(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

27 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 11361 posts in this topic. You are on page 75 of 228.
#3701 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

You've got 20 games to play and you're sitting around worrying about the code for one of them? Not being patient NEVER pays off. Just hang tight and let the chips fall where they will. Trust me, the value of your game is only going to go up. And those that say it won't, want one, don't own one, and are hoping to get one. Just remember that.
Now go play some pinball.

Well I know some people will take that attitude but again I like playing them, I don't buy them for value or trophy pieces, right now that is all TBL is, a trophy with a lot of drama around it. I enjoy pinball for a relaxing getaway, not drama...... I guess we'll see

-13
#3702 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Well I know some people will take that attitude but again I like playing them, I don't buy them for value or trophy pieces, right now that is all TBL is, a trophy with a lot of drama around it. I enjoy pinball for a relaxing getaway, not drama...... I guess we'll see

How do I put this nicely.....if you were fortunate enough to get your game already....how should I say this....um.....SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Send it to me if you're sick of it already. My game is being held hostage. Wanna trade places!?

-3
#3703 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Well I know some people will take that attitude but again I like playing them, I don't buy them for value or trophy pieces, right now that is all TBL is, a trophy with a lot of drama around it. I enjoy pinball for a relaxing getaway, not drama...... I guess we'll see

To be honest bro, I just found out that my friend has tonsil cancer today and Steve Charland would give anything just to be able to play pinball one more day with his friends and family. Please, appreciate what you do have, which is a LOT and enjoy the weekend.

#3704 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How do I put this nicely.....if you were fortunate enough to get your game already....how should I say this....um.....SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Send it to me if you're sick of it already. My game is being held hostage. Wanna trade places!?

As you said when the big lie about circuit boards was revealed; "FUCK DUTCH PINBALL"!!!!

11
#3705 2 years ago

Hey whatever guys I knew I would get some "boo hoo" comments but little over the top, it's a forum I posted a feeling about it all, I'm entitled just as much as everyone. Lets not be stupid and compare it to cancer and other life problems, I got enough real shit in my life too. I'm not comparing pinball to people dying nor did my comment put it on that level, so don't put it there acting like I did, that's just childish and immature. But appreciate all the not thought out comments above. This is part of the not fun aspect of it all that I talked about, turns people into worse people just talking about situations like these.

-5
#3706 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'm entitled just as much as everyone.

I think everyone is in agreement that you are definitely entitled.

#3707 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

I think everyone is in agreement that you are definitely entitled.

You're just the clever one aren't you, well luckily I was handed everything also and didn't have to work for it I'm sure. But you know all about me I'm sure so why do I need to tell you. Sorry I have bothered your day, move on.

#3708 2 years ago

Owner literally sympathizes with non-owners. Gets eaten alive. Welcome to Pinside .

'
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Getting back to normal programming....
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At the show and after, it will be unfortunate to watch the redundant logic circle of hell that DP has brought upon themselves. People want to hear what is going on. But DP lies. But people want to hear what is going on. But DP lies. No credibility and a terrible track record.

#3709 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

What could DP possibly be talking about at the show, other than the TBL fiasco? And if that's all they have to talk about, why not do it through email?? Surely they aren't trying to sell the game to new customers(until everything is straightened out)

Is DP still going to be at TPF as of right now for sure, maybe I missed something? Or is the assumption they will be and no one is 100% sure yet?

#3710 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

What could DP possibly be talking about at the show, other than the TBL fiasco? And if that's all they have to talk about, why not do it through email?? Surely they aren't trying to sell the game to new customers(until everything is straightened out)

It's indeed completely silly. I would think any *serious* company that is sitting on a load of customers money would promptly send an email to *each* customer telling them what they can about the holdup, possible scenarios and outcomes, etc.

And if they are not professional enough to do this they could at least put up a message here in this helpful forum.

Making customers wait and hope for an announcement on some arbitrary "show day" is bizarre and seems amateur night (to me anyways).

Nice product too... hate to see people's faith shaken in the company but radio silence tends to do that.

#3711 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How do I put this nicely.....if you were fortunate enough to get your game already....how should I say this....um.....SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Send it to me if you're sick of it already. My game is being held hostage. Wanna trade places!?

I get where you're coming from Rarehero, but keep in mind that Bemmett had (or still has?) trouble with his unit. Not all is peachy with those who actually have their game. He is one of the few that has been providing feedback and insight so that the rest of us benefit if/when we do get our games. I certainly appreciate it and I'm sure you do too. It was also first come, first served on preorders. You can't take any hostility out on him, just like I can't be mad at you for being ahead of me.

