar. It is a huge risk to give away 51% of anything as you are then basically along for the ride. Now if you can get two or three additional smaller investors and split up the stock so no one has a blind majority...then your risk would be easier to take.

#4790 2 years ago
Quoted from RTR:

Gary Stern has the same kind of deal (although he probably owns a lot less than 49%) and he seems to do ok.

How much did Jack have to "sell" to his investor stay afloat. Sounds like a similar path.

I'd speculate it's a Debt for equity swap. Dutch can't pay. All they've got to sell is goodwill.

Unless there is another angel investor floating around, sounds like the only way Dutch can possibly survive.

#4791 2 years ago

It is prob the best/only move. If they were flush with cash, it is unlikely they would be in this position. Which means a bunch of other avenues (like a different CM) at likely to be closed off as well.

And that's different than saying out of cash.. I will give them benefit of doubt that they have the amount of $ required to pay for these games based on a transfer of goods price (BOM plus labor) agreed X years ago. The problem is, there's needs to be some additional margin to 'fix problem's with.

#4792 2 years ago

DP is in no position to refuse this deal. They owe it to the early Achievers to take this deal and deliver all the TBLS that have been ordered. Just get this project finished and move on !

#4793 2 years ago

What would DJT do?

This whole program is completely hosed. Obviously, there needs to be better decision making at the executive lever of DP. Y'all better hope DP is willing to punt ownership of their whole program to bail themselves out. Talk about a 'reset'...

#4794 2 years ago

Yeah seems like they are more likely to make it to game #2 (not counting bop3.0) with this deal than without.

I think we do have to give them credit for turning the corner on transparency. Us arm chair quarterbacking business decisions which effect themselves more than us (i.e., livelihood vs us and our toy money) is certainly something they could prob do without but they threw Pinside the bone anyway.

#4795 2 years ago

Giving up 51% is giving up control, Jaap and Barry would not longer be calling the shots, and be basically employees. They would only accept this as a last resort. But at least they have that as an option vs just folding.

The plus side is that ARA appeared to be making design and engineering decisions that would make manufacturing easier, but potentially service/support harder and more expensive, they would now be more likely to balance the two. That would ultimately be a good thing for owners.

On the negative side, they may find this is not a business they want to be in, since they would be approaching it as a risk/reward/return on investment vs a passion/lifestyle business, which could lead to them folding the business, at which point Barry and Jaap are left with 49% of nothing.

I've been with start-up companies from the start, and once the original team loses controlling interest, things started to change in ways that is often contrary to the desires and vision of those who started it. Typically many of those folks, despite still having an ownership stake (although significantly diluted), leave the business, either by choice or are forced out. The last start-up I was with, after the third funding round, the VC's had controlling interest, and all of the senior leadership, except the CEO were gone within in a year or so. In many ways he was the face of the company, like Jack and Gary are, so there was a greater desire, on both sides, to have him stick around, but despite the title his control/direction of the company is certainly not the same.

Would love to see them get funding elsewhere, but at least this gives some sense of hope they can survive.

#4796 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

G
On the negative side, they may find this is not a business they want to be in, since they would be approaching it as a risk/reward/return on investment vs a passion/lifestyle business, which could lead to them folding the business, at which point Barry and Jaap are left with 49% of nothing.

In that case, after selling X Big Lebowski (no limit), maybe they could buy the shares back.

51% is a tough pill, but doesn't sound like there's many options. Maybe they could add a buyback option clause, at 20% premium they could buy back all or some % of the shares within X years.

#4797 2 years ago

Jack is a minority owner in JJP now. There could be a deal here. Sometimes you have to check your ego and pride if it means all the customers will be taken care of.

#4798 2 years ago

I am sure that DP does not like the demand of 51% but DP is really not much of anything anymore. They need to get over the bitter pill and swallow it if it allows them to be involved in Pinball design and production. If they cancel the deal with ARA over this then they need a clear and viable option2 for owners or they will face a whole bunch of other issues. No BOP2 LE option! Again, 100% of a concept gets them nowhere.

I really hope Jaap and Barry realize this and do not shoot themselves in the foot.

#4799 2 years ago

Why not just take the deal, get TBL shipping, earn their percentage. If they don't like how it's going, what's to prevent them from quitting and starting Holland Pinball on their own? OK, likely some anti-competitive clauses will be in there, but where there's will there's a way...

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