There's also nothing wrong with expressing frustration or doubt. I'd rather get a straight opinion vs. smoke up my pipe.

#3712 2 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

I think everyone is in agreement that you are definitely entitled.

LMFAO. At least he's not constantly bragging about money.

#3713 2 years ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

LMFAO. At least he's not constantly bragging about money.

Khabbi drops the Mic ...

IMG_1419 (resized).JPG

13
#3714 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

I get where you're coming from Rarehero, but keep in mind that Bemmett had (or still has?) trouble with his unit.

I get the frustration, I have been there along the way with everyone else through all the initial DP stuff, I would be frustrated beyond belief not having my game still, I'm not stupid I really do get it. Spending hard earned money on toys is a luxury in life for us all but we all have the right to be upset when it is taken from us still, we are all here cause we enjoy pinball(or used to). Me commenting on it probably hit sore spots for people but there is no easy way to communicate the message. I was commenting with the possibility I might consider selling my game, I think that speaks volumes to how I'm not having fun owning it either with no clear path in site for the future of it all either. I'm not here to fight with people I got enough drama in my real life to even want to care about some keyboard warriors, I just tried to relay a message in a forum...go figure.

To the other point, yes I have been trying to help and productively get things better with the game along with talking with Barry earlier on and encouraging better communication which he constantly agreed to(obviously that didn't work too well). I had some issues with some promised replacement parts coming for a few issues before all the news struck, was even on the phone with Barry and others to diagnose them and then it has been radio silence for like 6 weeks now with no parts and no further communication despite multiple attempts by me. I have heard some people say code was still being worked on despite all the negative news, so maybe that is a good sign that better days are coming and DP does believe that. I am in same boat with everyone, just want communication and the truth.

Here's to hoping for better news for everyone involved in the near future.

#3715 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I get the frustration, I have been there along the way with everyone else through all the initial DP stuff, I would be frustrated beyond belief not having my game still, I'm not stupid I really do get it. Spending hard earned money on toys is a luxury in life for us all but we all have the right to be upset when it is taken from us still, we are all here cause we enjoy pinball(or used to). Me commenting on it probably hit sore spots for people but there is no easy way to communicate the message. I was commenting with the possibility I might consider selling my game, I think that speaks volumes to how I'm not having fun owning it either with no clear path in site for the future of it all either. I'm not here to fight with people I got enough drama in my real life to even want to care about some keyboard warriors, I just tried to relay a message in a forum...go figure.
To the other point, yes I have been trying to help and productively get things better with the game along with talking with Barry earlier on and encouraging better communication which he constantly agreed to(obviously that didn't work too well). I had some issues with some promised replacement parts coming for a few issues before all the news struck, was even on the phone with Barry and others to diagnose them and then it has been radio silence for like 6 weeks now with no parts and no further communication despite multiple attempts by me. I have heard some people say code was still being worked on despite all the negative news, so maybe that is a good sign that better days are coming and DP does believe that. I am in same boat with everyone, just want communication and the truth.
Here's to hoping for better news for everyone involved in the near future.

You were an early achiever who actually has a time investment in this pin, and your comments are from the entire experience you have gone though.. not just snagging a game a month ago and putting it up for sale for $17K with the hopes of making money from it. I value your comments more than some on here for sure.

#3716 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Is DP still going to be at TPF as of right now for sure, maybe I missed something? Or is the assumption they will be and no one is 100% sure yet?

That's just what has been said in this thread. Good luck with the software. Just because you have a game does not mean you have to stfu as some have stated. You paid for a complete game, everyone who paid deserves a complete game.

You have also handled the vitriol spewed at you with class. That's Rare...

#3717 2 years ago

I don't understand the early achievers that aren't more upset with DP. You didn't give $8500 to ARA or Cointaker, you gave that money to DP 3+? years ago and they have become very deceptive and/or silent. The people that have their games aren't receiving good support. The people that don't have their games aren't getting proper information. Even if DP is at zero fault--that seems doubtful by their behavior--they still owe you EAs an explanation. Why in the hell do you have to go to TPF or come here to see what is said? They say "there isn't any information to give". That reads "there isn't any information we want you to hear" to me. I have a feeling that you will probably glean more useful information from reading some key posts in this thread than you will from listening to Jaap's "update". I hope nobody has their hopes up too much or they should be prepared to be let down; though you should be used to that by now. I'm so sorry that so many of you are going through this.

12
#3718 2 years ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

I don't understand the early achievers that aren't more upset with DP.

I'm absolutely upset. But what am I supposed to do? I don't want to give myself ulcers over it. Suggestions about how to properly be upset?

#3719 2 years ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

I don't understand the early achievers that aren't more upset with DP.

You are correct sir, you do not understand...#106.

#3720 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm absolutely upset. But what am I supposed to do? I don't want to give myself ulcers over it. Suggestions about how to properly be upset?

Quoted from Superchicken:

You are correct sir, you do not understand...#106.

I apologize for the way my post comes across now that I read it again. I didn't intend to criticize or blame the EAs. I am pissed at DP and I just had a preorder which has now been canceled. I guess I meant to say that I can't imagine how upset I'd be if I were one of you. I really hope there is a satisfactory resolution to this whole mess for you guys.

#3721 2 years ago
Quoted from TRAMD:

I apologize for the way my post comes across now that I read it again. I didn't intend to criticize or blame the EAs.

I didn't see anything wrong with your comment. In fact, I completely agree. I get annoyed when people post "chill out -- it's only pinball." We've been chilling for quite some time.

I will become vicious if DP doesn't communicate directly with its customers before next Saturday's seminar at TPF.

Let me put it in Dutch so that there's no confusion:
Ik zal vicieuze worden als DP niet rechtstreeks met haar klanten communiceert voordat volgende week zaterdag bij TPF.

#3722 2 years ago

Hey, companies have vendor problems all of time. Heighway is trying to move as much of the production process in-house as possible to avoid supply chain issues in the UK. DP has zero in house manufacturing and the associated overhead. Both of those configurations have potential problems. DP is at the mercy of its vendors and Heighway must deal with startup costs and cash flow (just like JJP almost didn't) to launch a new company. ARA obviously under bid and didn't understand the requirements. DP is in charge of the big bag of money and it appears they are using that leverage to manage ARA's non-performance. I'm also guessing the now missing revenue from selling games is impacting expenditures for programing. New updates have been missing. Perhaps, DP isn't asking the programmer to work for free (like JPOP did) until the cash flow starts going in the other direction.

#3723 2 years ago

And yes, posting in a public forum is always a good practice when there is pending legal action.

#3724 2 years ago

So when is the seminar?

#3725 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

And yes, posting in a public forum is always a good practice when there is pending legal action.

They could at least post that "there is pending legal action". Frankly, one doesn't even know if that is true. Zero communication = bad.

#3726 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

I will become vicious if DP doesn't communicate directly with its customers before next Saturday's seminar at TPF.

If you want direct communication, pickup the phone and call Jaap. Any email sent from DP must be considered public communication as it ends up here in a matter of minutes.

#3727 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

...ARA obviously under bid and didn't understand the requirements. DP is in charge of the big bag of money and it appears they are using that leverage to manage ARA's non-performance. I'm also guessing the now missing revenue from selling games is impacting expenditures for programing. New updates have been missing. Perhaps, DP isn't asking the programmer to work for free (like JPOP did) until the cash flow starts going in the other direction.

Wow, you are really looking at this situation through a strong filter. My guess is there were change orders. I don't think the board situation was a total fabrication. I suspect that there were changes and delays that resulted in additional startup and shutdown expenses that needed to be amortized over the number of games ordered. Seriously, no CM wants to shutdown a contract.

#3728 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

They could at least post that "there is pending legal action". Frankly, one doesn't even know if that is true. Zero communication = bad.

Well if there is no legal action that would be great. But the same rules apply if you are trying to settle a dispute. No need to poison the negotiations here.

#3729 2 years ago

If all of pinside would dispense with this "secret info" crap, there could be a whole new set of arguments that were rooted in opinion rather than "speculation-turned-fact" nonsense.

What do you expect DP to say? You all should have expected this after watching how well they handled the BOP2.0 rollout. DP is missing some rather key ingredients to becoming successful.

"Production is stopped because of a disagreement between us and the CM. We will continue to profess our justified outrage until the CM sees it our way. In fact, we have begun court proceedings to force them to see it our way and expect the production line to be humming along as early as tomorrow."

#3730 2 years ago

If it is true that ARA wanted 1,000 euros more per game, that was a huge miscalculation by ARA. I believe production cost of a pin is around $3,000. If ARA now wants $4,000 per game, they were off by 30%.

#3731 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

If it is true that ARA wanted 1,000 euros more per game, that was a huge miscalculation by ARA. I believe production cost of a pin is around $3,000. If ARA now wants $4,000 per game, they were off by 30%.

I don't think you understand the CM process. The customer pays for all costs related to parts and sub-assembly change orders, engineering problems, delays, vendor problems, etc. Usually this is paid up front. If not, it's amortized per unit. There is nothing surprising here other than the finger pointing.

#3732 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

If you want direct communication, pickup the phone and call Jaap. Any email sent from DP must be considered public communication as it ends up here in a matter of minutes.

How about Jaap call every one of us?

#3733 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How about Jaap call every one of us?

shit, phone call? id be happy if he just responded to an email every now and again

#3734 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

How about Jaap call every one of us?

I haven't asked or sent him my phone number. You?

#3735 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

If it is true that ARA wanted 1,000 euros more per game, that was a huge miscalculation by ARA. I believe production cost of a pin is around $3,000. If ARA now wants $4,000 per game, they were off by 30%.

You have no idea the cost of making a pinball like this. Try doubling that. That's why there is not much left to negotiate on a price increase.

#3736 2 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

You have no idea the cost of making a pinball like this. Try doubling that. That's why there is not much left to negotiate on a price increase.

I know in the past, when Stern gives away games as a prize in a tournament the winner can receive a pro version game or $2,900 cash. Maybe for DP it is $4K or $5K that is still off by 20%.

#3737 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

Well if there is no legal action that would be great. But the same rules apply if you are trying to settle a dispute. No need to poison the negotiations here.

LOL. Then DP should communicate to all members that they are negotiating. And at this point there should be a basic qualitative reference to progress or schedule. There has been nothing. It's been months now since this issue started too. Again, no communication at this point = bad.

#3738 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

LOL. Then DP should communicate to all members that they are negotiating. And at this point there should be a basic qualitative reference to progress or schedule. There has been nothing. It's been months now since this issue started too. Again, no communication at this point = bad.

Maybe it's all not direct communication:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/59#post-3601977
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/69#post-3609884
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/70#post-3623497
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/73#post-3644027

#3739 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

Maybe it's all not direct communication

LOL. It isn't. Been months since direct update to buyers now waiting for a pin for years. Years.

Stop moving the goalposts.

#3740 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

LOL. It isn't. Been months since direct update to buyers now waiting for years. Years.
Stop moving the goalposts.

#106. You?

#3741 2 years ago

My sympathies. Just contributing to the forum discussion, which forums are for, regardless of being an owner or not. Not all interests have to be directly vested to care about these things and the buyers.

#3742 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

If you want direct communication, pickup the phone and call Jaap.

Right. Because we should kiss DP's ass to get a status update on our $8500 investment. Makes perfect sense!

#3743 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Right. Because we should kiss DP's ass to get a status update on our $8500 investment. Makes perfect sense!

If I felt that talking to Jaap would change anything I would have been on the phone a long time ago. I want DP to fix this and I believe DP wants the same.

#3744 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

If I felt that talking to Jaap would change anything I would have been on the phone a long time ago. I want DP to fix this and I believe DP wants the same.

What's DP's phone #?
Standing by...

#3745 2 years ago

phone (resized).JPG

#3746 2 years ago
Quoted from highdef:

Right. Because we should kiss DP's ass to get a status update on our $8500 investment. Makes perfect sense!

It wasn't an investment. It was a purchase. Give us the product we paid for, or a refund. Simple.

#3747 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It wasn't an investment. It was a purchase. Give us the product we paid for, or a refund. Simple.

I agree. I shouldn't be calling it an investment.

#3748 2 years ago

Last night's dreamonition...
DP sorted out the TBL mess and sends out an email this week to EA's.
#TBL shipping resumes.
Jaap announces BJ@TPF.
Who's in?

#3749 2 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

I know in the past, when Stern gives away games as a prize in a tournament the winner can receive a pro version game or $2,900 cash. Maybe for DP it is $4K or $5K that is still off by 20%.

If you think the cost of a TBL is anywhere near a Stern (S)LE, let alone a Stern Pro, you're nuts. Try more than double the former (SLE).

Still not sure how people expect full disclosure and constant updates when they're in dispute with the CM, legal action is likely pending, and they appear to be in advanced negotiations with another CM. Why would they jeopardise the latter and weaken their position in the former by posting here?

The situation sucks, but beating your head against a wall when you know there's no way there will be significant updates until they're ready to say something is stupid.

#3750 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

If you think the cost of a TBL is anywhere near a Stern (S)LE, let alone a Stern Pro, you're nuts. Try double the former (SLE).

$6,000? And then ARA wants $1000 on top? That math would never work. Shipping plus CT's cut plus IP. DP stands to make $500 a game or $150K! Out of that minus art, programing, admin, office rent, lawyers. DP would be a nonprofit pinhead hobby.

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